Racist sexist & homophobic men whitesplain to each other that it's all ok

bloop bloop blah
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Post #701 by clawfirst » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:15 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:Madonna is being hateful, but the guy calling her a racist bitch I guess isn't.


Did you read it in her fake British accent though? I think it makes a difference
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Post #702 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:16 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:Why wouldn't he be?


He was justifiably upset.
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Post #703 by shredz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:19 pm

Calling him Dirty Soap might be a greater offence.
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Post #704 by Fruity Pebbles » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:I have repeatedly said this place is not Stormfront. The only time I compared it to Stormfront (I believe) was when AD said that we didn't need to worry about offending women and minorities because they don't post here. That was used to make a point, not as a direct comparison. And hate speech is a fluid term, but I would say using slurs like nigger and faggot as epithets qualifies by almost any definition.


No, hate speech is a legal term.
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Post #705 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:26 pm

Dot wrote:No, hate speech is a legal term.


It can also be used as a non-legal term, which is the way in which I have been discussing it. I apologize if its use as a legal term has made my intentions unclear.
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Post #706 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:28 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:He was justifiably upset.


So if a black person called Madonna a bitch, it would not be racist for her (or anyone else) to call them a nigger?
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Post #707 by Sturminator » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:33 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:I have repeatedly said this place is not Stormfront. The only time I compared it to Stormfront (I believe) was when AD said that we didn't need to worry about offending women and minorities because they don't post here. That was used to make a point, not as a direct comparison. And hate speech is a fluid term, but I would say using slurs like nigger and faggot as epithets qualifies by almost any definition.


The problem is that no, those words do not constitute much of anything out of context. Was Sinclair engaging in hate speech when he ended every post with the word cockfag? Or does "fag" not count because it is a shortening of a "truly" hateful word?

You don't seem to really understand much about the culture you are criticizing here. The faggot thread you cite features people referring to fucking hockeysense as a faggot. Given that we all know the abortion story, who actually believes that HS is a homosexual? That's hate speech allright, but it's not directed at gays.

I'm not a fan of JH's use of the word nigger in that thread, but if you don't like it and think he should be upbraided for it, why don't you just fucking do it yourself? Artie actually did lightly criticize him for his use of the word nigger in that post, though I doubt you picked it up because it didn't involve hand-wringing and ham-handed denunciations.
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Post #708 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:36 pm

As I covered earlier in this thread, if you use a slur as a pejorative, it means you believe the person should/will be insulted for being associated with that race/sex/minority. Hate speech does not need to be directed at a member of the group it is inciting/perpetuating hatred against.
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Post #709 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:37 pm

And if you expect me to hunt down and personally chastise every single racist/sexist/homophobic post on this site, you are just sidestepping the point by being unreasonable.
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Post #710 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:40 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:So if a black person called Madonna a bitch, it would not be racist for her (or anyone else) to call them a nigger?


Depends on which group is more oppressed. What do you think?

I say the black guy wins.
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Post #711 by Sturminator » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:50 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:As I covered earlier in this thread, if you use a slur as a pejorative, it means you believe the person should/will be insulted for being associated with that race/sex/minority. Hate speech does not need to be directed at a member of the group it is inciting/perpetuating hatred against.


So how pure do we want this place to be? No direct racist/sexist speech, and no indirect, either? Does this mean chicpea and I have to do our frotting through a hole in the sheet now?

Nothing that you say is of any interest to me because what you're doing is indulging in third-hand outrage. Nothing said here has been directed at you, nor at any of your friends. You are offended on behalf of an ideal, a theoretical black lesbian in the sky who sheds a big, wet tear every time someone says #niggerbitchwhore. It must be hard defending the universe from evil.
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Post #712 by Sturminator » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:54 pm

Roderick Jaynes wrote:And if you expect me to hunt down and personally chastise every single racist/sexist/homophobic post on this site, you are just sidestepping the point by being unreasonable.


How's about you deal with the ones you see and stop trying to save the broad, ok?
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Post #713 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:57 pm

Sturminator wrote:So how pure do we want this place to be? No direct racist/sexist speech, and no indirect, either?

I would advocate for that. At the very least it should be discouraged, which is far from the case.
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Post #714 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:10 pm

vonbonds wrote:If you want serious talk stick to HF. I genuinely apologize for offending people who are lesser than me.


Indeed, my good friend.

HockeyBroads.com, the core of it, is generally comprised of human beings that are superior to 98-99% of the human population. We are educated, possess excellent taste in food, music and cinema, and are obscenely wealthy.

We are also eternally grateful to be living in the finest age of all. : )
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Post #715 by Twitter bArt » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:27 pm

I am the 1%, Edouardo
:mkbét::lr: :lr:

OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone

It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.

Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."

...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...

Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.


:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Post #716 by Twitter bArt » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:30 pm

embracedbias wrote:Everyone is bigoted. We can't help but favor ingroups and we have a natural bias against outgroups. Humans are a tribal species.

I seriously doubt the terms you are using (racist/sexist/homophobic) apply to many people here. Hardly anyone (i imagine) truly believes that black people/women/gays are inherently inferior.


I don't know that everyone here is bigoted
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Post #717 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:33 pm

embracedbias wrote:Everyone is bigoted. We can't help but favor ingroups and we have a natural bias against outgroups. Humans are a tribal species.

I seriously doubt the terms you are using (racist/sexist/homophobic) apply to many people here. Hardly anyone (i imagine) truly believes that black people/women/gays are inherently inferior.


http://www.notracistbut.com/
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Post #718 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:43 pm

MacArturo wrote:I am the 1%, Edouardo


It is because of this, and several other reasons, that you are a good man and my good friend.
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Post #719 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:46 pm

embracedbias wrote:Everyone is bigoted. We can't help but favor ingroups and we have a natural bias against outgroups. Humans are a tribal species.

I seriously doubt the terms you are using (racist/sexist/homophobic) apply to many people here. Hardly anyone (i imagine) truly believes that black people/women/gays are inherently inferior.


sidneycrosbyfan did. Haven't seen him post for a long time.
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Post #720 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:03 pm

Goddammit, my wife is beautiful, fellas.


<-------
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Post #721 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:09 am

Fellas, just popping in to wish everyone a wonderful Sunday. : )
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Post #722 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:16 am

dempsey_k wrote:People don't want to be told that they're those things because those things are bad, but most people, like nearly everyone, skates by through life erroneously thinking they aren't doing anything to piss people off by reducing them to race, gender, orientation, culture, etc. Just saw a study done recently that Asian-Americans are more likely to develop psychological problems because of the frequent microaggression comments about how they're math superstar octopus rapists CHING CHONG DING DONG. If the first thing you can think of when an Asian person walks in the room is either Anime or Gran Torino, you're a problem. Saying "oh it's all in good fun, develop thicker skin" only compounds the problem, especially coming from people who don't face that.


Most of those problems are caused by upbringing (parents), certainly not some guy on the internet.
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Post #723 by RTWAP » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:32 am

Roderick Jaynes wrote:It can also be used as a non-legal term, which is the way in which I have been discussing it. I apologize if its use as a legal term has made my intentions unclear.


You're using it so loosely that it has no meaning. Comedy with vulgar words is not hate. So it's hate speech without the hate. So it's just speech then.
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Post #724 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:40 am

dempsey_k wrote:Asians aren't unique in having the mythological "Asian parent", and I think everyone except olds know how to block out meanies on the internet.


Not mythological. If the (Chinese, to be precise) parents are first generation immigrants then it's quite likely.
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Post #725 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:51 am

Asians develop psychological problems because people believe that they are trained math whizzes? That's very strange.
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Post #726 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:58 am

dempsey_k wrote:The presumption that they'd be good at math can get tiresome and needling, but I'm more talking about jokes that white folk think are light-hearted.


I don't think jokes hurt people. It's when the jokes become personal. When they're directed at a person. When it becomes part of goading the person.

Jokes in and of themselves - harmless, IMO.
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Post #727 by Sturminator » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:10 am

What I want to know is: why are we still using hate speech against mongs and gastropods here. If bitches and niggers need Roderick's protection, what about fats and dumbs? I am fit and intelligent, so it's hard for me to judge, but I imagine it must be tough going through life overweight and stupid. Could it be (hold me, RTWAP) that we have inflicted real psychological distress on Jeffler with all the lardass jokes? Maybe Jeffler ate himself to the size of a small moon as a way of compensating for other things that were missing in his life. He called it a "dark period", didn't he? Is dong being a sociopath when he talks about the fat pad that covers Jeffler's micropenis?

And what about idiots or people with personality disorders? Intelligence is largely a product of genetic inheritance. Training and education seem to be able to shift IQ by about one standard deviation, but if you are conceived by a couple of mouth breathers, odds are you won't be going to MIT. Is it any more fair to ridicule people for their intelligence than it is to ridicule them for the color of their skin? What of poor hockeysense and beaker? Where's the love for maladjusted, narcissistic dunderheads? I seriously doubt that hs and beaker got the way they are without a lot of help from a lot of unkind people in their lives. Isn't it horrible of us to troll hockeysense when he is probably just trying to work his way through feelings resulting from a childhood of neglect?

It's almost enough to make a nigga start cutting himself.
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Post #728 by Sturminator » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:32 am

dempsey_k wrote:Body shaming is a discussion that's been going on for a long time (study on how fat shaming fatties actually makes them fatter just this week), and so has harsh treatment of the mentally ill (remember Foucault?). Of course, both are much more discussed today in the larger conversion on race & sexuality. Sympathy for the dumb is as old as Jesus, but forgiving ignorance and bad choices is tied, again, into the larger conversation. Telling somebody whose parents were kicked off welfare in 1996 in Bubba's grand bargain with the Republicans that they should lift themselves up by their own bootstraps and quit making poor choices is basically telling them "you shoulda chose better parents who could afford to feed you each morning and live in a neighborhood without crack dealers outside your house".


So based on what standards can we judge other people, k? Wait, wait, I know: moral purity. Or maybe the sociopath/not sociopath dichotomy is a winner? The criticism here is not that we pass judgment on others - it's that our standards for judgment should be more of the sheltered, limp-dick variety.
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Post #729 by Sturminator » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:02 am

dempsey_k wrote:lol, we don't have to update arithmetic so stupid people can do it just because we now recognize that it's deleterious on another's life to reduce them to an identity or physical characteristic.


The form of social interaction in which we engage here is inherently shallow and reductive, and can aspire to nothing more. Broads is an internet message board, moonbeam. If you want social situations in which people are treated holistically, this is simply not the correct format. Yeah, if you squint your eyes, angle your head just right and completely ignore the context of our interactions here, it can all look quite sinister. But why should we do that?
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Post #730 by shredz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:43 am

Muslim University Student in Canada Refuses to Do Course Work with Women (is this the right thread?)


A York University student has sparked a brouhaha after he was granted permission to be excused from some course work because he did not want to work with women for religious reasons.

A York University student who refused to do group work with women for religious reasons has sparked a human rights tug-of-war between a professor and campus administration.

While the professor wanted to deny the student’s request, a university dean ordered him to comply.

Professor Paul Grayson is now blowing the whistle on what he sees as a hierarchy of freedoms at York — religious rights trumping women’s rights.

“In order to meet an instance of a religious requirement we have tacitly accepted a negative definition of females,” Grayson told the Star. “That’s not acceptable.”

The brouhaha began in September when a student in an online sociology class emailed Grayson about the class’s only in-person requirement: a student-run focus group.

“One of the main reasons that I have chosen internet courses to complete my BA is due to my firm religious beliefs,” the student wrote. “It will not be possible for me to meet in public with a group of women (the majority of my group) to complete some of these tasks.”

While Grayson’s gut reaction was to deny the request, he forwarded the email to the faculty’s dean and the director for the centre for human rights.

Their response shocked him; the student’s request was permitted.

The reasoning was apparently that students studying abroad in the same online class were given accommodations, and allowed to complete an alternative assignment.

“I think Mr. X must be accommodated in exactly the same way as the distant student has been,” the vice dean wrote to Grayson.

The professor argues that is not a valid comparison — there is a major difference between accommodating someone who can’t physically meet class members versus someone who refuses to interact with women, he says.

Grayson’s reply was scathing.

“York is a secular university. It is not a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or Moslem university. In our policy documents and (hopefully) in our classes we cling to the secular idea that all should be treated equally, independent of, for example, their religion or sex or race.

“Treating Mr. X equally would mean that, like other students, he is expected to interact with female students in his group.”

A university provost, speaking on behalf of the dean, said the decision to grant the student’s request was made after consulting legal counsel, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the university’s human rights centre.

“Students often select online courses to help them navigate all types of personal circumstances that make it difficult for them to attend classes on campus, and all students in the class would normally have access to whatever alternative grading scheme had been put in place as a result of the online format,” said Rhonda Lenton, provost and vice president academic.

The director of the Centre for Human Rights also weighed in on the decision in an email to Grayson.

“While I fully share your initial impression, the OHRC does require accommodations based on religious observances.”

The professor argued that if a Christian student refused to interact with a black student, as one could argue with a skewed interpretation of the Bible, the university would undoubtedly reject the request.

“I see no difference in this situation,” Grayson wrote.

The student’s religious identity is unclear because human rights rules bar a professor from asking a student their religion. However, based on the student’s name, Grayson surmised that he is either an Orthodox Jew or Muslim.

Jewish and Muslim scholars from York told Grayson that neither religion instructs a man to avoid interacting with women in public.

“Unless he is asked to be physical with a female student, which I assume he isn’t, there is absolutely no justification for not interacting with females in public space,” an Islamic scholar wrote to the professor.

The professor took the dean’s ruling to a department meeting. Other professors agreed with Grayson and passed a motion refusing any student accommodations if they marginalize a student, faculty member or teaching assistant.

The following day, Grayson used this justification to reject the student’s request.

The professor insisted that the student at the centre of the controversy is not a zealot. In fact, he later agreed to work with his assigned group, many of whom were women.

“I cannot expect that everything will perfectly suit what I would consider an ideal situation,” the student wrote. “I will respect the final decision, and do my best to accommodate it. I thank you for the way you have handled this request, and I look forward to continuing in this course.”

Regardless, Grayson may face consequences for defying the dean’s decision and creating a new departmental policy to justify his stance.

“My union has told me that under the circumstances I could be subject to disciplinary measures,” Grayson said.

He doubts that will happen.

“It would open such a can of worms for the university trying to sanction someone from, basically, expressing them self.”

The university did not answer the Star’s questions as to whether Grayson will be reprimanded.

The incident is the latest clash between religious values and Ontario’s secular education system.
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Post #731 by Zardoz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:09 am

The student’s religious identity is unclear because human rights rules bar a professor from asking a student their religion. However, based on the student’s name, Grayson surmised that he is either an Orthodox Jew or Muslim.


Grayson seems like an idiot. Trying to surmise the students religion based on his last name because you aren't allowed to just ask him? You don't see a problem with this Grayson?
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Post #732 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:14 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Oh, to be clear, I don't care to change anything about this place. I think this thread is my admission of having long since given up on that.


This man has given up on a dream. A star that once shone so brightly is no more.
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Post #733 by shredz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Putin: Russia must 'cleanse' itself of gays, but they shouldn't fear Sochi

Russian President Vladimir Putin defended Russia's anti-gay law Sunday, linking homosexuality with pedophilia and stating Russia needs to "cleanse" itself of gays if it wants to increase its birth rate.


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/19/putin-russia-mustcleanseitselfofgays.html
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Post #734 by mcphee » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:25 pm

Zardoz wrote:Grayson seems like an idiot. Trying to surmise the students religion based on his last name because you aren't allowed to just ask him? You don't see a problem with this Grayson?


My daughter counsels students in a writing centre in a university. A student told her that he had requested a man for this assistance. She told him to accept her help or leave and address the issue with someone else , either wdy she would be working that day. He stayed, no media was required .
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Post #735 by Zardoz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:13 pm

mcphee wrote:My daughter counsels students in a writing centre in a university. A student told her that he had requested a man for this assistance. She told him to accept her help or leave and address the issue with someone else , either wdy she would be working that day. He stayed, no media was required .


The student at York came to terms with the course requirements, which seems like the least talked about part of the story here. Really he could have just lied and said he was unable to do group work in person, period, and that's why he's taking a distance course.
It essentially breaks down to:
"I'd prefer to not work with women students because it conflicts or tempts some of my religious doctrine"
"That's bullshit, you're oppressing women"
"Fine, this class is important to me."
"What are you, a Jew?"

By the by, I'm not totally familiar with Orthodox Jewish rules, but I find it funny that he consulted "Scholars" to tell him that there's nothing to prohibit men from working with women.
I call bullshit on that. I know a girl who works up in a lab up near Lawrence and Bathurst in Toronto. She actually had to remain unseen (by hiding in a back room) on certain days when Hasidic men were entering the clinic.

edit: A scholars interpretation is just that, an interpretation. Practice is a totally different thing and every religion has thousands of offshoots. So how does a University navigate the idea of legitimate vs illegitimate religions? At what point should we just say "Fuck it, no religion is protected" or do we just play favourites?
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Post #736 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:26 pm

dempsey_k wrote:The presumption that they'd be good at math can get tiresome and needling


Sounds like our good friend 'sey_k is growing tired of the jabs about his alleged verbosity.
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Post #737 by Macbeth » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:04 am

Shredder's had a rough month.
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shredz
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Post #738 by shredz » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:13 am

dempsey_k wrote:This isn't a news thread doofus.


I know. I am trying to spark discussion on the topics at hand because the thread was dying. That might not be a bad thing though.

:smuglanne:

Macbeth wrote:Shredder's had a rough month.


Indeed. SAWG.
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Post #739 by Sturminator » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:20 am

Shredder wrote:I know. I am trying to spark discussion on the topics at hand because the thread was dying.


Needs moar haet.
If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation.
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Post #740 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:40 am

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Post #741 by IcE ColD » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Geeky men... aren't they aware of "Forever Alone" if they're geeks?
This whole idea that we are even important is a fucking illusion. We’re just an accident left to our own devices.

Trent Reznor - 24/07/2018
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Post #742 by Dr_Chimera » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:29 pm

I like how Anissimov throws several tweets Tim Stanley's way, desperate to goad him into an argument, while Stanley just ignores him.
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Post #743 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:14 pm

"Is it good for the movement?" asks the header to this article. It's so fundamentally dishonest to frame this discussion around a question like that, when the actual question should be "what are the consequences of the the unchecked privilege of those in feminism with the most powerful voices?" And the answer is that the needs of the most marginalized are often ignored while the work of women of color is appropriated.

Any discussion of whether there are times when it IS appropriate to look at intent, or if moderating one's tone can ever genuinely lead to more effective achievement of goals, needs to be framed around a very clear understanding that it was the failure of mainstream, powerful, academic, established feminism to include the voices of women of color and acknowledge the needs to women of color that has made these issues relevant in the first place.

In light of the consequences of NOT calling out the people who are screwing up, and NOT making potentially aggressive attempts to get their voices heard, I don't think it's particularly troubling that people are sometimes mean. It certainly is much BETTER for the movement than allowing the privileged behavior of people in power to go unchecked.

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