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Thread: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Thread; the place to hype androgynous Swedish 17-year old prospects

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    Hossa
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    2012 NHL Entry Draft Thread; the place to hype androgynous Swedish 17-year old prospects

    So, we are approximately seven weeks from the draft, which is June 22-23 in Tittiesburgh.

    We have the 15th pick, which is the best you can hope for if you're going to make the playoffs. And I think in this draft it's actually not a bad spot to be, considering most agree this is a wide open draft. I would say Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, Murray and Forsberg are all certain to be gone by the time we pick, almost definitely top ten, but I'm not sure anybody else can be ruled out.

    While teams all say they are going BPA in the draft, Murray seems to be fairly predictable. Last year he admitted that they targeted scoring forwards, which they clearly did, and I think stockpiling defence prospects was the stated strategy before that. This year, I think the need is defence, and I think we can reasonably predict that unless a pretty little Swedish forward strikes their fancy, that's a very likely bet. It helps that this draft is deep in blueliners, and other than maybe Radek Faksa, there aren't many non-Swedish forwards in that range anyways.

    The blueliners:

    Matt Dumba - Most likely gone ahead of us, particularly with strong U18s. Compared to Subban and Phaneuf, and the downside of that comparison (ie. being a high-functioning retard) is why he could slide.

    Morgan Rielly - Maybe the most talented blueliner in the draft, has been compared to Karlsson actually, but missed most of the year with a knee injury. I doubt he slides, but there are so many blueliners it's possible.

    Cody Ceci - Has been projected everywhere from just outside the top five, to the early 20s. As "local" as it gets - Ottawa born, 67s developed. I'm a fan and would be ecstatic to select him at 15, and would even support trading up.

    Jacob Trouba - Seems to be a bit lost in the shuffle; complete package type of blueliner who like Ceci maybe doesn't excite with a single dominant trait. Did not look out of place at the WJC, IMO.

    Griffin Reinhart - Probable the guy on this list I think is most guaranteed to go ahead of us, is similar to Trouba with a broad skill set. Bloodlines help - the Reinharts are the new Staals.

    Derrick Pouliot - Listed anywhere from just outside the top ten to late in the first. A very poised, skilled puck-mover who maybe isn't quite as dynamic as Rielly or Dumba, but is more controlled and healthy.

    Olli Maatta - Another player who is a bit all over the map. Profiles similar to Ryan Murray, just not quite as good or advanced.

    Matthew Finn - During the middle of the season, looked poised to make a move into the top ten, but then his stock seemed to drop back. Not that tall but solidly built, another well-rounded type.

    Slater Koekoek - Another injury case, lots of offensive talent and good size, but very raw. A team could reach on him early, but he could also drop out of the first round entirely.

    The Swedes:

    Sebastian Collberg - Has been compared to Jeff Skinner, and once or twice Alfie as well. Undersized and plays with a hilarious short stick, but was outstanding at the WJCs. Great shot and knows how to score. Seems to be dropping because his SEL team didn't play him.

    Pontus Aberg - Much more productive in the SEL than Collberg, another player whose stock is a bit all over. Have seen him top ten, or out of the first round. I've never seen him personally and don't have much to even draw on for bullshit purposes.

    Hampus Lindholm and Ludvig Bystrom - Two Swedish blueliners who are hanging around the 20s in many draft lists, but every year a Swedish blueliner goes higher than expected. Lindholm in particular seems to be rising late.

  2. #2
    Germz
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    Thanks Hossa.

    I have no clue with any of these guys, but if this Ceci character is as good as you say, I'm sold. Otherwise, I'm always good with Swedes.

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    Hossa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Germz View Post
    Thanks Hossa.

    I have no clue with any of these guys, but if this Ceci character is as good as you say, I'm sold. Otherwise, I'm always good with Swedes.
    Ceci's the only player I can say I know well as a player - the rest is based on limited viewings or more likely secondary sources. I do know that some Sens broads have seen other players more regularly.

    But I am high on Ceci in general, and I don't think that's just a matter of exposure. The difference between him and a player like Tyler Cuma, who was the last 67s defenceman to go in the first round, is significant. Ceci is, IMO, exactly the kind of d-man who would compliment Karlsson and Cowen going forward.

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    ben.
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    Ceci really seems to be a player that has entered a few team's top 3-5 while others curiously have him ranked way lower. In many ways, he seems like this year's draft ranking Jeff Skinner. Having seen him play through the 67's put me on board as well for ecstatic to draft him at 15. Big defensemen with a big shot who can log big minutes and has solidified his defensive game considerably over the year. I would also support moving up, but I fear that we are missing the assets to do so at this time with no 2nd round pick until 2014.

    After that, I am personally very interested in Koekkoek. He is a classic draft year injury faller, but the upside is just too high to ignore (perhaps highest amongst defensemen in the draft). Really have to like his size and offensive flair combined with amazing skating and good defensive game. I would entirely trust the Murray's in taking a gamble on this guy as they have previously shown their capacity to scout injury fallers well enough in the previous year to truly assess their potential (Cowen, Wierchioch and Stone)

    Honorable mention to Olli Maata who I nevertheless hold some reserve towards as he seems to be the classic extremely polished young Swede defensemen phenom who's lower upside might however me eclipse by his current stellar play.

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    Egil
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    I'm not as convinced as you are Hossa that we will draft a defenseman. We may use it as the tiebreaker or a few bonus points in choosing who to pick, but if the BPA is a forward by quite a bit, I expect us to pick a forward.

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    freakin
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    I'd be happier icing the Swedish Olympic team than doing something stupid and played out like drafting Canadians.

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    Hossa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egil View Post
    I'm not as convinced as you are Hossa that we will draft a defenseman. We may use it as the tiebreaker or a few bonus points in choosing who to pick, but if the BPA is a forward by quite a bit, I expect us to pick a forward.
    Just to clarify, I think teams always go based on their list (at least those that take a professional approach to the draft - it wasn't always the case), and I'm not suggesting we will draft a d-man who is lower on our list than a forward just because of position. What I meant was two things:

    1) This draft is overloaded by d-men. Any any given point between 5 and 15, there is a better chance the BPA is a d-man than forward. I think that's just the way this draft has shaped up, bizarre as it is.

    2) Murray has shown a willingness in the past to jump up in the draft to take a player that they are particularly high on AND fits their needs. I think part of being aggressive is trying to combine needs and BPA, and that fits Murray to a tee.

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    Pancakes
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    GET ALL THE 17 YEAR OLDS !!!
    R.I.P DALLAS STARS FORUM I HARDLY KNEW YE

  9. #9
    Hossa
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben. View Post
    Ceci really seems to be a player that has entered a few team's top 3-5 while others curiously have him ranked way lower. In many ways, he seems like this year's draft ranking Jeff Skinner. Having seen him play through the 67's put me on board as well for ecstatic to draft him at 15. Big defensemen with a big shot who can log big minutes and has solidified his defensive game considerably over the year. I would also support moving up, but I fear that we are missing the assets to do so at this time with no 2nd round pick until 2014.

    After that, I am personally very interested in Koekkoek. He is a classic draft year injury faller, but the upside is just too high to ignore (perhaps highest amongst defensemen in the draft). Really have to like his size and offensive flair combined with amazing skating and good defensive game. I would entirely trust the Murray's in taking a gamble on this guy as they have previously shown their capacity to scout injury fallers well enough in the previous year to truly assess their potential (Cowen, Wierchioch and Stone)

    Honorable mention to Olli Maata who I nevertheless hold some reserve towards as he seems to be the classic extremely polished young Swede defensemen phenom who's lower upside might however me eclipse by his current stellar play.
    I see where you are coming from on the Ceci and Skinner comparison - both are guys who didn't necessarily scream top 10 pick, but just kept producing and eventually won people over. I also think Ceci could surprise and make the NHL next year. I compared him to Justin Faulk in the past, and I think they could overachieve in a similar way.

    There's definitely a chance Ceci goes high, and I wouldn't be shocked if he was the second blueliner taken after Murray. I think he's a lot like Ryan Suter in his draft year (with Dumba being the Phaneuf). Maybe Ceci doesn't excite people, but he's extremely effective, and I have been extremely impressed with his development. I think his hockey sense is really underrated, and he can be a very solid player in his own zone, but he'll do it with positioning rather than aggressiveness or physicality. He's also probably not a dynamic offensive guy going forward, but he makes a good first pass and can shoot.

    My concern is that Ceci draws a ton of confidence from carrying the puck. That to me was the difference this year - he really carried the puck a lot and controlled the play, and that's why he was not just an offensive guy, but really central to the 67s' entire game plan. Karlsson is like that, but Ceci doesn't have the hands or feet to be a big-time puck-carrier in the NHL. So how will his offensive game adapt, that's the question.

    I saw Koekoek a couple of times last year; not at all this season. Definitely an intriguing package, but I'm not as sold. He looked lost in his own zone, and is still incredibly raw. I have a hard time getting on board with him at 15. Personally, Pouliot is my preference among those NOT projected as possible top ten picks.

    As for Maatta, buddy's Finnish, but still solid. A bit of Brodin there, it's true.

  10. #10
    sensens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egil View Post
    I'm not as convinced as you are Hossa that we will draft a defenseman. We may use it as the tiebreaker or a few bonus points in choosing who to pick, but if the BPA is a forward by quite a bit, I expect us to pick a forward.
    I don't know that it's necessarily a function of going against the BPA mentality, but this is a strong draft for defencemen, just like last year was a strong draft for forwards. Factoring in the fact that the forward prospects are so overloaded and they also traded Rundblad, it would surprise me greatly if it wasn't a defenceman they went after in the 1st round. The only thing I could see them pursuing otherwise would be a centre with at least 2nd line potential, or if they're just shit-hot for a guy like Sebastian Collberg.

    The general consensus seems to be that Murray, Dumba, Reinhart, Trouba, and Rielly are the least likely to be available at the #15 spot - and I suspect that Ceci will likely be in that group as well. It leaves Pouliot and Koekkoek as the most probable options to my mind, but they may be hot for one of the Swedes - with Pouliot being my personal preference, if only because I think his offensive ability makes him a strong 2nd-pairing candidate down the road. If they were able to trade up, Griffin Reinhart is the player I'm maybe the highest on, but I don't know how likely it is they will be that active at the draft - and if they are, it may be to try to add another late 1st round pick to get additional high-end prospect depth on the blueline.

    Regardless, here's a set of scouting reports for many of the defencemen projected to go in the 1st round... where they project Ottawa to take Brendan Gaunce, just to spite my earlier point.

    2. Murray http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/ryan-murray/12605/
    6. Dumba http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...w-dumba/17507/
    7. Trouba http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/jacob-trouba/17127/
    8. Reinhart http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...inhardt/17128/
    9. Rielly http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...-rielly/17140/
    10. Ceci http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/cody-ceci/17136/
    17. Pouliot http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...pouliot/17508/
    18. Koekkoek http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...oekkoek/17138/
    21. Maatta http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/olli-maatta/17129/
    22. Finn http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/matt-finn/17665/
    23. Schmaltz http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...chmaltz/17505/
    24. Bystrom http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...%C3%B6m/17966/
    25. Skjei http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/brady-skjei/17151/
    27. Lindholm http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...indholm/18008/

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    I won't have an opinion on who the Senators should draft until the day after the draft when Don Brennan tells us who it should have been.

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    No more fucking swedes. kthankbye.

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    In terms of Swedes and defensemen, I sincerely hope they simply draft BPA in the first round.
    Reason is, and ought only to be, the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.

  14. #14
    SidorkiewiczsPeter
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    Does Magnus Ver Magnusson have a kid who plays hockey? That guy could pull a fucking semi-truck.

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    mayoradamwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by SidorkiewiczsPeter View Post
    Does Magnus Ver Magnusson have a kid who plays hockey? That guy could pull a fucking semi-truck.
    Until he pulls it via meat hooks in his back, I will remain in favour of drafting Canadians.


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    ^ Must be a Kingston lad right there.

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    ben.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa View Post
    There's definitely a chance Ceci goes high, and I wouldn't be shocked if he was the second blueliner taken after Murray. I think he's a lot like Ryan Suter in his draft year (with Dumba being the Phaneuf). Maybe Ceci doesn't excite people, but he's extremely effective, and I have been extremely impressed with his development. I think his hockey sense is really underrated, and he can be a very solid player in his own zone, but he'll do it with positioning rather than aggressiveness or physicality. He's also probably not a dynamic offensive guy going forward, but he makes a good first pass and can shoot.

    My concern is that Ceci draws a ton of confidence from carrying the puck. That to me was the difference this year - he really carried the puck a lot and controlled the play, and that's why he was not just an offensive guy, but really central to the 67s' entire game plan. Karlsson is like that, but Ceci doesn't have the hands or feet to be a big-time puck-carrier in the NHL. So how will his offensive game adapt, that's the question.

    I saw Koekoek a couple of times last year; not at all this season. Definitely an intriguing package, but I'm not as sold. He looked lost in his own zone, and is still incredibly raw. I have a hard time getting on board with him at 15. Personally, Pouliot is my preference among those NOT projected as possible top ten picks.

    As for Maatta, buddy's Finnish, but still solid. A bit of Brodin there, it's true.
    The thing for me with Koekkoek, and in respect to your argument about Ceci, is that he has the footspeed and hands to carry up the puck, while he also has a will to engage physically in the defensive zone as well. It is an alluring package that potentially could end up as a homerun if he does develop to his full potential. I agree that he does look lost at time in the defensive zones, but from my small sampling, it is nothing that a healthy amount of coaching and seasoning could not take out of his game. Furthermore, I think that he has the ability to take a little bit more chances pinching and make plays in the offensive zone, more so than other players, due to his speed and reach. If he does get beat, he can burry his head down and come back on the backcheck to break up plays.

    Overall, I know that I am in the easy position of being a laptop GM and get excited about high-risk/high-potential prospects. I was very high on Puempel last year for that reason and in the end I am thoroughly pleased the Senators picked Noesen first who seems to be quietly developing into a Brown/Booth player.

    Also interesting to see that McKeens are really really high on Ceci and not so much on Koekkoek. Definitely raises some good points.

    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2012...uide-guru.html

    BO - In similar fashion, the vote seems to be split on who the top defenseman available from the OHL is. Some say Ceci. Some say Maatta. Some even say Finn or Koekkoek. Again, who do you favour?

    DB - I would say that Ceci and Maatta are in the only two defenseman in this discussion. I have wrestled with this one as well having seen each player more than a dozen times each however my nod goes to Maatta for a multitude of reasons. Maatta will be able to play a more complete two-way game at the NHL level. Once he learns to let the play come to him in the defensive zone through coaching he will be very serviceable as he can also make a solid first pass. Maatta has great range and considering how well he has adapted to North America in his first season, (Ceci has already played three OHL seasons) and how much Coach Hunter leans and trusts him in all situations he is my choice. Maatta showed great mental resolve as well to come back from his concussions after the WJC and finish strongly in the months of February/March and is currently enjoying a long playoff run.

    BO - What about Koekkoek though? Obviously there's intrigue about his potential, but his enigmatic play/combined with the season ending injury seems to have him slowly falling on most lists. Is he still a first rounder in your opinion?

    DB - I thought Koekkoek came into the season with a tad too much hype however one can not argue the impact he had on the Petes. Had he been healthy, they would have made the playoffs as he was playing upwards of 35 minutes a game. If you look at the stats only two defenseman scored more points than him however he played 25-35 less games than his counterparts. Koekkoek needs to work on his defensive game but he has size, skating ability and can handle the puck, which should make him a first round selection.
    Also my bad concerning Määttä. Had just woken up and was thinking of Larsson and Hedman who came out early as extremely polished players that are now having a hard time surpassing their junior level of greatness (was nice to see Larsson have a great game 2)

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    Pancakes
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    little ot, but found out today my buddy is ranked 14th in the qmjhl draft. good kid.
    R.I.P DALLAS STARS FORUM I HARDLY KNEW YE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
    little ot, but found out today my buddy is ranked 14th in the qmjhl draft. good kid.
    Honestly, we don't really care.

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    freakin
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    I've given serious thought into typing walls of text from now on. I can't promise most/all of it won't be gibberish though.

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