Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

and The Silver Seven
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #101 by Ricard_Persson » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am

You know there's more to the Lee thing. I don't know if it ever comes out though.

You don't just rub down a 19 year old guy and get a rod-on once in your life, randomly.


There's been many rods.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #102 by mayoradamwest » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:40 am

Not sure if it's true, but I'm hearing there's a major divide on the team as Zack Smith insists on pushing his belief in Austrian school economics while Marc Crawford has been trying to win people over to the Chicago school. If true it's a fucking mess.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #103 by TGR » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:18 am

Who cares now? We need more! It's been 3 days already.

What will happen next? Only time will tell..
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #104 by senate » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:54 am

mayoradamwest wrote:Not sure if it's true, but I'm hearing there's a major divide on the team as Zack Smith insists on pushing his belief in Austrian school economics while Marc Crawford has been trying to win people over to the Chicago school. If true it's a fucking mess.


No one on the team cares about the plight of the proletariat since Chris Neil was forced out.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #105 by senate » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:20 am

Cyril Leeder is now commenting on Sens articles.

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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #106 by The Bytown Boozer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:30 am

Vice Sports is just a bunch of HFBoards posters. Utter garbage.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #107 by Fruity Pebbles » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:52 pm

It's hard to follow the team with the circus and drama queens that follow it around.

I occasionally stop by the forums for a quick read and the hysterics turn me off and I close the tabs immediately. The sports writers have always been awful but now we get Vice Sports (what the fuck?), analytics guys who don't really understand statistical analysis, etc... writing up stories that blend rumor with fiction to sell themselves.

Even if Melnyk had the money, part of me would want him to go just to start a new chapter so that large whiny group and the demagogues they have helped spawn can shut up for a week.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #108 by senate » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:27 pm

Nothing really new here, but whatever, its Friday afternoon and I don't feel like working right now so I am going to post this:

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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #109 by The Bytown Boozer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:50 pm

Fuck him. Go Sens go
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #110 by senate » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:06 pm

Randy Lee has been suspended.

A very late move in my opinion. A desperate attempt for the franchise to salvage a modicum of respect from the fans and the league.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #111 by mayoradamwest » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:40 pm

senate wrote:Nothing really new here, but whatever, its Friday afternoon and I don't feel like working right now so I am going to post this:



Says:
1. No worthwhile offers
2. Not for sale

Hmmmm...
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #112 by Ismellofhockey » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:21 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:So do we want to baselessly speculate what Duthie is referring to?

Options could include:
- human trafficking
- hazing
- the team is actually a front to funnel money to Ukrainian nationalists.
- counterfeit jeans ring
- team book club fell apart once Chris Neil left
- old fashioned fisticuffs
-


This is going to send ticket sales plummeting. Why spend money when the free, off-ice entertainment is so spirited and more breathtaking? The team hasn't been this much fun since the Sens > NHL days.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #113 by Sudden_Death » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:05 am

So....looks like the team might be far worse next year. Give up the #4 this draft and look to a good shot at #1 next year? I mean the returns for Karlsson and Hoffman might be decent but really this team doesn't ever get full value. Who really thinks what they get will make for a better on ice product next year? I'm ok with missing out on Tkachuk and playing the lottery again next year.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #114 by Hossa » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:24 am

senate wrote:Randy Lee has been suspended.

A very late move in my opinion. A desperate attempt for the franchise to salvage a modicum of respect from the fans and the league.


Somebody clearly told Melnyk and Dorion they had to suspend him, it's just a question of who. The new guy? Bettman? Randy Lee himself?

This also makes, one would assume, Shean Donovan de facto assistant GM, because that's basically the only other person left in the front office.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #115 by MP » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:43 pm

It's too quiet...
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #116 by mayoradamwest » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:41 pm

Whatever is happening, I'm sure it isn't good.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #117 by PredsFan77 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:15 am

Lol
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #118 by vonbonds » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:19 am

PredsFan77 wrote:Lol
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #119 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:22 am

Hoffman to San Jose for Boedker.

Ugh.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #120 by MP » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:48 am

Hossa wrote:Hoffman to San Jose for Boedker.

Ugh.

Trade a 60 point player for a 40 point player... That is a terrible trade. I get that he needed to go, but fack me that's a bad deal. Hopefully that Bergman kid pans out...
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #121 by vonbonds » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:52 am

What the fuck guys. The league doesn’t want Melnik to turn your team into an expansion team. Which one of you is man enough to take care of him for the good of the league?
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #122 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:05 am

mayoradamwest wrote:Whatever is happening, I'm sure it isn't good.


Bang on with that one.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #123 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:05 am

mayoradamwest wrote:Whatever is happening, I'm sure it isn't good.


Prophecy fulfilled.

Fuck this team.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #124 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:10 am

MP wrote:
Hossa wrote:Hoffman to San Jose for Boedker.

Ugh.

Trade a 60 point player for a 40 point player... That is a terrible trade. I get that he needed to go, but fack me that's a bad deal. Hopefully that Bergman kid pans out...


Boedker had been a health scratch at times in San Jose, including in the playoffs last year, although he played better in the second half this year. Of course, Dorion's statement talks about how he plays his best when it matters though, presumably only when he's good enough to be dressed.

Bergman isn't much, he hasn't developed. Replaces Ville Pokka, could maybe be a 6/7 someday. It's also possible they don't qualify him and the flip there was to clear off Donaghey's contract.

I know Dorion was in a tough spot, but this is the latest in a long line of bad trades. He's far from the only problem with the team, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that as GM he can be part of a solution, whatever that may someday look like.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #125 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:13 am

It's worth noting that although Boedker's caphit is $4M, his contract was front loaded and he is only owed $6M over the remainder of the contract. Melnyk saves over $5M.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #126 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:17 am

Also, safe travels to Cody Donaghey, who one year into his pro career is already on his third NHL organization, after somehow playing for six different QMJHL teams.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #127 by NyQuil » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:56 am

Hey!

How's everyone doing?
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #128 by PredsFan77 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:24 am

He's traded again!
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #129 by MP » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:26 am

NyQuil wrote:Hey!

How's everyone doing?

I'm busy trolling Monika Caryk on social media...
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #130 by senate » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:30 am

Hoffman flipped to Florida with a 7th for a 2nd, a 4th, and a 5th.

So Dorion lost a trade and made a division rival better.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #131 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am

Unbelievable. We're such a joke.

Meanwhile, Doug Wilson somehow turned a bad free agent signing into a bunch of draft picks.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #132 by MP » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:36 am

I guess Dorion wanted Hoffman in the West, and rejected the FLA deal? Becayse I'd rather have had the 2nd rounder...

The only way thus is salvageable is if we resign Hot Karl.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #133 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:47 am

Florida never made the offer to Ottawa. FLA talked to SJ last night and agreed to deal.

Dorion doesn't talk to inter division GM's.

Not sure why.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #134 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:00 am

Ricard_Persson wrote:Florida never made the offer to Ottawa. FLA talked to SJ last night and agreed to deal.

Dorion doesn't talk to inter division GM's.

Not sure why.


But Tallon did approach Ottawa last week, but the asking price was too high and Dorion wanted players not picks.

So Dorion never circled back to Florida when the price dropped? And why would you want Boedker over picks?

I understand they wanted to get this done ASAP for Karlsson reasons. And I know Dorion's all alone in the front office with Shean Donovan. But still, embarrassing.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #135 by Germz » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:05 am

I feel for Dorion. He got hosed, but right now he's set up to fail.

What a clusterfuck over the last 12 months.

#MelnykOut
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #136 by MP » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:56 am

Blow it the fuck up!
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #137 by ColinM » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:09 pm

Meh, your typical second round draft pick has about a 50 / 50 shot of being a legit NHL player. Perhaps that pick will have turned out to be a better player than Boedker but it's not a stretch to imagine we merely missed out on another Shane Prince.

To me the bigger issue is how team management didn't catch on to our chemistry issues last fall and whether they will catch on to them this fall.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #138 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:41 pm

ColinM wrote:Meh, your typical second round draft pick has about a 50 / 50 shot of being a legit NHL player. Perhaps that pick will have turned out to be a better player than Boedker but it's not a stretch to imagine we merely missed out on another Shane Prince.

To me the bigger issue is how team management didn't catch on to our chemistry issues last fall and whether they will catch on to them this fall.


You're wondering how the 2 and a half guys in the front office didn't catch the intricacies of the team's chemistry issues? The only way they're liable to catch anything is if Randy catches the AIDS in prison.

Let's all remember that a guy gave a part of his liver for this. Wonder if he still feels all warm and fuzzy for having done the right thing.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #139 by ColinM » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Ismellofhockey wrote:
ColinM wrote:Meh, your typical second round draft pick has about a 50 / 50 shot of being a legit NHL player. Perhaps that pick will have turned out to be a better player than Boedker but it's not a stretch to imagine we merely missed out on another Shane Prince.

To me the bigger issue is how team management didn't catch on to our chemistry issues last fall and whether they will catch on to them this fall.


You're wondering how the 2 and a half guys in the front office didn't catch the intricacies of the team's chemistry issues? The only way they're liable to catch anything is if Randy catches the AIDS in prison.

Let's all remember that a guy gave a part of his liver for this. Wonder if he still feels all warm and fuzzy for having done the right thing.


It's not that I wonder how they didn't catch this, in fact I fully agree it's their responsibility to pick up on these things. Ideally these things would have been caught on to before the Turris / Duschene trade too.

As an aside I really miss the Rod Bryden era. I know he didn't have the money to run the team but he was really great at surrounding himself with smart people. I doubt we would be going into the draft wondering if the assistant general manager was going to jail under his ownership.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #140 by senate » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:43 pm

A lot of media experts saying that this is the start of a full rebuild, but given the team's history, this trade strikes me as the Senators retooling from being a team built to make the second round to a team built to squeak into the playoffs.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #141 by MP » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:51 pm

If we go full rebuild you got hope we trade for a top 10 pick this year, give 4th overall to Colorado, and keep 1st overall in 2019.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #142 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:03 pm

Yeah I was shocked they got a player back. And a shitty one at that. I guess there's so much pressure with COL taking a pick that they really don't know what to do. I would have traded Hoffman and Karlsson both this summer for picks and no one over 21 years old. She'd be great times in 4 years.

But here we are, coming in 23rd next year and 25th the year after that.


I thought they would get a first rounder in this draft for Hoffman, negotiated in person before the draft. A late first for a good team that want's a proven scorer. He'd fetch a first at the deadline and why not a first this week. Look at what Brassard landed.

I don't buy that this really hurts Hoffman. This will be a trivia question ten years from now, as in a "remember the Hoffman saga". I'm not in love with Hoffman as a player, but he can score. If I was another GM I would have absolutely no issue bringing him in. It should be dealt with in the summer through the courts and his girlfriend will be guilty, they break up, Hoffman tells the guys in the dressing room what happened and how crazy it was in one of his first practices, everyone laughs and it's all good. I also think this motivates Hoffman which is a good thing since he often lacked motivation.

It's laughable how I read that this could kill his career. It killed his career in Ottawa yes, but it's small peanuts when you look at the past. Craig McTavish killed a guy and no one cares...he lasted decades in the league. Dany Heatley killed a team mate and he became an Olympian All-Star. Even recently that Voynov guy beat his wife and he's about to be welcomed back into the league.

It's a non issue. Panthers get a good player who will see no drop in production and no dressing room issues.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #143 by Hossa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:53 pm

MP wrote:If we go full rebuild you got hope we trade for a top 10 pick this year, give 4th overall to Colorado, and keep 1st overall in 2019.


I actually agree. If by Friday it does not appear likely that Karlsson will re-sign, you deal him for the best possible package of futures, give Colorado the 4th and try to grab another top ten pick through a trade. The draft is wide open between 3 and 10-12. And if you can't sign Duchene or Stone to long-term deals this summer, you deal them too. No more half-measures and non-plans.

I go back to the following statement from Dorion, which came before the shit really hit the fan, because it shows just how rudderless we really are and how uninspiring Dorion's pitch to Karlsson will likely be:

“We're not big ones to brand plan or big proponents of telling everyone what our exact plans are because then you seem to give an edge to the opposition," Dorion said. "Are we going to be in some sort of a rebuild? Yes, or is it going to be some sort of a re-tool, yes. Do we want to be as competitive as we can be? Yes, without a doubt. Sometimes when people hear the term rebuild, retool they think you're going to take a step backwards and that's not what our plans are. Our plans are to be as competitive as we can be next year."
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #144 by senate » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:02 pm

Ricard_Persson wrote:Dorion doesn't talk to inter division GM's.

Not sure why.


Looks like it might be a Melnyk policy, because of course it fucking is.

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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #145 by senate » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:03 pm

More Melnyk fun:

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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #146 by sensdiehard » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:26 pm

Thought we would get a 1st for Hoff, but I also thought we would get one for Spezza. Trading big contracts in a cap era doesnt always return the same value as we would expect for just a hockey trade i guess. 2 GM's couldnt get a 1st for Hoff. Hard to understand how every GM in the league knew Hoff was available, he was in the TSN top 10 trade list, and yet not one of the 30 GM's wanted him enough to top an offer of Boedker? I guess SJ can use the cap space they freed whereas we werent likely to. Had we got a 2nd and a 4th, i cant imagine anyone would be praising Dorion for that one either.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #147 by ColinM » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:12 pm

sensdiehard wrote:Thought we would get a 1st for Hoff, but I also thought we would get one for Spezza. Trading big contracts in a cap era doesnt always return the same value as we would expect for just a hockey trade i guess. 2 GM's couldnt get a 1st for Hoff. Hard to understand how every GM in the league knew Hoff was available, he was in the TSN top 10 trade list, and yet not one of the 30 GM's wanted him enough to top an offer of Boedker? I guess SJ can use the cap space they freed whereas we werent likely to. Had we got a 2nd and a 4th, i cant imagine anyone would be praising Dorion for that one either.


Exactly. In a nutshell the choice was between a 28 year 3rd liner or the 55th (or so) overall pick in the draft. It's unlikely either will be impact players. A 21 year prospect for Hoffman (even if it was someone like Lazar back when he was traded to Calgary) would have been nice but it's clear that's not where the market was at.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #148 by Germz » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:09 pm

At least Hoffman was 28 and not 24. He'll still be dangerous in Florida for awhile yet but I think he gave us his best years. Watch me eat my words on this one.
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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #149 by PredsFan77 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:26 pm

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Re: Summer Recess 2: The Search for Curly's Gold

Post #150 by Hossa » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:30 am

Germz wrote:At least Hoffman was 28 and not 24. He'll still be dangerous in Florida for awhile yet but I think he gave us his best years. Watch me eat my words on this one.


It will be interesting to see how he's deployed. Despite his great shot and being called a 30 goal scorer, Hoffman never actually hit that mark, in part because his usage in Ottawa was uneven. Playing regular minutes with a skilled distributor like Barkov or Huberdeau could push his goal totals higher.

ColinM wrote:
sensdiehard wrote:Thought we would get a 1st for Hoff, but I also thought we would get one for Spezza. Trading big contracts in a cap era doesnt always return the same value as we would expect for just a hockey trade i guess. 2 GM's couldnt get a 1st for Hoff. Hard to understand how every GM in the league knew Hoff was available, he was in the TSN top 10 trade list, and yet not one of the 30 GM's wanted him enough to top an offer of Boedker? I guess SJ can use the cap space they freed whereas we werent likely to. Had we got a 2nd and a 4th, i cant imagine anyone would be praising Dorion for that one either.


Exactly. In a nutshell the choice was between a 28 year 3rd liner or the 55th (or so) overall pick in the draft. It's unlikely either will be impact players. A 21 year prospect for Hoffman (even if it was someone like Lazar back when he was traded to Calgary) would have been nice but it's clear that's not where the market was at.


The full package was a 2nd, 4th and 5th. I don't understand this minimizing of the value of draft picks - last year year our second and fourth round picks were Formenton and Batherson, the year before Dahlen and Burgess. I wouldn't deal either of those pairs for Boedker, not even close. Drafting is the only thing this team does well, and if we wanted to spend 4M on a shitty third liner, we could have done that on July 1st.

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