Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Wishing they were still in last place
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3601 by mayoradamwest » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Sounds like Stone is gone, I'm guessing Dorion wants Brendan Lemieux and a 1st from wpg (maw 1)
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3602 by senate » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:33 pm

I can't wait for February 26th when Garrioch and Mendes write articles about how better the Senator's locker room atmosphere is with Duchene and Stone gone.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3603 by Ricard_Persson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:01 am

Trading everyone is probably the best thing to do. It will hurt, but really it should bring in a lot of stuff and drop the age of the team even lower. Will be interesting to see how deep the team is in four years. I kind of prefer that over having Duchene and Stone here halfway through their long term deals in four years.

Might as well start fresh. I worry how fast Stone is in years 5-8. Duchene is actually a guy who may be able to play late as his feet are so good. It's the same with the Tavares deal. The last years of Tavares will be tough to watch because of foot speed. I'd really watch team speed closely. It's changed over rapidly in the last few years and maybe the league is a copy cat league, but I just don't see them going back to slow and rough hockey.

I'm completely fine with trading them all. In fact, I think it's the best thing to do for this team with where they are. Dzingel might be my top choice to sign believe it or not because he's cheaper and puts up similar numbers. He's the most unknown back to back 20+ goal man in the league. If they do trade him I'm hoping his not as unknown as I think, and the return is good. I'd be gunning for him if I was another GM.

And bringing in horrible players on bad deals to get to the cap floor, if it means getting great picks from desperate teams looking to move their Cowen's, Greenings and Phaneufs. Those are what they need to hit.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3604 by Hossa » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:07 am

I still can't get my head around the fact that it 15 months ago this same management group decided to push their chips in the middle on Duchene, we have already moved Karlsson, Hoffman, Brassard, Turris, Phaneuf and soon Stone, Duchene, Dzingel and likely Ceci. I don't know how much longer Dorion has a job in Ottawa, but I'd be shocked if he ever gets a GM job again (although you never know with the old boys club of the NHL).

I get the wisdom of just selling those final pieces to the highest bidder and building it from the ground up. I also can't imagine a duo I'd have less faith in to do that well than Melnyk and Dorion.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3605 by Ricard_Persson » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:13 am

I agree with both. It's like Ottawa heads coaches. None since Jacques Martin have ever been hired again as head coaches. Ya throw peanuts, you get monkeys. Ottawa promotes within which is a horrible way to do business in the NHL, but it's cheap. It's how you have a sex offender Ass GM who used to be a weight room spotter. What a mess.

Zero chance Dorion lands another GM job. I kind of feel for the guy, as he was part of the wave of moving up and promoting from within. Cost savings is why he's there and no ones fault but Murray and Melnyk who started the idea that local players would play for less and probably play a bit harder. Both debatable, but everything needs to be cleaned up.

The mis-read of the full team before the Duchene trade was staggering. I was watching the game last night and you know what, that trade wasn't that bad - if Ottawa had a good team. The read was horrible, but you know what, I don't think they gave up too much. I loved Turris, but Duchene is so much better and really is noticeable every shift. He's better than I thought. He can be a clear cut #1 center. I can get behind the trade if they actually had a good team at the time. They would have given up Bowers, Turris and the first this year which would be a #20-#25 pick if they were good like they thought. And they'd have two good runs with Duchene in the playoffs.

Anyway, at the end of Duchene's Ottawa career I have become OK with the trade. He's really good. I hope they can get lots for him because he would be a big lift to a team, but like you say with M & D laying out the framework of trades, we could be in trouble.

The Hoffman trade inexcusable, and 85% of Dorions signings are straight up bad. So yeah, he'll never land another job in the league but he will always be a respected amateur scout. In fact, we all probably wonder if we owned the team what decisions we'd make. I'd straight up give Dorion a raise to keep him, but only as head scout. Bring in a real GM and move forward. I think he has good value, but he's been thrust into the wrong position by a team looking to skimp on players and management by disguising their cost cutting plan as promoting from within and it all started when Bryan Murray signed Matt Carkner and went from there.

I loved Carkner by the way. Great #7 D man. Take the Carkbus to the game. Worth his salary in marketability alone.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3606 by MP » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:17 am

So they sign today or you gotta think all 3 are gone. I hate this team.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3607 by Ricard_Persson » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:34 am

About a week and a half ago I realized they are gone. Let's be honest. We all know pretty much what a contract will look like for each and we're just random people off the street. It doesn't take these guys more than a week to hammer it out if that's what they do for a living. They've had 8 months to sign Duchene. Stone must have had second thoughts, so I'm guessing they went into trade mode in January when he went cold on them.

I just can't fathom what the salary of the team will look like with those three gone. They'll need to help to hit the floor which is a wet dream to Eugene. I'm hoping the new Ass GM is a competent numbers guy and I'm assuming that's why he's in Winnipeg with Dorion, to balance the numbers for this year and next.

Stone is shocking, as I thought he's be safely and relatively easily signed. But dodging the media was the first clue. He and Duchene can't come out and say we are moving on as it would put all the power in the other GM's hands (they have most of it anyway with Dorion). I'm sure the team asked them to please at least sound like you're still mulling it over while we work out a trade.

I'm guessing Stone is going home to Winnipeg which would be kind of cool if you weren't a Senators fan. Dorions there now, working out the deal and he'll use an old trick out of Bryan Murrays book when he has his post trade press conference and says Stone wasn't going to sign in Ottawa no matter what, so we traded him to his home team because we're always looking out for our players, yada yada yada. The usual. They didn't want to be here so we put them in a good situation.

It's time to put the team in a good situation.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3608 by Germz » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:20 pm

I'd be ok with Stone landing in hometown Winnipeg. I wouldn't mind Calgary either. Those fans have suffered a long time and have finally got a good team. Giordano's career is a great NHL story. I don't know if (let alone when) Stone's brother might play again on account of that nasty blood clot, but that reunion would be a nice thing too.

I expect nothing exciting in return.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3609 by Hossa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:20 am

I'd be ok with Stone in Winnipeg too, and could get around the idea Chris Stevenson floated of Ehlers coming back, presumably if Stone signed an extension. It would help to add a top six forward because without the UFAs I'm not sure we have one. Tkachuk and White's numbers without Stone are pretty bad, and Bobby Ryan is Bobby Ryan, although there's a twisted irony in the fact we may now need his salary to clear the floor next year.

On Dorion, I think we sometimes give him too much credit as a scout just to be nice. It's extremely hard to attribute success to individual scouts; it's an exercise of contribution in the context of professional sports teams, even with a staff as small as ours. The possible exception would be area scouts and late picks, which he hasn't been. The club has generally drafted well since Dorion arrived, but we've also seen him be especially vocal about character picks like Englund and Lazar that didn't work out.

On the other hand, I think ultimate blame for the organization's total downfall goes primarily to Melnyk, for obvious reasons, and to Bryan Murray, for an approach and ideology that has largely been maintained by Dorion. As you say Rico, he's still using Murray's templates in many different ways. Of course, that's not an excuse for Dorion's poor management, he's not only inept but I think too dim to move the organization's approach forward to keep up with a changing league. But he's a company man promoted above his capacity by a poor and destructive owner.

More dark days ahead. We haven't hit the bottom yet.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3610 by senate » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:36 am




Last night on HNIC, Kyperios said that the obstacle to re-signing Stone was structure and signing bonuses. So don't get your hopes up on him being here in a week.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3611 by mayoradamwest » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Can't wait for an all "potential power forward" return.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3612 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:42 am

Talk now of a five year offer to Stone at 10.5 a season.


I actually like a five year deal. Somewhere along the way everyone has almost assumed all deals will be 7 or 8 years long. With Stone I much rather the 5 year deal because as said before, I just don't see him skating well in 8-9 years from now. Love the guy but he'll probably go extinct early a la Dany Heatley's and other guys who just didn't have great skating in their later years.


Also, despite the doom over the team, this will be a good and expensive roster in 5 years. Assuming they have the pockets and belief in actually paying to keep the roster together, this will be an expensive but good team (even younger and better as of next week). Having Stone's cost run past 5 years would make money distribution tougher.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3613 by MP » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm

Or it's all smoke and mirrors to say, yeah we offered him a fair deal, but he didn't want to be here. So we had to trade him for a lacklustre return...
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3614 by senate » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:08 pm

It's stupid weird to announce a scratch two days beforehand.

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3615 by mayoradamwest » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:16 pm

As in, they aren't close to trading him yet?
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3616 by MP » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:20 pm

The real winner in all this is Jack Hughes, who never has to deal with Melnyk or this organization.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3617 by Ricard_Persson » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:11 am

So what does Nashville have to give up for Duchene? Sounds like it's a good fit for the player. If they can do a contract and trade I'm guessing that would boost the trade return. You see those rarely
As I'm sure they're much tougher to do but sounds like Nashville and duchene want to start dating and see where things go.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3618 by MP » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:52 pm

We'd probably have to take Turris back...which would be amusing.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3619 by Ricard_Persson » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:05 pm

Yeah, Turris has struggled. A year later the extension doesn't look as strong. Over 100 games in NASH and only 19 goals on a good team.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3620 by mayoradamwest » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:21 pm

trading him did blow up a winning team
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3621 by mayoradamwest » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:12 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3622 by mayoradamwest » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:52 pm

they are going to trade... 4 of their starting 5?
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3623 by senate » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:01 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:they are going to trade... 4 of their starting 5?


We are a team, MAW.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3624 by senate » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:36 pm

All three are scratches.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3625 by senate » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:27 am

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3626 by mayoradamwest » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:52 am

Duchene is gone.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3627 by Murphy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:01 pm

First Russian the Sens have had in a while.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3628 by senate » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:02 pm

I have to stress that this is not a joke.

In the post-trade press conference, Dorion listed Ceci, Smith, Anderson, and Borowiecki as "quality, core veterans".
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3629 by senate » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:03 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3630 by Hossa » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:25 am

senate wrote:I have to stress that this is not a joke.

In the post-trade press conference, Dorion listed Ceci, Smith, Anderson, and Borowiecki as "quality, core veterans".


Yup, that's a guy he waived, a goalie who asked for a trade, a defenceman we're shopping, and the guy who did this:

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3631 by senate » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:23 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3632 by senate » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:03 pm

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3633 by mayoradamwest » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:01 pm

Anthony Duclair and 2 2nds for Dzingle
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3634 by mayoradamwest » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:03 pm

I'd feel better for the team if Melnyk was allowed to trade for cash 8(
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3635 by senate » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:17 pm

Did Dorion not release that after the Duchene trade it was in the Senators' best interest for the Blue Jackets to miss the playoffs?
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3636 by senate » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:59 am

Garrioch carrying water for the franchise again.

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3637 by mayoradamwest » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:38 pm

Ahhh, the classically defensive "actually for the record, I dumped them."
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3638 by mayoradamwest » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 pm

Just to say something positive, the trade with CBJ specifically is interesting. For whatever reason, they're going through their own shedding of free agents and if they lose Panarin and Bobrovsky at the end of the year their pick might be close to Ottawa's own. It also will give them more incentive to throw money at Duchene...

If they can find some teams wanting quantity they should be able to move up in the draft as well if necessary. I think they can, in time, rebuild with good assets... it'll just be a matter if they'll buy in when the time comes. Apparently the move to signing bonuses is the real hurdle?
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3639 by Germz » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 pm

Running a hit-piece on Dzingel is disgusting. A seventh-rounder who has overachieved in every sense, improved every single year, and done everything the team ever asked of him. Stepped up big time this year with Hoffman gone. Our young guns were going to play whether he stuck around or not.

Sure he's no Mark Stone, but FFS, what an embarassment Garrioch is.

All that said I don't mind the return.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3640 by senate » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:51 pm

No doubt Ottawa is finally going to finalize the Ceci-Hall deal.

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3641 by senate » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:13 am

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3642 by ColinM » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:19 pm

So here we are an hour before the deadline. What are the odds Stone goes unsigned and untraded an hour from now.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3643 by Ricard_Persson » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:25 pm

I'd say 0%.

You just can't go there and risk losing him for nothing.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3644 by Germz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:26 pm

ColinM wrote:So here we are an hour before the deadline. What are the odds Stone goes unsigned and untraded an hour from now.


I was betting on a Calgary deal but that seems to have fallen through. The next hour is anybody's guess.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3645 by Germz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:48 pm

Vegas gets Stone.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3646 by senate » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:53 pm

This explains Melnyk's mysterious trip to Parliament Hill yesterday afternoon.



I wonder how much of Ruszkowski and Dorion's belligerent optimism was a bluff to attempt to strengthen Melynk's bargaining position.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3647 by senate » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:05 am

Lebreton is dead. Looks like the NCC is going to restart the whole process too.

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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3648 by Germz » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:13 am

Relocation to Quebec within 5 years.
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3649 by Germz » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:32 am

(Probably not, but with the trajectory this franchise is on, you never know).
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Re: Miss Callaneous' Senatorial Grabuge 2

Post #3650 by senate » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:26 pm

Don't be crazy, Germz. It will be Houston, not Quebec City.

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