Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

the tendon-cy to retire is natural.
now with even more memorial.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1251 by jester » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:25 pm

I have zero faith Myers can remain healthy at this point.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1252 by Rogers Pancreas » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:39 pm

Simmonds is an outstanding guy. It's what makes having this conversation so hard.

We'll ignore the special teams' contributions for now, because he does nothing for you while down a man. At even-strength, he is not a six million dollar player. He's like Schenn in that, no matter who you pair him with, he struggles to produce. We've tried him with Giroux. That didn't work. We've tried him with Couturier. That didn't work. He's played with Patrick, and that didn't seem to do much outside a ten game stretch. So, if you're a general manager, what do you do with a player like that - who's only real tangible impact is with the man-advantage which is all of three minutes a night for some players, and is projected to eat nearly 10% of your total cap-space?

As much as I respect everything he's gone through, and everything he's done for us, Hextall owes it to the team to explore every option available to him in order to improve, or at least set himself up for an improvement. And right now, I think this team would be better served pursuing a semi-capable goaltender than he would be re-signing Simmonds long-term.

That's my take.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1253 by Rogers Pancreas » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:43 pm

I don't know if he (Hakstol) believes in what he's saying, or if he's just putting out positive sound-bytes for players he feel needs the support. But if it's the latter, the man needs to get out of hockey, and start working politics. Immediately. Possibly in the White House.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1254 by FlyHigh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:50 pm

jester wrote:I have zero faith Myers can remain healthy at this point.


Yeah that's a fair critique and a pretty important question for the org going forward. I'd tend to lean on the "cautious optimism" side in that none of these injuries are of the catastrophic variety, but he wouldn't be the first guy that lost a career due to inability to stay healthy.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1255 by Hovercraft » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

FlyHigh wrote:Tbf I don't think Manning-Gudas is necessarily a bad 3rd pair (though the stylistic mesh is somewhat odd), but they aren't guys you want to be leaning on in a PO series, particularly if you're gonna bench guys that are younger/better.

Re: the point about bringing in defensive help, I don't think it makes sense until you feel good about your goaltending. I mean, even if the Flyers played a lot better in the series, not sure if they're in a different spot if Elliott plays like this.

Think you have to give Myers a shot next year and see what you have. I mean, right now, Provorov is a 1, Ghost is a 2/3, and Sanheim looks like he has 2/3 upside (though needs to clean up his D game of course). If Myers also falls into that 2/3 range, there might not be a pressing need to bring in a marquee guy.


Having one of Gudas or Manning on the 3rd pair isn't so bad, but together they are just redundant. Not enough puck skills between them to effectively clear the zone. It's a shame that in Hak's mind the only competition on D is Sanheim vs Hagg, because Hagg is already like Manning with better speed and puck skills.

On defensive help, maybe we don't need a Karlsson or Doughty(or even Carlson) but if we get a solid vet #3-4 to replace Macdonald the D would be a lot smoother. The cap hit for buying out Macdonald this offseason is like 1.75 mil for 4 years, could be worth doing rather than 2 years at 5 mil... This could be another type of trade we could target with Simmonds. I don't know how to balance the value, but maybe something in the range of Fowler/Brodie/Spurgeon.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1256 by CantSeeColors » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:18 pm

If anyone actually thinks Macdonald is getting bought out this summer, I have an excellent bridge for sale
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1257 by Rogers Pancreas » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 pm

FlyHigh wrote:
jester wrote:I have zero faith Myers can remain healthy at this point.


Yeah that's a fair critique and a pretty important question for the org going forward. I'd tend to lean on the "cautious optimism" side in that none of these injuries are of the catastrophic variety, but he wouldn't be the first guy that lost a career due to inability to stay healthy.

No, it's really not. This is coming from a Sammy Watkins booster-club member mind you.

Virtually every player in the NHL misses games at one point or another for some reason or other. (Kind of a weird statement, but I think you know what I'm saying.) If they didn't, the whole iron-man streak wouldn't be a thing - it would be the norm. There are some issues that have proven themselves to be... problematic - concussions, groin, back, etc. But, for the most part, injuries are a roll of the dice, and as a general rule of thumb you deal with them as they come. You do not gamble away top-end potential for fear of injuries. You ride it out, and let history prove you wrong.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1258 by FlyHigh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Hovercraft wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:Tbf I don't think Manning-Gudas is necessarily a bad 3rd pair (though the stylistic mesh is somewhat odd), but they aren't guys you want to be leaning on in a PO series, particularly if you're gonna bench guys that are younger/better.

Re: the point about bringing in defensive help, I don't think it makes sense until you feel good about your goaltending. I mean, even if the Flyers played a lot better in the series, not sure if they're in a different spot if Elliott plays like this.

Think you have to give Myers a shot next year and see what you have. I mean, right now, Provorov is a 1, Ghost is a 2/3, and Sanheim looks like he has 2/3 upside (though needs to clean up his D game of course). If Myers also falls into that 2/3 range, there might not be a pressing need to bring in a marquee guy.


Having one of Gudas or Manning on the 3rd pair isn't so bad, but together they are just redundant. Not enough puck skills between them to effectively clear the zone. It's a shame that in Hak's mind the only competition on D is Sanheim vs Hagg, because Hagg is already like Manning with better speed and puck skills.

On defensive help, maybe we don't need a Karlsson or Doughty(or even Carlson) but if we get a solid vet #3-4 to replace Macdonald the D would be a lot smoother. The cap hit for buying out Macdonald this offseason is like 1.75 mil for 4 years, could be worth doing rather than 2 years at 5 mil... This could be another type of trade we could target with Simmonds. I don't know how to balance the value, but maybe something in the range of Fowler/Brodie/Spurgeon.


Yeah, it still amazes me that the Hagg (and Sanheim) phenomenon just goes back to "coach does not understand regression" in 2018, but we're far from the only club with that problem at least. I'd be OK riding out AMac for a couple years just since he's still a serviceable bottom pair guy, I feel like the issue with a number of those guys is that they're just given too much responsibility.

@ RP, point taken, but at the same time, the guy has dealt with seemingly constant nagging injuries for the better part of two years. Part of that might be the transition to the pros and etc., but it's valid to at least be mildly concerned about it I think. Hopefully he has a good summer and trains up a bit.

Apropos of nothing, saw Meltzer blaming Laughton for not stripping Malkin of the puck on that first Pens goal last night rather than Manning for not taking away the pass like he was supposed to. The Pravda element some of the official Flyers writers is always amusing, guys like Manning/AMac/Flip/VdV/Bellemare can do no wrong.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1259 by Rogers Pancreas » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:33 pm

Metzler's been towing the company line for the better part of two years, now. Fuck him, the trash spouting, recycling bin populatour.

I also want to say, Claude GIroux's "playoff struggles" include all of two shit series. Before that, he was the king. People need to get smart, and realize the impact of SMALL EFFING SAMPLE SIZES. It doesn't matter if you're Lindros, Lemieux, Forsberg, or Gretzky, regression is going to happen with enough games. And, he's experiencing it. He's not a choker. He's not clutch. He's just Claude Giroux, and he's still better than 95% of the players in the NHL.

And if you want to bring up nonsense like "success", you can chew glass and eat bleach right fucking now, because I've seen that all before. Lindros ghosted in the playoffs against the Detroit Red Wings, but one of those teams had half a doze Hall of Famers while the other team had none outside of el Capitan. In hindsight, isn't obvious who was going to win that Stanley Cup?

BE. SMARTER. PEOPLE.

PLEASE.

For the love of all that is good and holy.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1260 by Hovercraft » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:54 pm

Apropos of nothing, saw Meltzer blaming Laughton for not stripping Malkin of the puck on that first Pens goal last night rather than Manning for not taking away the pass like he was supposed to. The Pravda element some of the official Flyers writers is always amusing, guys like Manning/AMac/Flip/VdV/Bellemare can do no wrong.


I wish I had a gif of Manning on that Pk, he looked so comical waving his stick frantically.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1261 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:25 am

We all agree Hak's make or break is next season right? With a couple more prospects coming up and potentially Hextall getting an actual 3rd line the team should be improved. If the team struggles or limps into the post season and has a first round exit I could see Hak getting canned.

Simmonds has to go, I love the guy but Patrick has taken his PP minutes on the first line and our PP is fine for the most part. He holds value if you can trade him for a legit 3rd C or a good draft/package you take the deal easily IMO.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1262 by Hovercraft » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:11 am

Hagg on playing tonight:

""About time," Hagg said. "I'm looking forward to it tomorrow. Hopefully, I can bring something to the team, some energy. I think it's perfect and I can't wait to go in and show what I can bring to the team.""

Pretty bold of him to say that. Pretty much calling Hak out.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1263 by CantSeeColors » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:58 am

Konecny HypeTrain Captain wrote:We all agree Hak's make or break is next season right? With a couple more prospects coming up and potentially Hextall getting an actual 3rd line the team should be improved. If the team struggles or limps into the post season and has a first round exit I could see Hak getting canned.

Simmonds has to go, I love the guy but Patrick has taken his PP minutes on the first line and our PP is fine for the most part. He holds value if you can trade him for a legit 3rd C or a good draft/package you take the deal easily IMO.

I wouldn't say that at all unless Hextall pushes his chips in and signs Tavares or trades for Doughty or something. If, for example, Hextall tinkers around the edges, more kids are worked into the lineup and into more meaningful minutes, some of them show well, and the team still makes a first round exit, I think Hak survives the year but it says nothing about his long term prospects.

As for Hagg's comments, what else is he going to say? I'd be concerned if he wasn't champing at the bit to play.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1264 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:45 am

I fucking love Scandinavians. They are so direct, and our media is so unaccustomed to it.

Was that way with Sami, and with Kimmo.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1265 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:48 am

His longterm prospects are nonexistent, and his playoff legacy will ensure it. He may survive for a season or two more. But, even that's debatable.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1266 by FlyHigh » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:45 am

Yeah, unless the goaltending falls apart (always a possibility), think it's fair to expect some fairly significant strides to be made next season.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1267 by CantSeeColors » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 am

Rogers Pancreas wrote:His longterm prospects are nonexistent, and his playoff legacy will ensure it. He may survive for a season or two more. But, even that's debatable.

I mean, none of us can actually project what his coaching looks like if he doesn't have a roster half full with crappy players.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1268 by jester » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:26 pm

Rogers Pancreas wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:
jester wrote:I have zero faith Myers can remain healthy at this point.


Yeah that's a fair critique and a pretty important question for the org going forward. I'd tend to lean on the "cautious optimism" side in that none of these injuries are of the catastrophic variety, but he wouldn't be the first guy that lost a career due to inability to stay healthy.

No, it's really not. This is coming from a Sammy Watkins booster-club member mind you.

Virtually every player in the NHL misses games at one point or another for some reason or other. (Kind of a weird statement, but I think you know what I'm saying.) If they didn't, the whole iron-man streak wouldn't be a thing - it would be the norm. There are some issues that have proven themselves to be... problematic - concussions, groin, back, etc. But, for the most part, injuries are a roll of the dice, and as a general rule of thumb you deal with them as they come. You do not gamble away top-end potential for fear of injuries. You ride it out, and let history prove you wrong.


Myers hasnt just "missed some games." It has been a consistent problem for two years running. I'm not saying they should trade him away, but I am saying that the Flyers simply cannot head into next season expecting much from him.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1269 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:26 pm

jester wrote:
Rogers Pancreas wrote:
FlyHigh wrote:
Yeah that's a fair critique and a pretty important question for the org going forward. I'd tend to lean on the "cautious optimism" side in that none of these injuries are of the catastrophic variety, but he wouldn't be the first guy that lost a career due to inability to stay healthy.

No, it's really not. This is coming from a Sammy Watkins booster-club member mind you.

Virtually every player in the NHL misses games at one point or another for some reason or other. (Kind of a weird statement, but I think you know what I'm saying.) If they didn't, the whole iron-man streak wouldn't be a thing - it would be the norm. There are some issues that have proven themselves to be... problematic - concussions, groin, back, etc. But, for the most part, injuries are a roll of the dice, and as a general rule of thumb you deal with them as they come. You do not gamble away top-end potential for fear of injuries. You ride it out, and let history prove you wrong.


Myers hasnt just "missed some games." It has been a consistent problem for two years running. I'm not saying they should trade him away, but I am saying that the Flyers simply cannot head into next season expecting much from him.

I'm not going to lie. It's more than a little funny, reading "consistent problem" and "two years running" in the same sentence.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1270 by Hovercraft » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:00 pm

I don't really care about Myers misc injuries this year, but his concussions his last year in junior are much more concerning.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1271 by jester » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Rogers Pancreas wrote:
jester wrote:
Rogers Pancreas wrote:No, it's really not. This is coming from a Sammy Watkins booster-club member mind you.

Virtually every player in the NHL misses games at one point or another for some reason or other. (Kind of a weird statement, but I think you know what I'm saying.) If they didn't, the whole iron-man streak wouldn't be a thing - it would be the norm. There are some issues that have proven themselves to be... problematic - concussions, groin, back, etc. But, for the most part, injuries are a roll of the dice, and as a general rule of thumb you deal with them as they come. You do not gamble away top-end potential for fear of injuries. You ride it out, and let history prove you wrong.


Myers hasnt just "missed some games." It has been a consistent problem for two years running. I'm not saying they should trade him away, but I am saying that the Flyers simply cannot head into next season expecting much from him.

I'm not going to lie. It's more than a little funny, reading "consistent problem" and "two years running" in the same sentence.


That's about half of his relevant hockey playing life.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1272 by jester » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:11 pm

Hovercraft wrote:I don't really care about Myers misc injuries this year, but his concussions his last year in junior are much more concerning.


Concussion and shoulder the year before, right?

The thing is, some guys are, in fact, "injury probe" and we don't have a lot of reason for why. Is Neuvirth hurt all the time because he fails to do something? Reality is probably a bit of bad luck, bad genetics (Lindros clan!), and a cumulative effect.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1273 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:07 pm

jester wrote:
Hovercraft wrote:I don't really care about Myers misc injuries this year, but his concussions his last year in junior are much more concerning.


Concussion and shoulder the year before, right?

The thing is, some guys are, in fact, "injury probe" and we don't have a lot of reason for why. Is Neuvirth hurt all the time because he fails to do something? Reality is probably a bit of bad luck, bad genetics (Lindros clan!), and a cumulative effect.

True, but you can't bet on these things with any level of confidence. They are, as far as you and I are concerned, random. We can only sit back, and hope that it all works out in our favor.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1274 by Sweet Dee » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:31 pm

What are we playing the devils with the freakin air horn?
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1275 by FlyHigh » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:05 pm

The fact that they won that game with Filppula at 1C and the biggest goal of the game coming from Filppula-Lehtera on the PK...hockey man, what more can you say?
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1276 by MiD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:07 pm

this team makes no sense
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1277 by CantSeeColors » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:29 pm

Filppula at 1C actually does kind of make sense if G and voracek are the wings. He's still a smart player with good hands, so if other guys do the legwork to carry the puck up the ice he actually looks ok
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1278 by chaosof99 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 pm

Holy shit they actually won. Holy crap Couturier scored the winning goal. Holy crap Filppula and Lehtera actually did something useful.
Only bad thing is that Neuvirth looked absolutely terrible on the two goals against, but he also had some nice saves too.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1279 by Rogers Pancreas » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:56 pm

Get Couturier, Giroux and Provorov in the Lazarus pit immediately.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1280 by Rogers Pancreas » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:01 am

By the way, the dives in Pittsburgh were terribad tonight. And I know this because NBC called those fuckers out!
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1281 by FlyHigh » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:08 am

5-1 in PPs really did not reflect the game. Kind of missed the JJ call on this one just for the “left-handed larceny” he would have broken out when Neuvirth stoned Sid at the end.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1282 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:28 am

I said the same thing CsC about Filp, G and Voracek can carry that line and Couturier at C at least gives us another line that won't get steamrolled.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1283 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 am

FlyHigh wrote:5-1 in PPs really did not reflect the game. Kind of missed the JJ call on this one just for the “left-handed larceny” he would have broken out when Neuvirth stoned Sid at the end.




4:52
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1284 by Hovercraft » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:39 am

What were the other lines? Laughton-Couturier-Simmonds and Raffl-Patrick-Konecny? I only saw the first period and highlights.
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Re: RE: Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1285 by MiD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:44 am

Hovercraft wrote:What were the other lines? Laughton-Couturier-Simmonds and Raffl-Patrick-Konecny? I only saw the first period and highlights.
you are correct
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1286 by Rogers Pancreas » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:23 am

bad


not as bad


seriously dumb
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1287 by Hovercraft » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:34 am

Hahaha Malkin tried to slew foot him and it backfired big time.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1288 by Rogers Pancreas » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:36 am

Speaking only in terms of the (Philadelphia Flyers) post-season, Claude Giroux is 11th all-time in goals scored, 7th in assists, and 9th in points. He is tied for 31st in games played...
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1289 by CantSeeColors » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:01 am

How close is he to The guys in front of him? He should have a decent number of playoff games left in his career if some of these prospects pan out
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1290 by Rogers Pancreas » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Clarke 119
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Barber 108
MacLeish 105
LeClair 74
Briere 72
Kerr 70
Leach 69
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1291 by CantSeeColors » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:00 pm

Seeing briere there brings back memories
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1292 by Hovercraft » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:12 pm

Malkin out, Provorov in. Good news for us but Brassard is still a good 2nd line center. Penguins 3rd line will be a lot weaker though.

Actually sounds like Sheahan will go up with Kessel and Brassard will stay with Sheary and Rust.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1293 by Hovercraft » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:23 pm

Woo Couturier! Great work by Laughton and Simmonds too. We needed the first goal. Flyers have come out hitting too.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1294 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:26 pm

Flyers are fucking buzzing right now, can't give up that counter goal
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1295 by Hovercraft » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Ugh 1-1. Crosby.

On a defensive zone faceoff, why can't Giroux take it instead of Flip?

LOL Jesus 2-1 pens . Brutal play by Giroux, Ghost, and the rest of them.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1296 by FlyHigh » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Filppula loses Sid in front...awesome.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1297 by Hovercraft » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Macdonald the sniper! 2-2

Simmonds looks much better than games 1-3. Very engaged.

Ugh Gudas lucky that wasn't a penalty shot call. We get a chance to change lines during the 6 on 5 and Hak outs the 4th line out.... Luckily Read was able to play the puck.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1298 by FlyHigh » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm

That sequence by Manning and Gudas was high comedy.
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1299 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:52 pm

I literally laughed at Gudas just lying on the ice like he was dead
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Re: Philadelphia Wheat Kings 2017-18 GDT!!!

Post #1300 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Sean Couturier is a very good hockey player

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