Trayvon Martin

bloop bloop blah
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Post #301 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:00 am

Banana wrote:I meant the legal context of murder trials, stand your ground/self defense laws you doofus.

The gun laws for me are part of the "rest" of the issue and really not my concerng when discussing this trial. I would also add that the gun laws in the US are a byproduct of the social fuckedupidness. Meanwhile, the general self defense rules are not.

Doofus.


the social context and laws are intertwined in this case; personally I care more about the broader aspects than this specific case. I do admire you for saying that the law isn't part of the legal aspect. Fancy lawyerin' degree at work.

Also, :mkbét:
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Post #302 by jester » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:03 am

dempsey_k wrote:Does anybody know why Marissa Alexander CAN'T apply for SYG?


She did apply, but they denied her because she went back into the house from the garage (because it was locked and she couldn't get out) before firing the shot. She was doubly fucked because they were pissed that she discharged the weapon near children, too. This is mind boggling since I've read about SYG being applied when people shoot people running away from them.

EDIT: As a disclaimer, we're well aware at this point that SYG does not appear to be a law that black people are supposed to use.
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Post #303 by AD » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:04 am

mayoradamwest wrote:the social context and laws are intertwined in this case; personally I care more about the broader aspects than this specific case. I do admire you for saying that the law isn't part of the legal aspect. Fancy lawyerin' degree at work.

Also, :mkbét:


Laws are part of the social fabric. Oh wow.. a breakthrough right threre. Did you come up with that gem all by yourself? Lets give this man a PhD in sociology!!





When discussing the legal regime applicable to a court case, its the laws that are directly applicable that are under scrutiny. Everything else is just "the rest". For fucks sake.. the leave no child behind act or whatever other stupid education law in the US may have left Zimmerman behind for all we know and that may have ultimately affected him in a way that got him to that situation. Should we scrutinize that legal nugget too or can we summarize all the rest and call them "fucked up social factors"?
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Post #304 by Craig » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:47 am

Banana wrote:Even the legal situation surrounding the situation isn't that abnormal. Whats fucked up is the social context, not the legal one.

Thinking blacks are automatically thugs. Allowing a dude to walk around with a gun for no reason. Allowing a dude with a criminal record to have a gun. Etc.

The legal context is not that dissimilar to any other civilized place. Or at least not different enough to have me say that the verdict would be different in Saskatoon or Vancouver or Saint-Jérôme.

In fact, I applaud the liberal nature of the legal regime that allows people with no mens rhea to be acquitted from the charge of murder. And I would condemn any legal regime that has rules that lead to innocent minds being banished for life because of the circumstance surrounding the act. Y'all just a bunch of fascists (except Dr. C, Sturm, Dot and I)


Banana wrote:Laws are part of the social fabric. Oh wow.. a breakthrough right threre. Did you come up with that gem all by yourself? Lets give this man a PhD in sociology!!





When discussing the legal regime applicable to a court case, its the laws that are directly applicable that are under scrutiny. Everything else is just "the rest". For fucks sake.. the leave no child behind act or whatever other stupid education law in the US may have left Zimmerman behind for all we know and that may have ultimately affected him in a way that got him to that situation. Should we scrutinize that legal nugget too or can we summarize all the rest and call them "fucked up social factors"?


You do realize that the whole dispute with Chimera was over the stuff in "the rest" right? I don't think any of us really think Zimms deserved a guilty conviction, we just what he did was wrong and sympathize with the kid who got shot for walking home near an asshole
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Post #305 by AD » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:54 am

Craig wrote:You do realize that the whole dispute with Chimera was over the stuff in "the rest" right? I don't think any of us really think Zimms deserved a guilty conviction, we just what he did was wrong and sympathize with the kid who got shot for walking home near an asshole


Really?
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Post #306 by Craig » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:56 am

Banana wrote:Really?


...Yes. I think You're actually on everyone else's side, you're just confused.
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Post #307 by AD » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 am

Craig wrote:...Yes. I think You're actually on everyone else's side, you're just confused.


But that means Chim is on everyone else's side as well.
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Post #308 by Craig » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:08 am

Banana wrote:But that means Chim is on everyone else's side as well.


Chim has been putting Trayvon and Zimmerman on equal footing, morally speaking, and has no sympathy for the dead one.
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Post #309 by AD » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:10 am

Craig wrote:Chim has been putting Trayvon and Zimmerman on equal footing, morally speaking, and has no sympathy for the dead one.


I have sympathy for both of them.. can we argue about that?
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Post #310 by Ironchef Chris Wok » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:38 am

jester wrote:The other thing here is that the gun rights lobby pushes responsibility as part of the carrying policies they advocate for. Specifically the idea that gun carriers both deserve that responsibility, and are more responsible because they carry. The extreme end literally believe that EVERYONE should be carrying at all times, as that will lead to a better society. even more alarming is that they preach a mental approach of hyper threat awareness. I forget the writer's name (a liberal who has a carry permit), but there was a really interesting piece written a few months back exploring the whole concept. So, part of the problem here is that if you are Zimmerman, and you are carrying, more responsibility is expected of you.

It is not too much to ask that our gun carrying citizens have a higher level of responsibility expected of em.

Spitzer (who knows a thing or two about prosecuting people) has come out and criticized the decision to go for murder as opposed to just manslaughter.


I sometimes read gun sites, and the "higher responsibility" thing is existent. It's 2 pronged though, yes there is this hyper-vigiliance to protect your family/property/neighbours aspect, but there is this also hyper-vigiliance against being prosecuted for the use of your firearm in these situations, and for responsible gun safety.
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Post #311 by RTWAP » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:50 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:I wouldn't want to state an unpopular opinion. That would be trolling, of course.


Repped.
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Post #312 by Craig » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:51 am

Banana wrote:I have sympathy for both of them.. can we argue about that?


Only if you want to be on my side.
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Post #313 by RTWAP » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:58 am

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:I'm pretty sure he would have been convicted of Manslaughter or more here in Ontario.

- stalking - Check
- carrying a concealed weapon - check
- person he stalked ended up dead - check

So yes, in jurisdictions where the NRA doesn't write the laws, a douche like Zimmerman would go to jail, even if Precious is the star witness. Here he'd have a better chance by claiming temporary insanity though, rather than self defense.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/sentenced+years+2011+Patrick+stabbing+death/8495505/story.html

OTTAWA — A 20-year-old man convicted in the 2011 St. Patrick’s Day stabbing death of Scott Ledoux was sentenced to six years in jail.

A jury convicted Ben Taylor of manslaughter in February.

Taylor had testified during his trial that he was defending himself from an attack by a bigger, older man who was beating him in his own Orléans apartment.

Defence lawyer Pat McCann had argued that Taylor should be released from prison after already serving more than two years.

Crown prosecutor Robert Wadden had argued for eight years, including time already served, given that Taylor hid a knife in his pocket and stabbed an unarmed Ledoux eight times during a fist fight.

Justice Charles Hackland said that Taylor, who was 18 at the time of the stabbing, has “excellent prospects for rehabilitation.” The circumstances surrounding the stabbing were also a factor in the sentence.

“In this case, I believe a somewhat reduced sentence is warranted due to the severity of the beating Mr. Taylor received at the time he employed the knife,” Hackland ruled. “This provocation reduces the moral blameworthiness surrounding his use of the knife.”

Taylor had invited friends over for “pre-drinking” before heading out to a St. Patrick’s Day party the night of the stabbing, Hackland said in the decision. He left his one-bedroom basement apartment in the charge of one of his friends, but when he returned just after midnight he found it trashed, with a loud party in progress.

“Liquor and broken beer bottles and smashed furniture covered the floor,” Hackland said. “He immediately tried to get people to leave.”

Ledoux, 22, was one of several who refused to leave. He asked Taylor “What the f--- he was going to do about it,” Hackland detailed. Both were intoxicated.

“At that point, Mr. Taylor punched the victim in the head in what was considered by the victim and his friends to be a ‘sucker punch,’” Hackland said.

A “vigorous but brief fist fight” ensued, but was broken up, Hackland said. Ledoux went outside and called for Taylor to come fight him. It was at this point that Taylor picked up a steak knife from the sink and put it in his pocket. Two of his friends testified that Taylor said he would use it against Ledoux if he returned. Taylor also asked a friend to call 911.

Ledoux, who was 30 pounds heavier than Taylor, did return. He knocked Taylor to the ground and “was, by all accounts, administering a beating,” Hackland said. Despite many witnesses, no one saw the actual stabbing.

Taylor ran away from his apartment after stabbing Ledoux and spent the night at a friend’s house. He turned himself in the following day, after he found out Ledoux had died.

Taylor’s remaining sentence, after the two years and three months already served, is three years and nine months.
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Post #314 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 am

Banana wrote:Laws are part of the social fabric. Oh wow.. a breakthrough right threre. Did you come up with that gem all by yourself? Lets give this man a PhD in sociology!!





When discussing the legal regime applicable to a court case, its the laws that are directly applicable that are under scrutiny. Everything else is just "the rest". For fucks sake.. the leave no child behind act or whatever other stupid education law in the US may have left Zimmerman behind for all we know and that may have ultimately affected him in a way that got him to that situation. Should we scrutinize that legal nugget too or can we summarize all the rest and call them "fucked up social factors"?


Craig wrote:You do realize that the whole dispute with Chimera was over the stuff in "the rest" right? I don't think any of us really think Zimms deserved a guilty conviction, we just what he did was wrong and sympathize with the kid who got shot for walking home near an asshole


That was a touch over the top, though I enjoyed it. Also, what Craig said.
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Post #315 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 am

:hugz:
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Post #316 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:15 pm



Seems like a different kind of case. Significantly less reasonable doubt. Physical contact initiated by the killer.

I don't understand why people are being so dense about the Zimmerman case. He's not guilty in any civilized courtroom.
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Post #317 by AD » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:37 pm

mooseOAK wrote:Little early for that, a civil case is still a possibility.


Civil cases don't prove criminal guilt. Only responsibility, which no one is denying.
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Post #318 by PredsFan77 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:51 pm

[CENTER][YOUTUBE]41qC3w3UUkU[/YOUTUBE][/CENTER]
CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
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Post #319 by PredsFan77 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:33 am

I wonder when Obama is going to talk about the black murders going on in his home city.
CDX.NA.IG.9



















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Post #320 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:43 pm

@BreakingNews 19s
George Zimmerman taken into custody in central Florida after incident involving gun - @clickorlando http://bit.ly/13BKWeB
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Post #321 by Dog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:47 pm

She's divorcing him this quickly after he won the lottery? Freaking gold digger!
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Post #322 by MP » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:49 pm

Luke wrote:@BreakingNews 19s
George Zimmerman taken into custody in central Florida after incident involving gun - @clickorlando http://bit.ly/13BKWeB


Sometimes, the legal system fails...
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Post #323 by Dog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:52 pm

Masterplan wrote:Sometimes, the legal system fails...


It could have been any of us scared white folks in our decent neighboorhoods that night. YOU MUST ACQUIT!
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Post #324 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:52 pm

So many criminals, so little time for Georgie Wayne.

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Post #325 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:27 pm

Big#D wrote:what if the non-guilty verdict just reaffirmed to him that he was right to defend himself? what if this situation was practically the same and his thought was, "i need to defend myself again." ? give the guy a break. he's just trying to make the world safe from skittle eating, hoodie wearing degenerates.


Racist.

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Post #326 by PPJ » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:50 pm

Big#D wrote:whites and mexicans can wear hoodies and eat skittles too.

:beaker_conspiracy:


I wore a hoodie to work today.
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Post #327 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:57 pm

"Kill?! Me? Oh you are priceless brat"

What's that from?

:)
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Post #328 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:19 pm

Big#D wrote:luke? i agree.


[SIZE="7"]:)[/size]
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Post #329 by PPJ » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:55 pm

Luke wrote:[SIZE="7"]:)[/size]


I got shot at today,......

















With a smile!
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Post #330 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:59 pm

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:I got shot at today,......

















With a smile!


I sent a drone to shoot back at D.

Exclusive footage:

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Post #331 by AD » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:16 pm

You guys are killing the blacks one teenager at a time...
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Post #332 by AD » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:26 pm

I don't feel like starting a new thread for this one.
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Post #333 by shredz [Bot] » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:15 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Conservative protector of traditional values and gunslinger hero arrested again!

Image


Pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/justice/florida-george-zimmerman-arrest/

(for those too lazy to look it up)
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Post #334 by shredz [Bot] » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:17 am

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Post #335 by Captain Roy Bringus » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:25 am

(Shamefully stolen from Twitter)

Might as well have Floyd Mayweather stand in for DMX. Not like Zimmerman can tell the difference.
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Post #336 by Cao » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:11 pm

I kind of want to see Zimmerman win, but I also want to see DMX beat him down while "Go to Sleep" is playing.

Overall it will probably be a real stupid waste of time
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Post #337 by shredz [Bot] » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:18 pm

[YOUTUBE]I0nAjxPV-E8[/YOUTUBE]

Besides Ready to meet him, this is his best song ever.

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