GDT 51: Again with these guys?

And some artists..
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Re: RE: Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #51 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Macbeth wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:After 6 years I'm just ready for someone new.

Poile's been in Nashville for sixty three years.
Bring me paul Fenton
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #52 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:30 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:After 6 years I'm just ready for someone new.


TWSS!

/AD
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #53 by Twitter bArt » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:31 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:After 6 years I'm just ready for someone new.



Last year Dorion was a boy genius

Poile has been given 20 years.

Fids, Weber was not a win now trade

My spidey senses tell me, Molson was as much behind the PK trade as anybody else.

Unused cap space does not necessarily win you games, but it can help you at trade deadline and draft day. Better unused cap space than silly contracts to appease fans who want cap space used up to make it look like we're competing.

Radulov was given ample opportunity to sign here, he chose else where as is his right. There was not much on the market last summer in terms of UFA's.

I do agree with Retarder...I am hoping they start drafting guys with more offensive upside as opposed to safe picks.
:mkbét::lr: :lr:

OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone

It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.

Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."

...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...

Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.


:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #54 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:31 pm

Sorry nanners. I tried to stop it, but the jokes MUST go on!
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #55 by Twitter bArt » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:37 pm

this is why he won't let you get close to him
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #56 by Retardé S » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:59 pm

Dog wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Dog wrote:I can buy that he was screwed by Radulov. But he had to have a credible plan B in place (not Hemsky) seeing how difficult the negos were going. He didn’t get screwed by Markov, though.

Bottom line, a net result of letting Markov and Radu walk and signing no credible replacements and going in with $8M cap space in a time where you were otherwise going « all in » on win now (ie. Subban-Webber trade) is horrendous management. As in, criminal levels of bad.

What could have been a conceivable Plan B, besides the morning after pill ?

There basically wasn't much on the market and most players got snatched up pretty quickly.

Vanek ?

Justin Williams ?


If there were no other options, he should have offered Radu more I guess. That would be logical. You don’t win with unused cap space. But it’s not just Radu, that could be explained and forgiven. It’s a pattern, I think. Why was Markov not resigned? He signed Streit right after Markov went to KHL. How does that make sense? Would Markov not have been useful to the habs? Was it Bergevin painting himself into a corner and not wanting to back down in negos? The Subban contract looked to have needed the owner to step in and tell Bergevin to cave. That’s an assumption on my part, but where the fuck was he going with the Subban negos? Those negos themselves were only needed because he had been such a hardass on the bridge contract. And so on. I’m sensing an inflexible negotiation style. I think he has a propensity to overplay his hand.


Mix that in with bad drafting and an unwillingness to retool after 2015-2016. It could've saved us to an extent had he started the whole process two years ago. Ok, let Subban go, but don't make a lateral trade that marginally improves the team when you have close to no one in the minors to complete the project.

I guess he thought he could add to the Weber trade, but little did he know his prospect pool was dogshit (main reason I want him gone) and there was no way to bolster the lineup in the short term. Then Plekanec declines steadily and your already weak center line becomes comical. The Drouin trade is another one of those "I need to do something" moves. Not a bad trade in itself, but solves nothing.

If you refuse to take a step back, sell and transition when the need arises, then your drafting needs to constantly produce talent to compensate for aging vets you decide to lose for nothing. It's self-imposed wall-cornering.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #57 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm

I tend to sorta think that in a market like mtl you have to go for a playoff spot every year and thus are restricted in your ability to sell to retool. I don’t think that’s on him as much as commercial reality of tv and playoff revenues.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #58 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:05 pm

But whatever, we’re there anywho. No prospects to speak of and an aging core to a team gone to shit. Habs have quite a deep hole to climb out of.

Of course, beaker thought this team was good.

:danson:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #59 by Retardé S » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:06 pm

But tbh, I was in it for another year of pretending had he signed Radu and MarkovImage
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #60 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:06 pm

Of course, we’ll sign Tavares in the summer with the Radu cap space and draft Rasmus with the one year tank and win the cup and all will be well.
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Re: RE: Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #61 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:08 pm

Dog wrote:But whatever, we’re there anywho. No prospects to speak of and an aging core to a team gone to shit. Habs have quite a deep hole to climb out of.

Of course, beaker thought this team was good.

:danson:

:why:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #62 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:09 pm

Retarder S wrote:But tbh, I was in it for another year of pretending had he signed Radu and MarkovImage


We had an aging team that had an outside chance -ie. Top third of league, but not top 5-6. Johnny quit, Joey got married and it all went to shit. Our not quite window collapsed.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #63 by Retardé S » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:09 pm

Dog wrote:I tend to sorta think that in a market like mtl you have to go for a playoff spot every year and thus are restricted in your ability to sell to retool. I don’t think that on him as much as commercial reality of tv and playoff revenues.


That's true and that's why I'm not holding my breath for the next idiot that comes in :donger:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #64 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 pm

Drouin pacioretty and price all having horrible seasons, and weber breaking his foot . All in the same year doesnt help
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #65 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:11 pm

Retarder S wrote:
Dog wrote:I tend to sorta think that in a market like mtl you have to go for a playoff spot every year and thus are restricted in your ability to sell to retool. I don’t think that on him as much as commercial reality of tv and playoff revenues.


That's true and that's why I'm not holding my breath for the next idiot that comes in :donger:


Me neither. Let’s watch Tarkovsky movies, brother.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #66 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:13 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:Drouin pacioretty and price all having horrible seasons, and weber breaking his foot . All in the same year doesnt help


Is it a coincidence that they are having horrible seasons or does the team lack something essential (ie. Centermens and defensemens)?
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #67 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:19 pm

They play their centermens at wing. :why:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #68 by Dog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:They play their centermens at wing. :why:


If they played their centermens at center, they’d have a winger problem.

:nucks:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #69 by Craig » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:04 pm

Dog wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:Drouin pacioretty and price all having horrible seasons, and weber breaking his foot . All in the same year doesnt help


Is it a coincidence that they are having horrible seasons or does the team lack something essential (ie. Centermens and defensemens)?


For all that we look at and shit on the D now, in previous years it was a strength and all we really did was trade Markov for Alzner this year, which I can understand thinking was only a slight downgrade.

I'm pretty annoyed that Bergevin seems to not understand the value of new NHL Ds.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #70 by AD » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:31 pm

Dog wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:After 6 years I'm just ready for someone new.


TWSS!

/AD


:stare:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #71 by Mufasa » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:39 am

Any GM with Timmins as the head of his amateur scouting would look like a damned fool.

No matter what the plan is or the iq of the GM.

Do you realize that the only two nhl caliber player drafted in the first round since Patch are Galchenyuk and Sergachev? That's 10 years of drafting. It's not like Bergevin didn't give Timmins a lot of picks.

Just picture this team with 1 or 2 young guys à la Boeser or Debrincat. Or even a top 6 player who's not under 6'.

To me that's all on Timmins.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #72 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:48 am

Timmins didnt forget how to draft overnight.

Nhl teams average 1.8 players per team, per draft, who play 100 nhl games.

From 2003-2007 timmins had 13 players in 5 years hit this mark including strong players in price, subban, pacioretty, streit, etc...

From 2009-2014 thats gone way down.

When lever, cunneyworth, boucher, Wilson were our ahl coaches players were graduating. Guys were developing.

Under lefebvre they arent graduating. And those that do are skipping the ahl (Gallagher played 30 games there, galchenyuk skipped, lehkonen skipped, mete skipped)

Hudon, pateryn, andrighetto... in 6 years this is all that lefebvre has developped.

De la rose got worse in his ahl time. He was better when he first came up

Leblanc scored 7 goals and 14 points as a rookie. Lefebvre got hired and he turned to shit.

Beaulieu and tinordi never progressed. McCarron is stalled.

The issue is development imo.

How lefebvre has a job with very few players developed and almost no success at the ahl level is astonishing.

And the person to blame for that is bergevin.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #73 by Mufasa » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:52 am

Lol.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #74 by Craig » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:01 am

It is pretty astonishing that Lefebvre is still employed. I'm not sure I'd peg the whole problem on him.
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Re: RE: Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #75 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:06 am

Craig wrote:It is pretty astonishing that Lefebvre is still employed. I'm not sure I'd peg the whole problem on him.
Of.course that is hyperbolic.

Hes the largest part of the problem in terms of developing prospects, though.

Guys like lapointe, daigneault, and others are not getting the job done either.

But ultimately it all goes to Bergevin. He hires and fires those under him. If the job isnt getting done and he keeps those people employed, it falls to him.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #76 by Dog » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:12 am

Is Lefebvre a douchebag? That would explain why Bergevin keeps him on.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #77 by Twitter bArt » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:44 pm

Fids is the only one keeping this thread from turning full-metal boredz
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #78 by AD » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:52 pm

Fire everyone. Kill their children. Rape their wives. Burn their homes.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #79 by Twitter bArt » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:04 pm

that was full metal boredz when broads were there

now it's just fire everyone
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #80 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:14 pm

Hockey talk on boardz is painful cause too many people are dumb.

At least on broadz most of you know something of what you speak.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #81 by mcphee » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:29 pm

I'm not sold on Timmins anymore. Too many 'but' players, he's good 'but' Maybe he's a good talent evaluator but he's in charge of a scouting staff, and I think they fall short. Then again, I have as much ability to judge his work as any boreds dumbass. I don't know what to think about Sly and co. Pateryn,Tinordi and Beaulieu are examples of guys who improved down there, came up, showed something but never developed a consistency. So did the staff up here fuck them up or did they just not have what it took personally ?
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #82 by mcphee » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:51 pm

I'm watching a bit of Boston Toronto. After the 3 B's games, I thought Pastrnak was one of the most impressive young forwards Mtl has faced this year. He just scored his 21st goal, playing with Bergeron. Gallagher has what, 18 ? Playing with Tommy as he is sometimes called. For short. Sometimes not all is as it seems.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #83 by Craig » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:06 pm

mcphee wrote:I'm not sold on Timmins anymore. Too many 'but' players, he's good 'but' Maybe he's a good talent evaluator but he's in charge of a scouting staff, and I think they fall short. Then again, I have as much ability to judge his work as any boreds dumbass. I don't know what to think about Sly and co. Pateryn,Tinordi and Beaulieu are examples of guys who improved down there, came up, showed something but never developed a consistency. So did the staff up here fuck them up or did they just not have what it took personally ?


The thing with amateur scouting is it's impossible to know who will develop all the way and who won't. A guy like Beaulieu is a good example. He's obviously got the talent and the physique to get the job done. He hasn't been able to put it together in the NHL, but is that really the fault of the guy who scouted him in Juniors? If the job is to identify guys who have the tools to make it, I call that a successful pick. Lots of Habs picks have felt like that recently. LeBlanc, Andrghetto, McCarron, Bournival, Palushaj, etc. A guy like Fischer, not so much.

In recent years it seems like most of the high picks haven't worked out so well, but hardly any are full on busts either. That's partly because most of them have been in the latter part of the first round. Since the McDonagh draft, they've only had two picks in the top half of the first round: Chuck and Sergachev.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #84 by mcphee » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:18 pm

Craig wrote:
mcphee wrote:I'm not sold on Timmins anymore. Too many 'but' players, he's good 'but' Maybe he's a good talent evaluator but he's in charge of a scouting staff, and I think they fall short. Then again, I have as much ability to judge his work as any boreds dumbass. I don't know what to think about Sly and co. Pateryn,Tinordi and Beaulieu are examples of guys who improved down there, came up, showed something but never developed a consistency. So did the staff up here fuck them up or did they just not have what it took personally ?


The thing with amateur scouting is it's impossible to know who will develop all the way and who won't. A guy like Beaulieu is a good example. He's obviously got the talent and the physique to get the job done. He hasn't been able to put it together in the NHL, but is that really the fault of the guy who scouted him in Juniors? If the job is to identify guys who have the tools to make it, I call that a successful pick. Lots of Habs picks have felt like that recently. LeBlanc, Andrghetto, McCarron, Bournival, Palushaj, etc. A guy like Fischer, not so much.

In recent years it seems like most of the high picks haven't worked out so well, but hardly any are full on busts either. That's partly because most of them have been in the latter part of the first round. Since the McDonagh draft, they've only had two picks in the top half of the first round: Chuck and Sergachev.

Maybe impossible for you Craig O. For me, maybe very possible.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #85 by Craig » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:01 am

Can not.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #86 by Mufasa » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:50 am

So Craig is saying it's all a lottery?
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #87 by Dog » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:50 pm

Mufasa wrote:So Craig is saying it's all a lottery?


You’d need a good number crunching on habs drafting vs other teams and place it in terms of percentiles. With low success rates, a few years of low success isn’t that suprising either, statistically speaking. You’d need probablibilities of hitting such a streak taken into account.

Crunch the numbers properly people and show ‘em to me. If they strongly indicate underperformace and we isolate other variables (ie. Development), then I will fire Timmins.

We need fancy stats on drafting and player development, beaker!
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #88 by Dog » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:53 pm

Would also be interesting to see if there is any “stickiness” to who outperforms and underperforms (ie. Are the same teams consistently better or worse). If there isn’t, it would strongly indicate that it’s luck and we should just stop thinking about it.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #89 by Craig » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:15 pm

Mufasa wrote:So Craig is saying it's all a lottery?


No, I'm saying there's a difference between drafting guys with the tools and drafting guys who don't. Also, there's a difference between picking 8th and 24th.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #90 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Should have converted Scherbak to D to fill that Malahoff void.
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #91 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:38 pm

Everyone on this team is convinced they can force no look backhand passes through traffic.
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #92 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:42 pm

Plek with the no look backhand to Lehkonen. :danson:
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #93 by Twitter bArt » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:22 pm

no look backhands were a Mama Artie specialty
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #94 by TittiesNBeer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:35 pm

No matter how bad we are.... ottawa is more shit
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Twitter bArt
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #95 by Twitter bArt » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:15 pm

so what you are saying is that the habs are more better
:mkbét::lr: :lr:



OOOH yeah life goes on, long after the thrill of Vinny is gone



It's too bad all the people that could really run the Habs are busy doing talk radio, writing blogs or posting on message boards.



Now, Lajoie is an imbecile, a cretin and a plagiarist, who to use author Dany Laferrière's deliciously withering expression, "lives beyond his intellectual means."



...as serious as a poutine shortage in Chicoutimi during a curling bonspiel...



Haddock wrote:I wouldn't know anything about that. I gave my soul up when I swore allegiance to the goddamn queen.




:lr: :lr: :lr:
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Retardé S
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #96 by Retardé S » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:00 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:No matter how bad we are.... ottawa is more shit


But they'd still beat us in a 7 games series :why:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #97 by Macbeth » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:48 pm

Retarder S wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:No matter how bad we are.... ottawa is more shit


But they'd still beat us in a 7 games series :why:

Fucking Gabigageau. :why:
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Re: GDT 51: Again with these guys?

Post #98 by Retardé S » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 am



Sti qu'on vô d'être bin, sti q'ça va bin aller

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