I talk to myself about the Sixers

the tendon-cy to retire is natural.
now with even more memorial.
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Post #201 by CantSeeColors » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:25 pm

FlyHigh wrote:I dunno, POs still seem like a stretch to me, how many viable NBA starters are on the roster right now? 1?


Noel, embiid, at least their own #1 pick (TM Steve Coates), arguably Covington. Plus they've got a defense that's as a whole nearing top ten in the league and only trending better. Remember, 35 wins gets you in the picture in the east

edit: Saric is potentially a starter too, though odds are here's not in the picture next year

Seems like Lakers will probably get the top-5 pick this year so it stays protected, assuming it's unprotected in 2016? At least it's a nice asset and that's what the analytics guys seem to fetishize.


I'm reading its top three protected the two years following this year and then unprotected. Ideally its 6 or 7 this year but that's a huge piece regardless
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Post #202 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:31 pm

Really want the Sixers to get Mudiay in the draft, think he fits perfectly.

Like last years draft after the top 3 there is a dropoff. Okafor, Mudiay and D'Angelo Russell are your top three without a doubt it seems. Wouldn't mind any of them and if you can manage to get Russell and Mudiay if you're the Sixers well shit you might be on to something.
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Post #203 by CantSeeColors » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:44 pm

Towns is probably not a big dropoff from those guys.
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Post #204 by chaosof99 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:29 am

ESPN ranks the Sixers as the top team among the four major leagues in their use of Analytics. The Flyers are somewhere in the middle. The Eagles are better than that. The Phillies are last.
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Post #205 by FlyHigh » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:52 pm

This Sixers thing is so fascinating. Seems like Noel is definitely a keeper and if they hit on 2 of 3 of Embiid/Saric/their pick this year, they could be really good in a couple years. Plus they have like a 10% chance of getting the 6/7 this year and if not, it's not like it's guaranteed that the Lakers will be good next year and they have 2 more firsts this year as well.

I'm not a gigantic basketball fan per se, but if Hinkie actually pulls this off, seems like people's heads will be exploding around the basketball community.
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Post #206 by jester » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:56 pm

Oh, people are going to be eating a ton of crow if/when this pans out.
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Post #207 by CantSeeColors » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:39 pm

I have barely watched any actual basketball the past few years, but I find this team extremely fascinating. I think hinkie is really hitting it out of the park so far
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Post #208 by jester » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:04 pm

Yeah, if you appreciate analytics at all, the Sixers are the grand experiment.
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Post #209 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:07 pm

The crazy thing is, Brett Brown is really fucking good at his job. The fact that this talent lacking team has played so many close games is incredible. The Sixers can seriously turn into a dynasty if they hit 2-3 more of these draft picks, Hinkie for president. Also don't be surprised if they throw a max contract Kawhi Leonard this offseason whether he signs is a different story.
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Post #210 by jester » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:27 am

I suspect they'll have a tough time signing folks until they improve a bit.
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Post #211 by CantSeeColors » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:34 am

If people are paying attention they should want to come here like Werth did with the nats. They could sneak into the playoffs next year and make the leap after that
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Post #212 by jester » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:53 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:If people are paying attention they should want to come here like Werth did with the nats. They could sneak into the playoffs next year and make the leap after that


Well, let's not kid ourselves, the stupid money the Nats threw at Werth had a big role to play there. Can't do that in the NBA.
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Post #213 by CantSeeColors » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:50 pm

jester wrote:Well, let's not kid ourselves, the stupid money the Nats threw at Werth had a big role to play there. Can't do that in the NBA.


They could throw some silly money at an RFA that might not live up to it until year 3 of the deal. With the cap about to jump I wouldn't be surprised if they did that
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Post #214 by jester » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:22 am

CantSeeColors wrote:They could throw some silly money at an RFA that might not live up to it until year 3 of the deal. With the cap about to jump I wouldn't be surprised if they did that


There are rules, though. For a marquee player, it isn't like you can outbid the competition.
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Post #215 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sat May 09, 2015 4:18 am

[YOUTUBE]roKwNV64LYI[/YOUTUBE]

LeBron answered that question pretty damn good actually.
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Post #216 by LTrain » Sun May 10, 2015 5:00 pm

He did a great job basically calling that reporter out on his bullshit.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #217 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:50 pm

Hinkie is about to start wheeling and dealing LET THE RIDE BEGIN
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #218 by Bow Tie » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:27 pm

RIP Timo and Mason's GAA wrote:Hinkie is about to start wheeling and dealing LET THE RIDE BEGIN



...and?
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #219 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:08 pm

He did the smart thing and took BPA, one of Noel Embiid or Okafor is traded in the future. I think it's Okafor if Embiid can stay healthy.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #220 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:24 am

Hinkie for prez
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #221 by chaosof99 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:05 am

In the wake of his recent passing, can someone explain why Moses Malone's number isn't retired by the Sixers?
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #222 by jester » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:17 am

Because he was only in Philly for 5 seasons, and one of those was as a hobbled veteran. They shouldn't retire his number.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #223 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:45 pm

Mike D'Antonio hired by the sixers as an associate head coach. Larry Brown still telling the Sixers to get Iverson involved because they have no leadership. I wouldn't mind that tbh Iverson seems to have matured after nobody wanted to give him a job anymore. Bringing AI in to just be around the young guys might be a good move.

Either way the Sixers need a veteran on the roster just to mentor the young kids or this will never go anywhere.

Pray for Ben Simmons.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #224 by jester » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:14 pm

... I don't think I'd ever want AI around an impressionable bunch. He may have matured, but he was such a primadonna fuckup off the court as a player.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #225 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:36 pm

Sixers are going to trade Okafor and I will be happy as fuck when it happens. He's lazy, doesn't want to play here, liability on D and honestly I am not that impressed with his on the court game as well. Looks like another Holiday situation good player on a bad team looks like a great player.

Embiid news is coming out and he's off the boot and doing basic basketball activities. Embiid and Noel work together, but Okafor and either don't.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #226 by jester » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:29 pm

So, the Sixers managed to get me to care... and then threw it away just when it got to the interesting part.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #227 by CantSeeColors » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:41 pm

Exactly how I feel. I'd be surprised if this wasn't Harris setting things up to sell the team
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #228 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:53 am

Ehhh they are in really good position, I think you see them make a huge trade this offseason and then push hard after FA's. Wouldn't be surprised if you see Okafor+our first to Indy for Paul George and then make a run at Rondo/Conley+1 in FA.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #229 by CantSeeColors » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:16 am

Going after rondo is exactly the type of thing these new guys would do that would completely kill all the hope I had from hinkie
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #230 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:24 am

Exactly. Sixers were an experiment in committed rationality and the long game.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #231 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:52 am

jester wrote:Exactly. Sixers were an experiment in committed rationality and the long game.


I think the problem is that there is mounting evidence that Hinkie and the Sixers talent evaluators sucked at actual talent evaluation and the process of team-building.

I mean, we don't have to go through move-by-move, but they have been in full on tank for 3 NBA seasons. Yet in that time, they have not acquired a single building-block piece. They have consistently spent high draft picks on players who may be borderline obsolete in the modern NBA. Their best asset right now is Okafor whose best comp may be Enes Kanter (the 4th or 5th best player on a contender). We can also note that they've spent their 3 highest picks the last 3 years on players who all play the same position.

I didn't really have an issue with "The Process", but the fact that they've been doing it for 3 years and have absolutely nothing to show for it (not even competent rotation players) is a pretty damning indictment of the front office IMO.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Hinkie also tanked relationships with agents throughout the league which is just flat-out stupid. Apparently Porzingis (basically the perfect big-man for the modern NBA) wouldn't even work out for the Sixers and wanted nothing to do with them.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #232 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:48 am

I think it's far too early to judge them on talent evaluation (these are all young players). It's also worth noting that the dice hadn't rolled right for them (yet). Luck is part of it. The building block piece(s) may in fact be here, they just haven't arrived and/or reached potential ceiling.

The personal relationship side is a damning reality to this, but I just don't see Colangelo being the guy to stick to the analytics guns. Not to mention, as many far more invested NBA followers have noted, his track record is not great.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #233 by CantSeeColors » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:56 am

You're not paying attention if you think they've shown poor talent evaluation. They've scooped up legit bench pieces in the second round of the past two drafts (Grant and Holmes). Covington is a legit starter on the wing. You can build an entire defense around Noel - they were like 13th in the league in D Rating last year without a whole lot of help around him. Jury's out on Okafor, but he put up borderline historic offensive numbers for a teenager and he's got years to figure out the defense.

They seem to have nothing to show for it because they've gotten shit luck or deliberately played the long game. How much different does the team look right now if the lottery balls bounce differently and Towns is putting up double doubles every night? Embiid was the risk you take for the chance at a true generational talent. Saric couldn't realistically come over until this summer. Last year, they missed out on the Heat pick at 11 and the OKC pick at 19 by a game on each pick. The Laker pick is a big piece that we're still waiting on. Fact is, Hinkie piled up a huge quiver of arrows and then wasn't allowed to see it through.

The agents thing is overblown, too. They had meetings setup with Leonard and Butler last summer before both re-signed with their teams.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #234 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:08 am

I'm not sure the agents thing is overblown ... there's a lot of smoke there. That being said, much of that would just be noise if/when they start to get competitive and are putting out the contract offers.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #235 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:39 pm

To go point by point:

-- Covington has started 47 games this year and is shooting under 35% from 3 and under 40% overall. He'll be 26 early next season. He's decent and the 3-and-D is theoretically valuable, but at this point, is he starting on good (or even decent) team? I'm doubtful.

-- Holmes and Grant are okay although it's worth noting that Holmes is a PF and we've drafted 4 big men in the 1st rounds of the past 3 drafts (including 3 in the top-6) and will probably draft one this year (assuming Simmons-Ingram go 1-2). Those guys might be rotation players at some point. Maybe. Ironically one of his better late-round finds was supposed to be KJ McDaniels and then they tried to screw him in contract negotiations, so he told them he wouldn't re-up and they had to deal him.

-- Noel and Okafor can't play together, so you can't talk about both of their attributes in a vacuum. And if/when they try to trade one, it's not like they'll be able to demand 100 cents on the dollar. And you can't deny that the game is trending away from both of them. Your best hope for Okafor is probably Brook Lopez (or Kanter), guys that cannot be foundation pieces on contenders. I'd personally keep Noel and surround him with shooters, but who knows?

-- The opportunities to pick up significant talents have been there and they haven't taken advantage. They took Noel over CJ McCollum and MCW (who was 22 at draft-time, old for a team that was about to tear everything down) over Adams, Giannis and Schroeder. Okafor went over Porzingis, Mudiay, Winslow, Booker, etc.

-- Said Lakers pick is fine, but they won't see it till next year barring some extreme luck and in the meantime have had 18 months of horrendous PG play which has undoubtedly hampered the development if their bigs. Remember when everyone was excited about Ish Smith? (Who by the way they gave away for free and then traded two 2nd round picks for). Imagine if they had an actual, competent PG. Yet Hinkie had shown no inclination to find/develop one in 3 years.

My biggest problem is that there's no coherent overall plan. I mean, they seem to be hoping to finish in the top-2 and get a superstar or hope for a James Harden situation (which wouldn't have occurred if OKC's owners weren't such cheapskates). And in the meantime, just suck continuously. At some point, you need more than that.

I support tanking within reason, but their whole attitude has been "unless this move will make us a title contender we won't do it." Coming off last year, I think it would have been perfectly defensible to build your D around Noel and work on surrounding him with shooters. But instead they've regressed and wasted a year of development for everybody.

Also, I'm not getting excited about meetings with Leonard and Butler. Everybody knew they were resigning.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #236 by CantSeeColors » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:10 pm

FlyHigh wrote:I support tanking within reason, but their whole attitude has been "unless this move will make us a title contender we won't do it." Coming off last year, I think it would have been perfectly defensible to build your D around Noel and work on surrounding him with shooters. But instead they've regressed and wasted a year of development for everybody.


Don't really have time to go point by point, but this ignores the reality of the situation. Where are said shooters coming from? Rumor has it that Hinkie wanted Russell more than anyone, but nothing he could do about that. Rumor also has it that ownership wouldn't let him draft Porzingis (and given how they've acted lately, I believe it). Who else are you drafting? Hezonja?

They just haven't really had the opportunity to do it. One of the guys you list as wishing they had was Booker. He'd have been an excellent pick as a shooter to go with Noel. But like I said, shit luck kept us from getting that Heat pick, which was our chance to get one of these shooters.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #237 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:43 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:I support tanking within reason, but their whole attitude has been "unless this move will make us a title contender we won't do it." Coming off last year, I think it would have been perfectly defensible to build your D around Noel and work on surrounding him with shooters. But instead they've regressed and wasted a year of development for everybody.


Don't really have time to go point by point, but this ignores the reality of the situation. Where are said shooters coming from? Rumor has it that Hinkie wanted Russell more than anyone, but nothing he could do about that. Rumor also has it that ownership wouldn't let him draft Porzingis (and given how they've acted lately, I believe it). Who else are you drafting? Hezonja?

They just haven't really had the opportunity to do it. One of the guys you list as wishing they had was Booker. He'd have been an excellent pick as a shooter to go with Noel. But like I said, shit luck kept us from getting that Heat pick, which was our chance to get one of these shooters.


Why not trade down? Who knows how reliable this is, but Bill Simmons has consistently said that the Celtics offered the Sixers a boatload of picks (including at least one of BK's unprotected picks) to move down. Everybody going in knew that it was a deep draft with only one stand-out superstar prospect. All the concerns about Okafor (lack of mobility and defense mainly) were right there before the draft.

And look, they've been "unlucky" at points, but luck is just a part of the game. The fact is that the Sixers burned the house down for 3 years straight and have very little (if anything) to show for it. When guys like Holmes, Covington and Grant are the "success stories" after 3 years, that's a major problem.

Let's perform a fun thought experiment and say that Embiid is healthy next year and that Saric comes over. How exactly are you rotating those four big-men? Who exactly is throwing them the ball? Rondo? Brandon Jennings? Dellevadova? Oh, and there's no way the "success story" Richaun Holmes is getting playing time with those 4 in front of him.

The current NBA is about having guys that can get into the lane and shooting. After three years of this experiment, do the Sixers have anyone that can get into the lane? Do they have anyone that can shoot?
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #238 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:03 pm

FlyHigh wrote:And look, they've been "unlucky" at points, but luck is just a part of the game. The fact is that the Sixers burned the house down for 3 years straight and have very little (if anything) to show for it.


See, I don't really see the logic in this. They have a lot of assets ... they will have a lot of chips for years because of Hinkie if they don't try and cash them all in for this coming season. They aren't a good team *right now*, but it isn't difficult (from what I can tell) to see them becoming a rather good team in the very near future because of these moves.

The primary critique of what you are saying here is that it seems to run counter to the entire point of Hinkie (at this stage) ... he was not worried about right now. Now, is there a point where if the dice don't roll your way you need to move on. Perhaps, but that isn't necessarily rational. That's what scares the shit out of the NBA and, to an extent, other leagues.+ If Hinkie proved that winning was potentially counter-productive ... that's a major problem with casual fans.

+ Basketball is the only sport where I think this strategy makes sense to this degree. One or two elite players is all you need to be competitive in the NBA, which simply isn't the case in other sports.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #239 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:17 pm

jester wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:And look, they've been "unlucky" at points, but luck is just a part of the game. The fact is that the Sixers burned the house down for 3 years straight and have very little (if anything) to show for it.


See, I don't really see the logic in this. They have a lot of assets ... they will have a lot of chips for years because of Hinkie if they don't try and cash them all in for this coming season. They aren't a good team *right now*, but it isn't difficult (from what I can tell) to see them becoming a rather good team in the very near future because of these moves.

The primary critique of what you are saying here is that it seems to run counter to the entire point of Hinkie (at this stage) ... he was not worried about right now. Now, is there a point where if the dice don't roll your way you need to move on. Perhaps, but that isn't necessarily rational. That's what scares the shit out of the NBA and, to an extent, other leagues.+ If Hinkie proved that winning was potentially counter-productive ... that's a major problem with casual fans.

+ Basketball is the only sport where I think this strategy makes sense to this degree. One or two elite players is all you need to be competitive in the NBA, which simply isn't the case in other sports.


This is where I completely disagree with you. There is absolutely zero evidence that the Sixers may become a good team in the near/medium-term. The two best players in this draft play a position, "big-man" for lack of a better word, where the Sixers have already spent 4 top-10 picks in the last 3 years. Their two best players literally can't play together (everybody in the NBA knows this). If Embiid ever gets health he probably can't play with either one either. Everybody is hanging their hat on this Lakers pick. Let's say that that pick turns into the No.6 overall pick next year. That would essentially mean that Hinkie traded the No.11 overall pick in 2013 (MCW) for the No.6 overall pick in 2017. Pardon me if I'm not going nuts over that move.

I also think you're missing a nuance in the critique. Tanking is fine and goodness knows Hinkie was very good at it. There problem is that there is zero evidence that he's good at any other aspect of running an NBA team and an increasing amount of evidence that he was in fact very bad at it.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #240 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:35 pm

FlyHigh wrote:This is where I completely disagree with you. There is absolutely zero evidence that the Sixers may become a good team in the near/medium-term. The two best players in this draft play a position, "big-man" for lack of a better word, where the Sixers have already spent 4 top-10 picks in the last 3 years. Their two best players literally can't play together (everybody in the NBA knows this). If Embiid ever gets health he probably can't play with either one either. Everybody is hanging their hat on this Lakers pick. Let's say that that pick turns into the No.6 overall pick next year. That would essentially mean that Hinkie traded the No.11 overall pick in 2013 (MCW) for the No.6 overall pick in 2017. Pardon me if I'm not going nuts over that move.

I also think you're missing a nuance in the critique. Tanking is fine and goodness knows Hinkie was very good at it. There problem is that there is zero evidence that he's good at any other aspect of running an NBA team and an increasing amount of evidence that he was in fact very bad at it.


The best part of Hinkie, from what I could tell, was that he was not married to any player short of a franchise caliber player ... and he tended to make pretty good trades by the measure of pretty much everyone. So fixating on the current roster is something of a red herring. If they didn't work out ... they'd be moved (MCW) for other assets/parts. So, yeah, the big man situation is what it is, but that derived from a BPA approach with an understanding that player A, B, or C may or may not end up sticking.

All of that is refreshing to me. It's knowing when to fold and when to hold, and not giving a damn about the negative optics of constantly folding.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #241 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:44 pm

jester wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:This is where I completely disagree with you. There is absolutely zero evidence that the Sixers may become a good team in the near/medium-term. The two best players in this draft play a position, "big-man" for lack of a better word, where the Sixers have already spent 4 top-10 picks in the last 3 years. Their two best players literally can't play together (everybody in the NBA knows this). If Embiid ever gets health he probably can't play with either one either. Everybody is hanging their hat on this Lakers pick. Let's say that that pick turns into the No.6 overall pick next year. That would essentially mean that Hinkie traded the No.11 overall pick in 2013 (MCW) for the No.6 overall pick in 2017. Pardon me if I'm not going nuts over that move.

I also think you're missing a nuance in the critique. Tanking is fine and goodness knows Hinkie was very good at it. There problem is that there is zero evidence that he's good at any other aspect of running an NBA team and an increasing amount of evidence that he was in fact very bad at it.


The best part of Hinkie, from what I could tell, was that he was not married to any player short of a franchise caliber player ... and he tended to make pretty good trades by the measure of pretty much everyone. So fixating on the current roster is something of a red herring. If they didn't work out ... they'd be moved (MCW) for other assets/parts. So, yeah, the big man situation is what it is, but that derived from a BPA approach with an understanding that player A, B, or C may or may not end up sticking.

All of that is refreshing to me. It's knowing when to fold and when to hold, and not giving a damn about the negative optics of constantly folding.


So to be clear, we are essentially fine with 10 win teams for the next 10 years in the hope that in one of those years, the Sixers will draft a superstar?
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #242 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:00 pm

FlyHigh wrote:So to be clear, we are essentially fine with 10 win teams for the next 10 years in the hope that in one of those years, the Sixers will draft a superstar?


Well, I don't actually care about the Sixers ... so, yeah. But, again, that is what I found appealing about it. It was a total commitment to rationality above all. If your goal is to win a championship, what is the best path to get the necessary players to make that viable? Stockpiling draft picks at the front of the draft. It certainly isn't the only way, but over the long haul it's going to have a higher degree of expected success than getting stuck in the wash-rinse-repeat cycle of the middling teams, and praying that when your team finally sucks you happen to suck in a year where there's a savior waiting for you in the draft. One method is based on dumb luck, the other is based on planning and playing the odds.

The problem with gambling, however, is that you don't always win. The good thing about gambling with the draft in a sport like basketball, is that you only really need to hit once or twice to get where you want to go.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #243 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:32 pm

jester wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:So to be clear, we are essentially fine with 10 win teams for the next 10 years in the hope that in one of those years, the Sixers will draft a superstar?


Well, I don't actually care about the Sixers ... so, yeah. But, again, that is what I found appealing about it. It was a total commitment to rationality above all. If your goal is to win a championship, what is the best path to get the necessary players to make that viable? Stockpiling draft picks at the front of the draft. It certainly isn't the only way, but over the long haul it's going to have a higher degree of expected success than getting stuck in the wash-rinse-repeat cycle of the middling teams, and praying that when your team finally sucks you happen to suck in a year where there's a savior waiting for you in the draft. One method is based on dumb luck, the other is based on planning and playing the odds.

The problem with gambling, however, is that you don't always win. The good thing about gambling with the draft in a sport like basketball, is that you only really need to hit once or twice to get where you want to go.


And that's fine, but even when you hit that lottery, you need to have competent management around. Look at Cleveland with Lebron, Toronto w/ Bosh, Denver/NYK with Melo, New Orleans with Paul and now Davis, Cleveland to some extent with Harden, Minnesota with Love, etc.

You can go back through history and find nearly countless examples of teams winning that lottery and still blowing it. Outside of tanking, Hinkie has been an atrocious GM. Say we got a superstar. I had no faith in Hinkie to develop a winning culture or to surround him with other good players.

I think you also have a new dynamic where Philly is an incredibly unattractive destination for guys around the league. I personally think that matters to some degree, you don't want a guy to be drafted here and think, "oh shit", which is clearly the reaction that Okafor had.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #244 by jester » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:02 pm

Outside of tanking, we never got the opportunity to judge Hinkie. That's kind of the point. He could have been terrible, he could have been great.

The moment the Sixers had a developing elite nucleus, they would have been a very desirable location. Again, the time to judge this wasn't here yet.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #245 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:41 pm

jester wrote:Outside of tanking, we never got the opportunity to judge Hinkie. That's kind of the point. He could have been terrible, he could have been great.

The moment the Sixers had a developing elite nucleus, they would have been a very desirable location. Again, the time to judge this wasn't here yet.


Eh, we can agree to disagree a bit. I think that as a talent evaluator, he was trending much more towards "terrible" than "great."
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #246 by CantSeeColors » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:47 pm

He was also phenomenal at trading. Look at how he fleeced the Kings last year. Getting literally anything of value for MCW was a fantastic example of selling high, too

More importantly, do you realize that most of your arguments are boiling down to drafting for fit over best player?
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #247 by FlyHigh » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:35 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:He was also phenomenal at trading. Look at how he fleeced the Kings last year. Getting literally anything of value for MCW was a fantastic example of selling high, too

More importantly, do you realize that most of your arguments are boiling down to drafting for fit over best player?


In the NBA, unless you are drafting a superstar prospect, drafting for fit makes a lot more sense than it does in the NHL/NFL/MLB because on-court compatibility.

The team is exponentially worse than it was 3 years ago and has no assets of significant value outside of its own pick and LA's. So basically three years gone for a pick that will probably slide to next year and may not be top-5.

Of course I also think the Coanegelos will be a disaster. Feel bad for Sixers fans (I follow the league more generally).
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #248 by jester » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:08 am

Drafting for fit makes a lot more sense ... assuming you give a damn about winning games. If you don't ...
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #249 by CantSeeColors » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:26 am

FlyHigh wrote:
CantSeeColors wrote:He was also phenomenal at trading. Look at how he fleeced the Kings last year. Getting literally anything of value for MCW was a fantastic example of selling high, too

More importantly, do you realize that most of your arguments are boiling down to drafting for fit over best player?


In the NBA, unless you are drafting a superstar prospect, drafting for fit makes a lot more sense than it does in the NHL/NFL/MLB because on-court compatibility.


Fit is pretty irrelevant until you find the guy you need to fit around.

The team is exponentially worse than it was 3 years ago and has no assets of significant value outside of its own pick and LA's. So basically three years gone for a pick that will probably slide to next year and may not be top-5.

Of course I also think the Coanegelos will be a disaster. Feel bad for Sixers fans (I follow the league more generally).


Exactly what Jester said. This team is no further from winning a championship than it was when Hinkie arrived, so depending on how you're defining it, they're really not any worse, and are probably significantly better in terms of assets collected. Noel, Okafor, and Saric are all good assets that could be part of a very good team some day. Embiid is the ultimate wildcard. To say they've got nothing to show for the three years of losing (the first of which was a pre-Hinkie roster anyway) is pretty misleading.
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Re: I talk to myself about the Sixers

Post #250 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Tue May 17, 2016 9:16 pm

We did it boys

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