2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1001 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm

Case in point:

And just because I enjoyed the plays:

CantSeeColors · Post #1002 by **CantSeeColors** » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:28 pm

Had to do a double take when I saw a clip titled "Dale Weise goal" as evidence of someone's high level play.

Hovercraft · Post #1003 by **Hovercraft** » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:37 am

Sucks that he is injured already, hopefully it's just minor. Showing why we needed Hayes even if we overpaid.

jester · Post #1004 by **jester** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:18 am

Hovercraft wrote:Sucks that he is injured already, hopefully it's just minor. Showing why we needed Hayes even if we overpaid.

Hold that thought ... it's preseason.

I have real concerns the Flyers will regret that deal. Not because Hayes will bomb, but because Patrick will blossom and then you have the other kids.

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1005 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:37 am

Same. The NMC was just the sugar on top.

chicpea · Post #1006 by **chicpea** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:57 am

What can I expect from O Lindblom this season?

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1007 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:07 pm

Rough estimate?

14-20 goals
24-28 assists

He's probably not going to get consistent top-six minutes, unless AV takes a liking to him, or injuries take hold. But I almost guarantee he will continue killing penalties, and take whatever PP minutes are available to the 2nd-unit.

chicpea · Post #1008 by **chicpea** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm

Thanks, rp. Kind of what I was expecting. But I've been hearing he has a lot of upside.

CantSeeColors · Post #1009 by **CantSeeColors** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:20 pm

jester wrote:
Hovercraft wrote:Sucks that he is injured already, hopefully it's just minor. Showing why we needed Hayes even if we overpaid.

Hold that thought ... it's preseason.

I have real concerns the Flyers will regret that deal. Not because Hayes will bomb, but because Patrick will blossom and then you have the other kids.

Do you ever really regret having too many good centers? If this happens and you’re in a cap crunch, just ship out JVR or something

Hovercraft · Post #1010 by **Hovercraft** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:45 am

We'll likely lose JVR or Voracek in expansion draft anyway

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1011 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:48 am

Oh, fun. I just saw that Niskanen comes with a limited NTC/NMC, so by rights Fletcher has to protect him as one of our three/four defensemen.

I hate when stupid people do obviously stupid things.

Hovercraft · Post #1012 by **Hovercraft** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:01 pm

No that's not right, Niskanens contract is up before the expansion draft even takes place. It's June 2021 for the draft.

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1013 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:49 pm

You're right on the timing. Thank. Fuck.

Hovercraft · Post #1014 by **Hovercraft** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:44 am

Hayes NMC is the one to be angry with

jester · Post #1015 by **jester** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:11 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:
jester wrote:
Hovercraft wrote:Sucks that he is injured already, hopefully it's just minor. Showing why we needed Hayes even if we overpaid.

Hold that thought ... it's preseason.

I have real concerns the Flyers will regret that deal. Not because Hayes will bomb, but because Patrick will blossom and then you have the other kids.

Do you ever really regret having too many good centers? If this happens and you’re in a cap crunch, just ship out JVR or something

Yes, let's dump our PP1 net front guy because we have contract redundancy at center ... which was a predictable potentiality. You can do that, but that is less than ideal use of assets. But obviously this comes down to reading the tea leaves with Patrick.

If we were going to give out a big contract this past summer, I wanted an impact frontline player. Hayes is a good player, but the fact that he tops out as a solid 2C makes the thought process there less than ideal to me.

FlyHigh · Post #1016 by **FlyHigh** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:32 pm

I do wonder if there is a bit of "we owe it to them" with regard to Giroux/Voracek. When you factor in length of service, Giroux is probably the team's best player since Lindros and Voracek has a decent case as the 2nd-best forward. Since 2012, this team has been a study in mediocrity and neither one of them has really said anything or caused any waves (and in NHL terms, 7 seasons is a freaking long time, Giroux has spent his entire prime on a team that was probably never better than 12th-14th in the league). In an ideal world, perhaps you give Patrick another year and hold your cap powder dry, but I can see where the sentiment to accelerate the process comes from.

Hayes also does seem to have the type of game that should age pretty well unless his body breaks down (which seems somewhat unlikely considering his size/strength). I also understand why they signed JVR and think he could really do some damage in a sheltered role, but if this really comes down to Hayes vs. JVR, I'm not going to shed too many tears if they have to move on a year or two early.

Re: Hayes' contract, I always go back to the fact that if this were a 6x6 deal, people would be lauding it as an absolute steal. There really isn't a massive difference between 7x7 and 6x6 when you're dealing with an $83M cap.

jester · Post #1017 by **jester** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:29 pm

FlyHigh wrote:I do wonder if there is a bit of "we owe it to them" with regard to Giroux/Voracek. When you factor in length of service, Giroux is probably the team's best player since Lindros and Voracek has a decent case as the 2nd-best forward. Since 2012, this team has been a study in mediocrity and neither one of them has really said anything or caused any waves (and in NHL terms, 7 seasons is a freaking long time, Giroux has spent his entire prime on a team that was probably never better than 12th-14th in the league). In an ideal world, perhaps you give Patrick another year and hold your cap powder dry, but I can see where the sentiment to accelerate the process comes from.

Hayes also does seem to have the type of game that should age pretty well unless his body breaks down (which seems somewhat unlikely considering his size/strength). I also understand why they signed JVR and think he could really do some damage in a sheltered role, but if this really comes down to Hayes vs. JVR, I'm not going to shed too many tears if they have to move on a year or two early.

Re: Hayes' contract, I always go back to the fact that if this were a 6x6 deal, people would be lauding it as an absolute steal. There really isn't a massive difference between 7x7 and 6x6 when you're dealing with an $83M cap.

The problem with Hayes' contract is that if Patrick takes over 2C minutes, there's literally no way you're getting value out of his contract. If he moves to wing, he's not earning that deal. If he moves to 3C, he's definitely not earning that deal.

I'm biased, because I think Patrick is going to be pretty good sooner rather than later. But those are the stakes with that contract, and why it is very risky cap management.

FlyHigh · Post #1018 by **FlyHigh** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:01 am

This might be a good "agree to disagree". If Patrick gets good, say he's an undisputed 1C or 2C, I still think it's great to have Hayes around for a couple of reasons (all with the caveat that Patrick pops).

1) Couturier-Patrick-Hayes is pretty awesome to have down the middle for a playoff series and just in general during the regular season, guys are going to get hurt and having center depth is a good thing. I do really like the idea of always having a guy on the ice in the POs that you trust to drive play and that matchups become much less of a worry (hypothetically, if you are trying to match Couturier against Matthews and Hayes as your 3C gets a few shifts against him, that's much less of an issue than if its Frost/Rubtsov/Vorobyev). I'd view JVR's deal as more of a problem on that front tbh (do ppl trust JVR to play top-6 mins in the playoffs?).

2) Even if Patrick gets to 40-50 points this year, there's virtually no way his next contract is going to be onerous. Point just signed for 6.75x3 and he had 92 freaking points last year. Would be really surprising to me if Patrick went over $5M AAV unless he absolutely blows the doors off everyone this year, so then you're looking at $16-17M for your top-3 C's for the next 3-4 years, that is not bad.

I also like the deal because it makes this year a "show-me" year for Patrick. He's going to get sheltered matchups and will have at least 1, and probably 2, pretty overqualified linemates. If he continues to struggle this year (again, very much hope it doesn't happen), I think you have learned a fair amount about your own guy. He's going to be in a great spot, it'll be up to him to perform.

Thinking on it, the Hayes deal probably makes it significantly less likely that JVR finishes out his deal on the team (if you have to pay Frost/Farabee/Sanheim/Lindblom/Hart/Myers, space starts to get short), but I am generally OK with that, outside of it being a bummer for JVR personally of course.

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1019 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:22 am

FlyHigh wrote:Re: Hayes' contract, I always go back to the fact that if this were a 6x6 deal, people would be lauding it as an absolute steal. There really isn't a massive difference between 7x7 and 6x6 when you're dealing with an $83M cap.

No to both of those things.

Hayes, as far as I'm concerned, is the new Andrew MacDonald. He's a competent player when played sparingly, but is about to get exposed by playing for a new organization with new expectations tied to a new contract. And, unfortunately for us, Fletcher repeated the sins of the past by throwing a NMC into the mix. So if this does prove to be a problem in the future, Fletch' is going to have a hell of a time getting out of it. Again.

Hovercraft · Post #1020 by **Hovercraft** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 am

Hayes is a much better hockey player than Macdonald though... He is overpaid for sure but the NMC is only for the first 3 years and then it turns to a 12 team NTC. Still crappy but not as bad as a full NMC. I'm willing to let him play some games before writing him off. I think he will be a huge help in the next few years, but his contract length will be a big problem after that.

FlyHigh · Post #1021 by **FlyHigh** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 am

Huh? I think even Hayes' detractors would admit that he's a perfectly solid 2C.

AMac had a track record of being a bottom-pair d-man who consistently got caved in, but got a lot of minutes because the Isles were awful which somehow fooled ppl into thinking he was good.

jester · Post #1022 by **jester** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:32 am

FlyHigh wrote:This might be a good "agree to disagree". If Patrick gets good, say he's an undisputed 1C or 2C, I still think it's great to have Hayes around for a couple of reasons (all with the caveat that Patrick pops).

1) Couturier-Patrick-Hayes is pretty awesome to have down the middle for a playoff series and just in general during the regular season, guys are going to get hurt and having center depth is a good thing. I do really like the idea of always having a guy on the ice in the POs that you trust to drive play and that matchups become much less of a worry (hypothetically, if you are trying to match Couturier against Matthews and Hayes as your 3C gets a few shifts against him, that's much less of an issue than if its Frost/Rubtsov/Vorobyev). I'd view JVR's deal as more of a problem on that front tbh (do ppl trust JVR to play top-6 mins in the playoffs?).

2) Even if Patrick gets to 40-50 points this year, there's virtually no way his next contract is going to be onerous. Point just signed for 6.75x3 and he had 92 freaking points last year. Would be really surprising to me if Patrick went over $5M AAV unless he absolutely blows the doors off everyone this year, so then you're looking at $16-17M for your top-3 C's for the next 3-4 years, that is not bad.

I also like the deal because it makes this year a "show-me" year for Patrick. He's going to get sheltered matchups and will have at least 1, and probably 2, pretty overqualified linemates. If he continues to struggle this year (again, very much hope it doesn't happen), I think you have learned a fair amount about your own guy. He's going to be in a great spot, it'll be up to him to perform.

Thinking on it, the Hayes deal probably makes it significantly less likely that JVR finishes out his deal on the team (if you have to pay Frost/Farabee/Sanheim/Lindblom/Hart/Myers, space starts to get short), but I am generally OK with that, outside of it being a bummer for JVR personally of course.

... if Patrick goes off a la Richards in year three, Hayes immediately becomes an overpaid luxury. Full stop. Sure, it's nice to have a good 2C level 3C, but we live in the cap world and that only really works if you're paying one of those guys below value for production. And, yes, Couturier is below market value for his production ... but then we got Giroux and Voracek on the books for the forward corp and JVR there as well. Point's deal is universally being called a bargain, so ... that might not work as the precedent you want. Flyers would also have to throw in an extra $100K/year to cover the tax differences there. Not a big deal, but it is what it is.

So, what we are really looking at is ... $40M tied up in Giroux, Voracek, JVR, Couturier, Hayes, and Konecny (as noted, I would have been more conservative with him, too). If Patrick -- the former no. 2 overall pick -- pops off and becomes a 60+ point guy, you're looking at pushing that to at least $45.5M with Patrick (a center) on a Konecny-esque deal. Note: in this hypothetical, two of those guys are likely on the third line (JVR and Patrick are there right now), and Konecny is a guy that hasn't proven he can drive play on his own yet.

And, not for nothing, in 2020-21, you may very well be looking at the defense and goalie upping their portion of the cap allotment considerably with Sanheim and Hart signing their next deals.

Oh, and if we do enter an economic downturn in the near term, you cannot necessarily bank on cap inflation helping you out with all of this. It's not the end of the world, but the underlying problem with Hayes is that he is what he is ... which is a solid 2C, which you may have already had in house with a bit of patience.

Hovercraft · Post #1023 by **Hovercraft** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:45 am

I think it's pretty much a given that we'll lose JVR/Voracek in the 2021 expansion, which aligns with Hart/Sanheim needing new deals. Obviously it would be better to lose Hayes over them but he wasnt going to sign a new deal and leave himself exposed to expansion. I think it was important for us to get center depth. Maybe Fletcher could have tried for Kadri but that would have cost other assets. When Couturier/Giroux's deals are up it will be interesting to see what happens.

I don't feel as high on Patrick as Jester right now, but hopefully we'll see some good development under AV.

FlyHigh · Post #1024 by **FlyHigh** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:27 am

jester wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:This might be a good "agree to disagree". If Patrick gets good, say he's an undisputed 1C or 2C, I still think it's great to have Hayes around for a couple of reasons (all with the caveat that Patrick pops).

1) Couturier-Patrick-Hayes is pretty awesome to have down the middle for a playoff series and just in general during the regular season, guys are going to get hurt and having center depth is a good thing. I do really like the idea of always having a guy on the ice in the POs that you trust to drive play and that matchups become much less of a worry (hypothetically, if you are trying to match Couturier against Matthews and Hayes as your 3C gets a few shifts against him, that's much less of an issue than if its Frost/Rubtsov/Vorobyev). I'd view JVR's deal as more of a problem on that front tbh (do ppl trust JVR to play top-6 mins in the playoffs?).

2) Even if Patrick gets to 40-50 points this year, there's virtually no way his next contract is going to be onerous. Point just signed for 6.75x3 and he had 92 freaking points last year. Would be really surprising to me if Patrick went over $5M AAV unless he absolutely blows the doors off everyone this year, so then you're looking at $16-17M for your top-3 C's for the next 3-4 years, that is not bad.

I also like the deal because it makes this year a "show-me" year for Patrick. He's going to get sheltered matchups and will have at least 1, and probably 2, pretty overqualified linemates. If he continues to struggle this year (again, very much hope it doesn't happen), I think you have learned a fair amount about your own guy. He's going to be in a great spot, it'll be up to him to perform.

Thinking on it, the Hayes deal probably makes it significantly less likely that JVR finishes out his deal on the team (if you have to pay Frost/Farabee/Sanheim/Lindblom/Hart/Myers, space starts to get short), but I am generally OK with that, outside of it being a bummer for JVR personally of course.

... if Patrick goes off a la Richards in year three, Hayes immediately becomes an overpaid luxury. Full stop. Sure, it's nice to have a good 2C level 3C, but we live in the cap world and that only really works if you're paying one of those guys below value for production. And, yes, Couturier is below market value for his production ... but then we got Giroux and Voracek on the books for the forward corp and JVR there as well. Point's deal is universally being called a bargain, so ... that might not work as the precedent you want. Flyers would also have to throw in an extra $100K/year to cover the tax differences there. Not a big deal, but it is what it is.

So, what we are really looking at is ... $40M tied up in Giroux, Voracek, JVR, Couturier, Hayes, and Konecny (as noted, I would have been more conservative with him, too). If Patrick -- the former no. 2 overall pick -- pops off and becomes a 60+ point guy, you're looking at pushing that to at least $45.5M with Patrick (a center) on a Konecny-esque deal. Note: in this hypothetical, two of those guys are likely on the third line (JVR and Patrick are there right now), and Konecny is a guy that hasn't proven he can drive play on his own yet.

And, not for nothing, in 2020-21, you may very well be looking at the defense and goalie upping their portion of the cap allotment considerably with Sanheim and Hart signing their next deals.

Oh, and if we do enter an economic downturn in the near term, you cannot necessarily bank on cap inflation helping you out with all of this. It's not the end of the world, but the underlying problem with Hayes is that he is what he is ... which is a solid 2C, which you may have already had in house with a bit of patience.

Boeser also got $5.875 and that's with a significantly better track record than Patrick. Also worth noting that fully half of Richards' points in that breakout year were on special teams. Patrick isn't on the top-PP unit and isn't likely to play PK, so there's already a bit of an artificial ceiling. For Patrick to become a 60 point guy, you may well be looking at 50+ ESP, there were 46 guys in the entire league that did that last year and at that point for Patrick, it will be 1 good year. If he really explodes, that's an awesome problem to have, but I think it's quite unlikely and I wouldn't blame the front office for reaching the same conclusion.

And yeah, Hayes at $7M for a 3C is definitely a luxury, but I'm willing to overpay by $2-3M for a guy who can play up the lineup, kills penalties well, can line-match against anyone, and doesn't need PP to produce offense. As Hover points out, his NMC tapes down to a modified NTC right when Farabee/Frost will be up for new deals, so if it really becomes an issue, they can move on from him or JVR (I have a bit of trouble believing either if those contracts will be a Marleau-type situation, those guys are solid NHL contributors and still in their primes).

And again, we are assuming best-case with Patrick here. The org knows him a lot better than any of us do. We are talking about a Mike Richards explosion and a top-6 role for a guy who isn't in camp right now and doesn't have a timetable for return (and, unfortunately, has had his share of injury problems in the past).

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1025 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:41 am

FlyHigh wrote:Huh? I think even Hayes' detractors would admit that he's a perfectly solid 2C.

AMac had a track record of being a bottom-pair d-man who consistently got caved in, but got a lot of minutes because the Isles were awful which somehow fooled ppl into thinking he was good.

I'm not too sure that's altogether different from Hayes, but maybe with Giroux and Couturier shouldering the workload offensively he'll stand a better chance of succeeding. At the same time, maybe his production suffers because he isn't getting 1.5/2.0 minutes a night with the man advantage.

Caved In NYI AMac - 46 CF%, 47 FF%, 46 OZ%
Perfectly Solid 2C NYR Hayes - 48 CF%, 48 FF%, 50 OZ%

FlyHigh · Post #1026 by **FlyHigh** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:51 am

If you look at his relative possession numbers, outside of a 15-16 year when he got destroyed (no idea what happened there tbh), he's been quite positive relative to his team and his 5v5 point production has been consistently really solid.

I mean, I'm not jumping up and down about the signing, it's an overpay and a guy like Kevin Hayes isn't a front-line player on a Cup contender. But he definitely makes the team better today and I have to say, I do think Lindblom-Hayes-Voracek has potential to be a really beast 2nd line at ES. All of those guys are big and skate well, each of them has a history of pretty good possession numbers, and Hayes/Voracek have decent track records of ES point production.

jester · Post #1027 by **jester** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:59 pm

FlyHigh wrote:And again, we are assuming best-case with Patrick here. The org knows him a lot better than any of us do. We are talking about a Mike Richards explosion and a top-6 role for a guy who isn't in camp right now and doesn't have a timetable for return (and, unfortunately, has had his share of injury problems in the past).

... the "organization" has been with Patrick since what, December?

And lets be real clear about what was going on last year into this summer. Ron Hextall got shitcanned because he was being too cautious and (perhaps) too micromanaging. Fletcher went into this past summer with an effective decree to spend money on ... something. He spent it on Hayes, a good but not great player that got a borderline "great" player deal. There are good reasons why that was a poorly spent contract in the grand scheme of cap management, etc.

It's easy to spend money. It's hard to spend money wisely.

CantSeeColors · Post #1028 by **CantSeeColors** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:07 pm

jester wrote:
CantSeeColors wrote:
jester wrote:
Hold that thought ... it's preseason.

I have real concerns the Flyers will regret that deal. Not because Hayes will bomb, but because Patrick will blossom and then you have the other kids.

Do you ever really regret having too many good centers? If this happens and you’re in a cap crunch, just ship out JVR or something

Yes, let's dump our PP1 net front guy because we have contract redundancy at center ... which was a predictable potentiality. You can do that, but that is less than ideal use of assets. But obviously this comes down to reading the tea leaves with Patrick.

If we were going to give out a big contract this past summer, I wanted an impact frontline player. Hayes is a good player, but the fact that he tops out as a solid 2C makes the thought process there less than ideal to me.

The net front guy whose handedness doesn’t fit with a single other guy on the PP and literally breaks the structure? I won’t lose any sleep over that

jester · Post #1029 by **jester** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:26 pm

CantSeeColors wrote:
jester wrote:
CantSeeColors wrote:Do you ever really regret having too many good centers? If this happens and you’re in a cap crunch, just ship out JVR or something

Yes, let's dump our PP1 net front guy because we have contract redundancy at center ... which was a predictable potentiality. You can do that, but that is less than ideal use of assets. But obviously this comes down to reading the tea leaves with Patrick.

If we were going to give out a big contract this past summer, I wanted an impact frontline player. Hayes is a good player, but the fact that he tops out as a solid 2C makes the thought process there less than ideal to me.

The net front guy whose handedness doesn’t fit with a single other guy on the PP and literally breaks the structure? I won’t lose any sleep over that

He was also our best goal scorer when healthy last year ... without much PP time.

Hovercraft · Post #1030 by **Hovercraft** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:59 pm

Brutal. Hopefully not just concussion related....

FlyHigh · Post #1031 by **FlyHigh** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:05 pm

Hovercraft wrote:https://twitter.com/NHLFlyers/status/1177295650188353538?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1177295650188353538&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231177295650188353538

Brutal. Hopefully not just concussion related....

Yeah no kidding, unfortunately I would imagine you're right, he does have a bit of a history with those if I'm not mistaken.

Hovercraft · Post #1032 by **Hovercraft** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:09 pm

Yep he had at least one in the NHL and some in juniors. I wonder how long Flyers front office knew he was having trouble. I also wonder how much physical activity he can manage right now.

Pretty sure his NHL concussion was from now Flyer/phantom Kurtis Gabriel.
Again I am glad about having Hayes for center depth despite the contract issues. Wonder who grabs the 3C spot between Laughton and the kids.

chicpea · Post #1033 by **chicpea** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:07 pm

“We didn’t ask him to get migraines.”

Hovercraft · Post #1034 by **Hovercraft** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:38 am

In more positive news, it seems like Farabee, Twarynski and Bunnaman made the team. Frost to the AHL. Injuries to Patrick and Pitlick opened up 2 spots.

Probably looking at something like this as a lineup for opening night:

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Hayes-Voracek
Lindblom-Laughton-Farabee
Twarynski-Bunnaman-Raffl

Though AV did say he might put Giroux at C at some point as well.

With the 8 D and 2 injured players we are over the cap but I guess Pitlick or Patrick will go on LTIR for now

vonbonds · Post #1035 by **vonbonds** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:50 pm

So apparently the Flyers were on behind the glass this year. Is there a way to watch this online? My son wants to see it.

chaosof99 · Post #1036 by **chaosof99** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:06 am

Episode 1 is on YouTube:

chicpea · Post #1037 by **chicpea** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:12 am

Is there a decent chance Linblom steals JVR's 2nd line spot? I've heard some high on him.

Hovercraft · Post #1038 by **Hovercraft** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:15 am

JVR and Lindblom both saw time with Hayes and Voracek in the preseason. Lindblom might get some time there if chemistry is good, but he won't knock JVR off PP1.

vonbonds · Post #1039 by **vonbonds** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:57 am

chaosof99 wrote:Episode 1 is on YouTube:

Thanks. I thought it was over already.

chicpea · Post #1040 by **chicpea** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:14 am

Hovercraft wrote:JVR and Lindblom both saw time with Hayes and Voracek in the preseason. Lindblom might get some time there if chemistry is good, but he won't knock JVR off PP1.

Thank you.

FlyHigh · Post #1041 by **FlyHigh** » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:11 pm

Holmgren-esque cap shenanigans to start the year, yikes.

Hovercraft · Post #1042 by **Hovercraft** » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:46 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Holmgren-esque cap shenanigans to start the year, yikes.

Yeah we shouldn't be at this point. Retaining on Gudas was super stupid

Konecny HypeTrain Captain · Post #1043 by **Konecny HypeTrain Captain** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:17 pm

The ride never ends

JLHockeyKnight · Post #1044 by **JLHockeyKnight** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:42 pm

Re: Patrick

I used to get migraines a lot when I was younger, and still get 1-3 a year. They fucking suck, and are absolutely crippling. I can't imagine what it means to have the word "disorder" tacked on to the end of that. I feel for him.

Hovercraft · Post #1045 by **Hovercraft** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:34 am

Schenn signed 8 year deal with STL for $6.5mil per year. Not a bad contract, cheaper than Hayes but I guess Schenn was happy with STL and wanted to stay with them.

CantSeeColors · Post #1046 by **CantSeeColors** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:05 am

That’s a massive overpay, imo

Hovercraft · Post #1047 by **Hovercraft** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 am

I think the $ number is fair-ish, but 8 years is a lot of term for Schenn. He was already making 5.125. I'm surprised they didnt prioritize Pietrangelo first though.

FlyHigh · Post #1048 by **FlyHigh** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:30 am

Schenn is a great example of how confusing player evaluation can be. At the time they dealt him, I don't think anyone here would have thought he was a legit top-6 C. 2 years later, he's a top-6 C with pretty decent possession numbers IIRC (plus some decent ES scoring) on a Cup champion.

I do think that has a lot to do with his wingers (apparently Schwartz is a fancy stats darling and Tarasenko is Tarasenko), but just goes to show that context matters so much for these guys I suppose.

Rogers Pancreas · Post #1049 by **Rogers Pancreas** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:47 pm

That is one ugly contract, but they also have The Cup going for them. It's probably going to be their last one for the next twenty to thirty years, but they won it.

CantSeeColors · Post #1050 by **CantSeeColors** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:42 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Schenn is a great example of how confusing player evaluation can be. At the time they dealt him, I don't think anyone here would have thought he was a legit top-6 C. 2 years later, he's a top-6 C with pretty decent possession numbers IIRC (plus some decent ES scoring) on a Cup champion.

I do think that has a lot to do with his wingers (apparently Schwartz is a fancy stats darling and Tarasenko is Tarasenko), but just goes to show that context matters so much for these guys I suppose.

If you’re only effective based on the other players on your line, are you really worth 8 years?

Who is online