Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

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Rogers Pancreas
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Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #1 by Rogers Pancreas » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:53 pm

Can someone explain to me the rationale of ranking Mark Messier ahead of Bobby Clarke? Is it the goal-scoring, the longevity, The Guarantee, something else entirely, or some combination of it all?
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #2 by Boring Choice #2 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:00 pm

The guarantee was bullshit. The leadership was bullshit. He was a great all around player. He wasn't the offensive player Clarke was, but he was a better all around player... at least in his Oilers days. I hate ranking players as if it means something. They were both great players who were no brainer HoFers. Just leave it at that.
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #3 by chicpea » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:06 pm

"Mess" is known to have been a very fair gentleman to people employed in motor inn drinking establishments throughout NW Edmonton whereas Clarke had certain "intangibles", such as the willingness to dismiss Roger Neilson, who was allegedly off sick for the weekend.
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #4 by PredsFan77 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:10 pm

they both suck
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #5 by MP » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:00 pm

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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #6 by mcphee » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 am

Boring Choice #2 wrote:The guarantee was bullshit. The leadership was bullshit. He was a great all around player. He wasn't the offensive player Clarke was, but he was a better all around player... at least in his Oilers days. I hate ranking players as if it means something. They were both great players who were no brainer HoFers. Just leave it at that.

Clarke was a great player to learn the game by. I saw Perreault play junior and he was as entertaining a player as I'd ever seen We were 14 and knew he was great. After seeing him break n in Buffalo, seeing how Clarke played in Philly, you learned that the most exciting wasn't always the best. Perreault was faster , bigger, better in measurable skills, but Clarke's team was going to win more often than not.

Messier was between Clarke and Perreault, he had the obvious explosiveness in his game, was more noticeable from a purely entertainment point of view. Messier was as vicious as Clarke but more as an intimidating force. I think Clarke ranks as highly as he does because he just worked harder than anyone else ever did, shift after shift. Not many could ever match that part of the game.
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #7 by Craig » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:14 am

Similar at their peaks, but Messier did it for a lot longer, and had far more playoff success, including a Smythe trophy. Granted, that had a lot to do with the teams he played for, but those are the breaks.

He also had better offensive years with much higher goal totals. I know, different eras and all.
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Re: Bobby Clarke versus Mark Messier.

Post #8 by Rogers Pancreas » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:12 pm

Craig wrote:Similar at their peaks, but Messier did it for a lot longer, and had far more playoff success, including a Smythe trophy. Granted, that had a lot to do with the teams he played for, but those are the breaks.

He also had better offensive years with much higher goal totals. I know, different eras and all.

I admittedly never had a chance to see either play live, so I can only pour over the record books. But I'm still struggling to see it.

Clarke never finished top-10 in goals, but he did have nine top-10 finishes in assists (twice finishing first overall), as well as seven top-10 finishes in points scored (twice finishing second overall.) And that was while playing for Shero's Flyers.

Messier had four seasons where he finished top-10 in goals, six season where he finished top-10 in assists (finishing second once), and six seasons where he finished top-10 in points (finishing second overall once.) Messier had two very productive seasons at ages 35 and 36 respectively, at which point Clarke had already retired in his career, but beyond those years he was very ordinary.

I agree with most of what you said, especially the part about the Smythe, and the playoffs; It's not a connection I can make, though.
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