0.00% Effort Game Day Thread.

[dbr]

If the season wasn't over now, it is now.

[Rogers Pancreas]

This team has 17 goals (through 70 games) from VandeVelde, Bellemare, Lyubimov, Gordon, and Weise.

There are 96 players in this league that have scored that many THEMSELVES before tonight.

The best teams in the league have 10 or more 10 goal scorers. We have 6. FUCKING. 6.

Fucking pathetic.

[FlyHigh]

That escalated quickly, yikes. Also had a random thought, I bet the Flyers protect MacDonald for expansion and that they signed Manning for 2 years so that they can use him to fulfill their exposure requirements; can't wait for the meltdown over that one. That plus resigning VdV would be fun. Already halfway there with the Neuvirth/PEB extensions.

[vonbonds]

How dare you park your tank on top of our tank!

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

Remember when we had like 7 20+ goal scorers that one year and I think Upshall had like 17, good times.

[GoneFullHextall]

I want 2 new goalies next year.
I am done with both of them.
fire the entire coaching staff as well.
they are really going to have to take a good hard look at the core of this team and figure out if it is good enough. 1 playoff series win in 6 years.
unless you want to chalk it up to shit bad luck again. fuck that goddamn noise.

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

The core doesn't work, but the new core being the defenders and young goalies may. We still lack NHL players in the bot 6 and half the Dmen.

[DeadPhish]

Backup goalie = guaranteed loss.

[CantSeeColors]

That escalated quickly, yikes. Also had a random thought, I bet the Flyers protect MacDonald for expansion and that they signed Manning for 2 years so that they can use him to fulfill their exposure requirements; can't wait for the meltdown over that one. That plus resigning VdV would be fun. Already halfway there with the Neuvirth/PEB extensions.

If hextall wanted to bring VDV back, he'd have done it already. He's got a really strong track record, and he's not going to make these two mistakes

What really amuses me is that the people freaking out the most now are the same ones who defended the Richards and carter trades. This is the core you got out of those trades, and this is exactly what was obviously going to happen when you hitch your wagons to a forward core that was too young to compete before the defense you had then retired

[FlyHigh]

Eh I think that's pretty harsh, that 11-12 team was really good and I'd be curious to see what would have happened if they had had Pronger for the playoff run that year. Also 3 of the 4 major pieces from those trades (Schenn exempted) have been core pieces here pretty much since Day 1. 12-13 the bottom fell out a bit, but I think it's important to remember that A) Pronger injury screwed things up and B) the goaltending they got that year was horrific, possibly worse than this year.

I do increasingly think they'll protect AMac. They apparently see him as a solid No.3 guy and 5 mill isn't a ton to pay for a No.3 these days.

[CantSeeColors]

Eh I think that's pretty harsh, that 11-12 team was really good and I'd be curious to see what would have happened if they had had Pronger for the playoff run that year. Also 3 of the 4 major pieces from those trades (Schenn exempted) have been core pieces here pretty much since Day 1. 12-13 the bottom fell out a bit, but I think it's important to remember that A) Pronger injury screwed things up and B) the goaltending they got that year was horrific, possibly worse than this year.

I do increasingly think they'll protect AMac. They apparently see him as a solid No.3 guy and 5 mill isn't a ton to pay for a No.3 these days.

And look where that's gotten them. If they were going to rebuild around 20-22 year old forwards at that time, they needed to move on from Pronger and Timonen too. The fact that you can only point to one good year following that significant a trade is pretty telling, imo.

[FlyHigh]

Eh, they also had an older Briere and signed Jagr. I mean, I'm sure that "cultural" considerations played a role, but I think that they thought that those trades (plus the insane Bryz contract) would help propel them into remaining contenders for a couple of years before Pronger and Kimmo started to decline in earnest.

I dunno, Holmgren deserves a ton of criticism for various moves over the years, but I don't really hold those trades against him in hindsight (outside of screwing Carter over pretty hard cause he had taken a big discount on that deal). I mean, if those moves hadn't happened, are the 2011-2015 Flyers really any better off? I also think that you have to give him some slack for the Pronger injury. I mean, in June 2011, he had been banged up in 2010-11, but in 2010 he was one of the 3 or 4 best defensemen in the league and there hadn't been much sign of decline; certainly no indication that his career would abruptly end in November 2011.

[Hovercraft]

Yeah I have no problem with those deals. Simmonds, Voracek and Couturier are all have pretty unique skillsets. Holmgren also tried the Weber offer sheet to fill the Pronger void too.

[jester]

In a vacuum, the deals were not all that bad. The context of how it came to that was moronic, and, as noted, the roster was poorly setup in a halfway house between rebuild and win now.

[FlyHigh]

You had Voracek/Giroux/Simmonds/JVR entering prime years (Simmonds had 28 goals that year), Hartnell in his prime, Jagr, Briere at the tail end, etc. Schenn was also supposedly the "world's best player not in the NHL" (the Jiri Dopita Memorial Award) at that point. I think it's a bit disingenuous to portray those deals as some kind of big rebuild, I think they just wanted to pivot away from Carter/Richards as the forward core for whatever reason.

Also, who knows exactly how much they knew/predicted about the Richards decline that was coming, but from a cold-blooded asset management standpoint, Holmgren deserves some credit for selling right at the peak of his value.

In any case, plenty of other sticks that we can all agree to use to beat Holmgren with.

[Kilgore Trout]

In a vacuum, the deals were not all that bad. The context of how it came to that was moronic, and, as noted, the roster was poorly setup in a halfway house between rebuild and win now.

I mean, in retrospect, just getting something for Ritchie moments before the bottom fell out on his career was pretty fortuitous.

[jester]

I mean, in retrospect, just getting something for Ritchie moments before the bottom fell out on his career was pretty fortuitous.

This is true, but I suspect the organization mismanaged shit in advance of that which contributed to it ... also, he actually started out quite well in LA and then had some concussions as I recall and was never quite the same (not the first). So, there's a lot there. In the process, however, they also jettisoned Carter as he was becoming a much better overall player.

That being said, my larger problem is that the organization allowed a toxic situation to develop largely due to poor personality management.

[Rogers Pancreas]

In a vacuum, the deals were not all that bad. The context of how it came to that was moronic, and, as noted, the roster was poorly setup in a halfway house between rebuild and win now.

That Bryz contract was the WTF moment that kicked it all off.

[GoneFullHextall]

Yeah I have no problem with those deals. Simmonds, Voracek and Couturier are all have pretty unique skillsets. Holmgren also tried the Weber offer sheet to fill the Pronger void too.

looking at the prospects that the Flyers have acquired since Nashville matched that OS, it is pretty clear we all should be thankful the Preds matched.

[dbr]

Imagine if we had held onto Richards and Carter. I can't imagine us having any of the prospects we currently have. Holmgren would still be here. Lavi would be gone by now.

[JLHockeyKnight]

I mean, in retrospect, just getting something for Ritchie moments before the bottom fell out on his career was pretty fortuitous.

This is true, but I suspect the organization mismanaged shit in advance of that which contributed to it ... also, he actually started out quite well in LA and then had some concussions as I recall and was never quite the same (not the first). So, there's a lot there. In the process, however, they also jettisoned Carter as he was becoming a much better overall player.

That being said, my larger problem is that the organization allowed a toxic situation to develop largely due to poor personality management.

Richards was a heavy drinker (obvious by all the photos that appears online) and apparently he dogged it at practice. Mix that with the physical nature of his play, and the signs were all there. From the six degrees from my buddy through the media to the Flyers organization, I was told Flyers management felt he was gonna bottom out around 30, so the Flyers bailed.

I'm sure the concussions didn't help, but I still think he wasn't going to make it far into his 30's still playing the way he did when he was younger, and with that contract...woo.

[JLHockeyKnight]

In a vacuum, the deals were not all that bad. The context of how it came to that was moronic, and, as noted, the roster was poorly setup in a halfway house between rebuild and win now.

That Bryz contract was the WTF moment that kicked it all off.

That one killed me when it happened. I was pretty excited and high on Bob and was like "we have a potentially all star goalie developing" then Bryz comes along and I knew Bob was gone. It's amazing how many solid to great players over the past 20 years have been drafted by the Flyers but jettisoned early in their career without being given much of a chance. I've always felt the Flyers have some of the best scouts and really know how to draft...we just don't know how to use the players when we get them. It's like being born with a 12 inch cock and being celibate. I'm really hoping Hextall turns the tide on that trend...time will tell.

[Kilgore Trout]

Richards was a heavy drinker (obvious by all the photos that appears online) and apparently he dogged it at practice. Mix that with the physical nature of his play, and the signs were all there. From the six degrees from my buddy through the media to the Flyers organization, I was told Flyers management felt he was gotten bottom out around 30, so the Flyers bailed.

Yep, while "dry island" and all that was a little silly, I think its pretty clear the organization saw the cliff coming and bailed on Richards at the right time.

[jester]

I mean, in retrospect, just getting something for Ritchie moments before the bottom fell out on his career was pretty fortuitous.

This is true, but I suspect the organization mismanaged shit in advance of that which contributed to it ... also, he actually started out quite well in LA and then had some concussions as I recall and was never quite the same (not the first). So, there's a lot there. In the process, however, they also jettisoned Carter as he was becoming a much better overall player.

That being said, my larger problem is that the organization allowed a toxic situation to develop largely due to poor personality management.

Richards was a heavy drinker (obvious by all the photos that appears online) and apparently he dogged it at practice. Mix that with the physical nature of his play, and the signs were all there. From the six degrees from my buddy through the media to the Flyers organization, I was told Flyers management felt he was gonna bottom out around 30, so the Flyers bailed.

I'm sure the concussions didn't help, but I still think he wasn't going to make it far into his 30's still playing the way he did when he was younger, and with that contract...woo.

I'm not sure one can do casually conflate stuff on social media to heavy drinking ... though, obviously the organization felt there was a problem there (no doubt, Holmgren's understandable biases as a recovered alcoholic are pertinent here). That being said, Richards was not on some island with his drinking, and I find it difficult to believe it was that bad given the level he played at.

Additionally, as you note, there was his style of play. He was a smaller dude, less athletic than the majority of the NHL, and played as hard a game as he could. This leads into the next problem with Richards ... painkillers. Again, he is far from alone as a professional athlete to develop a painkiller problem (potentially). When did that start, and how did that impact his game?

All of this I would bring back to bad people management by the Flyers. They fed Richards' ego (the next Clarke), gave him the C very young, a huge contract, etc. How different are things if Knuble or Timonen gets named captain? Then you have the whole Lavi personality clash.

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh man. Knuble should've been the Captain, I was so certain of that.

[jester]

Both he and Timonen we're obvious, non-marketing driven choices at the time. Team was just in a massive rush to anoint Richards.

[FlyHigh]

At least they didn't repeat that mistake with Gi.....oh, wait, they did.

[CantSeeColors]

Once again, timonen was the obvious choice over the small, possibly-plays-too-hard-for-his-body center, and they passed over him a second time

[jester]

At least Giroux is capable of handling the media responsibility.

[Hovercraft]

I still feel like the C has been a bit of a burden for Giroux.

[Rogers Pancreas]

It absolutely is. With our dumb-fuck group of B-list bloggers disguised as journalists,Giroux's constantly being scrutinized for not netting 80/90 points. And for any forward that's used to scoring, you have to believe that brings additional pressure at a time when they're already pressing. It's not a good situation.

[Kilgore Trout]

It absolutely is. With our dumb-fuck group of B-list bloggers disguised as journalists,Giroux's constantly being scrutinized for not netting 80/90 points. And for any forward that's used to scoring, you have to believe that brings additional pressure at a time when they're already pressing. It's not a good situation.

Add on that it also means every mouth breather in the stands (and, lord knows, this fan base it made consists primarily of them) gets on him for the same reasons.

[CantSeeColors]

If only we had a 30 goal center also in the lineup to share the load. I dunno, maybe someone like Jeff carter

[FlyHigh]

D-zone coverage has been horrific in this game, have lost track of how many times the Canes have just walked into open shots from the slot.

[CantSeeColors]

D-zone coverage has been horrific in this game, have lost track of how many times the Canes have just walked into open shots from the slot.

What percentage of posts in this thread convey this exact thought? Seems like it's been the same shit every night with these guys

[Hovercraft]

Got a party box booked for Phantoms @ Ice Caps tomorrow as a pre Birthday celebration. Hoping to get a good look at Sanheim and Co.

[FlyHigh]

Nice one that sounds fun, hope it's a great game. BSH had an article a while ago about how difficult it was to get out to St. Johns, had no idea it was quite so far tbh, you guys are really way out there seems like.

D-zone coverage has been horrific in this game, have lost track of how many times the Canes have just walked into open shots from the slot.

What percentage of posts in this thread convey this exact thought? Seems like it's been the same shit every night with these guys

Yeah, dunno what it is, maybe once you're eliminated it's hard to keep the same level or something.

[Hovercraft]

Yeah we are very north east, and an island so winter travel especially is a hassle.

[jester]

Nice one that sounds fun, hope it's a great game. BSH had an article a while ago about how difficult it was to get out to St. Johns, had no idea it was quite so far tbh, you guys are really way out there seems like.

Yeah, I decided against applying for a job up there due to the remoteness. Would have ended in divorce.

[FlyHigh]

What kind of job was it out of curiosity? Seems like kind of an odd spot to have job openings that would appeal to suburban Philadelphians (for a variety of reasons, certainly not casting aspersions on the area at all).

[jester]

What kind of job was it out of curiosity? Seems like kind of an odd spot to have job openings that would appeal to suburban Philadelphians (for a variety of reasons, certainly not casting aspersions on the area at all).

College prof., which you need to be real flexible on location for. That was a bridge too far. It wasn't even in St. John's. It was on the opposite side of Newfoundland. If it was in St John's I probably would have applied.

[CantSeeColors]

Yeah we are very north east, and an island so winter travel especially is a hassle.

Christ, I just looked at a map, you guys might as well be the North Pole.

[jester]

Yeah, folks generally don't register how far north some of these spots are. For example, Europe is much more northern than many realize.

[Hovercraft]

Was that Corner Brook Jester? Pretty beautiful part of the province, but even though it's the biggest "city" outside the St. John's area, it's only ~20k population and it's like a long 8 hour drive to St. John's. Our population density is crazy low, around half the province lives within an hour of the city.

[JLHockeyKnight]

Yeah, folks generally don't register how far north some of these spots are. For example, Europe is much more northern than many realize.

Holy crap this. Just off-hand you tend to think that where we are in the Philadelphia area, we're probably at about the same latitude as England. WRONG. More like we're at the same latitude as northern Portugal/Spain. England is up there.

[jester]

Was that Corner Brook Jester? Pretty beautiful part of the province, but even though it's the biggest "city" outside the St. John's area, it's only ~20k population and it's like a long 8 hour drive to St. John's. Our population density is crazy low, around half the province lives within an hour of the city.

Grennel was the school I think? Looked like a decent place to work, but extremely isolated.

[jester]

Yeah, folks generally don't register how far north some of these spots are. For example, Europe is much more northern than many realize.

Holy crap this. Just off-hand you tend to think that where we are in the Philadelphia area, we're probably at about the same latitude as England. WRONG. More like we're at the same latitude as northern Portugal/Spain. England is up there.

Yeah, if you are in Scotland there is a band of sunlight along the horizon at night during the summer.

[vonbonds]

I spent many summers in Scotland growing up. My biggest memories besides family is laying on the ground watching the Aurora Borealis at night

[Hovercraft]

Was that Corner Brook Jester? Pretty beautiful part of the province, but even though it's the biggest "city" outside the St. John's area, it's only ~20k population and it's like a long 8 hour drive to St. John's. Our population density is crazy low, around half the province lives within an hour of the city.

Grennel was the school I think? Looked like a decent place to work, but extremely isolated.

Yeah Grenfell. It's one campus of Memorial University. I work at St. John's Campus.

Newfoundland is a great place to visit in the summer if you are into nature/outdoors/history, as a lot of the small towns really open up in tourism season. Might be worth considering sometime for all you Americans while Cdn dollar is mediocre.

[CantSeeColors]

Was that Corner Brook Jester? Pretty beautiful part of the province, but even though it's the biggest "city" outside the St. John's area, it's only ~20k population and it's like a long 8 hour drive to St. John's. Our population density is crazy low, around half the province lives within an hour of the city.

Grennel was the school I think? Looked like a decent place to work, but extremely isolated.

Yeah Grenfell. It's one campus of Memorial University. I work at St. John's Campus.

Newfoundland is a great place to visit in the summer if you are into nature/outdoors/history, as a lot of the small towns really open up in tourism season. Might be worth considering sometime for all you Americans while Cdn dollar is mediocre.

The fiancee and I were considering a trip to Nova Scotia at some point down the road. How does that compare with Newfoundland in terms of a ~4 day summer trip?