Agitators Confused with Power-Forwards.

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Rogers Pancreas
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Agitators Confused with Power-Forwards.

Post #1 by Rogers Pancreas » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:09 pm

Maybe this is just a pet-peeve of mine, but I've always maintained that a power-forward must first and foremost physically intimidate his opposition. It's not enough to be big, powerful, and attack the center of the ice. They need to bring an element of fear (or respect) to the ice, when they hop the boards. [note: IMO, an agitator brings neither.]

Am I alone in thinking size has little to no bearing on players' labels, whether they be power-forwards or agitators?
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Post #2 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:45 pm

List the forwards of power with whom you take issue.
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Post #3 by Vector » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

I read that as "Alligators Confused with Power-Forwards".

I would guess that someone like Nathan Horton, whos is called a power-forward, but not someone that intimidates anyone. I wouldn't say my problem is with agitators being called power-forwards but with big guys that just push people around without actually hitting anyone. Jarome Iginla has been described as a power-forward but that's just bullshit.
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Post #4 by Cao » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Can you list examples of agitators being called power forwards? To me this is an easy distinction to make.
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Post #5 by Ironchef Chris Wok » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:19 pm

I always thought "power-forwards" did not have to be "intimidating" or "hurt folks", but had to "use strength to generate offense". Like using size to make opponents unable to reach the puck, use size to shield the puck, use strength to seperate pucks off the opposition, and just skate through players. Also strength when battling for net body position.
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Post #6 by Craig » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:51 am

If I'm not mistaken, the term was originally used to describe players who made "power" moves to the net, rather than dekes or passing to generate offence. It had nothing to do with physical intimidation.
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Post #7 by Cao » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:48 am

I think of him more as a power forward. An agitator goes out to start shit. Lucic doesn't really start shit but he will be involved in "scrums".

Generally I think the agitators are the smaller guys like Linseman or Marchand. But Chris Pronger is a pretty damn good one sometimes.
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Post #8 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:53 am

Suffice to say, premieré National Hockey League power forward Maxwell Pacioretty is the game's prémiere power forward.
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Post #9 by Rogers Pancreas » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:17 pm

Cao wrote:Can you list examples of agitators being called power forwards? To me this is an easy distinction to make.
Keith Tkachuk, Kevin Stevens, and Todd Bertuzzi are players that I identify as agitators.

Gordie Howe, Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, and Mark messier are players I identify as power-forwards.
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Post #10 by Cao » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:28 pm

Rogers Pancreas wrote:Keith Tkachuk, Kevin Stevens, and Todd Bertuzzi are players that I identify as agitators.

Gordie Howe, Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, and Mark messier are players I identify as power-forwards.


I would call all of those players power forwards and not really agitators. Like I don't think Keith Tkachuk has ever went out on the ice looking to piss someone off. And Todd Bertuzzi is the definition of a power forward.
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Post #11 by Rogers Pancreas » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:40 pm

Cao wrote:I would call all of those players power forwards and not really agitators. Like I don't think Keith Tkachuk has ever went out on the ice looking to piss someone off. And Todd Bertuzzi is the definition of a power forward.
Calling bullshit on Bertuzzi. I saw him stir-up a good deal of shit as an Islander only to skate away completely unscathed. He rarely stuck around to finish what he started, and for being as large as he most definitely can be considered a spot-picker. I didn't see enough of Kevin Stevens to judge, but his fight-card doesn't match his penalty totals which is why I'd throw his hat into the ring. Tocchet, and Neely were small, but I'd consider them power-forwards because they were fearless.
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Post #12 by Cao » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:48 pm

Did you watch Bertuzzi in Vancouver? Everybody was scared of him. He bowled through people to score.

What's the difference between Matt Cooke/Brad Marchand/Alex Burrows (2006-2010) and those "agitators"?
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Post #13 by Rogers Pancreas » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:00 pm

Cao wrote:Did you watch Bertuzzi in Vancouver? Everybody was scared of him. He bowled through people to score.
I'll admit that I didn't, but were people "scared" because they were worried they couldn't defend a player of his stature or were they physically intimidated? It's critical, because (I know this is arbitrary) being big and skilled is not the same as a "power-forward". I don't think anyone here contested TSN and the likes naming Lindros or Neely the prototypical power-forwards, whereas there would be a significant debate if one were to identify Nash as the premier power-forward of our time.

What's the difference between Matt Cooke/Brad Marchand/Alex Burrows (2006-2010) and those "agitators"?
Aside from the players' overall height, I'd say nothing. And that brings us back to my original question. Should size have such an overwhelming influence in how players are labeled?
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Post #14 by Ironchef Chris Wok » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 pm

What about a guy like Dino Ciccarelli?
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Post #15 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:20 pm

Ironchef Chris Wok wrote:What about a guy like Dino Ciccarelli?


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Post #16 by Cao » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:46 pm

Rogers Pancreas wrote:I'll admit that I didn't, but were people "scared" because they were worried they couldn't defend a player of his stature or were they physically intimidated? It's critical, because (I know this is arbitrary) being big and skilled is not the same as a "power-forward". I don't think anyone here contested TSN and the likes naming Lindros or Neely the prototypical power-forwards, whereas there would be a significant debate if one were to identify Nash as the premier power-forward of our time.

Aside from the players' overall height, I'd say nothing. And that brings us back to my original question. Should size have such an overwhelming influence in how players are labeled?


Like I said, Bertuzzi would bowl through people. Nobody could outpower him. I don't think anyone is intimidated, as that's a trait that's probably filtered out once you get to the NHL, but it was extremely difficult to stop him.

Max Lapierre is 6'2 and ripped, but he's not a power forward and absolutely an agitator. It's the style of play. A big part of being an agitator is trash talking and doing the little things to irk an opponent. Jaarko Ruutu goading Phaneuf to fight, only to trip him once he drops his gloves? Agitation. Todd Bertuzzi involved in a scrum after the whistle? Not agitation. In fact, tons of people are involved in a scrum after the whistle.

I think there's a size threshold for being a power forward. You pretty much have to be at least 6'1. If you are 6'1, you better be built like a truck. Otherwise, most of them are clocking in at 6'3. You have to be. In order to physically overpower people and use your skill, you need to be larger than the average player.

(For reference, to me, a power forward uses his size and skill to score goals.)
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Post #17 by MP » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:22 pm

Rod "the bod" Brind'Amour.
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Post #18 by IcE ColD » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:26 am

The Bytown Boozer wrote:He does somewhat resemble an alligator.


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