Dog containment thread and random noises

And some artists..
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #251 by Mufasa » Fri May 11, 2018 5:12 pm

:why:

:why:
:why:

:why:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #252 by Dog » Fri May 11, 2018 5:18 pm

Best.Thread.Ever.

:mkbét:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #253 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 9:32 pm

Dog wrote:Best.Thread.Ever.

:mkbét:


The fact that I'm not smart enough to point flaws in your theory doesn't mean that your theory is right, it only means that I'm not very smart. :danson:

That being said, it's an interesting take, but I'm still not convinced, as all the answers also make questions arise.. I'll leave it there for now, I'll read upon it and the criticism that was suggested. Brainstorming is good, but having a grip of the thing you're trying to criticize is better.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #254 by Dog » Fri May 11, 2018 10:23 pm

Slick Nick wrote:
Dog wrote:Best.Thread.Ever.

:mkbét:


The fact that I'm not smart enough to point flaws in your theory doesn't mean that your theory is right, it only means that I'm not very smart. :danson:

That being said, it's an interesting take, but I'm still not convinced, as all the answers also make questions arise.. I'll leave it there for now, I'll read upon it and the criticism that was suggested. Brainstorming is good, but having a grip of the thing you're trying to criticize is better.


I'm not convinced either.

:danson:

Makes sense to me, to my knowledge. Holes, as far as I know, are nothing's proven. The physics argument: there's a gap in complexity of systems between what is studied in physics and then chemistry and then biology. Human brain is the most complex thing we know in the universe. A 1:1 application of basic physics is an assumption. But, as far as I know, we are not different from anything else in nature. Neuroscience argument: early days on mapping brain processes. Studies showing origination prior to consciousness are on small actions (like moving a finger, picking an image). Doesn't mean that will also hold for long "reflective" processes. And it's not we are anywhere near having a full detailed picture of neural mapping and processes and understanding what does what. Early days.

But it seems to me that the logic is hard to escape. And the arguments I made earlier were in good faith. I described my best guess. If I would like to communicate one thing to you is to give more consideration to the bottom up process (evolution). It explains a lot and it removes the "need for a creator to explain things" instinct you have. There is no need for a creator to explain anything, as far as I know, from the big bang to now. Beyond that and to the extent there is anything, who knows.

This was a lot of fun. I love the opportunity to discuss. These few pages forced me to push my reasoning and lead me to places I didn't hold before. The more it went, the closer I was getting to a simulation/program theory which I've never held. I dismissed it as techies projecting. Oddly, that's were my logic lead me too.

I'm open to discuss anything else. Other than hockey, obvs.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #255 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 10:43 pm

Dog wrote:This was a lot of fun. I love the opportunity to discuss. These few pages forced me to push my reasoning and lead me to places I didn't hold before. The more it went, the closer I was getting to a simulation/program theory which I've never held. I dismissed it as techies projecting. Oddly, that's were my logic lead me too.


It's where your logic lead me too, can't really explain but it seemed to point in the direction of mastery of all physical laws could lead us to launch our own simulation.. but then again, the main problem I see with all this, is that we really don't know how the world works. I wouldn't be surprised that in our lifetimes we could discover that things operate differently let's say in other dimensions, and that could fill some holes and open up many new paths. In the end, I believe that the paradigm that you propose, is probably very good at explaining neural networks, AI, but it doesn't take into account consciousnesses which seems to exist and seems to play a major role that we don't currently understand.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #256 by Dog » Fri May 11, 2018 11:04 pm

At the end of the day, we are condensed energy in the form of mass, part of a grid (spacetime) which distorts itself (stretching and shrinking space and time) under the influence of mass. We are dents in a grid.

And, that, from the point of view of our everyday experiences, is a weird thing to be.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #257 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 11:21 pm

Dog wrote:we are condensed energy in the form of mass


Specially biqueur it seems.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #258 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 11:44 pm

AD wrote:
I'm going out with a Russian lady on Friday. How long does she have before disintegrating? Or do Russian women last longer than men?


How did it go? Did she have carpets on her walls?

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #259 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 11:49 pm

Let's give this thread it's original purpose back:

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #260 by Slick Nick » Fri May 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Fucking westerners.. act all sophisticated and you don't even have carpets for your cars!!!
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #261 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 2:01 am

stupid dog and his theories cause sleep deprivation...

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #262 by Mufasa » Sat May 12, 2018 2:19 am

For some reason, Dog is really depressing me in real life with this thread, no offense dog, I'm a sensitive guy. Is there a way for me to hide this thread?
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #263 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:22 am

Slick Nick wrote:It's where your logic lead me too, can't really explain but it seemed to point in the direction of mastery of all physical laws could lead us to launch our own simulation..


I often use ... marks, sometimes to break ideas apart, sometimes because I don't know the proper punctuation to use, other times because I feel finishing my idea doesn't render service to me or to the reader. In this particular case, I used them to not throw out an idea that I was really uncertain of... the idea was that it could explain multiverses, a simulation into a simulation etc... the idea itself is of little importance, what I wonder about is intuition. The idea is clearly not thought through, it appears from my point of view that something tried to get there, yet for some reason didn't really ended up being seriously considered. And the question that comes is: why certain ideas are fully studied while other are not... it seems that somewhere in the process there's an entity that sets a hierarchy of processes, and it seems to operate in an ordered way. This whole debate, from my perspective, always points at this precise question: if all processes are random and mechanical, why does there seem to always be qualitative distinction made upon them... you can have a thought come up about why elephants aren't pink for no particular reason and another one about why trash cans can't fly, but those ideas are always pushed down to let more important thoughts (important as in what's my next meal, how should I answer to this e-mail, etc). If thoughts are really only processes built in space and time, how does it make sense that an earlier process can be altered, left alone and later rethought... if rethought at all. And how can quantum physics explain that ideas seems to be qualitatively ordered. Why don't we just fry our brains on some absurd thoughts (absurdity only makes sense in the context of reason and consciousness). There seems to be a mediator somewhere... now do we have agency over the said mediator, I don't see evidence to support the idea, but I do wish we do. And I'm leaving the whole feelings question aside...

All kinds of other ideas also bug me, such as, if the deterministic model is correct, then it would somehow mean that all the steps in the way ((a)--> b)) are somehow necessary, and should we then believe slavery, the holocaust or the gulag were in fact a correct step, as much as any gore stuff you can think of, in the grand scheme of things. And if the wiring of brains has a causal effect on the output, then does it also mean that men and women (wired differently) don't have the same abilities or capacities.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #264 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:30 am

Mufasa wrote:For some reason, Dog is really depressing me in real life with this thread, no offense dog, I'm a sensitive guy. Is there a way for me to hide this thread?


I felt the same, depressed.. anxious and depressed. But then AD come with some light: "more than the sum of its parts" ... and it made me realize that dog doesn't know shit about the whole complexity of it all, and I felt better. :)

Also, you can only fight it to feel better, if you don't you will have capitulated and feel depressed all your life... well, technically until your brain kills that pathway, if that pathway hasn't already created all sorts of pathways.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #265 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:34 am

I also find it incredible that dog doesn't depress himself with this kind of nightmarish conception of the world. I suppose his egotistical boost of having it figured out (under control) balances his "wtf this is not fun" feeling. No offense dog.

It'll also be .005btc for the consultation
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #266 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:37 am

.006
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #267 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:38 am

.007
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #268 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:39 am

It's going to zero innit? Dog is always right

:why:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #269 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:52 am

Also just realized that Dog is the prophet of nihilism... the ultimate leveling of all qualitative distinctions among values... nothing, as in literally nothing matters, and this conception can only lead to despair (if you have any self awareness).

Can we ban Dog already? He's perverting our youth (retardër)

:colbert:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #270 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 3:55 am

I also have to work in 4 hours.... DOG YOU OWE ME 20hours of sleep!!

I will gladly accept .008btc for the :why:

Legal disclaimer: Though that amount is lesser than our actual damages, we would be willing to accept it as full compensation for our damages if you settle the claim swiftly and without forcing us to get recourse within the administrative courts or national tribunals.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #271 by Dog » Sat May 12, 2018 9:30 am

Jebus. Sorry.

To me, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Whatever it is, you just try to make the best of it. What you have is what you have and it's mind boggling fantastical that we have a subjective feeling of experience. An awareness. You exist, you interact, you are aware. What more do you want? Enjoy the extraordinary ride. It's filled with wonder and coolness. Whether there is direction and what cause the direction (conscious intention or entropy) is interesting, but ultimately not important. There is the experience. We are the experience. We are part and parcel of the universe and of reality. The whole thing can be self contained in your head. It can have real ontological existence out there too. It's interesting, but the fundamental is that you are aware of existence now. You are "living" it. The sense of wonder is extraordinary.

If I push this reasoning, I'm very much at some cross of a buddhist/meditative and a humanist approach. Clear your mind. Forget all the meaningless shit. Focus on what's most real. You are conscious experience intrinsically part of the same fabric as everyone and everything around you. Who/what sets the direction (mind or physics) and whether there is even any (random) is not the ultimate point. Regardless of the answer to that, be it anything, what you still have, and the fundamental, is your experience and how you live it. Illusion or not, free will, feels real to you. Get in the wave, enjoy the experience, make the best of it (whomever/whatever I'm talking to).

It leads me to zen, completely puts everyday worries into perspective and leads to just embrace the experience and to make (whatever does it) and construct, to the extent you can the best of you as an enlightened mens. It leads to fundamental empathy. Realize you're not only connected to everything, you are a part of everything and everything is a part of you. You're wider than you think. You don't need to break the code. You are the code.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #272 by Mufasa » Sat May 12, 2018 10:41 am

I'm depressed because the dog would put so much energy in this, when most scientists would never go that far. I don't believe that the dog is right, it pains me to see my friend Dido believing in such things. It's hard to explain, but the fact that the dog believes in this, gives me angoisse.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #273 by Dog » Sat May 12, 2018 11:15 am

Wut?
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #274 by Retardé S » Sat May 12, 2018 11:35 am

Dog wrote:You don't need to break the code. You are the code.






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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #275 by Dog » Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 am

It’s what Bergman was about, mu. I haven’t read Nietzsche but suspect it similar. Post theism, which means « outside created », isn’t nihilism. It’s humanism. If there is no objective -by definition outside- aim, then there is subjective -inside- aim. It is what you -however you define it- make of it. That’s what greg seems to be missing. Greg is smart. Greg figured out outside objective conscious direction isn’t likely. Now, greg must pick up the baton and create. Not quit. Will to power, I suspect. Why? Because you can. You can quit because there is no daddy to tell you what to do or you build your own. Lack of objectivity makes us free in a real sense.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #276 by Craig » Sat May 12, 2018 12:04 pm

What? Will to power? Isn't that just another kind of free will?

No. I do stuff because I feel like it. I feel like it because of the trillions and trillions of minute details that make up my reality. I care about my world despite it, for exactly the same reason.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #277 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sat May 12, 2018 12:07 pm

Run, rabbit, run
Dig that hole, forget the sun
And when at last the work is done
Don’t sit down, it’s time to dig another one Image

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave
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Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #278 by Dog » Sat May 12, 2018 12:18 pm

Craig wrote:I do stuff because I feel like it.


Yeah. Then it’s a question of what should we do. We, whoever/whatever we are. It’s about experiencing (doing/feeling). Can go egocentric, heudonist, altruist, passive or whatever combination. You (whether a mind or physics) exists, picks and has awareness.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #279 by Retardé S » Sat May 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Is the meaning of free will subjective amongst people having the debate?
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #280 by Retardé S » Sat May 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Dog's conclusion seems to resonate with me. I need to dig deeper to be fully be certain about my position. I care more about how humans interact and our own awareness rather than knowing what's behind all of it. I never considered myself an atheist because I feel like there's too much of an agenda to discredit religion amongst them, and I think many people do benefit from religion still. Not concerned with proving there's a divine creator or the lack of one.

So the humanistic view despite being aware of the systems that make up everything we perceive kinda reconciles my valuation of science and respecting what people experience and believe (as long as you're not harming others).
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #281 by Dog » Sat May 12, 2018 12:51 pm

Retardé S wrote:Is the meaning of free will subjective amongst people having the debate?


Absolutely. Can define it as a mind unthetered in physics or define it as physics -you being physics with awareness. The second is what I’m arguing today.

1. Think it’s all minds. A God with unthetered free will and humens with unthetered free will.

2. Abandon the God. Don’t know what to do with your free will. Nihilism.

3. Abandon your free will. Consider everything a whole, which you are part of. It doesn’t matter if it’s tethered in physics or not. You’re aware.

4. Regardless of whether it’s physics or unthetered mind, ultimately it’s « you » and you live it and perceive shaping it. So I say focus on building something nice. That’s basically humanism. Don’t rely on higher order commands. Don’t go home pouting. Build and shape. Or at lesst « feel » yourself doing it. :)
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #282 by Slick Nick » Sat May 12, 2018 11:48 pm

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #283 by Slick Nick » Sun May 13, 2018 2:31 am

Craig wrote:What? Will to power? Isn't that just another kind of free will?


Yes, there can't be will to power if free will doesn't exist.

This unsolved problem is now called the Nietzsche-Fids free willy paradox, sometimes called the Planck-Sliqué conjecture.

I also made a meme about it, so it can for all time remain in the collective unconscious.

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #284 by Slick Nick » Sun May 13, 2018 3:21 am

Random thoughts;

What is the purpose of memory in a non-conscious non free will paradigm? The point of remembering and making sense of the past implies that we can modulate the future... if the future was already set, why do we base our further action on prior experiences? And both the deterministic model and the free will model seem to be fully compatible... my future is someone else's past (linear progression) yet in the present I make choices that are my future and someone else's past.

:smuglanne:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #285 by Slick Nick » Sun May 13, 2018 3:45 am

Put a couple of more hours on your bill fids

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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #286 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 9:56 am

There is a sleight of hand in my compatibilism shit of yesterday. Changed the definition of you. From consciousness to physics. Comparibilism is basically saying whether it’s a mind or it’s physics -it’s still you. Physics isn’t apart from you. You, even your consciousness, is physics. Describe yourself in that wider sense and you very much are part of the universe itself unfolding and reflecting upon itself. Physics thinking about physics. Whether there is a mind or not is irrelevant. There is only the experience you live.

I always thought compatibilism (the most widely held approach held by modern philosophers of mind) was a hoax. Little word play and voilà free will and determinism are compatible. But I kinda stumbled on it myself in this thread (again that’s why it’s so great to have dialogue -makes you push your reflexion with new input). It makes sense to me now. We are conditioned to think of self as separate from other natural processes. By definition, determinism means it is not separate. It is natural processes. You are those processes, not a prisoner. Whatever the processes do, is what you do. You are it and you have consciousness.

This making any sense? It’s subtle.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #287 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 10:05 am

Slick Nick wrote:Random thoughts;

What is the purpose of memory in a non-conscious non free will paradigm? The point of remembering and making sense of the past implies that we can modulate the future... if the future was already set, why do we base our further action on prior experiences? And both the deterministic model and the free will model seem to be fully compatible... my future is someone else's past (linear progression) yet in the present I make choices that are my future and someone else's past.

:smuglanne:


The same purpose as any of the senses. Bottom up mechanism that sprang to interract with environment. You keep assuming intelligent design to explain complexity. If there is any it is very far removed and « pre » big bang (« pre » is a bad way to think of it as is « besides » since both time and space (at least our time and space) were created there.

I kinda feel there may be something deep here. Reality is the crossroads where probabilities intersect.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #288 by Big Susf » Sun May 13, 2018 11:09 am

Image

:smuglanne:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #289 by chicpea » Sun May 13, 2018 1:53 pm

I look a little bit the Judas.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #290 by AD » Sun May 13, 2018 3:41 pm

I find the dog's intense predestined Catholicism doctrine disturbing.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #291 by mcphee » Sun May 13, 2018 3:43 pm

So who’s going to the midget wrestling with me ?
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #292 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 4:22 pm

chicpea wrote:I look a little bit the Judas.


Iscariot or Priest?
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #293 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 4:22 pm

Also, happy mother’s day, broads!
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #294 by Retardé S » Sun May 13, 2018 4:28 pm

Mother's day is just a meme, we are symbol transmitters.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #295 by Retardé S » Sun May 13, 2018 4:29 pm

That's what I said to my mom this morning, she cried.

Psh, what a crybaby.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #296 by Big Susf » Sun May 13, 2018 5:12 pm

Dog wrote:Also, happy mother’s day, broads!


So, do you techincally refer to your mother as a "bitch" since you're a dog and all?

Happy Mothers Day, bitch. :crossarms:
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Big Susf
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #297 by Big Susf » Sun May 13, 2018 5:17 pm

Slick Nick, you might like this page. Moscow underworld photos - http://www.artcoup.com/moscow/
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #298 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 5:33 pm

Retardé S wrote:That's what I said to my mom this morning, she cried.

Psh, what a crybaby.


Whatever, she doesn’t even exist in any conventional sense. The vast majority of the cells in her body don’t even contain her dna, just bacteria living in « her ».

:vince:
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #299 by Dog » Sun May 13, 2018 6:54 pm

I mean, I’m sure she’s a wonderful collection of various life forms. Hope you did something nice for her, Retardez.
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Re: Dog containment thread and random noises

Post #300 by Slick Nick » Sun May 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Offseason Shredder wrote:Slick Nick, you might like this page. Moscow underworld photos - http://www.artcoup.com/moscow/


huh

https://www.rt.com/uk/426596-sun-scary- ... ie-photos/

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