ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1501 by vf » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:46 pm

Babcock continues playing him 20+ minutes a night. I'll trust the best coach on the planet. I'm not blindly ignoring anything, stats give you a snapshot of what's happened, but, does nothing for evaluating player confidence, for learning systems or player development. I'm not going to blindly ignore what the best coach on the planet is doing and put my faith in some garbage advanced stats based off of biased counting stats.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1502 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:54 pm

vf wrote:Babcock continues playing him 20+ minutes a night. I'll trust the best coach on the planet. I'm not blindly ignoring anything, stats give you a snapshot of what's happened, but, does nothing for evaluating player confidence, for learning systems or player development. I'm not going to blindly ignore what the best coach on the planet is doing and put my faith in some garbage advanced stats based off of biased counting stats.

What is his alternative lol
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1503 by Thomas Malthus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:33 pm

The greatest coach on the planet (which may or may not be Babs, but let's say it is) has a long track record of handing guys with limited skillsets large minutes. This is a blind spot of his. Additionally, who is Babs going to play over Zaitsev on the right hand side?

As AZ said, even if you don't want to look at the many different stats Zaitsev looks horrendous. If Zaitsev's confidence is impacting his play then it's captured in the stats. If Zaitsev hasn't learned the systems yet then it's hopeless that he ever will. As for player development, I thought Zaitsev had skills? So what does player development have to do with why both the stats and the eye test say he's bad?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1504 by Zardoz » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:11 pm

Hainsey sucks shit, Zaitsev is fucking useless, hopeless garbage, Polak is the worst defender in the NHL, Carrick is a lost cause, etc.

Surprised this team has any wins at all with D like that.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1505 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:20 pm

I actually think Hainsey is fine in a lower role. It's important to remember that he is playing some of the toughest quality of competition in the NHL. As a 4/5 he is fine.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1506 by Thomas Malthus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:31 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I actually think Hainsey is fine in a lower role. It's important to remember that he is playing some of toughest quality of competition in the NHL. As a 4/5 he is fine.


I concur.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1507 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:21 am

Zardoz wrote:Hainsey sucks shit, Zaitsev is fucking useless, hopeless garbage, Polak is the worst defender in the NHL, Carrick is a lost cause, etc.

Surprised this team has any wins at all with D like that.


I think you'll find that "Polak doesn't belong in the NHL".
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1508 by paulster » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:19 am

Curry Rage wrote:
Zardoz wrote:Hainsey sucks shit, Zaitsev is fucking useless, hopeless garbage, Polak is the worst defender in the NHL, Carrick is a lost cause, etc.

Surprised this team has any wins at all with D like that.


I think you'll find that "Polak doesn't belong in the NHL".


Winning teams all have defensemen who never make any mistakes. All other teams are perfect - when will you jobbers understand this‽
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1509 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:22 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:The greatest coach on the planet (which may or may not be Babs, but let's say it is) has a long track record of handing guys with limited skillsets large minutes. This is a blind spot of his. Additionally, who is Babs going to play over Zaitsev on the right hand side?

As AZ said, even if you don't want to look at the many different stats Zaitsev looks horrendous. If Zaitsev's confidence is impacting his play then it's captured in the stats. If Zaitsev hasn't learned the systems yet then it's hopeless that he ever will. As for player development, I thought Zaitsev had skills? So what does player development have to do with why both the stats and the eye test say he's bad?



It's his philosophy. Play hard and you'll be rewarded. Also, it's good cap management. Spreading out the talent with hard playing pluggers is needed if you don't want a bottom six that can't score.

I don't think he's blind to it. When Hyman went down, and when Komarov fucked up the onetimer, the next shift Patty was out there with Matthews. He knew he fucked up and tried to right it.

I think we'll see the blender come out in the playoffs when we need a goal.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1510 by Zardoz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:52 am

Doughty/Karlsson would be a great 5/6 on a cup contender, and they'd be mistake free with insulated minutes I bet.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1511 by vf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:15 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:Babcock continues playing him 20+ minutes a night. I'll trust the best coach on the planet. I'm not blindly ignoring anything, stats give you a snapshot of what's happened, but, does nothing for evaluating player confidence, for learning systems or player development. I'm not going to blindly ignore what the best coach on the planet is doing and put my faith in some garbage advanced stats based off of biased counting stats.

What is his alternative lol


Play Carrick more then 15 mins a night? Why is a guy we need to dump so bad playing as much or more then Gardiner or Reilly? Why is he second in EV/TOI? Why is he tied for second in shifts/g? Either Babcock is an idiot or he knows something about development.

Like you guys should go start a blog, it'd be super interesting. Nothing like PPP or that shit James Tanner puts out. You guys actually know more then the Leafs.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1512 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:35 am

Because his competition is Hainsey, Polak and Carrick. If Z was a lefty we are having a much different conversation. It's also important to note that Hainsey plays almost a minute more on the PK which is going to impact his ESTOI, and barely comes off of it which is going to artificially lower his sh/g relative to his total ice time. He also plays the toughest quality of competition on the team alongside Rielly which is pretty telling.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1513 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:05 pm

paulster wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:
Zardoz wrote:Hainsey sucks shit, Zaitsev is fucking useless, hopeless garbage, Polak is the worst defender in the NHL, Carrick is a lost cause, etc.

Surprised this team has any wins at all with D like that.


I think you'll find that "Polak doesn't belong in the NHL".


Winning teams all have defensemen who never make any mistakes. All other teams are perfect - when will you jobbers understand this‽


Do you honestly think I am picking on Z because he makes mistakes that the average defender makes?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1514 by stoney » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 pm

Does Zaitsev's injury line up with Gardiner's improvement? Off the top of my head it seems like the timing is not a coincidence
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1515 by MonkeyWrench » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:50 pm

Seems like every shift they have together they're playing hot potato with the puck.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1516 by MonkeyWrench » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm

First rental d trade in the books.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1517 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:33 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:Seems like every shift they have together they're playing hot potato with the puck.


Looked fine last night.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1518 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:42 pm

Apparently we offered a 5th for Luke Glendening and the Wings countered back with a 2nd. Negotiations continuing according to TSN.

He'd be an improvement on Moore but he's 28 with 3 more years at $1.8M cap hit and is still not a great player. I hope this doesn't happen.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1519 by Whit Dickman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:48 pm

Babcock is a Glendening fan. wonder what Dubas and the boys think
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1520 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:49 pm

Yeah, I see a lot of the stats types are shitting on him. Bad Corsis. Not one of the articles I've read mentions he starts about 2/3 of his shifts in his own zone, though. Would be nice to see them at least acknowledge context. Anyway, I've always liked his hustle and he's a bit of a cunt. Admittedly, he's not bringing much offense but he's a good PKer and he wins draws at a furious rate. He might pave the way for absorbing the loss of Komarov and/or Bozak for PK and defensive zone FOs. I'm not really bothered either way.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1521 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:55 pm

Though a 2nd seems like a lot.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1522 by clawfirst » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:56 pm

Im not gonna start questioning the shannaplan now. They have bought 5 more years of me just watching them do the thing
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1523 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:10 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Yeah, I see a lot of the stats types are shitting on him. Bad Corsis. Not one of the articles I've read mentions he starts about 2/3 of his shifts in his own zone, though. Would be nice to see them at least acknowledge context. Anyway, I've always liked his hustle and he's a bit of a cunt. Admittedly, he's not bringing much offense but he's a good PKer and he wins draws at a furious rate. He might pave the way for absorbing the loss of Komarov and/or Bozak for PK and defensive zone FOs. I'm not really bothered either way.


He faces decently tough competition too. He's never been an offensive guy and so I'm not super confident that his number would improve significantly while facing weaker competition or a more sheltered zone situation. Like I said, he's an upgrade on Moore but he's still not a great player. There are better potential 4Cs we could target out there.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1524 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:12 pm

Who do you have in mind?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1525 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:28 pm

Heh. Dellow's math says Z and Gards might be okay afterall.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1526 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:43 pm

stoney wrote:Does Zaitsev's injury line up with Gardiner's improvement? Off the top of my head it seems like the timing is not a coincidence


Essentially everyone is better away from Zaitsev other than Marincin in a small sample size. If we can add a legitimate top pairing RHD, it will be interesting to see how Z can perform in a reduced role. He is clearly not a top 3, but maybe he can be an effective 4/5?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1527 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:45 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:Apparently we offered a 5th for Luke Glendening and the Wings countered back with a 2nd. Negotiations continuing according to TSN.

He'd be an improvement on Moore but he's 28 with 3 more years at $1.8M cap hit and is still not a great player. I hope this doesn't happen.


Ugh... Glendening is not that good, and apparently he is a guy that Babcock loved to overplay in Detroit. Aaltonen has been on fire the last month, I don't know why they don't just give him an opportunity. It beats paying a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a mediocre 4th line center that is trash offensively and under contract for two more years.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1528 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
stoney wrote:Does Zaitsev's injury line up with Gardiner's improvement? Off the top of my head it seems like the timing is not a coincidence


Essentially everyone is better away from Zaitsev other than Marincin in a small sample size. If we can add a legitimate top pairing RHD, it will be interesting to see how Z can perform in a reduced role. He is clearly not a top 3, but maybe he can be an effective 4/5?


And yet, somehow, some way, he and Gards are waaaaaay on the plus side of the ledger 5v5. They compare very favourably to other 2nd pairs around the league. Gards must be a fucking superstar to drag a number 5 around and produce like that.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1529 by Zardoz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:58 pm

Willing to wait and see the price for him. A 2nd is obviously a lot though.
I'm also fairly trusting of this group. Babs is stubborn as hell, but he knows Glandenning pretty damn well, so if he sees a fit, go for it. He'll know the system and the coach, so he can hit the ground running. He's always been a thorn in the side when we've played Detroit, and IMO it take more than a few thorns to make a playoff rose. :danson:


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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1530 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:28 pm

Curry Rage wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
stoney wrote:Does Zaitsev's injury line up with Gardiner's improvement? Off the top of my head it seems like the timing is not a coincidence


Essentially everyone is better away from Zaitsev other than Marincin in a small sample size. If we can add a legitimate top pairing RHD, it will be interesting to see how Z can perform in a reduced role. He is clearly not a top 3, but maybe he can be an effective 4/5?


And yet, somehow, some way, he and Gards are waaaaaay on the plus side of the ledger 5v5. They compare very favourably to other 2nd pairs around the league. Gards must be a fucking superstar to drag a number 5 around and produce like that.


The Leafs defence as a whole is way on the plus side of the ledger at 5v5 (they are also at the bottom of xGA)

Image

What I would like to know is how do you know that Gardiner and Z are the second pair? In terms of TOI/G and ESTOI/G Jake and Z are the top pair. So if Z and Gards are the second pair, what is the criteria for judging pairs?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1531 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:33 pm

Wait! All that with a third pairing defender on our top pair, an over-the-hill relic on the 2nd pair and a barely NHL calibre guy on the third pair?

Praise Jebus.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1532 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:39 pm

When did folks start hating lists, do we need a goddamn chart for everything?

Anyways, if you folks are serious about the playdowns you'll pony up for defensive stalwart Tom Plékanec and the league's preeminent sniper Max Pacioretty.
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1533 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 pm

I was curious so I looked it up. The Gardiner and Z pairing have a +7 goal differential at 5v5 (32GF, 25GA). However, when Zaitsev is apart from Gardiner his goal differential is E (8GF, 8GA) whereas Gardiner has a +6 goal differential without Z (21GF, 15GA).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?season=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=TOR&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-09-13&td=2018-04-07&tgp=82&strict=incl&p1=8479458&p2=8474581&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1534 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:11 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Wait! All that with a third pairing defender on our top pair, an over-the-hill relic on the 2nd pair and a barely NHL calibre guy on the third pair?

Praise Jebus.


The Leafs have a very strong LS offensively (and Z can rip it when he gets into shooting position), and play a style that enables the Leafs to maximize offense from the back end. Dellows actually wrote a piece on this for The Athletic, the problem, as is the case with most of the team, is that we give up a shit load against as well.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1535 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:12 pm

edgar_dong wrote:When did folks start hating lists, do we need a goddamn chart for everything?

Anyways, if you folks are serious about the playdowns you'll pony up for defensive stalwart Tom Plékanec and the league's preeminent sniper Max Pacioretty.


Two 2nds, a 3rd, and Bracco for Tommy and Paulie.

Final offer.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1536 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:32 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I was curious so I looked it up. The Gardiner and Z pairing have a +7 goal differential at 5v5 (32GF, 25GA). However, when Zaitsev is apart from Gardiner his goal differential is E (8GF, 8GA) whereas Gardiner has a +6 goal differential without Z (21GF, 15GA).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?season=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=TOR&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-09-13&td=2018-04-07&tgp=82&strict=incl&p1=8479458&p2=8474581&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0


So?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1537 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Curry Rage wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I was curious so I looked it up. The Gardiner and Z pairing have a +7 goal differential at 5v5 (32GF, 25GA). However, when Zaitsev is apart from Gardiner his goal differential is E (8GF, 8GA) whereas Gardiner has a +6 goal differential without Z (21GF, 15GA).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?season=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=TOR&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-09-13&td=2018-04-07&tgp=82&strict=incl&p1=8479458&p2=8474581&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0


So?


I should be asking you that
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1538 by vf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:22 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Because his competition is Hainsey, Polak and Carrick. If Z was a lefty we are having a much different conversation. It's also important to note that Hainsey plays almost a minute more on the PK which is going to impact his ESTOI, and barely comes off of it which is going to artificially lower his sh/g relative to his total ice time. He also plays the toughest quality of competition on the team alongside Rielly which is pretty telling.


If Z was a centre it'd be a different conversation again.

The way you keep moving goal posts around it's hard for me to keep up with the argument.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1539 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:22 pm

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Because his competition is Hainsey, Polak and Carrick. If Z was a lefty we are having a much different conversation. It's also important to note that Hainsey plays almost a minute more on the PK which is going to impact his ESTOI, and barely comes off of it which is going to artificially lower his sh/g relative to his total ice time. He also plays the toughest quality of competition on the team alongside Rielly which is pretty telling.


If Z was a centre it'd be a different conversation again.

The way you keep moving goal posts around it's hard for me to keep up with the argument.


I haven't changed any goal posts, Z is competing against mediocre competition on the RS.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1540 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:24 pm

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1541 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:30 pm

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1542 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Lou Lam on Zaitsev:

“There's an old proverb about statistics: you collect them, you classify them, you analyze them, you interpret them, and then the most important thing is how you present them,” Lamoriello said. “There's a presentation of statistics that doesn't really read into how a player is used in a game, what his matchups are, how important he is in different situations. He's an extremely important player in our organization.”


I wish we had access to the numbers the Leafs are using.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1543 by WTF » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:22 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/965706340881530880


I saw that earlier and it really puts into perspective just how good that line has been since Mitch joined it. The game against the Pens aside, they've been a lot of fun to watch.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1544 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:23 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I was curious so I looked it up. The Gardiner and Z pairing have a +7 goal differential at 5v5 (32GF, 25GA). However, when Zaitsev is apart from Gardiner his goal differential is E (8GF, 8GA) whereas Gardiner has a +6 goal differential without Z (21GF, 15GA).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?season=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=TOR&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-09-13&td=2018-04-07&tgp=82&strict=incl&p1=8479458&p2=8474581&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0


So?


I should be asking you that

No, you should be providing the context that makes those numbers mean what you think they mean.

Who do they play with when not together? Why? Against whom? Score/game situstion/etc. But Lou already told you this.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1545 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:47 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/965368425207029760


Not shocked that the two kids who get the cushiest icetime have the best numbers.

A little shocked that people aren't investigating why PAIRS have such different numbers. Afterall, they're largely playing together and, generally, you aren't going to see two RD on the ice at the same time.

A little shocked that people still look at defense Corsis in isolation from the forward lines they play with.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1546 by LeafOfBread » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:08 am

It's been a struggle for Zaitsev since he returned from the first broken foot of his career.
“Yeah, I usually break hands,” he said rather matter-of-factly.
Zaitsev was on the shelf for nearly six weeks with the injury. He missed 17 games. Then he was back in almost no time at all. He skated three times on his own, practised twice with teammates and then played for the first time on Jan. 31 against the Islanders.
It seemed like a rush and probably was given that the Leafs were also without Morgan Rielly at the time with what was later revealed to be an elbow injury.
All that time off has made for some difficult catch-up for Zaitsev.
He's played the most 5-on-5 minutes of any Leaf in nine games back, during which his team has given up 11 goals while managing 12 at the other end. The Leafs have mustered only 45 per cent of the shot attempts when he's been out there and 45 per cent of the scoring chances.
A big chunk of that damage came in the 57-shot bonanza against Columbus on Wednesday. The Blue Jackets managed a wild 39 shot attempts — to just 15 for the Leafs — in the 19 minutes that Zaitsev was on the ice with five a side.
“It's always hard to get back during the season,” Zaitsev said.
Unlike all those broken hands, which might lead to some stickhandling troubles upon return, Zaitsev said a broken foot sapped conditioning. He was having a hard time catching back up to the speeds and rhythms of the game. He often appeared just a step too slow in his movements or decision-making against the Penguins.
“I'm feeling better every game,” he said a 20-minute outing in Pittsburgh. “Sometimes not good, sometimes good. But overall, getting better.”
Zaitsev pegged himself at about 90 per cent.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1547 by Whit Dickman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:25 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Thomas Malthus wrote:Apparently we offered a 5th for Luke Glendening and the Wings countered back with a 2nd. Negotiations continuing according to TSN.

He'd be an improvement on Moore but he's 28 with 3 more years at $1.8M cap hit and is still not a great player. I hope this doesn't happen.


Ugh... Glendening is not that good, and apparently he is a guy that Babcock loved to overplay in Detroit. Aaltonen has been on fire the last month, I don't know why they don't just give him an opportunity. It beats paying a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a mediocre 4th line center that is trash offensively and under contract for two more years.

I remember hearing this, but I looked at his icetime and he never averaged more than ~14.5 minutes per game. Perhaps that's overplaying?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1548 by Geo » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:10 pm



When you have the chance to trade assets to acquire an overrated, one-dimensional player made of glass, you have to take it.

I'd bring up Joffrey Lupul as a comparison, but frankly that's insulting to Lupul.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1549 by vf » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:26 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Lou Lam on Zaitsev:

“There's an old proverb about statistics: you collect them, you classify them, you analyze them, you interpret them, and then the most important thing is how you present them,” Lamoriello said. “There's a presentation of statistics that doesn't really read into how a player is used in a game, what his matchups are, how important he is in different situations. He's an extremely important player in our organization.”


I wish we had access to the numbers the Leafs are using.


Unpossible. You and Thommie know he's trash. This is LouLam making himself look less desperate to dump the boat anchor contract.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1550 by vf » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:34 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Thomas Malthus wrote:Apparently we offered a 5th for Luke Glendening and the Wings countered back with a 2nd. Negotiations continuing according to TSN.

He'd be an improvement on Moore but he's 28 with 3 more years at $1.8M cap hit and is still not a great player. I hope this doesn't happen.


Ugh... Glendening is not that good, and apparently he is a guy that Babcock loved to overplay in Detroit. Aaltonen has been on fire the last month, I don't know why they don't just give him an opportunity. It beats paying a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a mediocre 4th line center that is trash offensively and under contract for two more years.

I remember hearing this, but I looked at his icetime and he never averaged more than ~14.5 minutes per game. Perhaps that's overplaying?


Just more rumourmongering. By EV/toi Glendening never played more then 4th line mins, but, was the leader in pk/toi.

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