Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3401 by Germz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:33 pm

Of course, the Phaneuf and Ryan situation is a real headache if we're scrounging for money to keep both Stone and Karlsson. If buyouts are forbidden, those contracts probably pose the greatest threat to our top two players. But we knew that already.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3402 by Ricard_Persson » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:06 pm

Really strong articles from Ken Warren and Don, yes Don Brennan today. Impressive for the spineless media. It looks like everyone is fed up.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3403 by FH2002 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:54 pm

Karlsson:

“I don’t really know what direction they’re going in because we haven’t really spoken about it, so I can’t really comment about it.”

Ottawa is shitting the bed on the ice, the team President resigned/got fired, the GM got a new 3 year deal, and the owner just announced they are heading in a new direction wrt to scouting and drafting. No one thought to talk to the franchise player about it?

“It starts at the top. You need to sort that bit out before you move anywhere else,” he said. “It’s just a normal way of doing things in any organization, whether it’s the sports business or regular business.”

http://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/senators-players-coach-seem-ready-for-whatever-the-future-may-hold

Garrioch presents it as though Karlsson is talking about Dorion, but Karlsson’s talking about Melnyk.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3404 by senate » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:06 pm



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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3405 by Germz » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:14 pm

I've always resisted the Ballard comparisons, but by golly, we are getting there.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3406 by RTWAP » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:55 pm

Lotsa good comments in this thread.

On the Karlsson situation, I do not envy Dorion's position. He may have a mandate and budget to try to re-sign him but how the heck do you put a value on "formerly top three player worldwide, currently about the 15th best D-man, prospects for recovery uncertain."

I'd be strongly tempted to try signing him for two years year at $13M per just to punt the decision to a future when there is (hopefully) more certainty.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3407 by MP » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:41 am

My vote is get Dahlin, then sign and trade Hot Karl.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3408 by Hossa » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:25 am

The Dahlin factor should not be dismissed either. We are well within striking range of that selection and Dahlin is the rare draft eligible who could make a difference immediately. It's one reason to wait until the summer for the bigger decisions. Tkachuk, Zadina and Svechnikov are less game-changers than Dahlin.

I still go back and forth between blowing it up or retooling around Karlsson, Chabot, Stone, Hoffman and Duchene. Part of me just doesn't trust Dorion/Melnyk/Boucher to lead a rebuild. I've long been a proponent of proper rebuilds from the ground up, and what Toronto's done is textbook in that regard, but our management group is not Toronto's. If we're going to blow it up and rebuild completely, I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap with a GM who is a bit simple and a conservative systems coach.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3409 by MP » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:41 am

I like Dorion on the draft front though Formenton and Batherson look to be real pieces to add to White and Chabot. We just need a different GM to handle trades...
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3410 by MP » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:17 pm

Phaneuf scores!
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3411 by RTWAP » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20 am

Hossa wrote:The Dahlin factor should not be dismissed either. We are well within striking range of that selection and Dahlin is the rare draft eligible who could make a difference immediately. It's one reason to wait until the summer for the bigger decisions. Tkachuk, Zadina and Svechnikov are less game-changers than Dahlin.

I still go back and forth between blowing it up or retooling around Karlsson, Chabot, Stone, Hoffman and Duchene. Part of me just doesn't trust Dorion/Melnyk/Boucher to lead a rebuild. I've long been a proponent of proper rebuilds from the ground up, and what Toronto's done is textbook in that regard, but our management group is not Toronto's. If we're going to blow it up and rebuild completely, I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap with a GM who is a bit simple and a conservative systems coach.


Yah. *sigh* I go back and forth too.

Here are some ideas by friends have been banging around.
  1. Trade Hoffman for RNH.
  2. Trade Zack Smith (plus?) for a first to a marginal playoff team that struggles down the stretch.
  3. Trade Brassard for a first to a marginal playoff team that struggles down the stretch.
  4. Get lucky with one of those picks in the draft lottery and end up with 2 picks in the top 5.
  5. Pick one D and one F early in the first round.
  6. Re-sign Duchene 8/8/8/7/7/6/6/6 (36 years old at end of contract) - AAV 7M.
  7. Re-sign Karlsson 13/12/11/10/10/9/8/7 (37 years old at end of contract) - AAV 10M.
  8. Re-sign Stone 8 years $50M.
  9. Top 6 wingers at start of season are Stone, Ryan, Gaborik, Dzingel. But Dzingel being challenged by any of White, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, and 2018 top forward pick.
  10. Trade Englund and a 6th for one year of Methot (he was traded for a 2nd and 7th). This assumes he isn't permanently broken.
  11. In summer 2019, get a defensive D veteran, but not too old, D-man (McDonagh in the 2019-20 roster below).

Rosters for the next two years:
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/591341
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/591365

Assuming MacArthur's salary is paid by insurance, the team cap hit is $11M under the cap next season, and $7.7M under the next season. Both seasons calculated with 23-man rosters.

:paulrus:
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3412 by MP » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:40 am

Karlsson is getting no less than McDavid money ($12.5M for 8). Thus if we get Dahlin, we trade Karl on July 1st after allowing the other GM's to pre-negotiate that extension.

If we don't get Dahlin, we need to try and bridge Karlsson on a 2 to 3 year deal at $13-14M and then if he not broken you sign him to that deal you mentioned above.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3413 by ColinM » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:50 am

Rumour has it Melynk is destined to be the Sens CEO. Clearly what we need is more of Melnyk’s finger prints on the organization.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3414 by senate » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:20 pm

Ricard_Persson wrote:Strange with Anselmi walking out. Obviously because of Melnyk but with the Ottawa media, we’ll never know as they’re afraid to get their press pass slapped by gene. Maybe I’ll sign up to the athletic so that I can pay for some guy who isn’t a writer to punch out a piece in his rec room after he gets home from his 9 to 5 job..


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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3415 by senate » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:16 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3416 by senate » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:32 pm

Dumont claimed by Tampa.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3417 by RTWAP » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:12 am

MP wrote:Karlsson is getting no less than McDavid money ($12.5M for 8). Thus if we get Dahlin, we trade Karl on July 1st after allowing the other GM's to pre-negotiate that extension.

If we don't get Dahlin, we need to try and bridge Karlsson on a 2 to 3 year deal at $13-14M and then if he not broken you sign him to that deal you mentioned above.


In the last year of his deal McDavid is making $12.5M as a 29 year old.

If Karlsson is re-signing somewhere for eight years then he'd turn 37 during his last year of the deal. I don't think that's justifiable.

I agree a bridge deal makes sense. It might not be likely at this point. And even if it happened I don't think you'd follow it up with a deal that averaging $10M that took him to age 40. Maybe six years instead of eight, or tailing off more at the end.

Or you could trade him away in the next couple of days, do a quick rebuild with all the pieces from the current liquidation, and sign him to an expensive 7 year $91M deal as a UFA on July 1, 2019. At that point we might have enough very good and very cheap young talent to be able to pay him that while also paying for some other good players in the late twenties or early thirties.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3418 by FH2002 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 am

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3419 by Fruity Pebbles » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:28 pm

I just want this to be over. I don't really have much faith in a rebuild.... not after the team has slowly moved to a bare bones run operation where the owner is now openly bitching about how much he's losing on this team. Look at how poorly Buffalo and Edmonton rebuilds have gone with owners that financed their organization top to bottom. And we're bare bones. So if the leftover staff that have stayed on aren't good it's not like we have options.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3420 by The Bytown Boozer » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:13 pm

Jesus fucking Christ this is depressing.

The season ticket drive is going to be an utter disaster.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3421 by RTWAP » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:45 pm

FH2002 wrote:https://twitter.com/travisyost/status/967123003694657536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%23967123003694657536


Dorion has continued with Bryan Murray's overly emotional and thin-skinned approach to GM'ing. Remember how petulant Murray sounded when Heatley wanted a trade? Every time Murray opened his mouth to complain he sounded like such a victim, with very little control over the situation.

Likewise when Alfie decided to sign with Detroit. Murray's comments were so defensive. And in hindsight I wonder if the rush to change the narrative lead to them trading for Ryan without doing a proper scouting job on him.

I'll never understand why Dorion felt the need to kick Turris on his way out of town. All he needed to say was Turris is a very good player, and if this opportunity to improve the team hadn't come along then he would have been resigned. Instead they tried to blame it on Turris. Why do that?

Maybe it's Melnyk. Does he fuck with his GM's so much that they never feel in control, always trying to react with insufficient resources and insufficient decision-making power, always trying to justify their actions to a volatile owner?
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3422 by The Bytown Boozer » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:56 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3423 by Fruity Pebbles » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:20 pm

RTWAP wrote:
FH2002 wrote:https://twitter.com/travisyost/status/967123003694657536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%23967123003694657536


Dorion has continued with Bryan Murray's overly emotional and thin-skinned approach to GM'ing. Remember how petulant Murray sounded when Heatley wanted a trade? Every time Murray opened his mouth to complain he sounded like such a victim, with very little control over the situation.

Likewise when Alfie decided to sign with Detroit. Murray's comments were so defensive. And in hindsight I wonder if the rush to change the narrative lead to them trading for Ryan without doing a proper scouting job on him.

I'll never understand why Dorion felt the need to kick Turris on his way out of town. All he needed to say was Turris is a very good player, and if this opportunity to improve the team hadn't come along then he would have been resigned. Instead they tried to blame it on Turris. Why do that?

Maybe it's Melnyk. Does he fuck with his GM's so much that they never feel in control, always trying to react with insufficient resources and insufficient decision-making power, always trying to justify their actions to a volatile owner?


To be fair we gave guys like Fisher a soft landing. We moved Bishop somewhere he could be a legitimate #1. The problem is all this goodwill gets undone as soon by this other stuff.

Duchene looks like a Dorion and Boucher decision and man was it a terrible fucking move. Turris was obviously a really popular guy in that locker room. I guess Dorion and Boucher blew it and assumed because Turris is quiet (seems that way) that he could be moved out for someone else. Huge blunder.

I have nothing against Duchene. He didn't decide this. It was a stupid trade, a center swap to buy an extra year of a center that for some reason our GM and HC liked more... and it's thrown us into a rebuild mode that I'm not optimistic about.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3424 by PredsFan77 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:34 pm

wtf is going on up there
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3425 by FH2002 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:55 pm

Melnyk still drinks. It’s the only explanation.

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