Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #501 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:38 pm

Is the organization sending Hoffman a message?
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #502 by MP » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:34 am

mayoradamwest wrote:Erik condra was a good third line player, but to Ottawa he maybe at best would mean what, one or two more winds over the bourse of the year? He just seems so dime a dozen, I can't fathom not wanting to be better. On an excellent team, he's a fourth liner, no? If Ottawa is that good and the fourth line is their toronto blue jays pitching staff, I'm sure they'll be able to find a rental guy if it's that important.

It looks like they're giving Matt puempel a real shot to make the team.

I just had a tech in my office who was irate at Murray for letting "the best defensive player in the league" walk. Stating "we will allow 50 more goals against" and "be worse than buffalo" this season because of Condra.

My thought was meh, dime a dozen player on a good cap hit cap, but then we got in a debate over the validity of advanced stats versus watching the player... I gave up.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #503 by Ricard_Persson » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:30 pm

The Condra love is strange. He did finish strong but he couldn't fetch a 5th round pick in January.

Once Maclean benched him, Condra really turned it around when I'm sure he realized this could be it in the NHL. It can end fast in this league now. He came back under Cameron with a scared shitless look and simply busted his nuts up and down the ice and it took over his line and maybe even fed the team.

His stretch play was brilliant but it was all hustle and bounces and it would be impossible to continue that for 3 terms.


We remember the good in the last 12 weeks, but man this guy had no skill or hands. He was awful and the team lost points because of his missed opportunities over the last couple of seasons. Prince looked pretty in his time last year and Puempel looked even better. This is a gain by March of next year. Either will be better than AnaCondra.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #504 by Ricard_Persson » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:40 pm

I love Bryan Murray's quotes on Condra:

"He almost hit the net more often than not"


:paulrus:


And he also had a good one about trying to replace Condra's 9 goals next year. Can't find it.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #505 by senate » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:50 pm

Condra is the darling boy for the analytic fetishists and the analytic fetishist fetishists that follow them on twitter. His actual contribution to the team, his abilities, and his potential are all irrelevant. Only his stats matter.

Also, just a reminder to everyone: at the middle of last season, Sixthsens (aka Condraluva69) wanted to dump Karlsson for picks and prospects.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #506 by Fruity Pebbles » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:44 pm

senate wrote:Condra is the darling boy for the analytic fetishists and the analytic fetishist fetishists that follow them on twitter. His actual contribution to the team, his abilities, and his potential are all irrelevant. Only his stats matter.

Also, just a reminder to everyone: at the middle of last season, Sixthsens (aka Condraluva69) wanted to dump Karlsson for picks and prospects.


It's fun to go around trolling them.

And for some reason they always fall back on "well statistics are really good for projecting the results of bad possession teams that overachieved!". I've always responded with - well what the hell does that have to do with individual players? I don't need some lame first year statistical analysis that says "GOOD TEAMS THAT CONTROL THE PLAY ARE GOOD!". If I'm a GM - I need to know which players are key contributors to success. I need to know who can gain possession. I need to know who is good at maintaining possession. I need to know the coaching systems and hire a particular style of coach.

I dislike most of the people in analytics these days. Many of them are amateurs (it's funny because I took many statistics courses, I do work involving statistics and yet I'm met with "well you just don't understand").

Moneyball has set analytics back years if not a decade or more. The fact that the MLB organizations - despite embracing analytics - still don't heavily rely on it should tell you something if you're a hockey fan. And yet if you go to HFBoards or a lot of these blogs... none of them seem to get it. It has become almost like a cult. There's no self reflection, no acknowledgement that there are limitations, etc...
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #507 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:10 pm

I'll always remember the multiple occasions where I got excited to see a Senators breakaway, only to lose interest when I realized it was Condra.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #508 by King Clancy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:42 pm

Love Condra for the cerebral style he plays, but he's replacement level. Hence, he's being replaced.

MP, tell that tech to check out some dude named Patrice Bergeron one of these days.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #509 by Ismellofhockey » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:37 pm

Dot wrote:
senate wrote:Condra is the darling boy for the analytic fetishists and the analytic fetishist fetishists that follow them on twitter. His actual contribution to the team, his abilities, and his potential are all irrelevant. Only his stats matter.

Also, just a reminder to everyone: at the middle of last season, Sixthsens (aka Condraluva69) wanted to dump Karlsson for picks and prospects.


It's fun to go around trolling them.

And for some reason they always fall back on "well statistics are really good for projecting the results of bad possession teams that overachieved!". I've always responded with - well what the hell does that have to do with individual players? I don't need some lame first year statistical analysis that says "GOOD TEAMS THAT CONTROL THE PLAY ARE GOOD!". If I'm a GM - I need to know which players are key contributors to success. I need to know who can gain possession. I need to know who is good at maintaining possession. I need to know the coaching systems and hire a particular style of coach.

I dislike most of the people in analytics these days. Many of them are amateurs (it's funny because I took many statistics courses, I do work involving statistics and yet I'm met with "well you just don't understand").

Moneyball has set analytics back years if not a decade or more. The fact that the MLB organizations - despite embracing analytics - still don't heavily rely on it should tell you something if you're a hockey fan. And yet if you go to HFBoards or a lot of these blogs... none of them seem to get it. It has become almost like a cult. There's no self reflection, no acknowledgement that there are limitations, etc...


The appeal of being able to claim you know players without having to watch them is strong
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #510 by discostu » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:32 pm

I read an article today on free agent frenzy that had both Toronto and Kessel in the "winners" category, and Ottawa as a loser due to the loss of Condra.

While the emotional devastation was hard to take, my employer was sympathetic, and allowed me to take a sick day as I seek out counselling.

The three year term was the likely sticking point. Murray seems confident in this teams prospect pipeline, especially for low end forwards., but, in a year where he saw a number of rookies break through, it seems entirely reasonable to keep some roster spots open for the next batch.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #511 by Ricard_Persson » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Somebody rep that Dot fella. I can't seem to find them thar buttons.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #512 by TGR » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:36 pm

There are lies, there are bigger lies and then there are statistics.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #513 by Skrymir » Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:23 am

I thought the quote was: There are lies, damn lies and statistics.


A company is hiring a new accountant and the interview consists of only one question: "what is one plus one". Applicant after applicant answers "two" and are confused as they are sent on their way not getting the job. The person who got the job finally answered "what do you want it to equal?".
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #514 by Thomas Malthus » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:13 am

Skrymir wrote:I thought the quote was: There are lies, damn lies and statistics.


A company is hiring a new accountant and the interview consists of only one question: "what is one plus one". Applicant after applicant answers "two" and are confused as they are sent on their way not getting the job. The person who got the job finally answered "what do you want it to equal?".


I like the version with the accountant, the mathematician and the economist responding to the PM's question of what the government's budget is.
"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." - Ronald Coase
"[...]all models are wrong, some are useful." - George E. P. Box
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #515 by King Clancy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:36 am

What bugs me most about the stats nerds is that a lot of them (possibly the younger, less experienced ones?) crap on coaches and gms who don't make decisions based solely on the underlying stats they favour that day. That MannyElk fellow does that a lot. He's just so much smarter than everyone else.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into coaching than just filling out a lineup cards and numbering lines. Players have to progress, not remain the same. They have to improve. When they get sent down, they need to be told what they need to do to come back up.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into scouting than just reading from a spreadsheet. Yes, character does matter. Kids with character are likelier to work on their flaws and improve, and carve out long careers. Kids without it are likelier to get drunk or stoned on off nights and plateau or flame out early. Character has become a dirty word, and that's retarded. Just don't overpay for it. Don't get a player only because of it. But given the choice between two guys of similar talent levels, pick character, always.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into being a GM than filling holes in a lineup. You have to surround younger players with vets. The players have to want to come to your team. You have to make it palatable, sell your city. You have to project future production and weigh it against current prices. You have to establish a pipeline and make room for players to at least feel like they can compete for a spot.

That said, many of the stats nerds aren't like that, and are quite reasonable. I'd love to drink beers with that Dubas guy one of these days, for example, and pick his brain. I'm a nerd too after all.

Stats have their place, obviously. Just don't look at them in a vacuum.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #516 by Skrymir » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:42 am

http://www.tsn.ca/sens-chiasson-hoffman ... n-1.326035

So both Chiasson and Hoffman opt for arbitration.. could spell the end for those two as I have the feeling the ask is way out from where Murray wants to pay them.

Other interesting names on the list too:

Other notable names include Arizona Coyotes forward Mikkel Boedker, Detroit Red Wings winger Gustav Nyquist, New York Rangers forward Derek Stepan, Philadelphia Flyers defenceman Michael Del Zotto and Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #517 by BlackRedGold » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:56 am

Dot wrote:
senate wrote:Condra is the darling boy for the analytic fetishists and the analytic fetishist fetishists that follow them on twitter. His actual contribution to the team, his abilities, and his potential are all irrelevant. Only his stats matter.

Also, just a reminder to everyone: at the middle of last season, Sixthsens (aka Condraluva69) wanted to dump Karlsson for picks and prospects.


It's fun to go around trolling them.

And for some reason they always fall back on "well statistics are really good for projecting the results of bad possession teams that overachieved!". I've always responded with - well what the hell does that have to do with individual players? I don't need some lame first year statistical analysis that says "GOOD TEAMS THAT CONTROL THE PLAY ARE GOOD!". If I'm a GM - I need to know which players are key contributors to success. I need to know who can gain possession. I need to know who is good at maintaining possession. I need to know the coaching systems and hire a particular style of coach.

I dislike most of the people in analytics these days. Many of them are amateurs (it's funny because I took many statistics courses, I do work involving statistics and yet I'm met with "well you just don't understand").

Moneyball has set analytics back years if not a decade or more. The fact that the MLB organizations - despite embracing analytics - still don't heavily rely on it should tell you something if you're a hockey fan. And yet if you go to HFBoards or a lot of these blogs... none of them seem to get it. It has become almost like a cult. There's no self reflection, no acknowledgement that there are limitations, etc...


The "advanced" stats are a silly trend that will seem like cooperalls in 20 years time. Analytics makes sense in baseball because all the events are independent to each other. You can isolate and extrapolate. With hockey everything is intertwined. It's like judging songs based upon their stats. I wonder if the silly stat lovers are on music boards also proclaiming that the latest Justin Bieber song is superior to the latest Nickelback song because it has 18% more chords in the bridge?
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #518 by Skrymir » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:10 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:
Dot wrote:
senate wrote:Condra is the darling boy for the analytic fetishists and the analytic fetishist fetishists that follow them on twitter. His actual contribution to the team, his abilities, and his potential are all irrelevant. Only his stats matter.

Also, just a reminder to everyone: at the middle of last season, Sixthsens (aka Condraluva69) wanted to dump Karlsson for picks and prospects.


It's fun to go around trolling them.

And for some reason they always fall back on "well statistics are really good for projecting the results of bad possession teams that overachieved!". I've always responded with - well what the hell does that have to do with individual players? I don't need some lame first year statistical analysis that says "GOOD TEAMS THAT CONTROL THE PLAY ARE GOOD!". If I'm a GM - I need to know which players are key contributors to success. I need to know who can gain possession. I need to know who is good at maintaining possession. I need to know the coaching systems and hire a particular style of coach.

I dislike most of the people in analytics these days. Many of them are amateurs (it's funny because I took many statistics courses, I do work involving statistics and yet I'm met with "well you just don't understand").

Moneyball has set analytics back years if not a decade or more. The fact that the MLB organizations - despite embracing analytics - still don't heavily rely on it should tell you something if you're a hockey fan. And yet if you go to HFBoards or a lot of these blogs... none of them seem to get it. It has become almost like a cult. There's no self reflection, no acknowledgement that there are limitations, etc...


The "advanced" stats are a silly trend that will seem like cooperalls in 20 years time. Analytics makes sense in baseball because all the events are independent to each other. You can isolate and extrapolate. With hockey everything is intertwined. It's like judging songs based upon their stats. I wonder if the silly stat lovers are on music boards also proclaiming that the latest Justin Bieber song is superior to the latest Nickelback song because it has 18% more chords in the bridge?


I think Advanced stats have a long way to go before they're something you can hang your hat on... each of the stats tell you something but not everything. You still have to watch the games to evaluate properly.

As for your music analogy I can usually tell a good song from a bad song by the sheet music. In the example you gave I would just see "Bieber" and "Nickelback" and throw them in the trash. But beyond that if you can sight read music and know a little music theory you can get a decent gist of how a song will sound without actually hearing it. If the song is well written the performer is just the last piece... similar to movies where the actors are less important than the script.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #519 by Fruity Pebbles » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:55 pm

I think the movie has hurt a lot more than the book. I still remember that scene where the scouts are ignored entirely. They're meant to come off as dinosaurs in a new world. It's hilariously inaccurate.

And you follow some of these analytics blogs, some of these posters on forums and you can tell that's really what they believe - only for hockey. A sport much more fluid (meaning more variables where analytics is less valuable).

Anyone who really believes it was analytics that was the main reason the Oakland As were relevant for that period of time is full of it...
It's essentially the same thing as Don Cherry complaining about Toronto not calling up Colton Orr.... or talking up Nolan, Clifford and 3rd/4th line players for Los Angeles as a big reason why LA wins cups and is so competitive.

No one is saying that a good 3rd/4th line doesn't help or that role players aren't useful but lets try to have some perspective... they're still roleplayers.
The As had really good pitching during the "analytics years". Their 3 best pitchers over that stretch were drafted high and they were scouted and recommended by the scouting staff. The LA Kings have had Kopitar, Doughty, Quick anchoring them.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #520 by mayoradamwest » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:37 pm

At least we got something shiny and new. :)
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #521 by senate » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:33 pm

Ken Warren ‏@Citizenkwarren 3h3 hours ago
Take note, Senators fans: Alex Chiasson arbitration date scheduled for July 23, Mike Hoffman scheduled arbitration date July 30
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #522 by Redden Punches Faces » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:20 pm

folks, is it kosher to hate all of stat nerds, eyeball test old timer scouts, blackredgold, and hockey in general? plop me into that camp if so. :voiceofreason:
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #523 by Morp » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:23 pm

the more people you hate, the more accurate your perceptions of humanity are :gary:
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #524 by Merp » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:24 pm

speaking of hating people...


:gary:
Gary:
:Gary:
:faceialwaysuse:
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #525 by Skrymir » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:27 am

*Crickets*

Been quiet here...

Was wondering what people thought Chiasson and Hoffman will get in arbitration.

Chiasson likely won't get much and his award, whatever it is, will likely be well below the walk away amount but could be more than the sens feel should be paid to a 3rd/4th liner so it may usher in a trade so they can promote a younger less expensive player.

Hoffman is a really unique case and I don't think there is a comparable situation that has ever gone to arbitration before. He could get north of the walk away amount (3.8mil) and I'm wondering what the award would have to be before the sens entertained that notion. It's clear they don't consider him a top line forward but it's hard to ignore 27 goals where 25 were at even strength even if the sample size is just one season. Another wild card is that this is the first year advanced stats can be used as evidence during arbitration and as many advanced stats advocates will tell you Hoffman had really good numbers in that respect.

Anyways back to your BBQs and wine tasting parties or whatever you guys are doing.

Cheers!
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #526 by MP » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:44 am

Hoffman should get less than Stone. Chiason's award is irrelevant.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #527 by Murphy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:51 pm

I'd be surprised they actually make it to arbitration.

Who's the last player that didn't get signed right before arbitration by B. Murr?

I remember reading something that he doesn't like the confrontational nature of it. Or something like that.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #528 by Mawd » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:09 pm

i can't remember a case that seemed so destined for arbitration. 27 goals... Too bad for him that he's not allowed to use bobby Ryan as a comparable.

I'm really curious what the sens genuinely believe he's worth. Not the starting number they offered, but what they're actually willing to pay him. If Craig Smith just got what he did, how can an arbitrator not put Hoffman close to the 4 million range?


Chiasson.... Why would he even hit 1.5 million?
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #529 by RTWAP » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:56 pm

I know what I think Hoffman is worth. 2 years in the 3-3.25 mil range. But I expect he'll get more because Goals!
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #530 by senate » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:38 pm

Hoffman's demands aren't as bad as I thought they'd be.

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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #531 by BlackRedGold » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:14 pm

At that price I wouldn't be surprised if they arrived at a deal before arbitration like Stepan did.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #532 by RTWAP » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:53 pm

Yah. Pretty low. I'm surprised by both figures.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #533 by Skrymir » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:54 am

RTWAP wrote:Yah. Pretty low. I'm surprised by both figures.
Me too. I expected the ask to be over $4M, and the Sens position at $1.75M is way below what I thought they'd offer.

I'd be happy with a 2 year contract with an AAV $2.75M (similar to the first 2 years of Anders Lee's contract, who is really the only comparable I can find for Hoffman); any more and he'll be over paid, much less and it'll be a bargain.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #534 by TGR » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:32 pm

King Clancy wrote:What bugs me most about the stats nerds is that a lot of them (possibly the younger, less experienced ones?) crap on coaches and gms who don't make decisions based solely on the underlying stats they favour that day. That MannyElk fellow does that a lot. He's just so much smarter than everyone else.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into coaching than just filling out a lineup cards and numbering lines. Players have to progress, not remain the same. They have to improve. When they get sent down, they need to be told what they need to do to come back up.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into scouting than just reading from a spreadsheet. Yes, character does matter. Kids with character are likelier to work on their flaws and improve, and carve out long careers. Kids without it are likelier to get drunk or stoned on off nights and plateau or flame out early. Character has become a dirty word, and that's retarded. Just don't overpay for it. Don't get a player only because of it. But given the choice between two guys of similar talent levels, pick character, always.

Hey, nerds, there's a hell of a lot more that goes into being a GM than filling holes in a lineup. You have to surround younger players with vets. The players have to want to come to your team. You have to make it palatable, sell your city. You have to project future production and weigh it against current prices. You have to establish a pipeline and make room for players to at least feel like they can compete for a spot.

That said, many of the stats nerds aren't like that, and are quite reasonable. I'd love to drink beers with that Dubas guy one of these days, for example, and pick his brain. I'm a nerd too after all.

Stats have their place, obviously. Just don't look at them in a vacuum.


Most of those nerds have no clue what you just said considering they probably never even played beer league pick-up hockey.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #535 by The Bytown Boozer » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:44 am

MacCarthur - Tourist - the Stone of Triumph
MIck - Z.Jàd - le Bob
Alex Shitter - Juan-Gab - the Hoff
Curt Laz - Jim O'B - NEARL!!

Extra attacker: Zed Smith.

Defence: lest Jerry Cowen be more lion than scarecrow, I'm guessing that the 2nd and 3rd pairing are probably shit.

Goaltending: they call it 'hockey' but they should really call it 'goalie'. If Anderson & Karlsson play well, we win.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #536 by The Bytown Boozer » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:25 pm

@Senators 2m2 minutes ago
Breaking News: #NHL arbitrator has awarded #Sens Mike Hoffman a one-year deal at $2.0 million.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #537 by RTWAP » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:27 pm

Wow. I really don't have a handle on this stuff. I thought he'd get close to $3 mil.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #538 by senate » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:07 pm

RTWAP wrote:Wow. I really don't have a handle on this stuff. I thought he'd get close to $3 mil.


Me either. Because of the crazy the contracts being thrown at young players the last few years, before his arbitration request leaked I expected him to ask for and get over $4 million.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #539 by NyQuil » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:17 pm

Hi everyone.

Anyway, back to summer.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #540 by RTWAP » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:13 am

Who was that masqued man?

Image
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #541 by TGR » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:51 pm

Bruce Garrioch
‏@SunGarrioch
Chris Phillips will be fine for camp. Will skate this week. #Sens have spoken to Martin Havlat's agent Allan Walsh about possible PTO.


Why....?
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #542 by RTWAP » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:25 pm

TGR wrote:
Bruce Garrioch
‏@SunGarrioch
Chris Phillips will be fine for camp. Will skate this week. #Sens have spoken to Martin Havlat's agent Allan Walsh about possible PTO.


Why....?


Sign Havlat for cheap.
Trade Nick Paul, Peumpel and a 1st for Eric Staal (minus a few mil).

Role three very good lines.

MacArthur-Staal-Stone
Hoffman-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Zibby-Havlat

It's a typical fanboi jeans-creaming extravaganza of the improbable mixed with the insane.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #543 by TGR » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:50 pm

I was refering to Phillips skating and fine for training camp.

WHYYYYYYY?!
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #544 by senate » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:01 pm

TGR wrote:I was refering to Phillips skating and fine for training camp.

WHYYYYYYY?!


Penance. Neil and Phillips are the Ottawa Senators' Mortification of the Flesh.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #545 by Ricard_Persson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:17 pm

The Staals are the most over rated players in hockey family history. They're one season wonders and riding the name.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #546 by MP » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:48 pm

Eric is above average. It's the others that aren't.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #547 by The Bytown Boozer » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:21 am

So if the improbable happens and Martin Havlat outplays most Ottawa forwards, does he make the team or is this more of a Theo Fleury situation?
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #548 by mayoradamwest » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:33 pm

can't fathom he'd actually make the team.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #549 by The Bytown Boozer » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:28 pm

Too late. I've already ordered the commemorative plates.
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Re: Ottawa Senators Cap&Roster Discussion

Post #550 by King Clancy » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:43 pm

I'll wait for the dvd gift set.

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