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Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:15 pm
by FlyHigh
Funny that you cite soccer's World Cup. England, commonly thought to have the strongest national team at the time, did not send its squad to the 1930, 34, or 38 editions because it deemed the tournament to be beneath its notice.

EDIT: Are you not reading these quotes from players btw? Do you honestly think they will give a shit about a World Cup that's put on by an organization they already detest?

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:47 pm
by jester
FlyHigh wrote:Funny that you cite soccer's World Cup. England, commonly thought to have the strongest national team at the time, did not send its squad to the 1930, 34, or 38 editions because it deemed the tournament to be beneath its notice.


... you realize this buttresses my point, right? Create and commit to the tourney, and it will gain hold over time.

EDIT: Are you not reading these quotes from players btw? Do you honestly think they will give a shit about a World Cup that's put on by an organization they already detest?


This generation? Maybe not. 20 years from now? Of course, my theoretical tourney is an IIHF headed tourney, as opposed to NHL headed.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:59 pm
by FlyHigh
So, everybody is angry for 25 years and then once a generation or two passes through, maybe people will care about the World Cup of Hockey. I mean, yes, I agree on that point. Can't wait for World Cup 2040. So basically, eliminate a tournament that works and that everyone cares about. Instead, maybe, just maybe, in 25 years, we'll have a replacement tournament that people will care about. Oh, and by the way, we don't even know for sure that people will care about it, but they probably will. In 2040. Sounds like a great plan!

Also, it's naive/delusional to think that the NHL will punt on the Olympics and then give control of a marquee tournament to the IIHF, come on man.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:30 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
jester wrote:Is there, though? For starters, I know you're a soccer fan ... and the "uniquely special" nature of the Olympics collapses there. The NBA started sending it's players out of pure spite at the joke that Olympic basketball was ... and do people really care that much about Olympic basketball a couple decades later? Baseball? Football? Tennis? Golf?

The Olympics are uniquely special for the many sports that get zero attention outside of the Olympics. Olympic wrestling is uniquely special ... Olympic hockey/basketball/soccer is a fun tournament on the side of a much bigger pie.

Couldn't you argue the same applies to the NHL with the pie being hockey, and the slice being the NHL? In 2010 while Team USA was competing for gold, bars in Brooklyn were packed and that was an area where I struggled even to find casual Rangers/Islanders/Devils fans. And the ones I did were transplant Devils' fans out of New Jersey.

A large portion of the population clearly cared about those games; I tend to think it's because it wasn't just the Lidstrom and Datsyuk suspension for skipping the ASG (DET), or the Mike Peluso cover-up (NJD), or the Thrashers' relocation (ATL), or the Dollar Bill Blackhawks Black-out (CHI). It was just hockey being played for the sake of hockey by talented players (NOT VANDEVELDE), and it was extremely enjoyable.

jester wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:Funny that you cite soccer's World Cup. England, commonly thought to have the strongest national team at the time, did not send its squad to the 1930, 34, or 38 editions because it deemed the tournament to be beneath its notice.


... you realize this buttresses my point, right? Create and commit to the tourney, and it will gain hold over time.

Yeah... as long as there's a North America U23.6125 team the World Cup will struggle to have even a fraction of the credibility as the Olympic games do. And for all the chatter concerning risk of injury (slightly OT), the World Cup does nothing to address any of that.

http://www.thescore.com/news/1112566

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:42 pm
by FlyHigh
Re: RP's point, I remember going to a bar at 6 AM in Chicago for USA-Canada in 2014 and the whole street was crowded.

Somehow I doubt that even World Cup 2040 will generate that kind of buzz among casual sports fans.

World Cup 2060 on the other hand, that's an open question, especially if the IIHF organizes and not the NHL. And there's "no BS." Can't wait for the retirement home betting pool on that one.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:29 pm
by jester
The World Cup of hockey should feature national teams. Full stop. Should occur every four years without question, and without haggling over player involvement. Full stop. It should rotate host nation(s) on a regular basis.

This is not hard to accomplish, it just requires committing to it.

And, yes, national teams draw interest ... that is not and never will be an important calculation for the NHL owners. You can complain about that, but you also aren't 100s of million deep on an investment. And, let's be real clear, a lot of this is players wanting the best of all world's. I wonder how many players would agree to the Olympics if it were contingent on voiding their contract guarantee.

The Olympics just aren't the sacred cow they're being made out to be.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:43 pm
by jester
Rogers Pancreas wrote:And for all the chatter concerning risk of injury (slightly OT), the World Cup does nothing to address any of that.


I guarantee you there are numerous owners that are privately opposed to any sort of international competition, or, at the very least, wish they could fully oppose it. Mark Cuban, for example, has publicly spoken about his reservation with regard to allowing NBA players to compete internationally.

The difference with the World Cup, in theory, is that it puts the games outside the NHL schedule; creates less scheduling pressure during the season (injury risk rises with tired players); and doesn't leave injured players facing the stretch run and playoffs. But, yeah, there is no perfect solution with the injury risk.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:47 pm
by Hovercraft
:hillary: :trump:

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:56 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
jester wrote:The World Cup of hockey should feature national teams. Full stop. Should occur every four years without question, and without haggling over player involvement. Full stop. It should rotate host nation(s) on a regular basis.

This is not hard to accomplish, it just requires committing to it.

And, yes, national teams draw interest ... that is not and never will be an important calculation for the NHL owners. You can complain about that, but you also aren't 100s of million deep on an investment. And, let's be real clear, a lot of this is players wanting the best of all world's. I wonder how many players would agree to the Olympics if it were contingent on voiding their contract guarantee.

The Olympics just aren't the sacred cow they're being made out to be.

Sorry to be a bother, Jester. This just happens to be the most interesting conversation that's been had in the better part of two years.

Your vision of what the World Cup should be is basically what the Olympics are, except without the pain in the dick owners carrying on about what the world owes them. And I'm sure there are other franchises (owners) out there that are concerned about losing their golden goose to injuries, or just plain losing them (for an extended period of time). But only the NHL's owners have bitched like this. I haven't heard much coming out of the KHL, or the SHL, or Liiga. And those league, not franchises, LEAGUES are in a far more precarious situation than the NHL.

And I agree, the NHL isn't this sacred cow... if the true fans, and players alike, succumb to apathy the same way we all gave in to the fucking shoot-out. The NHL has proven it doesn't give a fuck about you or I. But my hope is players like Jake, and Ovechkin just say "fuck it", and then players like Giroux say "fuck it" because they don't want to see Team Canada spanked by their NHL kin.

http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/is-why ... f-our-time

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:09 pm
by FlyHigh
jester wrote:The World Cup of hockey should feature national teams. Full stop. Should occur every four years without question, and without haggling over player involvement. Full stop. It should rotate host nation(s) on a regular basis.

This is not hard to accomplish, it just requires committing to it.

And, yes, national teams draw interest ... that is not and never will be an important calculation for the NHL owners. You can complain about that, but you also aren't 100s of million deep on an investment. And, let's be real clear, a lot of this is players wanting the best of all world's. I wonder how many players would agree to the Olympics if it were contingent on voiding their contract guarantee.

The Olympics just aren't the sacred cow they're being made out to be.


Congratulations, you just described the Olympics!

In any case, Hover just won the argument.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:24 pm
by Kilgore Trout
As long as Flyers players don't get hurt, I don't give a shit what international tournaments there are.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:02 pm
by jester
FlyHigh wrote:
jester wrote:The World Cup of hockey should feature national teams. Full stop. Should occur every four years without question, and without haggling over player involvement. Full stop. It should rotate host nation(s) on a regular basis.

This is not hard to accomplish, it just requires committing to it.

And, yes, national teams draw interest ... that is not and never will be an important calculation for the NHL owners. You can complain about that, but you also aren't 100s of million deep on an investment. And, let's be real clear, a lot of this is players wanting the best of all world's. I wonder how many players would agree to the Olympics if it were contingent on voiding their contract guarantee.

The Olympics just aren't the sacred cow they're being made out to be.


Congratulations, you just described the Olympics!

In any case, Hover just won the argument.


Or the FIFA World Cup. Or the IIHF World Championship reimagined. Or any tournament. Which gets to the heart of the matter ... there's nothing especially unique about the Olympics, other than it's consistent locale of an authoritarian regime under the operation of a deeply corrupt institution.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:08 pm
by jester
Rogers Pancreas wrote:
jester wrote:The World Cup of hockey should feature national teams. Full stop. Should occur every four years without question, and without haggling over player involvement. Full stop. It should rotate host nation(s) on a regular basis.

This is not hard to accomplish, it just requires committing to it.

And, yes, national teams draw interest ... that is not and never will be an important calculation for the NHL owners. You can complain about that, but you also aren't 100s of million deep on an investment. And, let's be real clear, a lot of this is players wanting the best of all world's. I wonder how many players would agree to the Olympics if it were contingent on voiding their contract guarantee.

The Olympics just aren't the sacred cow they're being made out to be.

Sorry to be a bother, Jester. This just happens to be the most interesting conversation that's been had in the better part of two years.

Your vision of what the World Cup should be is basically what the Olympics are, except without the pain in the dick owners carrying on about what the world owes them. And I'm sure there are other franchises (owners) out there that are concerned about losing their golden goose to injuries, or just plain losing them (for an extended period of time). But only the NHL's owners have bitched like this. I haven't heard much coming out of the KHL, or the SHL, or Liiga. And those league, not franchises, LEAGUES are in a far more precarious situation than the NHL.

And I agree, the NHL isn't this sacred cow... if the true fans, and players alike, succumb to apathy the same way we all gave in to the fucking shoot-out. The NHL has proven it doesn't give a fuck about you or I. But my hope is players like Jake, and Ovechkin just say "fuck it", and then players like Giroux say "fuck it" because they don't want to see Team Canada spanked by their NHL kin.

http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/is-why ... f-our-time


... I wouldn't complain about shootouts while extolling the virtues of the Olympics.

No one involved in these negotiations really cares about you or I, RP. The NHL is concerned about itself. The IOC is concerned about itself. The players are concerned about themselves. There is zero altruism in any of these people's posturing.

Sports culture is vastly different in Europe, RP, and the financials involved are much different. Additionally, the Olympics are significantly less impactful on most of those leagues. Sweden and Finland fill their rosters with NHL players for the most part, for example. Same goes for the Czechs, etc. Interesting enough, lack of NHL participation will impact those leagues a good bit.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:38 pm
by dbr
Full meltdown on TSN radio in Toronto regarding the Leafs. Fucking great.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:47 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
Go, Bolts, Go!

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:44 am
by jester
Stevens getting a look at the job in LA. I'd put money on him doing well.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:02 pm
by FlyHigh
Oh interesting I was thinking the opposite based on his tenure here. Guess the theory is that working for Sutter would make him a better coach?

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:08 pm
by jester
FlyHigh wrote:Oh interesting I was thinking the opposite based on his tenure here. Guess the theory is that working for Sutter would make him a better coach?


Indeed. I firmly believe his primary flaw was lack of experience. He was very good at getting the team to play hard for him, but the team struggled with the details. As you might recall, he basically became a HC at both the AHL and NHL levels with no real apprenticeship. He assisted Barber briefly (a guy that was weak on the details himself), and then got promoted to assist Hitch the year he got fired.

So, presumably he got an opportunity to learn out there. He would not be the first (or last) coach to perform much better in his second job. Shit, we all watched one of the best current examples of it in baseball: Terry Francona.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:18 pm
by CantSeeColors
Belichick too

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:37 pm
by FlyHigh
Definitely makes sense, hope it works out for him, always seemed like a decent guy overall. Certainly has quite a challenge with that LAK roster if he does get the job, hopefully they would have some patience.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:27 pm
by Rogers Pancreas

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:37 pm
by dbr
With Mullen gone it'll be interesting to see who Hextall decides to hire.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:44 pm
by Hovercraft
Dubinsky just squished Crosby with 1 second left in the 3rd heading to OT. This game could get outta hand.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:47 pm
by MiD
this game already was crazyImage

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:14 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
I can't believe the refs didn't blow the play dead.

Shades of Thoreson on that shit.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:10 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
If Columbus is knocked out of the playoffs, the list of teams I can actively cheer for gets cut to one - Nashville.

This year can't fucking end fast enough.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:13 pm
by MiD
#cbj D Zach Werenski is out for remainder of series because of facial fractures

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:33 pm
by DeadPhish
Rogers Pancreas wrote:This year can't fucking end fast enough.


I thought they cancelled the playoffs this year?

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:23 pm
by dbr
Don't give Bettman any ideas

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:06 pm
by vonbonds
Anyone but NYR or Pit and I'm happy.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:58 pm
by Konecny HypeTrain Captain
if Washington loses to the Leafs in the first round that would be glorious, something about that team choking every year is hilarious.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:40 am
by Rogers Pancreas
I could live with seeing Lundqvist or Ovechkin and Backstrom winning the Cup. Marchand, not so much.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:00 am
by Boring Choice #2
where's the neg rep button when you need it?

Re: RE: Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:04 am
by MiD
Rogers Pancreas wrote:I could live with seeing Lundqvist or Ovechkin and Backstrom winning the Cup. Marchand, not so much.

So you were born in 2012?

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:34 am
by FlyHigh
Watching Cherry Hill Native Bobby Ryan do a Marchand on the Bruins was just glorious.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:36 pm
by CantSeeColors
Rogers Pancreas wrote:I could live with seeing Lundqvist or Ovechkin and Backstrom winning the Cup. Marchand, not so much.

If he promised to get another misspelled tattoo, I might be ok with it.

Re: RE: Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:07 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
MiD wrote:
Rogers Pancreas wrote:I could live with seeing Lundqvist or Ovechkin and Backstrom winning the Cup. Marchand, not so much.

So you were born in 2012?

Certain fanbases (i.e. Toronto, Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal) always manage to piss me off. Certain players (i.e. Stevens, Brodeur, Tucker, Kasparitis, Pilon) piss me off. Brands are irrelevant.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:24 am
by chaosof99
As it turns out today is international shit on the Blackhawks day. Who knew?

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:51 am
by CantSeeColors
Seven years later, lavi gets his revenge

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:25 am
by dbr
Good on him.

I hate Subban, but I would gladly take him.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:08 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
Kadri had a vintage Crosby dive goin' on. I was embarrassed for him.

Re: RE: Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:12 pm
by MiD
Rogers Pancreas wrote:Kadri had a vintage Crosby dive goin' on. I was embarrassed for him.

no, he was slashed by Niskanen

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
I'm aware that he was slashed. That does not excuse the theatrics, though.

Re: RE: Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:21 pm
by MiD
Rogers Pancreas wrote:I'm aware that he was slashed. That does not excuse the theatrics, though.

I don't know, that wasn't love tap

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:10 pm
by Hovercraft
Kadri hit on OV was pretty trashy

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:14 pm
by chaosof99
The Kings have indeed hired Stevens as their new head coach.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:55 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
I give him four years. Tops.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:06 pm
by Rogers Pancreas
Suck a fat dick, Toronto.

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:25 am
by GoneFullHextall
CantSeeColors wrote:Seven years later, lavi gets his revenge


he says "see, look what my teams can do with a real NHL goaltender against Chicago"

Re: News from Around the NHL 2

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:21 am
by dbr
Don't forget his defense in Nash. are miles ahead of what he had with us.

Nashville's defense fits Lavi's system perfectly.