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the tendon-cy to retire is natural.
now with even more memorial.

Where does Team A sit relative to Team B?

Took a step back :: Holmgren apologists need not apply
0
No votes
Nothing's changed :: 2018 Calder Cup Champs
1
25%
Ahead of The Curve :: Hextall completes bid for Nobel Prize
3
75%
 
Total votes: 4
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Post #1 by Rogers Pancreas » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:25 pm

Team B
Carter
Pitkanen
Richards
Niittymaki
Umberger
Sharp
Seidenberg
(Gagne)


Team A
Patrick
Provorov
Konecny
Lindblom
Sanheim
Hart
Morin
Hagg
Myers
Laughton
Rubtsov
Frost
(Giroux)
(Voracek)
(Simmonds)
(Ghost)
(Couturier)
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Post #2 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:18 am

ez pz, why's this even a vote
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Post #3 by FlyHigh » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:40 am

Don't forget Friedman on Team B either, people seem to be quietly pretty high on him and NCAA is increasingly a good pipeline for NHL talent.

I guess the thing that's lacking from both lists is a potential top-10 player/superstar unless Patrick/Provorov really go above and beyond. Considering the Flyers history, it's kind of surprising how few top-10 players we've had:

Giroux circa 2011-14: Kind of a tough argument, he's going up against prime-age Crosby/Malkin/Toews/Ovechkin/Kopitar/Karlsson/Doughty/Stamkos/Tavares/Bergeron/Getzlaf and then guys like Chara/Datsyuk/Hossa etc. who were still very effective players.

Pronger 09-10: Top-10, should have won the Norris that year IMO.

Carter 08-09: Career year, you could make a good argument for him here.

Forsberg 05-06: Top-10 I think.

90s Lindros: Top-10, top-5 in at least some seasons.

70s Clarke: Top-10, top-5 a number of years.

I guess the nature of things is that there aren't that many superstars around, that's why they're superstars, but even the low number of guys we've had that are consistent top-10 guys was kind of surprising. 2 of the guys on that list were one-year guys that we traded for, Carter is a great player but even for him that year was an outlier, and one of them (Giroux) is a bit of a stretch.
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Post #4 by Rogers Pancreas » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:58 pm

Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:ez pz, why's this even a vote

I posted the poll because, as good as Hextall has been in managing assets and developing talent in retrospect we (I) sometimes forget that Holmgren's Flyers had some serious talent.

Pitkanen had Norris-caliber potential which I think exceeds Provorov's potential on draft-day. Carter was billed as a first-line center not altogether different from Patrick. Richards had second-line talent (see Konecny). Umberger (see Lindblom... or maybe Schenn is a more apt comparison) was looking like a top-six forward. Niittymaki/Hart a starter.

So, there are a lot of parallels here which make it an interesting conversation I think.
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Post #5 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:09 pm

I was being a bit sarcastic considering I didn't really like Holmgren.

I think the current situation is better because I have a lot more faith in Hexy in creating cap flexibility and I am extremely happy with him moving Schenn. The prospect pool now is deeper then I think it ever was under Holmgren and Hexy continually adds more picks it seems. That being said Holmgren did make two good trades IMO when he moved Carter and Richards the returns were fantastic.
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Post #6 by GoneFullHextall » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:08 pm

i cant vote because I was an idiot last night and clicked view votes before voting but I would obviously go with the current situation.
we would not have these group of prospects under Holmgren right now.
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Post #7 by jester » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:02 pm

... I'm not sure. No one should doubt Holmgren's management of the draft and young player acquisition (eg the Coburn trade). Shit fell apart for him in turning the corner into contender status, and Hextall has yet to arrive at that challenge.

I will say, it seems like we have a lot more legit depth now compared to then in the prospect pool. That might just be bias due to the known flameouts.
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Post #8 by Kilgore Trout » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:03 pm

I still think Homer had a genuine eye for talent.
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Post #9 by jester » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:08 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:I still think Homer had a genuine eye for talent.


That or he was good at delegating and trusting his scouts.
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Post #10 by Kilgore Trout » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:11 pm

jester wrote:
Kilgore Trout wrote:I still think Homer had a genuine eye for talent.


That or he was good at delegating and trusting his scouts.


Could also be true. Point is, good director of scouting, questionable GM.
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Post #11 by GoneFullHextall » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:13 pm

Not going to deny the guy could eye talent. There is no denying that. I guess my judgement is likely clouded by his complete inability to negotiate a contract and at times it seemed he was bidding against himself in some trades. Like the Pronger trade.
How much value did he put in draft picks? Because at times it seemed anyway it felt like he was giving them away for free.
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Post #12 by jester » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:17 am

Right, that was ever the problem with Holmgren ... he got promoted from a gig he was good at (Asst. GM) to a gig he ended up sucking at (GM).

That being said, he's far from alone when it comes to the old guard struggling with the new realities created by the advent of a salary cap and all that brought with it.

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