ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1551 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:05 pm

vf wrote:Just more rumourmongering. By EV/toi Glendening never played more then 4th line mins, but, was the leader in pk/toi.


Probably started by folks who just couldn't see why he wouldn't dress Pulkkinen or Jurco instead.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1552 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:18 pm

Down to 48 contracts and a few hundred thousand bucks off the books. Bye, Eric. We hardly knew ye.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1553 by clawfirst » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Lol
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1554 by clawfirst » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:19 pm

I forgot he was even alive
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1555 by Whit Dickman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:21 pm

We still had rights to Eric Fehr?!?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1556 by clawfirst » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:21 pm

Now lupul for an 8th..do it
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1557 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:We still had rights to Eric Fehr?!?


Word is that he was loaned to San Diego Somethingorothers as a favour by Lou because he has family in SoCal. Traded to SJ today. Lou taking care of an old vet.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1558 by vf » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:58 pm

Curry Rage wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:We still had rights to Eric Fehr?!?


Word is that he was loaned to San Diego Somethingorothers as a favour by Lou because he has family in SoCal. Traded to SJ today. Lou taking care of an old vet.


He had been playing with the San Diego Gulls. 34gp this season for them this season. Now he can go their division rivals the San Jose Barracudas. Their logo looks like the old Mighty Ducks logo fucked the Phoenix Coyote.

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1559 by vf » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:58 pm

Curry Rage wrote:
vf wrote:Just more rumourmongering. By EV/toi Glendening never played more then 4th line mins, but, was the leader in pk/toi.


Probably started by folks who just couldn't see why he wouldn't dress Pulkkinen or Jurco instead.


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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1560 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:09 pm

If I have a guy like Glendening on my team I don't want him playing more than 12 minutes a night total, and that's the max. Ideally more like 10 minutes.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1561 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:21 pm

He played about 10-11 minutes ES and about 3 minutes a night on the PK under Babs.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1562 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Story about Lou. I had a good chuckle (I'm not posting the whole thing so just click and go read the thread).

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1563 by WTF » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:Story about Lou. I had a good chuckle (I'm not posting the whole thing so just click and go read the thread).



They're lucky Lou didn't insist on the Cone of Silence.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1564 by vf » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:01 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:If I have a guy like Glendening on my team I don't want him playing more than 12 minutes a night total, and that's the max. Ideally more like 10 minutes.


susf. I really don't get what's gotten into you lately Thommie. These type of firm assessments are jeffler level of armchair coaching.

Out of the top 50 forwards by sh/toi only 2 average under 10 minutes a night. Only 4 average between 10-12mins of total ice time.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1565 by Dynrehab » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:15 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:If I have a guy like Glendening on my team I don't want him playing more than 12 minutes a night total, and that's the max. Ideally more like 10 minutes.


Actually, you want to be winning so handily that you want to give even TOI to all players. And sometimes, a4th line shift creates the opportunity for your top lines.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1566 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:25 pm

So Tampa in the only position to trade for EK? What would you trade for him?

Nylander/Marner
1st
We have 2nds
A first from JVR
Dermott
Liligren
Kappanen
Kadri even

What would it take?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1567 by paulster » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:36 pm

I’d rather not see several of my precious buds playing on the Sens and only get a dirty Swede out of it. NEXT!
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1568 by Honus Joglund » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:50 pm

vf wrote:Their logo looks like the old Mighty Ducks logo fucked the Phoenix Coyote.


It's even worse when you find out where it came from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barracuda_Networks
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1569 by WTF » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:02 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:
vf wrote:Their logo looks like the old Mighty Ducks logo fucked the Phoenix Coyote.


It's even worse when you find out where it came from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barracuda_Networks


I know the first thing I think of when I think about AHL teams is firewalls.

:wink:
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1570 by paulster » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:51 pm

If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1571 by LeafOfBread » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:53 pm

paulster wrote:If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.

What infuriates me about that is that if they had even a half decent goalie that year they make the playoffs easily. Fuck you Raycroft and your .894 sv%
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1572 by Whit Dickman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:23 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.

What infuriates me about that is that if they had even a half decent goalie that year they make the playoffs easily. Fuck you Raycroft and your .894 sv%



Only 2 more back-to-backs, so Ander could play 18 more games this season.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1573 by Curry Rage » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:47 am

LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.

What infuriates me about that is that if they had even a half decent goalie that year they make the playoffs easily. Fuck you Raycroft and your .894 sv%


Still mad?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1574 by stoney » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:39 am

Whit Dickman wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.

What infuriates me about that is that if they had even a half decent goalie that year they make the playoffs easily. Fuck you Raycroft and your .894 sv%



Only 2 more back-to-backs, so Ander could play 18 more games this season.


I am worried he is going to burn out personally.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1575 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:22 am

Moore and Kapanen play around a minute of PK time a game and both are under 12 minutes a night of ice time. Glendening would be taking on Moore's PK duties, there's no reason he'd jump over Brown, Hyman, and Komarov in terms of PK TOI. If you look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, and Boston, they aren't playing their fourth line a lot (even those who do PK) and also use mainly third liners and more talented players like Bergeron and Point to PK.

To me, the opportunity cost of playing your fourth line more is really, really fucking high.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1576 by Whit Dickman » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:43 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:Moore and Kapanen play around a minute of PK time a game and both are under 12 minutes a night of ice time. Glendening would be taking on Moore's PK duties, there's no reason he'd jump over Brown, Hyman, and Komarov in terms of PK TOI. If you look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, and Boston, they aren't playing their fourth line a lot (even those who do PK) and also use mainly third liners and more talented players like Bergeron and Point to PK.

To me, the opportunity cost of playing your fourth line more is really, really fucking high.


Babcock might have happened across something brilliant.

He basically has the opposite configuration at the former model of shutdown 3rd line: a 3rd line that's all offense and no defense. His line matching now revolves around finding good matchup for the Bozak line. He doesn't even have to worry about his 4th line being stuck on the ice.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1577 by LeafOfBread » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am


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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1578 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:47 am

:dealwithit_lou:
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1579 by Curry Rage » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:Moore and Kapanen play around a minute of PK time a game and both are under 12 minutes a night of ice time. Glendening would be taking on Moore's PK duties, there's no reason he'd jump over Brown, Hyman, and Komarov in terms of PK TOI.


I don't think that's a safe assumption. He's a natural C with a proven track record as a PKer for Babs. Babs would also use Glendening as a matchup guy with the express purpose of simply making good offensive players play against the wall in their own end. He made mincemeat out of Tyler Johnson in the POs a couple of years back.

If you look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, and Boston, they aren't playing their fourth line a lot


I really don't think imitation is a good way to build your system, but BOS has guys like Schaller, DeBrusk and Kuraly playing between 12 and 14 minutes a night.

BOS uses Bergeron on the PK because Bergeron is a great PKer. Who's our comparable Selke candidate? BOS is 2nd in PK% but have the luxury of Bergeron and Marchand who play about 1:55 each. After that, they roll out two 3rd/4th line pluggers (Schaller and Nash) for exactly the same amount of ice time. We use Hyman, Brown and Leo, who have all spent most of the year on the top 3 lines. We're 4th. I'm not sure flipping a few of those PK minutes to a 4th line guy is going to make that big a difference. In fact, it might just leave a couple of those guys fresher 5v5.

TBL have the 24th ranked PK% in the league. I couldn't really care less what they're doing with their PK. NSH are 13th. Again, not sure I care.


To me, the opportunity cost of playing your fourth line more is really, really fucking high.


Heh. The difference of a minute or so of ice time (which would mostly be on the PK if Babs' past usage of him held) for one guy on a team that scores the second most 5v5 goals in the league? I think you're overstating the case pretty heavily.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1580 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 am

Andersen has been better than I could ever have hoped he would be. I haven't been this confident in a goalie since Belfour.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1581 by vonbonds » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:43 am

UND’s finest!
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1582 by WTF » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:46 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/966154276262232065


:burkealoompa:
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1583 by LeafOfBread » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:15 pm

WTF wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/966154276262232065


:burkealoompa:

In fairness, Mike Smith is pretty good still. But he's no Freddy :dealwithit_lou:
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1584 by MonkeyWrench » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:36 pm



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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1585 by Dynrehab » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:55 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:If Andersen can get 9 more wins this season he can pass the great Andrew Raycroft for most in a season by a Leafs goalie.

What infuriates me about that is that if they had even a half decent goalie that year they make the playoffs easily. Fuck you Raycroft and your .894 sv%


The part that infuriates me is, what they gave up to get Raycroft, and chose Pogge over task and then what they gave up for Toskala too.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1586 by WTF » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:34 pm

The sad thing is, I still remember thinking during the WJHC all those years ago, "We can't possibly mess this up. We have both Rask and Pogge in our stable."
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1587 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:30 pm

Maybe I am being hyperbolic on Glendening. I recognize that I have weak spots that tend to place less value on guys whose stat profiles look like Glendening's and that tend to push back hard against having lots of faith in management/coaching. I still believe that increasing the ice time of the fourth line is not good. Losing one minute of ES ice time adds up, even over a short series. Additionally, having aggressive PKers who are a threat to score seems like an increasingly popular strategy among the best PK units in the league. Again, Glendening is an upgrade over Moore but I'm worried about Babs overplaying him and giving up useful assets for a marginal upgrade.

Apparently we're interested in McD?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1588 by clawfirst » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:08 pm

McD makes the most sense at a fair price.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1589 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:43 pm

clawfirst wrote:McD makes the most sense at a fair price.


I'm interested in him but I'm leery of what it'll cost to get him. I guess we'd have either him (apparently he has with team USA and a little bit with the Rangers) or Rielly play on the right side? McD would be such a huge upgrade on Hainsey and Zaitsev on the right side, even if his numbers do take a hit from switching over.

I had a long post in this thread about a potential McD trade a little bit ago. It seemed like more of a summer move to me just because of the left side logjam it would create and the massive restructuring of the blueline it would signal.

With so many left side pieces—Gardiner, Rielly, Dermott, and Borgman (assuming those pieces aren't moved in the deal)—adding McD would give the Leafs the opportunity to move move some pieces from the left side to the right (like a package based around Gardiner + for Trouba or Rielly for Trouba, for example) or move Gardiner for a Bozak replacement during the summer.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1590 by Dynrehab » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:53 pm

Trade Reilly? Are you mad?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1591 by MonkeyWrench » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:26 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Down to 48 contracts and a few hundred thousand bucks off the books. Bye, Eric. We hardly knew ye.


That move isn't all that big. Atleast for a team that can afford to bury that contract.
However the fact that the leafs found a way to deal that contract away opens up a spot.
Gives the leafs some breathing room if they decide to acquire a player with a pick or two.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1592 by Curry Rage » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:47 am

Thomas Malthus wrote: I still believe that increasing the ice time of the fourth line is not good. Losing one minute of ES ice time adds up, even over a short series.


Depends what that means. Increasing from what to what? Who's playing that minute? Looking at prior history - which is all we have to go on - the increase in the 4C's icetime with Glendening would basically be all SH. Though I'm pretty comfortable putting a line with Komarov and Kapanen on it out against anyone. That a minute a game adds up and makes a huge difference is one of those things people say but I've never seen substantial evidence of it. Maybe you have.

Additionally, having aggressive PKers who are a threat to score seems like an increasingly popular strategy among the best PK units in the league.


We have one of the best PK units in the league as it is. That strategy has come and gone for years and largely depends on personnel. Guys like Grabner and Madden come immediately to mind. Shit, they used to toss Gretzky out on the PK now and again to keep people honest. And why are we trusting other coaches but not ours?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1593 by vf » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:37 am

Why are we not trusting one of the best coaches on the planet? It's like we have Wilson flailing around behind the bench or Carlyle facepalming his way out of town.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1594 by Dynrehab » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:53 am

Babcock needs more rope.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1595 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:52 am

What if we move JvR to Nashville or St. Louis or something and take the return and flip it to Detroit for Nyquist? He's cheap for one more year, is more of a play driver than JvR which could boost a third line where none of Brown, Bozak or JvR are great transition players. Just an idea.

Also, nice article on the Athletic about the Leafs' PP struggles since January. It's not the Marner unit but the Matthews unit that's the issue. They are in a sh% dry spell but the author thinks this is due to Nylander and Matthews switching sides. They were recently switched back to their strong sides ans so perhaps their production will rebound.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1596 by paulster » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:46 pm

Dynrehab wrote:Babcock needs more rope.

#FreeBabcock
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Re: RE: Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1597 by Zardoz » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:32 pm

paulster wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:Babcock needs more rope.

#FreeBabcock
It is kind of amazing that we're probably going to break a franchise record for wins and points, but he's been questioned since day one this season, and if you say you trust his methods its "you're part of the Babcult!"
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1598 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:39 pm

I'm fine being part of that cult. I complain sometimes, but I also try to see the bigger picture. #pain
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Re: RE: Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1599 by Curry Rage » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:29 pm

Zardoz wrote:
paulster wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:Babcock needs more rope.

#FreeBabcock
It is kind of amazing that we're probably going to break a franchise record for wins and points, but he's been questioned since day one this season, and if you say you trust his methods its "you're part of the Babcult!"


And all that with the worst defense ever.
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Curry Rage
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1600 by Curry Rage » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:35 pm

EVAH.
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