General Hockey Shit

And some artists..
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3951 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Thanks. I’ve been working out
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Re: RE: Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3952 by TittiesNBeer » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:09 pm

mcphee wrote:
Dog wrote:People seem tense, mcphee. What’s going on?

Well Not I understand but I thought Beaker was joking. There’s no modernization push on 690. The premise was silly I assumed it was just trying to get a rise
Connor McKenna is on the morning show.

Sean campbell and mitch gallo are fancy stats guys. Joey alfieri too.

Melnyk has beem on the radio forever but recently he seems to lean towards favouring teams built on puck possession and offence.

Marc dumont and andrew bednarowski are regular guests on the show and on weekends. Eyes on the prize is probably.the biggest english language habs site now.

Seems there are a a lot subscribing to the new school.there.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3953 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:29 pm

You are defining guys to your narrative rather than reality
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3954 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:31 pm

I can see if Gallo and Campbell define themselves that way.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3955 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:34 pm

Puck Possession and offense hardly define modern thinking. Melnick has been a numbers guy forever. Doesn’t , to my knowledge , apply them to hockey in a heavy way
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3956 by TittiesNBeer » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:25 pm

I think the fact that they make fun of the "character", "grit", and "attitude" comments and don't just take these narratives at face value is part of their rejection of old school ideas.

The one guy on 690 who seems to still be old school is Nilan, but thats not surprising.

Again though its not just 690, its the Montreal English media, and I'd include the EOTP guys, and the Athletic guys, and people like Berkshire as part of that conversation too.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3957 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:46 pm

The old idea crap is a false narrative. They make fun of Bergevin's comments because the team sucked so he's the target. Not while he's on I noticed. I did notice that Nilan , who had slaughtered Max P all season, had him on his show yesterday. That's what a real guy does. Faces the guy he was toughest on.

For your point to make sense , you would have to have an idea of French media content. Berkshire writes for RDS doesn't he ? Not sure who does bits on 98.5 or the other stations. Rejection of 'old school ideas' ? Do you blush when you type stuff like that ?
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3958 by TittiesNBeer » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:54 pm

Rds has berkshite... but they also have old school types.

You can say there isnt a change happening in the nhl.. but that is denying the realities.

1) fighters are gone.
2) the old school defensive defenceman whose job is to hit and block shots ate a dying breed (but we gave one a shitload of money on a 5 year deal)
3) the steve ott, Dwight king, type gritty fourth liners are being replaced by speed and skill.

The league has never been faster than it is.. and the players we talked about with grit and character and heart and who were the faces of those narratives are being replaced.

It seems our management hasnt recognized that as quickly as other teams. And that is where much of bergevin's criticism comes from. And when he does a press conference and his #1 most used word is "attitude" it comes across as ton deaf to those who.see the way the game is changing.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3959 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:07 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:Rds has berkshite... but they also have old school types.

You can say there isnt a change happening in the nhl.. but that is denying the realities.

1) fighters are gone.
2) the old school defensive defenceman whose job is to hit and block shots ate a dying breed (but we gave one a shitload of money on a 5 year deal)
3) the steve ott, Dwight king, type gritty fourth liners are being replaced by speed and skill.

The league has never been faster than it is.. and the players we talked about with grit and character and heart and who were the faces of those narratives are being replaced.

It seems our management hasnt recognized that as quickly as other teams. And that is where much of bergevin's criticism comes from. And when he does a press conference and his #1 most used word is "attitude" it comes across as ton deaf to those who.see the way the game is changing.

why the fuck are you typing this ? Of course the league/game has changed. It always does. It's sports, games evolve. It isn't old school, it's the way it's always been. Character will always matter. You need to blend talent with character. Everyone knows that. It's hardly new. They aren't mutually exclusive. Bergevin poorly communicated his thoughts the other day. Apparently he did a better job later on, when he did 98.5, but you're arguing the GM's job which has been decided. You decided that English media had become mean spirited because they embraced the modern game while the French media apparently doesn't, so they're more respectful.

Why type points already made ? By everyone.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3960 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm

So Price to the Flyers for who? Image
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3961 by Retardé S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:34 pm

To me there's a difference between the fancy stats movement and the reality of hockey today. Dany Dubé has been making the same analysis for the last three years and I consider him one of the most level headed hockey analysts in the media when it comes to the game and how it's played. Teams that go far score 3 goals per game and teams are adopting a more offensive style (Specialized offensive tacticians and skill coaches are getting hired, puck possession is more important than ever). It's not a breakthrough analysis, but it holds without fail the last decade or so. The game has become so tight and goaltending so good, that a tilt to offense and individualities is no longer a luxury or an option, it's a necessity. Now I often don't agree when people talk about systems (unless you have such a basic system like Therrien). I think the key is about recruitment philosophy (amateur AND professional) and the execution is a result from both vision and ambition from management. I have the impression, from the many times he criticized his team for aspects of the game that lead to possession hockey, that at least Julien thinks the same. I don't know where the french vs english media thing comes into this, I just don't see it.

I don't know if our management has been late to recognize or acknowledge this, but they sure as hell don't give the impression by what they say and actions that they have. It's hard to blame people on the outside for having such perception when the matter of fact is that the results we see today, talk on their own.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3962 by Retardé S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Shawnathan Horcoff wrote:So Price to the Flyers for who? Image


Price to Vancouver for cap space :vince:
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Re: RE: Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3963 by TittiesNBeer » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:44 pm

mcphee wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:Rds has berkshite... but they also have old school types.

You can say there isnt a change happening in the nhl.. but that is denying the realities.

1) fighters are gone.
2) the old school defensive defenceman whose job is to hit and block shots ate a dying breed (but we gave one a shitload of money on a 5 year deal)
3) the steve ott, Dwight king, type gritty fourth liners are being replaced by speed and skill.

The league has never been faster than it is.. and the players we talked about with grit and character and heart and who were the faces of those narratives are being replaced.

It seems our management hasnt recognized that as quickly as other teams. And that is where much of bergevin's criticism comes from. And when he does a press conference and his #1 most used word is "attitude" it comes across as ton deaf to those who.see the way the game is changing.

why the fuck are you typing this ? Of course the league/game has changed. It always does. It's sports, games evolve. It isn't old school, it's the way it's always been. Character will always matter. You need to blend talent with character. Everyone knows that. It's hardly new. They aren't mutually exclusive. Bergevin poorly communicated his thoughts the other day. Apparently he did a better job later on, when he did 98.5, but you're arguing the GM's job which has been decided. You decided that English media had become mean spirited because they embraced the modern game while the French media apparently doesn't, so they're more respectful.

Why type points already made ? By everyone.
Mumu said.they were mean spirited. I didnt.

I merely pointed out that the english media seem to be movong towards a new school view of the nhl. This is something bergevins words havent expressed (multiple press conferences) nor have his moves (douglas murray, steve ott, dwight king, karl alzner, jordie benn, subban for alzner) and so they disagree with how.hes running the club. I dont see them being personal with him. I just see a vlash of philosophies
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3964 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:52 pm

Retardé S wrote:To me there's a difference between the fancy stats movement and the reality of hockey today. Dany Dubé has been making the same analysis for the last three years and I consider him one of the most level headed hockey analysts in the media when it comes to the game and how it's played. Teams that go far score 3 goals per game and teams are adopting a more offensive style (Specialized offensive tacticians and skill coaches are getting hired, puck possession is more important than ever). It's not a breakthrough analysis, but it holds without fail the last decade or so. The game has become so tight and goaltending so good, that a tilt to offense and individualities is no longer a luxury or an option, it's a necessity. Now I often don't agree when people talk about systems (unless you have such a basic system like Therrien). I think the key is about recruitment philosophy (amateur AND professional) and the execution is a result from both vision and ambition from management. I have the impression, from the many times he criticized his team for aspects of the game that lead to possession hockey, that at least Julien thinks the same. I don't know where the french vs english media thing comes into this, I just don't see it.

I don't know if our management has been late to recognize or acknowledge this, but they sure as hell don't give the impression by what they say and actions that they have. It's hard to blame people on the outside for having such perception when the matter of fact is that the results we see today, talk on their own.

I find the speed of the game now, almost takes away from the offense. Speed can close lanes as much as it can take advantage of them. I agree that coaches work hader to generate offense or find ways to generate. Laviolette gets credit for his all out offense, but I don't see him that different from his Carolina days. Pressure the puck, get possession then everybody is on offense, lose it, then everyone on defense. Buy in and finding ways to get players in the right situation is a big deal now. The talent levels are close enough that being on the same page is huge. I thought Julien did a good job this year bringing some players along. You could see a light going on with 27&92 but what I found odd was how players on a Julien coached team abandoned positional play. The gap between forwards and d was ridiculous all year. You could drive a Zamboni through the slot this year.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3965 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:53 pm

Retardé S wrote:
Shawnathan Horcoff wrote:So Price to the Flyers for who? Image


Price to Vancouver for cap space :vince:


Use that $18 million total savings for the lottery.

Image
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3966 by Retardé S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:39 pm

mcphee wrote:
Retardé S wrote:To me there's a difference between the fancy stats movement and the reality of hockey today. Dany Dubé has been making the same analysis for the last three years and I consider him one of the most level headed hockey analysts in the media when it comes to the game and how it's played. Teams that go far score 3 goals per game and teams are adopting a more offensive style (Specialized offensive tacticians and skill coaches are getting hired, puck possession is more important than ever). It's not a breakthrough analysis, but it holds without fail the last decade or so. The game has become so tight and goaltending so good, that a tilt to offense and individualities is no longer a luxury or an option, it's a necessity. Now I often don't agree when people talk about systems (unless you have such a basic system like Therrien). I think the key is about recruitment philosophy (amateur AND professional) and the execution is a result from both vision and ambition from management. I have the impression, from the many times he criticized his team for aspects of the game that lead to possession hockey, that at least Julien thinks the same. I don't know where the french vs english media thing comes into this, I just don't see it.

I don't know if our management has been late to recognize or acknowledge this, but they sure as hell don't give the impression by what they say and actions that they have. It's hard to blame people on the outside for having such perception when the matter of fact is that the results we see today, talk on their own.

I find the speed of the game now, almost takes away from the offense. Speed can close lanes as much as it can take advantage of them. I agree that coaches work hader to generate offense or find ways to generate. Laviolette gets credit for his all out offense, but I don't see him that different from his Carolina days. Pressure the puck, get possession then everybody is on offense, lose it, then everyone on defense. Buy in and finding ways to get players in the right situation is a big deal now. The talent levels are close enough that being on the same page is huge. I thought Julien did a good job this year bringing some players along. You could see a light going on with 27&92 but what I found odd was how players on a Julien coached team abandoned positional play. The gap between forwards and d was ridiculous all year. You could drive a Zamboni through the slot this year.


I totally agree. I believe poor puck retrieval and agility to get those pucks out of pressure (a vital component in today's game) did us in. It often put us behind the play and created all sorts of breakdowns. Sticks were always late or inexistent as the puck traveled east/west in our zone. Also, puck support is no longer enough, you need guys that can actually skate the puck out of pressure and create exit lanes (that's where I think individuality comes handy). Juulsen and Mete seem to have that poise and agility you look for, but they're still too young to have a major role with the team. On the offensive side of things, I thought the habs showed good things puck control/management wise, there seemed to be a structure in place to establish the attack both on the PP and even strength, but the guys just had no finish and couldn't create enough movement to breakdown opponents at 5 on 5.

There's a precise need for good skaters and players with puck skills in both restricted/open areas of the ice, players that have the ability to create space and time for themselves and their teammates (and finishing for god's sake).
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3967 by Retardé S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:40 pm

Shawnathan Horcoff wrote:
Retardé S wrote:
Shawnathan Horcoff wrote:So Price to the Flyers for who? Image


Price to Vancouver for cap space :vince:


Use that $18 million total savings for the lottery.

Image


Buy Dahlin, buy Svechnikov.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3968 by Mufasa » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Dog wrote:That’s like the nicest thing anybody has ever said to Beaker.


No, that the worst thing anyone has ever said about the media.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3969 by Mufasa » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

Retardé S wrote:To me there's a difference between the fancy stats movement and the reality of hockey today. Dany Dubé has been making the same analysis for the last three years and I consider him one of the most level headed hockey analysts in the media when it comes to the game and how it's played. Teams that go far score 3 goals per game and teams are adopting a more offensive style (Specialized offensive tacticians and skill coaches are getting hired, puck possession is more important than ever). It's not a breakthrough analysis, but it holds without fail the last decade or so. The game has become so tight and goaltending so good, that a tilt to offense and individualities is no longer a luxury or an option, it's a necessity. Now I often don't agree when people talk about systems (unless you have such a basic system like Therrien). I think the key is about recruitment philosophy (amateur AND professional) and the execution is a result from both vision and ambition from management. I have the impression, from the many times he criticized his team for aspects of the game that lead to possession hockey, that at least Julien thinks the same. I don't know where the french vs english media thing comes into this, I just don't see it.

I don't know if our management has been late to recognize or acknowledge this, but they sure as hell don't give the impression by what they say and actions that they have. It's hard to blame people on the outside for having such perception when the matter of fact is that the results we see today, talk on their own.


Vote for this mens!
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3970 by Mufasa » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:57 pm

And also about the english media being venomous, it's not like i hate the english media historically, i always listen to Melnyk in the afternoon. I was a big Pierre Mcguirre fan till last season.

They just went bonker and sound more like a student radio runned by angry white mens than an actual sport radio. I can live with Ferraro asking how in the world is Bergevin still a GM, because it comes from a good place and done in a professionnal way. I'm sour because the drive show used to be a nice place.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3971 by mcphee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:02 pm

Mufasa wrote:And also about the english media being venomous, it's not like i hate the english media historically, i always listen to Melnyk in the afternoon. I was a big Pierre Mcguirre fan till last season.

They just went bonker and sound more like a student radio runned by angry white mens than an actual sport radio. I can live with Ferraro asking how in the world is Bergevin still a GM, because it comes from a good place and done in a professionnal way. I'm sour because the drive show used to be a nice place.


I’m curious as to what they do when Mitch decides he’s had enough. I remember when he and Elliot Price did a 5.30 sports show on CJAD in the 80s. I don’t see anyone to be the station grown up
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3972 by Craig » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:18 pm

Why are you guys harping on the Habs for their attitude towards possession? They were like third in the league in that for the first half of the year. Even after the team quit this year they ended up with positive possession stats. The team Bergevin put together downright dominated possession, but couldn't shoot and couldn't make a save for the first three months.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3973 by Retardé S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:32 pm

Craig wrote:Why are you guys harping on the Habs for their attitude towards possession? They were like third in the league in that for the first half of the year. Even after the team quit this year they ended up with positive possession stats. The team Bergevin put together downright dominated possession, but couldn't shoot and couldn't make a save for the first three months.

Craig, leave the hockey talk to the big boys. :paulrus:
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3974 by Mufasa » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:32 pm

mcphee wrote:
Mufasa wrote:And also about the english media being venomous, it's not like i hate the english media historically, i always listen to Melnyk in the afternoon. I was a big Pierre Mcguirre fan till last season.

They just went bonker and sound more like a student radio runned by angry white mens than an actual sport radio. I can live with Ferraro asking how in the world is Bergevin still a GM, because it comes from a good place and done in a professionnal way. I'm sour because the drive show used to be a nice place.


I’m curious as to what they do when Mitch decides he’s had enough. I remember when he and Elliot Price did a 5.30 sports show on CJAD in the 80s. I don’t see anyone to be the station grown up


They must have a plan, i don't know everyone at the station as they are all named mitch and have the same voice, but some people seems to host correctly when mitch is away or on other shows. They won't give it to Marinaro, that's a given.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3975 by PPJ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:12 am

I realized today, that I may well hate hockey
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3976 by mcphee » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:25 am

Craig wrote:Why are you guys harping on the Habs for their attitude towards possession? They were like third in the league in that for the first half of the year. Even after the team quit this year they ended up with positive possession stats. The team Bergevin put together downright dominated possession, but couldn't shoot and couldn't make a save for the first three months.
Yeah well
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3977 by TittiesNBeer » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:44 pm

So 690 took down the interview Melnick did with Bergevin off the website.

When asked on twitter, the producer of the show says he is not allowed to talk about why.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3978 by TittiesNBeer » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:13 pm

Monday: This organization needs more transparency. 



Wednesday: Hey, radio affiliate wiht the contract to broadcast games, take down the interview where our GM looks bad. 
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3979 by mcphee » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:25 pm

See, now you're getting to why the station seems to hold animus towards the organization. This has been building a long time, probably Gainey era is when it took hold.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3980 by TittiesNBeer » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:27 pm

mcphee wrote:See, now you're getting to why the station seems to hold animus towards the organization. This has been building a long time, probably Gainey era is when it took hold.


Wait, what?

Why does the radio station have to take down this interview?

Why is this the radio station being unfair to the organization?

here is the interview, what is wrong with it?

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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3981 by Mufasa » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Image
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3982 by mcphee » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:38 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:
mcphee wrote:See, now you're getting to why the station seems to hold animus towards the organization. This has been building a long time, probably Gainey era is when it took hold.


Wait, what?

Why does the radio station have to take down this interview?

Why is this the radio station being unfair to the organization?

here is the interview, what is wrong with it?



The organization is and has been extremely heavy handed and media unfriendly. Player availability, staff availability has been getting worse over the years. Their pr staff and upper management has done little over the years to remedy this. Under Molson's time, they seem more community involved but have done little towards being communicative. If Molson ordered it taken down, it would seem to go against the words recently out of his mouth . I thought this regime would be out there more, but that hasn't been the case. To my recollection, we've not heard from anyone other than Bergevin and Timmins over the years. No Mellanby,Dudley, seldom asst. coaches, very little voice. The most that I see, or have seen, is the odd Saturday night appearance on Antechambre by players but it's usually strictly human interest stuff. So the way the media treats the media, especially the rights holder, is a source of conflict. I would think that the station thought that Bell spending big on it bought more than it has.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3983 by Dog » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:44 pm

So the rumoured Bergevin tapes are real?
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3984 by Mufasa » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:45 pm

Much like the tapes of Brolieu beating his mother.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3985 by Retardé S » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:48 pm

Mufasa wrote:Much like the tapes of Brolieu beating his mother.


I was there
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3986 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:00 pm

PPJ wrote:I realized today, that I may well hate hockey


You sure it's not just Beaker?
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3987 by PPJ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:34 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:
PPJ wrote:I realized today, that I may well hate hockey


You sure it's not just Beaker?


Kind of smirking when the stats nerd was one of the dead in the Broncos tragedy kind of did it for me.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3988 by TittiesNBeer » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:38 pm

Now the interview is back up...
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3989 by PPJ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:43 pm

Oh, happy day...
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3990 by Retardé S » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:57 pm

Image

The habs PR machine wont fool me
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3991 by Dog » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:07 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:Now the interview is back up...


Have you checked to see if it has been amended/tampered with?
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3992 by Retardé S » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:17 pm

I hope for Bergevin's sake they cut the part where he rambled about Chara being tired two seasons ago and maybe Alzner is tired now.

I really hope they did.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3993 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:44 am

Retardé S wrote:I hope for Bergevin's sake they cut the part where he rambled about Chara being tired two seasons ago and maybe Alzner is tired now.

I really hope they did.


Good heavens.
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3994 by Retardé S » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:08 pm

So rumor is Sly replaces JJD.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3995 by AD » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:15 pm

Oh thank god. He'll stop viciating the youthz.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3996 by Mufasa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:22 pm

For all we know Sly could be a good ass coach.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3997 by Retardé S » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:22 pm

He's an expert is ass coaching
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3998 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:47 pm

Mufasa wrote:For all we know Sly could be a good ass coach.


He wasn't in Colorado.
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #3999 by Retardé S » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 pm

Image
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Re: Regular Season General Hockey Shit

Post #4000 by Mufasa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:17 pm

Lololol

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