2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #901 by vonbonds » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:19 am

jester wrote:
vonbonds wrote:No one can be this bad. He has to be under strict rules to compete ASAP. It’s a shame as you guys in my opinion were building a TB style pipeline and were just a year or two away from the flow of talent to start coming through in waves.


Pipeline hasn't changed much (the picks this year were likely 3-4 years away from being rookies in a best case scenario). Cap situation, however ...

Hayes better have a Primeau-esque role to justify the contract if you assume (as I do) that Patrick is going to be a good player.

In evergreen news: it's very good to be a UFA center.

Yeah, I tried to walk it back a hair. I have a feeling you’ll be making another splash style trade or two though. We’ll see.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #902 by jester » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:13 am

vonbonds wrote:Yeah, I tried to walk it back a hair. I have a feeling you’ll be making another splash style trade or two though. We’ll see.


I suspect Ghost is gone, which may actually not be the worst thing in the world if someone like Sanheim can take over on the PP and prove effective up top. I'm not convinced I like that plan, but if you get a contributing top 6 wing you could end up with a very deep bench of forwards in very short order.

That being said, while there is a lot of smoke around Ghost right now ... I would not sleep on a potential Voracek departure if they can find a willing taker for his cap hit.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #903 by Hovercraft » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:41 pm

Our pipline is solid but the last couple of early Hextall picks(Rubstov, O'Brien) aren't looking as good as his previous picks (Sanheim, Provorov, Konecny etc). But Farabee, Frost and Ratcliffe are looking great.

I still do think Hayes is a great fit for what we needed in a middle six centre. Should be able to ease the defensive burden on Couturier and Giroux while contributing to PP2, PK and even strength. Term and cap hit are still bad. I like that JVRs deal was kept at 5 years last off season.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #904 by jester » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:12 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Our pipone is solid but the last couple of early Hextall picks(Rubstov, O'Brien) aren't looking as good as his previous picks (Sanheim, Provorov, Konecny etc). But Farabee, Frost and Ratcliffe are looking great.

I still do think Hayes is a great fit for what we needed in a middle six centre. Should be able to ease the defensive burden on Couturier and Giroux while contributing to PP2, PK and even strength. Term and cap hit are still bad. I like that JVRs deal was kept at 5 years last off season.


Folks were pretty pleased with what they saw from Rubtsov in the AHL before he got hurt. So, we will see. Who knows with O'Brien, but he was also a late 1st post-Farabee swing for the fences.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #905 by FlyHigh » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:04 pm

I think some of the Hayes reaction is mildly overblown. If this were 6 years, 6.5, presumably ppl would be over the moon. If they get 5 solid 2C years out of him (27, 28, 29, 30, 31 year-old seasons), I think it's fine.

Who knows what they'll do with Ghost, but honestly, Ghost-Myers could be a dynamite 3rd pair. I can see how they would talk themselves into Sanheim-Braun as a 2nd pairing. I don't think I agree with it, but there's at least some logic there, even if it's faulty.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #906 by Hovercraft » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:16 pm

FlyHigh wrote:I think some of the Hayes reaction is mildly overblown. If this were 6 years, 6.5, presumably ppl would be over the moon. If they get 5 solid 2C years out of him (27, 28, 29, 30, 31 year-old seasons), I think it's fine.

Who knows what they'll do with Ghost, but honestly, Ghost-Myers could be a dynamite 3rd pair. I can see how they would talk themselves into Sanheim-Braun as a 2nd pairing. I don't think I agree with it, but there's at least some logic there, even if it's faulty.


At least Hayes also has the defensive talent to play 3C if Patrick explodes offensively eventually. Not that I'd like paying 7 mil for 3C but still.

I hope we go in with Ghost-Myers as the 3rd pairing, they could feast on easier matchups at even strength. Would love it if we could trade Hagg for a 2nd or 3rd to recoup half the Braun trade
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #907 by CantSeeColors » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:17 pm

FlyHigh wrote:I think some of the Hayes reaction is mildly overblown. If this were 6 years, 6.5, presumably ppl would be over the moon. If they get 5 solid 2C years out of him (27, 28, 29, 30, 31 year-old seasons), I think it's fine.

Agree strongly with this. Hayes is a good player (consistent 40+ 5V5 scoring centers don't grow on trees), and you figure the last $1M on the cap hit and last year of term are just the UFA tax. It's an overpay, but this isn't a Lucic contract.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #908 by CantSeeColors » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Hovercraft wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:I think some of the Hayes reaction is mildly overblown. If this were 6 years, 6.5, presumably ppl would be over the moon. If they get 5 solid 2C years out of him (27, 28, 29, 30, 31 year-old seasons), I think it's fine.

Who knows what they'll do with Ghost, but honestly, Ghost-Myers could be a dynamite 3rd pair. I can see how they would talk themselves into Sanheim-Braun as a 2nd pairing. I don't think I agree with it, but there's at least some logic there, even if it's faulty.


At least Hayes also has the defensive talent to play 3C if Patrick explodes offensively eventually. Not that I'd like paying 7 mil for 3C but still.

I hope we go in with Ghost-Myers as the 3rd pairing, they could feast on easier matchups at even strength. Would love it if we could trade Hagg for a 2nd or 3rd to recoup half the Braun trade

Also agree strongly with this. Don't understand why people are so hung on up Ghost being labeled as a 3rd pairing guy. With the way he plays, why would you want him on the ice against good players when he will absolutely roast the lower tier guys? Isn't this like trying to get Giroux out there against the other team's 4th line?
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #909 by Hovercraft » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Yeah and Ghost will still be top PP even if he's 3rd pairing even strength. This isn't a Bartluis-Kraijcek 3rd pairing that will get 8 mins a game, Ghost-Myers would still get good minutes.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #910 by FlyHigh » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:07 pm

Hovercraft wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:I think some of the Hayes reaction is mildly overblown. If this were 6 years, 6.5, presumably ppl would be over the moon. If they get 5 solid 2C years out of him (27, 28, 29, 30, 31 year-old seasons), I think it's fine.

Who knows what they'll do with Ghost, but honestly, Ghost-Myers could be a dynamite 3rd pair. I can see how they would talk themselves into Sanheim-Braun as a 2nd pairing. I don't think I agree with it, but there's at least some logic there, even if it's faulty.


At least Hayes also has the defensive talent to play 3C if Patrick explodes offensively eventually. Not that I'd like paying 7 mil for 3C but still.

I hope we go in with Ghost-Myers as the 3rd pairing, they could feast on easier matchups at even strength. Would love it if we could trade Hagg for a 2nd or 3rd to recoup half the Braun trade


Yep for sure. I dunno how true this has been recently, but one of those hockey tropes is that you need to be strong down the middle to win in the playoffs, think that Couturier/Hayes/Patrick would qualify for the new few years. With the cap going up, 7M isn't a ton to pay for a 2C, particularly when you consider that Hayes is doing most of his damage at ES. Also, just looking at the d-pairings:

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Braun
Ghost-Myers

If you assume Provorov rebounds, that's a pretty decent group. Sanheim at least managed to tread water in 1st pairing minutes last year, so you'd hope that he could do well in a 2nd pairing role. Then I think you have to hope that Myers can play his way into the top-4 as the year progresses. Myers/Braun paired with Ghost really would give you an above-average 3rd pairing.

Still think that the Braun trade was just flat-out dumb, but some of the wailing and gnashing of teeth I've seen on Twitter is a little much.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #911 by Hovercraft » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:12 pm

Hayes has a NMC for first 3 years of the deal. So we can't expose him to expansion draft. We'll probably lose one of our young Dmen. JVR and Voracek will definitely be exposed but that's fine.

Where do you guys see the RFAs settling? Our cap space is pretty tight now with Hayes/Niskanen/Braun assuming Provorov wants 7+. We will probably need some of them on cheaper bridges to all fit in.

Bill M said Provorov wants over 8mil but that seems too high...
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #912 by jester » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:15 am

Provorov's agent wants a long term huge deal ... probably ends up at a bridge deal.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #913 by Hovercraft » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:33 pm

We traded out 11th for Arizona's 14th and 45th. Curious to see who we draft now. Recoups one of the Braun picks
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #914 by FlyHigh » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:07 pm

Yah helps make the Braun deal more palatable. Fine with the pick, I understand why ppl would want a forward, but they’ve invested so much draft capital at F the past couple years outside of Ginning (which....eh?).
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #915 by Hovercraft » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:49 am

Cam York D

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/290129/cam-york

Top D from USDP, Fletcher and scouts had him in their top 10 on draft board.

A lot of people upset we didn't take Caulfield as he was falling. Seems similar to Konecny, undersized goal scorer falling in first round.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #916 by DeadPhish » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:58 am

I like the pick.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #917 by CantSeeColors » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 am

Flyers brain trust has drafted well for a while now, especially in the first round. I’m not going to doubt them, and picking up the extra second rounder is a nice bonus. They’ve done well in that round over the past five years too
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #918 by Rogers Pancreas » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:03 am

I was really hoping for Peyton Krebs. But whatever. Sports.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #919 by Hovercraft » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:27 pm

We traded #45 and #65 for #34 today. Picked Bobby Brink, undersized forward who was rated as a 1st round pick by most outlets.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #920 by Rogers Pancreas » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:02 am

I've only just started to do some reading on our prospects, but I think I like this draft overall. Not that that means anything, but I'm glad we've gotten away from the days of Klotz and Matthers.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #921 by FlyHigh » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:48 pm

Yeah I thought the same. Seems like they really liked Brinks (and the Brinks advocates out there seem pretty fervent), so if you come away with a D you feel really good about, an F you feel really good about, and a few "hopefully there's something there" characters, that seems pretty good.

This is almost certainly an unfair comparison to make, but the Millman pick feels a little Sanheim-ish. Late riser in his draft year who might have been stuck behind some other guys on a very good team, but who skates well and might have untapped offensive upside.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #922 by Hovercraft » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:04 pm

Sanheim signed to 2 year bridge deal. 3.25 per year
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #923 by FlyHigh » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:38 pm

I'd be very curious what those negotiations were like. If I were Fletcher I would have been trying to lock him up at 6/30 or really anything with a 4+ year term with an AAV below 6, but wonder if Sanheim decided to bet on himself.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #924 by jester » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:02 pm

If I was Sanheim's agent, this is what I would have been targeting. If he just improved a little bit, the next deal will be huge.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #925 by FlyHigh » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:37 pm

Yeah especially after seeing what's happened with Couturier, Barkov, MacKinnon, Ghost, etc.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #926 by Hovercraft » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:47 pm

Yeah it's smart by Sanheim but it's helpful for our short term cap for now. Would have loved to get him on a 6 or 8 year deal though. He showed huge strides last year and he could even compete with Provorov as our top D moving forward.

Very interested to see where Provorov and Konecny settle.

We just traded Hartman for Pitlick. I guess Hartmans rfa demands were too greedy. Seems like Pitlick is a downgrade. But maybe Fletcher will target a depth winger
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #927 by jester » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 pm

I would expect bridge deals for both Konecny and Provorov.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #928 by Hovercraft » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:14 pm

jester wrote:I would expect bridge deals for both Konecny and Provorov.


Seems risky to sign all 3 of our big RFA to bridges. Have to think they try to lock up at least 1 of them to longtem deal now.


We signed Elliot for 1 year 2mil. Not exciting, but he should be fine for Hart's backup if he's healthy and not overplayed.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #929 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:09 pm

Provy should be locked up long term IMO.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #930 by jester » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:00 am

Hovercraft wrote:
jester wrote:I would expect bridge deals for both Konecny and Provorov.


Seems risky to sign all 3 of our big RFA to bridges. Have to think they try to lock up at least 1 of them to longtem deal now.


We signed Elliot for 1 year 2mil. Not exciting, but he should be fine for Hart's backup if he's healthy and not overplayed.


It takes two. If you're Provorov's agent last year's down season caused a hiccup with regard to a long-term deal. If the Flyers are willing to sign him like a top flight defender long term, then sure you do it. If you're the Flyers, on the other hand, there's risk there ... so a bridge deal suddenly seems more likely/palatable than it did a year ago this time.

On Konecny, both sides have considerable cause to seek out a bridge as opposed to long-term deal. If you're in his camp, there's the very real possibility that he is going to pop off over the next year or two and post 30+/30+/60+ seasons. If he does that, the contract he can sign a couple years from now will be much better.

I'd bet on both signing bridge deals. If I was going to gamble, I'd gamble on Provorov getting term.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #931 by jester » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:04 am

Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:Provy should be locked up long term IMO.


Are you ready to go 7.5M per with him?

That's the question, and while I wouldn't be upset if it happened, there is good reason not to. Last year was a bit alarming as far as growth curve goes, and he's not proven very adept at the PP (which is fine, but a catch if you're paying top dollar).
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #932 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:59 pm

6.5 would be ideal and fair I think, but if they're pushing for 7.5-8 then I am okay with the bridge. If we have to bridge Provy and he shows he's a legit #1 then sure we pay him the 8+mil and deal with it. If he gets 7-7.5 for term though I wouldn't hate it either. I also agree with the TK statement I think TK's camp should only want a bridge knowing that he has a good chance to hit 30+ goals before his next contract.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #933 by jester » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:6.5 would be ideal and fair I think, but if they're pushing for 7.5-8 then I am okay with the bridge. If we have to bridge Provy and he shows he's a legit #1 then sure we pay him the 8+mil and deal with it. If he gets 7-7.5 for term though I wouldn't hate it either. I also agree with the TK statement I think TK's camp should only want a bridge knowing that he has a good chance to hit 30+ goals before his next contract.


Yep, that's the rub, and why I think a bridge is most likely. Flyers should look for a potential bargain, and Provorov has no good reason to give them one.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #934 by Hovercraft » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:57 am

Duchene at 8m and Pavelski at 7 make Hayes look worse but I don't think they would have came here
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #935 by jester » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:07 am

Hovercraft wrote:Duchene at 8m and Pavelski at 7 make Hayes look worse but I don't think they would have came here


Duchene apparently took less to go to Nashville. So ...

There's no doubt we overpaid Hayes, though. Is what it is.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #936 by FlyHigh » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 am

Yeah, I was very surprised by that Duchene deal, he must have taken less.

A ton of risk attached to that Pavelski deal IMO, if he falls off (which is quite possible, he's turning 35 and that playoff injury looked pretty bad), that one could get ugly quick.

They probably overpaid Hayes by a year or two and $500K-$1M, I still think the Braun/Niskanen deals (both from a player eval standpoint and a reading the market standpoint) are a lot more concerning. I mean, this goes back to Hexy and O'Reilly last summer, but where were we on Subban?
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #937 by Hovercraft » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Yeah I guess Duchene probably got offered like 10 mil somewhere else in that case.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #938 by Hovercraft » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:43 am

In other news, Peguins gave a 6 year deal at 3.5 million to 3rd/4th liner Brandon Tanev. Career high 14 goals.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #939 by Rogers Pancreas » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:13 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Yeah, I was very surprised by that Duchene deal, he must have taken less.

A ton of risk attached to that Pavelski deal IMO, if he falls off (which is quite possible, he's turning 35 and that playoff injury looked pretty bad), that one could get ugly quick.

They probably overpaid Hayes by a year or two and $500K-$1M, I still think the Braun/Niskanen deals (both from a player eval standpoint and a reading the market standpoint) are a lot more concerning. I mean, this goes back to Hexy and O'Reilly last summer, but where were we on Subban?

I might be in the minority here, but I feel like, given cap-hits and skill-sets, the Flyers are a better team with Braun and Niskanen in the line-up than with Subban and whatever replacement-level player Feltcher would have had to sign to fill out the roster.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #940 by jester » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:26 pm

Bigger deal, as Fletcher clearly realizes based on quotes, is that it doesn't matter what he does externally if the internal chips don't pan out as desired.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #941 by Rogers Pancreas » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:09 pm

Chatted w/a source who says the RFA D market is currently waiting on two guys to start things off ... Provorov w/ #Flyers & Werenski w/ #CBJ

Werenski is looking for a three-year deal & the cap hit is expected to begin with a 5.

No idea on when an agreement will materialize.
— Brian Hedger (@BrianHedger) August 21, 2019

Also heard Provorov's camp asked for $10m cap hit, which I'm hoping/guessing was attached to an eight-year deal.

So ... #CBJ
— Brian Hedger (@BrianHedger) August 21, 2019

https://www.tsn.ca/report-columbus-blue ... -1.1353943

Um... no.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #942 by Hovercraft » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:35 am

Werenski, Provorov and McAvoy are the big 3 D RFA. Love Provorov but he is not worth 10 mil right now after last season.

Rumors that Konecny is close to a 2-3 year bridge at around 4.5-5mil not bad, but it would have been nice to lock him up for 6+ years around that number earlier in the season, before this big RFA standoff began.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #943 by DeadPhish » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:46 am

Damn for 10 mil let someone sign him to an offer sheet.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #944 by Hovercraft » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:30 pm

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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #945 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:30 pm

Here we go
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #946 by vonbonds » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:30 pm

Seems like a pertinent Philadelphia Flyer post

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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #947 by Hovercraft » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:46 am

Pretty tired of all these RFA holdouts now. So many across the league
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #948 by jester » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:48 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Pretty tired of all these RFA holdouts now. So many across the league


If you think this is tiring ... do not take up baseball fandom.

In all seriousness, as long as everyone is signed in a reasonable time it is not a huge deal. Players are trying to maximize their leverage points (start of the season and comparable contracts), and teams doing likewise (lost salary, etc.). Comes to a head right before the season starts.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #949 by FlyHigh » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:35 pm

Good lord that Gardiner contract, I know Sanheim and Ghost are already offensive-minded, but would rather that deal than the Niskanen and (particularly) Braun trades.
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Re: 2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

Post #950 by Hovercraft » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:14 am

I think Gardiner's back must be pretty bad to get that as the highest $$ with term. He said a lot of teams only offered 1/2 years

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