Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #51 by senate » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:59 am

Germz wrote:Asked about Turris, Dorion claimed that a 6 year deal was never on the table from the Turris camp. Then he uncomfortably changed the subject. Today is not about Kyle Turris, he said.


In an interview with the Nashville media, Turris said that a 6 year deal was never put on the table by the Senators either. So it seems that both sides could have easily agreed to an extension if they wanted to.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #52 by Ricard_Persson » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:26 pm

Brucey saying that Turris wanted out. That old talk was around from Bryan Murray. I loved that every guy Murray traded wanted out lol.

I don't believe that Turris wanted to leave, but Ottawa did offer 5 years, you would have thought Turris' side may have countered around 6 years. His agent wanted 8 years with the Preds but Poile quickly shut that down. It's a strange one, but maybe he really wanted long term security. I'm shocked he didn't have a NTC in his current deal. Back when he signed it Bryan Murray was dolling out NMC's to everyone like they were Halloween candy. Can't believe Turris didn't have one which would have really complicated this season.

To be fair, I don't know if I want Turris at 6 years. It kind of feels nice to have an upgrade at the top center position. Slots everyone else firmly in place, no questions anymore between Turris, Zibanejad, Brassard and who is #1.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #53 by emo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:30 pm

senate wrote:It is interesting that the media has been saying that Turris wanted 7 years at 6.5 or more per, but he immediately signed for 6 years at 6 million for Nashville. I don't think Dorion ever made an honest attempt to resign him.


I don't believe Nashville has a tax that would affect Turris's salary meaning he could sign for less and take home more than what he wanted in Ottawa. That's a nice bargaining chip for Nashville and could explain the difference in contract offers.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #54 by senate » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:30 pm

The Avs were willing to take Hammond's salary but they didn't want him clogging up their farm system so he will stay in Belleville.

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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #55 by emo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm

Ismellofhockey wrote:True, but those picks have value in a trade. You don't just give them up without getting anything in return. I have a really hard time figuring out what the Sens gained in exchange for those picks and prospects. We could have gone into the playoffs with Turris and another Turris caliber player acquired with Bowers + 1st and 3rd. Instead we have Duchene...


I'm not a huge fan of this deal and your suggestion that we keep Turris and move the other assets for another player of his caliber is great, except for the salary part. Who are you going to get that can fit under the cap?

I don't think Ottawa wanted to commit to Turris for that many years when Stone and Karl will need new contracts and are clearly priorities. Duchene will allow them to stay in a win-now mode and in two years, I'm guessing Ottawa hopes some of the young studs will be ready to step in and Duchene or some other big contract comes off the books.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #56 by MP » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:21 pm

senate wrote:The Avs were willing to take Hammond's salary but they didn't want him clogging up their farm system so he will stay in Belleville.


So I'm thinking Hammond was a salary dump, which I'm guessing cost us our 3rd...
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #57 by Ismellofhockey » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm

emo wrote:
Ismellofhockey wrote:True, but those picks have value in a trade. You don't just give them up without getting anything in return. I have a really hard time figuring out what the Sens gained in exchange for those picks and prospects. We could have gone into the playoffs with Turris and another Turris caliber player acquired with Bowers + 1st and 3rd. Instead we have Duchene...


I'm not a huge fan of this deal and your suggestion that we keep Turris and move the other assets for another player of his caliber is great, except for the salary part. Who are you going to get that can fit under the cap?

I don't think Ottawa wanted to commit to Turris for that many years when Stone and Karl will need new contracts and are clearly priorities. Duchene will allow them to stay in a win-now mode and in two years, I'm guessing Ottawa hopes some of the young studs will be ready to step in and Duchene or some other big contract comes off the books.


Come the deadline, rentals count for very little towards the cap. Or they could have traded for someone less talented signed to a cheaper deal that they could fit over the next 2 years.
Potential rentals this year include: Tavares, Thornton, Nash, Stastny, the Sedins, Neal, E.Kane... there are possibilities. Or at least there were.

If the plan is to win in the next 2 years, I feel this was a step back.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #58 by sensdiehard » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:36 pm

I remember back when the Hawks won their first Cup, and they had Huet as a $5mil backup and Campbell as a $7mil #5 dman. And their fans would brag, haha we won the Cup, we are the greatest. And then we would say, yeah but that asset management, that is brutal. And they would hang their heads in shame slinking off the boards red faced. Yeah, no, asset management not the primary focus for team building.

What a nerdy, missing the forest for the trees that complaint is to me. Oh yeah, we got better but we overpaid. Good grief. I’d note that we were well built and stocked enough that we were in a position to be able to afford to overpay. Unlike other teams, Dudley Dorion got his man. Holding out for a deal where we don’t overpay probably leaves us 5 years later wondering what if, having had Turris walk as a ufa for nothing. We probably don’t have enough spots for all the prospects coming up already. We cant just horde picks indefinitely, paralyzed by fear over what if one of the picks becomes good, unable to ever improve in the present. We can trade one of these players at the deadline in a few years and get picks back if we want, when we are rebuilding. Now is not the time for going all Muckler and refusing to pay the price for what we need.

Silfv, Mika, Turris for Ryan, Brassard, Duchene. Slowly improving the team. Its not a series of fleecings with huge discrete step improvements. Its slowly remaking the team, stronger, faster, better than before, the way a smart small market can. Only thing is that now a $6mil dollar man is on the way out, not the answer.

I was never too crazy about Duchene, like Spezza he doesn’t seem defensively strong enough to me for a real #1 C. But neither was Turris. On a cheap long term contract, Turris was great support. As a guy we want to commit long term at ufa process – not so much. I like the trade. Bold. No sweater vests for Dorion.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #59 by TGR » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:37 pm

Good to see they're leaving #91 for Tavares.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #60 by ColinM » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:34 am

sensdiehard wrote:I remember back when the Hawks won their first Cup, and they had Huet as a $5mil backup and Campbell as a $7mil #5 dman. And their fans would brag, haha we won the Cup, we are the greatest. And then we would say, yeah but that asset management, that is brutal. And they would hang their heads in shame slinking off the boards red faced. Yeah, no, asset management not the primary focus for team building.

What a nerdy, missing the forest for the trees that complaint is to me. Oh yeah, we got better but we overpaid. Good grief. I’d note that we were well built and stocked enough that we were in a position to be able to afford to overpay. Unlike other teams, Dudley Dorion got his man. Holding out for a deal where we don’t overpay probably leaves us 5 years later wondering what if, having had Turris walk as a ufa for nothing. We probably don’t have enough spots for all the prospects coming up already. We cant just horde picks indefinitely, paralyzed by fear over what if one of the picks becomes good, unable to ever improve in the present. We can trade one of these players at the deadline in a few years and get picks back if we want, when we are rebuilding. Now is not the time for going all Muckler and refusing to pay the price.

I was never too crazy about Duchene, like Spezza he doesn’t seem defensively strong enough to me for a real #1 C. But neither was Turris. On a cheap long term contract, Turris was great support. As a guy we want to commit long term at ufa process – not so much. I like the trade. Bold. No sweater vests for Dorion.


Excellent post. Sometimes in life you do not only get burned when you over pay for something you also get burned when you under pay for something. We could have gotten burned by going all in with Terri’s as a number 1 Center.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #61 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:09 am

sensdiehard wrote:I remember back when the Hawks won their first Cup, and they had Huet as a $5mil backup and Campbell as a $7mil #5 dman. And their fans would brag, haha we won the Cup, we are the greatest. And then we would say, yeah but that asset management, that is brutal. And they would hang their heads in shame slinking off the boards red faced. Yeah, no, asset management not the primary focus for team building.

What a nerdy, missing the forest for the trees that complaint is to me. Oh yeah, we got better but we overpaid. Good grief. I’d note that we were well built and stocked enough that we were in a position to be able to afford to overpay. Unlike other teams, Dudley Dorion got his man. Holding out for a deal where we don’t overpay probably leaves us 5 years later wondering what if, having had Turris walk as a ufa for nothing. We probably don’t have enough spots for all the prospects coming up already. We cant just horde picks indefinitely, paralyzed by fear over what if one of the picks becomes good, unable to ever improve in the present. We can trade one of these players at the deadline in a few years and get picks back if we want, when we are rebuilding. Now is not the time for going all Muckler and refusing to pay the price for what we need.

Silfv, Mika, Turris for Ryan, Brassard, Duchene. Slowly improving the team. Its not a series of fleecings with huge discrete step improvements. Its slowly remaking the team, stronger, faster, better than before, the way a smart small market can. Only thing is that now a $6mil dollar man is on the way out, not the answer.

I was never too crazy about Duchene, like Spezza he doesn’t seem defensively strong enough to me for a real #1 C. But neither was Turris. On a cheap long term contract, Turris was great support. As a guy we want to commit long term at ufa process – not so much. I like the trade. Bold. No sweater vests for Dorion.



My problem isn't specifically overpaying for the thing, it is overpaying for no thing. Is Duchene really such an improvement over Turris that it was worth giving up a 1st, a 1st rd prospect and a 3rd? Couldn't the Sens have gotten more for those assets at the deadline while keeping Turris?
As for asset management not being important, assets are a team's currency. Once the currency runs out... The other problem being that if a GM shows he is willing to overpay, why should other GMs accept anything less than overpayment from him? It's a common tactic to ask for packages of different value from teams, ie a "swing for the fences" package, a "good package", a "I'll take it if my back is against the wall" package. Guess who is going to be getting a lot of "swing for the fences" requests from other GMs. Sure, it's not catastrophic. But Dorion is making life harder for himself, which is bad because this trade didn't measurably improve the team IMO.

You're saying you're happy Dorion spent assets on not addressing our lack of a true #1 centre. How does that make sense?
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #62 by BlackRedGold » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:03 am

Ismellofhockey wrote:
sensdiehard wrote:I remember back when the Hawks won their first Cup, and they had Huet as a $5mil backup and Campbell as a $7mil #5 dman. And their fans would brag, haha we won the Cup, we are the greatest. And then we would say, yeah but that asset management, that is brutal. And they would hang their heads in shame slinking off the boards red faced. Yeah, no, asset management not the primary focus for team building.

What a nerdy, missing the forest for the trees that complaint is to me. Oh yeah, we got better but we overpaid. Good grief. I’d note that we were well built and stocked enough that we were in a position to be able to afford to overpay. Unlike other teams, Dudley Dorion got his man. Holding out for a deal where we don’t overpay probably leaves us 5 years later wondering what if, having had Turris walk as a ufa for nothing. We probably don’t have enough spots for all the prospects coming up already. We cant just horde picks indefinitely, paralyzed by fear over what if one of the picks becomes good, unable to ever improve in the present. We can trade one of these players at the deadline in a few years and get picks back if we want, when we are rebuilding. Now is not the time for going all Muckler and refusing to pay the price for what we need.

Silfv, Mika, Turris for Ryan, Brassard, Duchene. Slowly improving the team. Its not a series of fleecings with huge discrete step improvements. Its slowly remaking the team, stronger, faster, better than before, the way a smart small market can. Only thing is that now a $6mil dollar man is on the way out, not the answer.

I was never too crazy about Duchene, like Spezza he doesn’t seem defensively strong enough to me for a real #1 C. But neither was Turris. On a cheap long term contract, Turris was great support. As a guy we want to commit long term at ufa process – not so much. I like the trade. Bold. No sweater vests for Dorion.



My problem isn't specifically overpaying for the thing, it is overpaying for no thing. Is Duchene really such an improvement over Turris that it was worth giving up a 1st, a 1st rd prospect and a 3rd? Couldn't the Sens have gotten more for those assets at the deadline while keeping Turris?
As for asset management not being important, assets are a team's currency. Once the currency runs out... The other problem being that if a GM shows he is willing to overpay, why should other GMs accept anything less than overpayment from him? It's a common tactic to ask for packages of different value from teams, ie a "swing for the fences" package, a "good package", a "I'll take it if my back is against the wall" package. Guess who is going to be getting a lot of "swing for the fences" requests from other GMs. Sure, it's not catastrophic. But Dorion is making life harder for himself, which is bad because this trade didn't measurably improve the team IMO.

You're saying you're happy Dorion spent assets on not addressing our lack of a true #1 centre. How does that make sense?


Lets suppose that Dorion doesn't make the trade and Turris walks in the off-season because signing a 29 year old for 7 years at big money is silly. How do you address the loss of Turris? Other than Tavares, who will be far more expensive, who else is available even for a package of Bowers, a 1st and a 3rd?
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #63 by MP » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:06 am

Joe Thornton?
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #64 by MP » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:08 am

Frankly, I dislike guys who where gold chains while playing hockey, and part of me is happy to see Turris gone.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #65 by emo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:43 am

Ismellofhockey wrote:
Come the deadline, rentals count for very little towards the cap. Or they could have traded for someone less talented signed to a cheaper deal that they could fit over the next 2 years.
Potential rentals this year include: Tavares, Thornton, Nash, Stastny, the Sedins, Neal, E.Kane... there are possibilities. Or at least there were.

If the plan is to win in the next 2 years, I feel this was a step back.


I feel it's more of a lateral move than a step back, but your point about rentals is valid. I do prefer to give up good assets for something that is not a strict rental, but I believe we should be in a win-now mode. However, hoping that we could rent Tavares at the deadline isn't necessarily smart. The likeliness of us getting him is small. That being said, I've always wanted us to get a true #1 C. My thinking was that we could then have Turris as an excellent #2C (much like Nashville is doing). I would still run hard at Tavares. Do we do it as a rental or do we give up a boatload and try to extend him? I'm having trouble picturing that scenario without unloading Ryan or Phaneuf and I can't see the Isles being interested in either. Someone help me figure out how we can package Brass, Phaneuf, and some elite prospects in order to get Tavares. Having him and Duchene would be a fine 1-2 punch down the middle.

Ryan-Tavares-Stone
Hoff-Duchene-Dzingel
Smith-Pageau-Pyatt
McCormick-Thompson-Burrows

Claesson-Karl
Oduya-Ceci
Harpur-Wideman

I've purposely left Chabot and White out of these line-ups because we all know what Tavares will cost. But look at those top two lines and a true shut-down third.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #66 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:24 pm

This is like the longest wait ever to see a new player play. I remember going to the first game in Ottawa after Damien Rhodes was brought in from Toronto. He still had his blue pads, trapper and glove. He played exceptional, and was instantly a fan favorite. Crazy how those moments become. The momentum builds with each save and the crowd gets louder.

Gotta feel bad for Hammond a little. Life moves fast for all of us, but that run he put on will maybe go down as one of the most amazing feats in franchise history. I'd say it is #1 already and may stand the test of time unless something greater happens. When you look at the circumstances and the truly insane record he put together, it was nothing short of magic. I remember being south in March when the Sens were in the middle of that run. I missed maybe 3 or 4 games that week. I remember laying by the pool and refreshing the NHL boxscore page on my phone. They came back in so many games it was almost unbelievable and laughable. Refreshing the score and seeing them pull out late game ties and then OT wins was something I won't forget.

Hammond was in a zone that only goaltenders can find. It was a special run, and I hope him the best and I'm sure he'll look back at that spring run of hockey and shake his head when his career is over. Simply amazing.

The team should put together fairly in-depth clips of special events like last years playoff run and Hammonds run. I think it would be very enjoyable to watch a long, 30-45 film on those condensed games all in one block. When those special unexpected rolls start, a fan never really knows how special it is because they can't see the future and how long it will actually roll for. It would be nice to look back on those two runs with something more than a 2 minute montage.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #67 by Fruity Pebbles » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:25 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:
Ismellofhockey wrote:
sensdiehard wrote:I remember back when the Hawks won their first Cup, and they had Huet as a $5mil backup and Campbell as a $7mil #5 dman. And their fans would brag, haha we won the Cup, we are the greatest. And then we would say, yeah but that asset management, that is brutal. And they would hang their heads in shame slinking off the boards red faced. Yeah, no, asset management not the primary focus for team building.

What a nerdy, missing the forest for the trees that complaint is to me. Oh yeah, we got better but we overpaid. Good grief. I’d note that we were well built and stocked enough that we were in a position to be able to afford to overpay. Unlike other teams, Dudley Dorion got his man. Holding out for a deal where we don’t overpay probably leaves us 5 years later wondering what if, having had Turris walk as a ufa for nothing. We probably don’t have enough spots for all the prospects coming up already. We cant just horde picks indefinitely, paralyzed by fear over what if one of the picks becomes good, unable to ever improve in the present. We can trade one of these players at the deadline in a few years and get picks back if we want, when we are rebuilding. Now is not the time for going all Muckler and refusing to pay the price for what we need.

Silfv, Mika, Turris for Ryan, Brassard, Duchene. Slowly improving the team. Its not a series of fleecings with huge discrete step improvements. Its slowly remaking the team, stronger, faster, better than before, the way a smart small market can. Only thing is that now a $6mil dollar man is on the way out, not the answer.

I was never too crazy about Duchene, like Spezza he doesn’t seem defensively strong enough to me for a real #1 C. But neither was Turris. On a cheap long term contract, Turris was great support. As a guy we want to commit long term at ufa process – not so much. I like the trade. Bold. No sweater vests for Dorion.



My problem isn't specifically overpaying for the thing, it is overpaying for no thing. Is Duchene really such an improvement over Turris that it was worth giving up a 1st, a 1st rd prospect and a 3rd? Couldn't the Sens have gotten more for those assets at the deadline while keeping Turris?
As for asset management not being important, assets are a team's currency. Once the currency runs out... The other problem being that if a GM shows he is willing to overpay, why should other GMs accept anything less than overpayment from him? It's a common tactic to ask for packages of different value from teams, ie a "swing for the fences" package, a "good package", a "I'll take it if my back is against the wall" package. Guess who is going to be getting a lot of "swing for the fences" requests from other GMs. Sure, it's not catastrophic. But Dorion is making life harder for himself, which is bad because this trade didn't measurably improve the team IMO.

You're saying you're happy Dorion spent assets on not addressing our lack of a true #1 centre. How does that make sense?


Lets suppose that Dorion doesn't make the trade and Turris walks in the off-season because signing a 29 year old for 7 years at big money is silly. How do you address the loss of Turris? Other than Tavares, who will be far more expensive, who else is available even for a package of Bowers, a 1st and a 3rd?


I think this is where I would have liked to have seen patience, wait until further in the season and then maybe an all in attempt this year using our picks to acquire instead of swapping centers.

I understand it brings us some certainty the following season... but the message I got was "just trying to manage the future of the team" and not "we're trying to win now". And all this does is buy us 1 year which is somewhat significant but it just kicks the center problem a year down the road and lines it up with "how much is Karlsson going to get paid or will he walk out on us?".
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #68 by edgar_dong » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:34 pm

I have it on good authority that Karlsson will leave our mighty Ottawa Sens to join those dastardly Habs.
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #69 by Ricard_Persson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:39 pm

Listening to Dorion talk on hockey central yesterday it's apparent he's already worked on a plan with ownership to present an offer to Duchene before his current deal expires. He was careful to warm the guys that he can't talk to a player about a contract at this point in time, but then said sheepishly that he was very comfortable with his agent, and has a great relationship with Brisson.

So, he basically talked to his agent on the likelihood of Duchene staying in Ottawa and had the agent relay the information back to the player. No way anyone does that deal without that internal plan in place to have him as your #1 for at least the next 5 years.

I think that's as simple as this deal is. Ottawa wanted Duchene as their number 1 instead of Turris for the next half decade and they went out and made it happen. I feel that they think he will bump his game and numbers up a level playing with a much better group around him and not playing against top coverage every shift.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #70 by sensdiehard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:35 pm

I’m not suggesting that asset management isn’t important, it goes without saying you always want to do the best you can. Im saying when weighing all the various factors, maximizing asset management isn’t my first priority to optimize. Sometimes the best move is to specifically not focus on asset management optimization but rather on taking the risks to get the best team within the salary cap management framework.

Is Duchene worth giving a 1st, a prospect that was a 1st, a 3rd, and a cap dump and avoiding losing Turris for nothing? Maybe, but im not concerned with that answer. Management wanted a particular role that Duchene could fill. Thornton wouldn’t fill it, nor the Sedins, nor Neal, Kane, or Nash. My question is whether we can afford to do it, and does this improve us? Yes and Yes. Then I don’t care if it is sufficient enough of a fleecing to do it.

Yes, why should I get married this year. I mean what if Beyonce or Jennifer Lawrence becomes available next year. Shouldn’t I wait in case something better comes along? This is a standard question for us guys isn’t it? But finding the right fit for a hockey team isn’t easy. If we are going to put off doing anything in case Tavares becomes available, we will likely end up worse off then “overspending” for Duchene now. Carpe pending ufa.

We could have traded a 1st and a Bowers equivalent at anytime in the last decade at the deadline. But we didn’t. But all of a sudden this year, we should have waited for the perfect deal to come along? Sounds like Muckler thinking to me. Might even be riskier and less worth it.

It is really hard to acquire key assets. Getting one a year can be good progress. I asked my grandma for a Fender telecaster. She got me a cheap knockoff. It looks the same, isn’t nearly as good, but man what a deal. That’s how my grandma thinks. She focuses on her asset management.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #71 by mayoradamwest » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:02 pm

I think part of it is when you choose to spend your prospect capital. Right now, this makes a lot of sense.

Now a few prospects are going to flame out, but with chabot/white/brown they should get hopefully 2 nhlers or whatever talent level. Add in the second tier guys like formenton and the oddly deep D corps and there's less of a need for prospects.

Especially with the goal of keeping Karlsson, one year after nearly making the finals is not a bad time to go for it. If things do go south, the contracts coming up at once mean they can rebuild then as well. Hopefully that isn't be case, but it's a reasonable thought.

I still think they need another forward, but they also still have the means to get someone.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #72 by Ismellofhockey » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:44 pm

Again I have no problem with actually spending the assets, nor with the idea of going for it. I have a problem with the fact that Turris already filled that role, and quite well. Sens brass seems to believe that Brassard had surpassed Turris, and they went out and got someone better than Brassard. I has serious reserves about that judgment. I just don't see Duchene as much of an upgrade. I hope seeing him play will prove me wrong.

We didn't get married to the girl we'd been with for 5 years. We got married to some floozy we just met who may or may not be better than what we had.



As for Hammond, that stretch run earned him $4.5M. I'm disappointed he couldn't have more luck in terms of injuries, but I don't feel bad for him. He was lucky to catch lightning in a bottle just as his contract was up.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #73 by Puck » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:26 pm

Does anyone have a guess how much Duchesne will cost (his next contract)?
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #74 by MP » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:39 pm

I'm guessing $8M per? But who knows, Duchene now knows Dorion has a stiffy for him, so its tempting to ask for more...
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #75 by Fruity Pebbles » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:11 pm

I guess the one thing is Duchene does look genuinely excited to be out of purgatory and on a team that wants him. Hopefully that helps him achieve new heights. I know The Score used some numbers to try to push this idea that Duchene is considerably better than Turris over the past 3 seasons but I don't buy it. Duchene has played with MacKinnon (the guy usually focused as the #1) taking a lot of pressure off his shoulders. Turris has had nobody since Spezza left. He had Zibanejad who was a streaky clear cut #2 for us. He had Brassard last year who put up abysmal numbers. Turris this year with Dzingel and Smith/Pyatt has shown he can still contribute and was outscoring Duchene while being in almost the exact same position as Duchene - Brassard's line was and is the #1 line threat.

I'm going to give him a fair shake but it's a lot to give up for what will most likely turn out to be an extra year of a guy similar to Kyle Turris in production. Duchene might be the better player but it's negligible stuff. I guess the hope is in the playoffs his "gamebreaking ability" can appear more... but then again Turris had some big playoff goals for this team and assist on some other key ones that tied games or were part of a big comeback. Perhaps part of the feeling in the Sens organization was that although Turris was involve in some big moments - maybe he wasn't as dominant overall in the playoffs and games. Still sucks to lose that clutch ability. There are those 3 big OT goals - 2 against the Rangers, 1 against Montreal but he had an important goal in the Bruins series, he set up some important goals in the Rangers series.

I guess I can see where people calling it "bold" are coming from. It's definitely a big gamble and he and Boucher went out and got who they wanted.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #76 by mayoradamwest » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:24 pm

One of the victories was 2008, with Pat Quinn coaching. On that team: Matt Duchene. On Quinn’s staff: Guy Boucher. Boucher ran the power play, and Duchene had a power play hat trick during a round-robin game against Slovakia. He led the team in that tournament with five goals, the last one coming 37 seconds after Sweden took a 1-0 lead in the semifinals. Canada came back to win that game 3-2 and blew out Russia 8-0 for the gold. Boucher’s been a fan since.


Found this interesting from Elliot Friedman.

I will miss turris's drag shot.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #77 by Puck » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:04 pm

MP wrote:I'm guessing $8M per? But who knows, Duchene now knows Dorion has a stiffy for him, so its tempting to ask for more...
I was thinking the same.

But you have to think that his performance with the Sens will determine the final number.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #78 by sensdiehard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:57 pm

Ismellofhockey wrote:
We didn't get married to the girl we'd been with for 5 years. We got married to some floozy we just met who may or may not be better than what we had.


Hehe, you say that like its a bad thing. Well sure, i guess that what we will find out. A lot of people seem to think that Duchene will fit better going forward and that he is an upgrade over Turris, including, importantly, our management team. If they are wrong and you are right, well you will have lots of rep coming your way.

I think Turris was great on the value contract that we had him on in a support role. IT felt like a mixed reaction to me from fans whether he was considered a core player long term. But committing to him with #1C dollars for a long term is a different matter. Especially when the sexy floozy we've been flirting with really wants us. Hopefully the honeymoon lasts a while
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #79 by Skrymir » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:44 am

So assuming Stone gets 7m, Duchene gets 8m and Karlsson 10m how the hell do we fill out a roster without shedding one or both of Phaneuf and Ryan?
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #80 by MP » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:56 am

You trade away Ceci, Smith & Pageau, Burrows retires, and your ride your ELC's like rented mules...
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #81 by ColinM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:34 pm

Skrymir wrote:So assuming Stone gets 7m, Duchene gets 8m and Karlsson 10m how the hell do we fill out a roster without shedding one or both of Phaneuf and Ryan?


I think the plan is to let Brassard walk for nothing. His contract is up the same offseason Karlsson and Duchene's is. Pageau becomes the new Brassard and Colin White becomes the new Pageau.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #82 by MP » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:26 pm

I don't like the idea of Pageau as our No. 2 C... Hopefully white or brown can fill that role, or Brassard comes back at a significant discount.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #83 by TGR » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:39 pm

2 pages and no mention of the Ottawa Giants.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #84 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:06 pm

Turris a goal on debut
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #85 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:14 pm

and he takes down letang during a scrap in front of the net. :thumbs up
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #86 by Fruity Pebbles » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 pm

It's tough to evaluate the trade. We dominated Colorado in terms of shots for/against and if this keeps up against other teams as well... you have to wonder if Duchene is part of this reason.

I love Turris and I'm still not sure about the trade but we'll see.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #87 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:01 pm

Turris the #1 star! ! !
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #88 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:02 pm

ive seen rocks given better interviews tho
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #89 by Ricard_Persson » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:28 am

God love Turris, but he gives the most boring interviews. He shouldn’t even be interviewed between periods. It’s a buzz kill in an intense game.

Apparently he’s more human away from the mic.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #90 by MP » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:14 pm

So Boucher going:
Hoff-Duch-Ryan
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #91 by Ricard_Persson » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:16 pm

MP wrote:So Boucher going:
Hoff-Duch-Ryan



:ferreturbation:
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #92 by emo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:52 pm

MP wrote:So Boucher going:
Hoff-Duch-Ryan


I heard him say today that he was going to try:

Hoff-Brass-Stone
Ryan-Duchene-Dzing
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #93 by Ismellofhockey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:32 am

Ricard_Persson wrote:God love Turris, but he gives the most boring interviews. He shouldn’t even be interviewed between periods. It’s a buzz kill in an intense game.

Apparently he’s more human away from the mic.



You actually watch player interviews?


Ahead in the game:
Ah we wanted to come out strong and we did... We have to keep it up in the next period... Yeah player X is a great guy, having a good game but he's had a strong year for us, just a great player to watch...

Behind in the game:
Ah we need to refocus and regroup, and come out strong in the next period... If we stick to the game plan things will get better... Yeah player X is a great guy, having a good game but he's had a strong year for us, just a great player to watch...


If I watch one more I think the platitudes will melt the skin from my skull Raiders of the Lost Ark style.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #94 by The Bytown Boozer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:52 pm

-Yeah... uhhh I think we just have to keep skating hard and uhhhh... good things will happen.

-Jarplon McJarple, thanks for this.

-Ok. Thanks.

*heavy breathing*
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #95 by TGR » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:55 pm

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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #96 by TGR » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:09 pm

2 more points for Turris.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #97 by Ismellofhockey » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm

Move over Duchene, there's a new pet in town.

Sens have claimed Gabriel Dumont from TB. Played for Boucher in juniors, nothing else of note about him. The Sens have a lot of road games coming up, so he may just be insurance eating nachos in the pressbox instead of taking a kid away from Belleville. Then again Pyatt and DiDomenico show that I should have more faith in Boucher's scrap heap reclamations.
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Re: Duchene a Senator, Turris not a Senator

Post #98 by Ricard_Persson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:38 pm

Probably just a guy you never hear from again, but the Tampa/Syracuse people seem upset he was waived. Hard worker seems to be the top item description for Dumont.

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