Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #251 by mayoradamwest » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:18 pm

I'm sure the fan base will be unhappy protecting dzingle, but it does make a bit of sense. It's odd they have depth on d, but I am curious about their philosophy on the loss of an asset.

Is it better to give up a top pick or prospect? They have to lose something, so they should be trying to minimize the loss. Methot seems like a high value loss to me, but they are gambling vegas wants to maximize assets and wants years of control. (Thus protect Ceci and dzingle.)

Perhaps the thought is they can afford the hit to the d. They do have depth, but that seems like an unnecessary level of loss. Of course, if you think a first round pick is worth more?

I'm a little surprised, but curious if anything else is ongoing. Long time until puck drop...
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #252 by MP » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:56 pm

Yep, if it cost more than a 3rd to keep anyone, you gotta just let them take who they want. Methot is on a short window before retirement. It'd be nice to have him for those two more years, but he's not worth a late 2nd rounder+another player at this point.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #253 by RTWAP » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:31 am

senate wrote:Calgary protected Lazar. That's how bad things are going there.


I ... I ... eeew.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #254 by RTWAP » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:53 am

senate wrote:Vegas' price for not picking a player is supposedly a 1st this year or next or a package of equivalent value in prospects and young players.

So is keeping Methot worth a 1st?


No. Maybe protecting Methot AND Claesson. If it's just to protect Methot then they'd probably lose Claesson.

To put it another way, would you trade a 1st plus Claesson for Methot? I wouldn't.

I think the only way it makes sense to go hard after protecting Methot is if they're planning on trying to re-sign him which I don't think they can afford to do if Phaneuf is still 100% on the payroll. Therefore that would imply they think they can trade Phaneuf after the expansion draft or in the summer of 2018 or 2019 without giving up too much or retaining that much salary.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just let it slide. Of if they want Bobby gone (I don't!) then throw in Wideman for them to select Bobby.

I think Bobby is a very important playoff piece up front. Of the top forward and D, the one that is the most expendable is Phaneuf.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #255 by mayoradamwest » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:41 am

my big question is what are they planning for assets saved. If methot does go for example and they keep all their picks and prospects, then what do they do with his salary room? There's always so much hype about trades, it's hard to guess at how realistic a lot of movement is.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #256 by MP » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:47 am

I'd rather let Methot go and save our assets to swing a deal for Marchessault or Hudon.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #257 by mayoradamwest » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:08 pm

Am I the only one who thinks it nutty that LV would consider Claesson? That's a huge gamble on their part.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #258 by MP » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:40 pm

I'm happy Mcphee over thinks this whole thing and passes on Methot and Ryan.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #259 by BlackRedGold » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:50 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:Am I the only one who thinks it nutty that LV would consider Claesson? That's a huge gamble on their part.


So is picking Methot and then trading him for a draft pick. But the Claesson gamble would pay off much sooner than a draft pick.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #260 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:15 am

BlackRedGold wrote:
mayoradamwest wrote:Am I the only one who thinks it nutty that LV would consider Claesson? That's a huge gamble on their part.


So is picking Methot and then trading him for a draft pick. But the Claesson gamble would pay off much sooner than a draft pick.


it's more that he wasn't that great during the year. I think a lot of teams have young defencemen with potential. Picks have a proven value that, to me, guys with 40 games don't have. (Also, that's an injury inflated not number)
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #261 by senate » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:08 am

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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #262 by senate » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:19 pm



I still think Methot gets claimed and then dealt.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #263 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:26 pm

If it's going to cost a first to keep methot, what else could that first round pick get?

Ryan (or other loss) + 1st for Methot for example would be not good.

1st+ Logan brown could get you...?
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #264 by MP » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:27 pm

senate wrote:https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/877178834117955586

That is fantastic news. Tell him to take a hike.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #265 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:42 pm

I'm very curious to see which way McPhee will go with this. He could try to ice a team that's competitive on day 1; he has the available talent for that. Or he could try to load up on players who have potential and a chance to grow with the team. Or he could simply take the best assets available in terms of trade value and load up on picks and prospects. The rumoured deals with Anaheim, Columbus and Long Island seem to indicate he's not going down road #1 towards a competitive team, so it looks like either Claesson or Methot. The problem with picking too many defencemen is that by flooding the market you also create a buyer's market. It's entirely possible that the price to acquire a Methot equivalent would be lower than the price of paying to protect him. Especially with the cap going up only 2 million, not many teams may have the capspace to acquire a $5M player after free agency. Claesson is a much safer bet for McPhee. Now watch him pick Burrows.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #266 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:43 pm

... Methot would be perfect for the Leafs...
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #267 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:00 pm

They'd need a really good scouting staff to gamble on claessen. Unfortunately he played well in the final 4 and many hockey people took note. He wouldn't have been on anyone's radar three months ago, but he is now.

There is a lot of good Dmen available right now. Unprecedented quality for an expando draft. Claessen may not even be on anyone's top 10. Hard to say.


But boy it sure looks like methot is gone. This one really only gained steam in the last couple weeks. Kind of shocking to sit here now and see him as gone. I like him for how he plays and how I imagine him being a pretty top guy in the room and in the hotels and practices and all that stuff that I think is very important to a hockey organization.

That's a tough loss. I just don't see how Vegas doesn't take him.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #268 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:11 pm

So I had a go at a mock expansion draft using capfriendly's tool, and I'm blown away at how good the team could be on day 1 with players who aren't on the downside of their careers. And that's even accounting for trades that have been rumoured, protecting various Blue Jackets, Ducks and Islanders. If they can sign one more free agent forward, or get Kovalchuk, they could make the playoffs.

This is what I came up with. To my everlasting shame, I do not know which defencemen play which positions. Yet, I still have hope that one day I will have value as a human being.

Neal - Nelson - Ryan
Kovalchuk - Shipachev - Dadonov
Marchessault - Eakin - Rust
Nordstrom - Karlsson - Grabner
Dano, Yakupov

Schmidt - Bogosian
McNabb - Dumba
T. Van Riemsdyk - Merrill
Koekkoek - Ouellet

Neuvirth - Pickard
Brossoit

That still leaves them with players to flip for a few extra picks:
Biega, Schlemko, Rychel, Hudon, Chiasson, C.Miller, Kerdiles, Burmistrov
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #269 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:18 pm

Ricard_Persson wrote:I just don't see how Vegas doesn't take him.


There are just so many defencemen available, that forwards are at a premium if they want to compete. If they want players who'll stay with the team a long time, Claesson is a good pick, seeing how their defence is going to be good anyway. I think if they pick Methot it will be to flip him to another team and they'll already have a deal in place.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #270 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:59 pm

Yeah sorry, that's kind of what I was thinking. Pick methot and trade him jan-feb for a boatload, meanwhile playing big minutes to get you through 2/3 of a rough expansion season.

Feel bad for methot sitting around tonight though.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #271 by senate » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:23 pm

Methot still has a 10 team NTC. Hopefully Vegas doesn't know who is on it and gets burned.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #272 by senate » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:26 pm

Also, Garrioch says that Vegas wants Ottawa's 2018 first rounder, not this year's.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #273 by MP » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:00 pm

If we cared enough to trade a 1st or a 2nd we should've protected Methot and given up Pageau or Brassard.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #274 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:24 pm

I'd say the Sens can replace Methot more easily than they can Brassard or even Pageau. Karlsson has shown he can be effective with Claesson, and Harpur shows promise in the role Methot plays. It's a clear downgrade either way, but the centre position is even thinner. Neither Turris nor Brassard are true #1 centres, and so they need a guy like Pageau to balance the lack of top end talent with Dep. White is unproven, and Brown is far away. Paul needs more seasoning.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #275 by MP » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:30 pm

I just hope Dorian doesn't do anything stupid, like handing over a 1st.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #276 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:43 pm

Would that be stupid? If a first guarantees they'll pick Hammond for example?
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #277 by The Bytown Boozer » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:58 am

Surely I can't be the only Sens fan who is intrigued by the idea of Erik Karlsson being paired up with Andrei Markov.

How much would that cost? $4.5 million?

Couldn't be more than 6.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #278 by Ismellofhockey » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:27 am

Markov ain't moving. The Habs for one can't afford to lose him, and they have the money to sign him.
Also, Markov's ex-wife died last year and his kids had to move from Russia. I doubt he'll uproot them again. I doubt he'll uproot himself. He's played his entire career in Montreal.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #279 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:33 am

MP wrote:I just hope Dorian doesn't do anything stupid, like handing over a 1st.


I saw today that LV actually wants Ottawa's 2018 first. Nice of them to go for 30th instead of 28, but I'd still be hesitant when you could probably get someone else for a similar asset cost (who is potentially younger and has ten functional fingers...)

Also - Bruce reporting methot not invited to LV player availability tonight so he has probably already been taken and traded 8D

Watch them select borowiecki...
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #280 by senate » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:48 pm

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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #281 by MP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:19 pm

Frankly, I think Mcphee has totally pooched this expansion draft. He's fallen into hfboredz trap where draft picks are more valuable than actual NHL players.

It'll be interesting to see what they there left with at the end of the night.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #282 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm

If there long term strategy is to build through the draft it makes sense, but like you say - you need some actual talent amidst the potential. You also need to be able to control that talent in your organization as well

Methot seems really not useful to them other than trade bait. Wonder what Dallas is willing to give that Ottawa isn't...
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #283 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:16 pm

What was Ottawa's record down the stretch without methot?

I dunno. Big loss to the d, but there's options here. Hell, just running with Harpur/Claesson/Chabot for his minutes and spending the money and assets on a forward might not be a terrible move....

Personally, I'm upset they didn't lose Chris Wideman.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #284 by MP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:35 pm

I still think Phaneuf is an asshat for not waiving.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #285 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:50 pm

nmc :dunno:
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #286 by RTWAP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:14 pm

People were losing their shit on the radio this afternoon. Personally I'm fine with losing Methot. It's where we have the most depth. And we couldn't have afforded to keep him in a couple years anyway. Instead of leaving Karlsson's next partner as a risky unknown, we have a year to try and figure it out before we try to resign him.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #287 by MP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:28 pm

Karlsson gets snubbed.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #288 by senate » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:34 pm

MP wrote:Karlsson gets snubbed.


By a fair amount too:

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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #289 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:35 pm

he got 3/4/5 votes.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #290 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:51 pm

Shea Weber got more first place votes than PK Subban.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #291 by FH2002 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:24 pm

At least Methot wasn’t there to model the new Las Vegas jersey.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #292 by The Bytown Boozer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:39 am

Ismellofhockey wrote:Markov ain't moving. The Habs for one can't afford to lose him, and they have the money to sign him.
Also, Markov's ex-wife died last year and his kids had to move from Russia. I doubt he'll uproot them again. I doubt he'll uproot himself. He's played his entire career in Montreal.

The Habs can suck my dick. He'd rather play with Karlsson.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #293 by MP » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:27 am

FH2002 wrote:At least Methot wasn’t there to model the new Las Vegas jersey.

IMO, the grey jersey looks terrible.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #294 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:55 am

MP wrote:
FH2002 wrote:At least Methot wasn’t there to model the new Las Vegas jersey.

IMO, the grey jersey looks terrible.

honestly, they reminded me a bit of one of the sens uniforms from the past. i'm not sure whether that means i agree or disagree with you.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #295 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:25 am

They basically have to add now, should be intereting.

Condon signs Monday?
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #296 by MP » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:29 am

I'm thinking we take Oettinger if he's still on the board with our 1st.

EDIT: So Garrioch just posted that Dorian said no goalie with first two picks...
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #297 by The Bytown Boozer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:52 am

MP wrote:
FH2002 wrote:At least Methot wasn’t there to model the new Las Vegas jersey.

IMO, the grey jersey looks terrible.


After so many years of dismal Reebok releases, I was expecting worse. I kinda like that new Knights jersey. In any case it's nicer than what the Sens put out.
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #298 by Ismellofhockey » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:17 pm

The Bytown Boozer wrote:
Ismellofhockey wrote:Markov ain't moving. The Habs for one can't afford to lose him, and they have the money to sign him.
Also, Markov's ex-wife died last year and his kids had to move from Russia. I doubt he'll uproot them again. I doubt he'll uproot himself. He's played his entire career in Montreal.

The Habs can suck my dick. He'd rather play with Karlsson.


Well, I guess the real question is: can I?
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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #299 by The Bytown Boozer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:58 pm

Well it ain't gonna suck itself................................................. hmmm, or will it?



*5 minutes later*



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Re: Summer recess: The Offseason Thread

Post #300 by senate » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:42 am

:nice:


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