OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

I'm pretty sure it was by accident
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6901 by jester » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 am

So ... there's a major developing story about ballots sitting with USPS. Buckle up.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6902 by Hovercraft » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:51 am

Yeah they missed a court mandated deadline yesterday didn't they? Dejoy is a hack
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6903 by jester » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:30 pm

Judge said he intends to depose DeJoy. Not really clear whether anything nefarious occurred, but ... DeJoy is going to regret getting involved here.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6904 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:13 pm

My group chat has been fantastic with my one Trump friend just repeating all of Trump's tweets. I told him I'm glad he's smart enough to think for himself. Currently claiming 500k more people voted in Wisconsin then there were registered. Linked me an instagram picture with no source, was silent when I mentioned the 300k missing ballots from USPS though.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6905 by chaosof99 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:21 am

Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:My group chat has been fantastic with my one Trump friend just repeating all of Trump's tweets. I told him I'm glad he's smart enough to think for himself. Currently claiming 500k more people voted in Wisconsin then there were registered. Linked me an instagram picture with no source, was silent when I mentioned the 300k missing ballots from USPS though.


This is apparently a popular cannard where Trumpers are comparing votes cast in 2020 against the number of registered voters... from 2016.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6906 by Hovercraft » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:16 pm

Why does GA senate election go to a runoff for sub 50% but not NC? Just state law differences?
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6907 by jester » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:14 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Why does GA senate election go to a runoff for sub 50% but not NC? Just state law differences?


Different rules. In GA you HAVE to get to 50%+1 for everything other than the presidential (pretty sure that's true, but basically any state-controlled office). Couple other states have this, too -- e.g., pretty sure Louisiana does it also. Essentially, it's RCV voting via a second election (which is much more expensive than just doing RCV).

Once upon a time, we didn't even vote for senators. The state legislators/governors just selected 'em.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6908 by jester » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:15 pm

chaosof99 wrote:
Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:My group chat has been fantastic with my one Trump friend just repeating all of Trump's tweets. I told him I'm glad he's smart enough to think for himself. Currently claiming 500k more people voted in Wisconsin then there were registered. Linked me an instagram picture with no source, was silent when I mentioned the 300k missing ballots from USPS though.


This is apparently a popular cannard where Trumpers are comparing votes cast in 2020 against the number of registered voters... from 2016.


Yeah, there were bad numbers about Wisconsin going around almost immediately. Additionally, Wisconsin has same-day registration (which should exist everywhere).
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6909 by Kilgore Trout » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:31 pm

jester wrote:
Once upon a time, we didn't even vote for senators. The state legislators/governors just selected 'em.


Imagine the shit stains PA’s illustrious legislators would send to DC were that still the case.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6910 by jester » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:09 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:
jester wrote:
Once upon a time, we didn't even vote for senators. The state legislators/governors just selected 'em.


Imagine the shit stains PA’s illustrious legislators would send to DC were that still the case.


Yeah, if this was still the way it worked, some of these states would send complete nutters in. PA wouldn't even be close to the worst.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6911 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:32 pm

jester wrote:Judge said he intends to depose DeJoy. Not really clear whether anything nefarious occurred, but ... DeJoy is going to regret getting involved here.

Should there be a distinction between malicious and ignorance?

Personally, I'm a fan of dropping the hammer regardless.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6912 by Hovercraft » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:25 am

What happens to Harris' senate seat if she becomes VP? Special election?
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6913 by chaosof99 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:52 pm

Biden is President elect. Finally. I'm not even american, but damn, I'm actually smiling now. Fuck Trump. Fuck fascism.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6914 by CantSeeColors » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:50 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:
jester wrote:
Once upon a time, we didn't even vote for senators. The state legislators/governors just selected 'em.


Imagine the shit stains PA’s illustrious legislators would send to DC were that still the case.

Probably someone pretty similar to the shit stain our voters sent there in 2016
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6915 by jester » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:25 pm

Hovercraft wrote:What happens to Harris' senate seat if she becomes VP? Special election?


California governor will fill it. Different rules in different states about voters getting a say. If her seat is up in 2022 they'll probably just wait and fill it on normal schedule. Dem party is so powerful in CA they can basically do whatever they want with it.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6916 by Kilgore Trout » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:28 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:
Kilgore Trout wrote:
jester wrote:
Once upon a time, we didn't even vote for senators. The state legislators/governors just selected 'em.


Imagine the shit stains PA’s illustrious legislators would send to DC were that still the case.

Probably someone pretty similar to the shit stain our voters sent there in 2016


That’s....fair.

Though, on the scale of “Rick Santorum was one of my Senators growing up”, could be worse than Toomey?
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6917 by jester » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:38 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:
CantSeeColors wrote:
Kilgore Trout wrote:
Imagine the shit stains PA’s illustrious legislators would send to DC were that still the case.

Probably someone pretty similar to the shit stain our voters sent there in 2016


That’s....fair.

Though, on the scale of “Rick Santorum was one of my Senators growing up”, could be worse than Toomey?


Toomey isn't a bad senator in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6918 by chaosof99 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:30 am

Well, austria has seen an explosion of case numbers despite a "light" lockdown with some small restrictions, like not being able to eat at restaurants and so on. Because of that, we're headed back into full lockdown starting tuesday. Shops and schools closed, as is basically anything that's not a grocery or a post office. I've been back in full-time home office for the past two weeks already, but yeah, things aren't looking to bright.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6919 by DeadPhish » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:01 am

Yea not looking too good over here either.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6920 by jester » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:33 am

DeadPhish wrote:Yea not looking too good over here either.


You're just saying that because we are racing towards a gross death total on par with US casualties for the entirety of WWII in a single year.

In related news, I was reliably informed a few weeks back that we would stop talking about COVID on November 4th.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6921 by Hovercraft » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:28 pm

Yeah it was a democrat hoax so why is it still spiking?

Still safe here on my island. See what Christmas season brings. Hope all of you are doing alright where you are.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6922 by JLHockeyKnight » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:23 pm

Took advantage of the lowering mortgage rates and refinanced over the past 2 months. Closed yesterday. So happy to be done. Got my rate down from 3.95% to 2.8%.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6923 by jester » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:25 pm

JLHockeyKnight wrote:Took advantage of the lowering mortgage rates and refinanced over the past 2 months. Closed yesterday. So happy to be done. Got my rate down from 3.95% to 2.8%.


Nice.

We bought our house in March ... and the mortgage broker called in ~July to see if we wanted to refinance. Not sure if we'll be here long enough to make it worthwhile, though, and our rate is already absurdly low all things considered.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6924 by JLHockeyKnight » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:37 pm

jester wrote:
JLHockeyKnight wrote:Took advantage of the lowering mortgage rates and refinanced over the past 2 months. Closed yesterday. So happy to be done. Got my rate down from 3.95% to 2.8%.


Nice.

We bought our house in March ... and the mortgage broker called in ~July to see if we wanted to refinance. Not sure if we'll be here long enough to make it worthwhile, though, and our rate is already absurdly low all things considered.


I'm surprised they called you. I called our broker and said I was interested and started with him. His rate was about as low as everything else I saw online, and I liked working with them and their website setup - so I stuck with them. Yeah we were supposed to close December 17 because they were so backlogged (got through underwriting a month ago, just to put it in perspective) but they pushed us up. They said we were one of the easier ones and they're trying to get rid of those before potentially more restrictions get put in place because of COVID.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6925 by jester » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:01 pm

JLHockeyKnight wrote:
jester wrote:
JLHockeyKnight wrote:Took advantage of the lowering mortgage rates and refinanced over the past 2 months. Closed yesterday. So happy to be done. Got my rate down from 3.95% to 2.8%.


Nice.

We bought our house in March ... and the mortgage broker called in ~July to see if we wanted to refinance. Not sure if we'll be here long enough to make it worthwhile, though, and our rate is already absurdly low all things considered.


I'm surprised they called you. I called our broker and said I was interested and started with him. His rate was about as low as everything else I saw online, and I liked working with them and their website setup - so I stuck with them. Yeah we were supposed to close December 17 because they were so backlogged (got through underwriting a month ago, just to put it in perspective) but they pushed us up. They said we were one of the easier ones and they're trying to get rid of those before potentially more restrictions get put in place because of COVID.


He was a good guy during the first process, and they'd already sold off our mortgage so he was trying to drive some business and already knew our info. I'm sure he was just going over his prior deals to see who made sense and was easy to qualify at a low rate. Our current rate is like 3.25% -- which is fucking nuts because it's well below where the 7/1 ARM we had up in NJ was, and THAT was a good rate coming out the financial crash when we bought our first home. So, we could have saved about $100/month if we refinanced, but it's entirely possible we will move on from the area down here in the not too distant future (basically said we'd plan on 3ish years and evaluate what we think of the DC area).

One thing that stood out to me in both mortgage processes (which are awful for the uninitiated reading this) is just how shitty most people's credit must be. We have good income with a pretty normal debt situation, and they were more than happy to give us crazy mortgages (which is how people fuck themselves over, but I digress ...).
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6926 by Hovercraft » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:48 pm

Mortgage rates are so crazy low. I renewed in July and was able to 2.09% for 5 years and now brokers near me are advertising 1.79% on 5 year fixed. I wonder how long this bottom out will last.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6927 by JLHockeyKnight » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:10 pm

jester wrote:
JLHockeyKnight wrote:
jester wrote:
Nice.

We bought our house in March ... and the mortgage broker called in ~July to see if we wanted to refinance. Not sure if we'll be here long enough to make it worthwhile, though, and our rate is already absurdly low all things considered.


I'm surprised they called you. I called our broker and said I was interested and started with him. His rate was about as low as everything else I saw online, and I liked working with them and their website setup - so I stuck with them. Yeah we were supposed to close December 17 because they were so backlogged (got through underwriting a month ago, just to put it in perspective) but they pushed us up. They said we were one of the easier ones and they're trying to get rid of those before potentially more restrictions get put in place because of COVID.


He was a good guy during the first process, and they'd already sold off our mortgage so he was trying to drive some business and already knew our info. I'm sure he was just going over his prior deals to see who made sense and was easy to qualify at a low rate. Our current rate is like 3.25% -- which is fucking nuts because it's well below where the 7/1 ARM we had up in NJ was, and THAT was a good rate coming out the financial crash when we bought our first home. So, we could have saved about $100/month if we refinanced, but it's entirely possible we will move on from the area down here in the not too distant future (basically said we'd plan on 3ish years and evaluate what we think of the DC area).

One thing that stood out to me in both mortgage processes (which are awful for the uninitiated reading this) is just how shitty most people's credit must be. We have good income with a pretty normal debt situation, and they were more than happy to give us crazy mortgages (which is how people fuck themselves over, but I digress ...).


I mean yeah same boat with the "wow other people's credit must suck" thought when we were told they pushed our closing up a month because it was an easy checking off the list. Not complaining.

My wife and I just had the mentality of "if we don't have the money don't buy it" and only use credit cards to improve our credit and earn rewards. We pay them off every month.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6928 by JLHockeyKnight » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:12 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Mortgage rates are so crazy low. I renewed in July and was able to 2.09% for 5 years and now brokers near me are advertising 1.79% on 5 year fixed. I wonder how long this bottom out will last.


I'd love to be in a situation where a 5 year loan is an option lol. Ours is a 25 year loan. We were 3 years into a 30. So the refinance dropped the rate and our monthly payment and also ate 2 years off the loan. When you look at the amortization schedule it's amazing to see even at the start of our new loan how much more is going to principal per month.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6929 by Hovercraft » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:20 am

Oh I have a 25 year mortgage too, but we locked in rates for 5 years at a time. I am in year 6 of 25 now, but I have been paying above minimum payments and doing weekly payments instead of monthly so hopefully by the end of it I'll have cut a couple years off of the 25. It's amazing how much that stuff affects the amortization schedule as well. Definitely recommend at least switching to weekly payments if you aren't already.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6930 by Craig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:02 am

With rates as low as they are, there isn't really much incentive to pay off your mortgage faster. If you invested that money instead of putting it toward principal, you'd probably be better off in the long run. I'm actually looking at borrowing a couple hundred thousand more when I renew my mortgage to do just that.

In Canada the interest you pay on a loan that was made to invest is tax deductible too, so there's a bit of an added incentive.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6931 by Hovercraft » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:15 am

I'm not overpaying by much either way, mostly just rounded it up to a neat number. I dream of being debt free so I'm happy to pay it down a bit faster. Still do investing/saving as well
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6932 by JLHockeyKnight » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Oh I have a 25 year mortgage too, but we locked in rates for 5 years at a time. I am in year 6 of 25 now, but I have been paying above minimum payments and doing weekly payments instead of monthly so hopefully by the end of it I'll have cut a couple years off of the 25. It's amazing how much that stuff affects the amortization schedule as well. Definitely recommend at least switching to weekly payments if you aren't already.


I'm with you on being debt free, that's why I put a bit into stocks but want to pay off my car and home as quickly as possible. My inlaws paid off their house in 20 years and said that once it was paid off it was a huge relief. Anything I can do to keep moving in that direction I am all for.

I'll have to check on the weekly payments once the new loan is added to my account. Since I just closed it needs a week or so to get added.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6933 by Craig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:08 pm

Paying off your house fast is nice, but what I'm saying is if you pay down the mortgage aggressively you can pay it off in 20 years instead of 25. If you pay it off as slowly as possible and invest your money instead, you can probably pay it off in 15.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6934 by FlyHigh » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6935 by Craig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:36 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.


I wouldn't do it on a short term, but if your horizon is 15-20 years and you have a conservative strategy this isn't a very risky approach. I wouldn't target 8%, I'd aim for like 5 in safer places.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6936 by CantSeeColors » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:10 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.

Dude, keep grinding on those student loans. I’m two months away from finishing mine off and I’m beyond excited
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6937 by Hovercraft » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:28 am

JLHockeyKnight wrote:
Hovercraft wrote:Oh I have a 25 year mortgage too, but we locked in rates for 5 years at a time. I am in year 6 of 25 now, but I have been paying above minimum payments and doing weekly payments instead of monthly so hopefully by the end of it I'll have cut a couple years off of the 25. It's amazing how much that stuff affects the amortization schedule as well. Definitely recommend at least switching to weekly payments if you aren't already.


I'm with you on being debt free, that's why I put a bit into stocks but want to pay off my car and home as quickly as possible. My inlaws paid off their house in 20 years and said that once it was paid off it was a huge relief. Anything I can do to keep moving in that direction I am all for.

I'll have to check on the weekly payments once the new loan is added to my account. Since I just closed it needs a week or so to get added.


Yeah even biweekly instead of monthly makes a difference over the length of a mortgage. If you have the money in your account anyway, might as well.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6938 by jester » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:26 am

FlyHigh wrote:Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.


The market moving inexorably upwards is a multiple decades view, and it almost certainly will be right, assuming you don't have the unfortunate luck to retire just as a major depression strikes without having moved into safer assets.

That said, you shouldn't think of student loans as remotely similar to mortgage payments. Student loans are paying down already accrued debt ... and then it goes away. A mortgage is paying into a home and ... earning equity (e.g., my house that we bought in March is worth $30K more already). A house is also something you can sell, why pay off a mortgage faster if you're not going to stay in that home until you reach the end of a mortgage? And, not for nothing, if your goal is to pay down the mortgage as fast as possible, you're likely better making your monthly payments and investing the "extra" payments, which will eventually allow you to pay the principle off earlier than extra monthly payments or whatever.

So, I think paying down student debt as swiftly as possible makes a good bit of logic. Partially because you can then use those funds to put those payments into something like a mortgage, in which you will build equity.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6939 by JLHockeyKnight » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:37 am

Hovercraft wrote:
JLHockeyKnight wrote:
Hovercraft wrote:Oh I have a 25 year mortgage too, but we locked in rates for 5 years at a time. I am in year 6 of 25 now, but I have been paying above minimum payments and doing weekly payments instead of monthly so hopefully by the end of it I'll have cut a couple years off of the 25. It's amazing how much that stuff affects the amortization schedule as well. Definitely recommend at least switching to weekly payments if you aren't already.


I'm with you on being debt free, that's why I put a bit into stocks but want to pay off my car and home as quickly as possible. My inlaws paid off their house in 20 years and said that once it was paid off it was a huge relief. Anything I can do to keep moving in that direction I am all for.

I'll have to check on the weekly payments once the new loan is added to my account. Since I just closed it needs a week or so to get added.


Yeah even biweekly instead of monthly makes a difference over the length of a mortgage. If you have the money in your account anyway, might as well.


The only hard part to this (not saying it's undoable) is that how we budget is my wife gets paid monthly and makes enough to cover the entire mortgage due the first of the month. So her paycheck appears, and then a day later it mostly disappears for the mortgage payment. So it kind of conveniently acts as an automatic payment. We also typically don't leave much in the checking account so that it can collect interest in high yield savings accounts (not much right now though) and move it back over to checking to make payments to credit cards, etc.

Of course, the counter to all of that would be just have the bi-weekly mortgage payment get paid the day after my paycheck arrives and it should cover it.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6940 by JLHockeyKnight » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:50 am

Craig wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.


I wouldn't do it on a short term, but if your horizon is 15-20 years and you have a conservative strategy this isn't a very risky approach. I wouldn't target 8%, I'd aim for like 5 in safer places.


I mean you're right financially, but I think FlyHigh summed up my mentality. I grew up where my Mom was in constant debt (still is, although almost out) after the divorce. I'm lucky that I made it through college, paid off my loans, can afford a house and good cars, and have it where my family can live comfortably. To that end, yes I can make way more taking the extra money and make way more investing than paying off loans, but as they said, it helps me sleep better at night. Since I just refinanced too, I've learned paying to principal way early in the loan life has the greatest impacts. So I may want to pay more to it in the next year or two and then ride the rest out.

That said, I still have been taking more of our savings (not the emergency fund) that was in high yield savings accounts and starting to move it to my brokerage account and investing it. Our high yield savings account is at 0.55%. It was at 3% this time last year. I figure now is a good time to buy more stock. If COVID causes another dip, I'll just buy more. I didn't in March/April because I had no idea where the market was going to go. Now that there's a vaccine on the horizon and it isn't the silver bullet solution, I don't think the market will react as bad as it did last time (note: I found myself playing devil's advocate to that statement as I typed it out). But even buying now, once we come out of this I think there's room to make some serious cash on some investments (looking in your direction airlines, pharmacies, and movie theaters).

But typically stocks like MSFT, TGT, WMT have all done great this time of year. Yes historical data cannot predict future stock trends, but just common logic (Black Friday, Holidays) to me makes them good buys. Plus you make more in some blue chip dividends than you do in my high yield savings account at 0.55%. In my eyes now's a good time to start getting in on them until year end.

To sum up, I'm happy with a healthy mix of paying off loans faster and taking some savings and investing more. Right now my goal is to pay off my car as fast as I can. That opens up like $400 a month extra which I can use as I see fit.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6941 by jester » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:08 pm

Given how low your mortgage rate is, you're likely going to benefit much more investing those payments for 10-20 years and then dropping them on the principal as opposed to paying down early. Primary advantage of these stupid low mortgages is that early payoff isn't all that advantageous.

I'm also not sure the vaccine good news will juice the market too much. It has demonstrated an absurd degree of sanguinity towards events since it recovered this past summer.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6942 by FlyHigh » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:Your major assumption there is that markets keeping moving inexorably upwards. And you could be right! I certainly hope you are.

But as someone that has followed a similar path to Hover+JL (subbing student loans for mortgage for me), I would rather just sleep better at night and pay it off faster now, even if the “smart” move is to put a bunch of cash in the market and get your 7-8% while the interest on your loan is at 2-3%.

Everybody’s wired a bit differently and has different tolerance for risk. I have no problem letting my 401(k) ride and putting *some* money in the market to save for medium-term expenses, but just being debt free has a lot of appeal to me as well.

Dude, keep grinding on those student loans. I’m two months away from finishing mine off and I’m beyond excited


In the interest of full disclosure I finished up around a year ago, felt amazing! And definitely much easier for me without a spouse/child in the picture. Congratulations on it, that’s a phenomenal Xmas present for yourself!

And Craig/jester, you both make great points. Certainly a student loan is different than a mortgage and I would agree that it’s a relatively safe bet that over a 15-20 year period, you’re going to earn more in the market and pay your loan off quicker. Who knows, when it comes to a mortgage maybe I’ll embrace that way of thinking.

That said, I think childhood/upbringing has a fair amount to do with this and attitudes towards debt. I also tend to have an aversion to debt that stems from family circumstances like JL. Still feel like I hit the lottery financially and keep waiting for all of it to get taken away (again, I realize this is dumb). So even though I certainly see the other side, it’s difficult when your animal brain is screaming at you to pay it off ASAP and ultimately isn’t worth added stress/anxiety.

I have a couple friends from LS that are banking on blanket student loan forgiveness and plowing everything they can into the market, gives me vicarious anxiety just thinking about it (admittedly not really analogous to the mortgage situation).
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6943 by jester » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:40 pm

Depends on the mortgage, too. Given historically low mortgage rates, the math on all of this is much different than if you had like a 5.5/6 interest rate on your mortgage.

And I wouldn't bank on blanket loan forgiveness, but assuming your in stable and lucrative employment ... not impossible pushing into the market is a wise long term bet.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6944 by FlyHigh » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:54 pm

The thing is that if you bank on loan forgiveness, you have to keep loans with the govt which means a 6-8% rate, so if loan forgiveness doesn’t happen, you’re really putting a lot of faith in market growth to come out ahead, particularly as that 6-8% is already compounding on a very large chunk of change from Day 1.

I refi’d my loans a few years ago and was paying 4% on a 10 yr, so I was relatively confident that the “smart” play would be to just put all my extra cash in the market and wait out the term, but I just couldn’t get there, just feels so much better now that it’s gone, even though I’d likely be somewhat better off financially if I’d waited out the full term.
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Re: OT Thread, NOT Obsequious 2

Post #6945 by jester » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:00 pm

FlyHigh wrote:The thing is that if you bank on loan forgiveness, you have to keep loans with the govt which means a 6-8% rate, so if loan forgiveness doesn’t happen, you’re really putting a lot of faith in market growth to come out ahead, particularly as that 6-8% is already compounding on a very large chunk of change from Day 1.

I refi’d my loans a few years ago and was paying 4% on a 10 yr, so I was relatively confident that the “smart” play would be to just put all my extra cash in the market and wait out the term, but I just couldn’t get there, just feels so much better now that it’s gone, even though I’d likely be somewhat better off financially if I’d waited out the full term.


Yeah, student debt is basically dead money so I'd rather be rid of it. We basically swapped about 10K of my wife's remaining student loans for mortgage debt when we bought. And at 6-8, I'd be very hesitant not to pay that down.

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