Big What...?

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Re: Big What...?

Post #51 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:28 pm

Geo wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:When Bill signs,

Kap Matthews Bill
Hyman JT Marner
Marleau Kadri Brown
Who cares

How about:

Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Nylander
Johnsson* - Lindholm - Brown

*for lack of better options currently

That 1-2-3 punch of skill, speed, and possession.


I like it, but Kappanen is destined for great things and Willy is too good for the 3rd line. We interchange Leivo, Brown, Johnsson on the 3rd line. Leivo gets the extra pp time. Kadri, Marleau, and Brown would be the versatile line.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #52 by vf » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:42 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
I wasnt talking about an offer sheet, and I'm not really sure why you are.


It's almost like Nylander is an RFA so the Leafs have no impetus to match any hypotheticals of what other teams would give him if compensation wasn't a part of the equation. Which it is.


That is great, but it wasnt what we were discussing. If anything an offer sheet discredits your point because it opens Nylander up to choose a team to sign with rather than have one assigned to him by trade.


So we weren't discussing a Nylander contract? You move too fast for me.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #53 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:59 pm

Nope, the question I posed was why it was haircut or Edmonton/Montreal for Nylander. You are the only one shifting goal posts.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #54 by vf » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:36 pm

Because if he's not with the Leafs I don't give a fuck where he is.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #55 by vonbonds » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:07 am

clawfirst wrote:Congrats and condolences. I just keep it to the weekends now

Random thoughts by Jack Handy here. I’m on week 1 of doing this. I had 1 beer Monday at lunch so I guess I failed already but I’m done for the most part during the week (hopefully).

Any chance you bints want a package containing Damon Severson for Wee Willy?
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Re: Big What...?

Post #56 by Craig » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:41 am

Obviously nobody wants that, bonbons.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #57 by vonbonds » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:25 am

:why:

I’ll drown out my misery with a lot of beer tonight I guess
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Re: Big What...?

Post #58 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:14 pm

Think it's about time to shit or get off the pot.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #59 by clawfirst » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:17 pm

Only 7 weeks left until we trade him
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Re: Big What...?

Post #60 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:22 pm

Now is the time to maximize his value. It only goes downhill from here.

I'm not turning on Willy. I'll be happier than pig in shit if he signs on November 31st. Just my opinion Dubas has to gauge the situation, he doesn't want a trade request.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #61 by paulster » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:23 pm

Request denied.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #62 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:55 pm

You really want to go down that path with an asset as valuable as Nylander? Fuck that.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #63 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 pm

Its October 10th PT, chill.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #64 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:59 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Its October 10th PT, chill.


When is official panic day, I forget?
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Re: Big What...?

Post #65 by clawfirst » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:22 pm

Im gonna say its tomorrow. Cause fun
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Re: Big What...?

Post #66 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:54 pm

The Leafs will need to keep up the scoring pace and winng. That'll keep their leverage for a bit.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #67 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:18 am

Philthy Thrillz wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Its October 10th PT, chill.


When is official panic day, I forget?


December 1st.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #68 by Whit Dickman » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:31 am

We can't afford him at 8. Simple as that. Dubas made assurances to people about signing everyone, though.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #69 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:53 pm

I thought part of the decision to bring in Tavares was Dubas talking to the players and telling them that if they wanted this they would have to take a pay cut?
"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." - Ronald Coase
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Re: Big What...?

Post #70 by MonkeyWrench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:56 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:I thought part of the decision to bring in Tavares was Dubas talking to the players and telling them that if they wanted this they would have to take a pay cut?


Step 1 was get a top dog ufa to take slightly less than people thought. I think the first RFA haircut signing will have an exponential effect. Should be assumed at that point for players to be thinking of something "reasonable" rather than wanting to cash in.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #71 by MonkeyWrench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:59 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Its October 10th PT, chill.


When is official panic day, I forget?


December 1st.


Leafs are scoring like mad. Dubas is just sitting in his office waiting for the phone call.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #72 by stoney » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:14 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:I thought part of the decision to bring in Tavares was Dubas talking to the players and telling them that if they wanted this they would have to take a pay cut?


And then Nylander likely talked to his old man and things changed.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #73 by clawfirst » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:35 pm

Pfft. No one is taking a discount. We will pay for what we keep
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Re: Big What...?

Post #74 by Whit Dickman » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:16 pm

Yzerman has been getting discounts in TB. how come we can't have discounts. I want discounts too
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Re: Big What...?

Post #75 by Whit Dickman » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:24 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:
When is official panic day, I forget?


December 1st.


Leafs are scoring like mad. Dubas is just sitting in his office waiting for the phone call.


Every game gives Dubas more info about how this team fares without Nylander (and whether Kapanen, for example, can step it). So long as the team keeps winning, Dubas gains more from this impasse than Nylander.

Of course, contract obstinance might hurt Nylander's trade value.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #76 by vf » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:12 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:Yzerman has been getting discounts in TB. how come we can't have discounts. I want discounts too


Palat put up 50pts in his rookie season and signed for 3.33x3(scaled up to current cap that'd be 3.84x3). He's since struggled with some injuries, but remained dangerous and re-upped last year for 5.3x5 (scaled up would be 5.62). Kucherov took a bridge as well after back to back 60 point seasons 4.77x3(scales to 5.19).
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Re: Big What...?

Post #77 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:51 pm

Come on Willy be part of something mythic.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #78 by MonkeyWrench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:14 pm

I always raise an eyebrow when ppl say why dont the leafs just trade nylander for a dman? Nylanders haircut off his asking price would be around 7m. The dman that is received for nylander would HAVE to be either a young bluechipper with nhl experience, or a stable/stud one currently. That player could very well cost around 7m in the next few years. Its all about where you want your strengths to lay. And honestly, even though the leafs right side of D is a bit patchworky, the magic youre currently witnessing between marner/JT, is a similar magic Matthews/Nylander have had. Nylander and matthews have gone god mode in the past. Similar to jt/marner. (Marner/jt are much more consistent tho due to JT having experience and has perfected his craft). If it was me...id stick with what the leafs KNOW will work. Rather than taking a risk. Could very well end up being a Hall for Larson.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #79 by Whit Dickman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:41 am

I would 100% sign nylander for 7. At 8 I lean toward trade (assuming the offers are good... I would want something like Pesce and a 1st, which might be unrealistic).
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Re: Big What...?

Post #80 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am

I would want Slavin or Hamilton or fuck that. I like Pesce, buy I think Slavin has helped to drive some of his results.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #81 by Whit Dickman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:14 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I would want Slavin or Hamilton or fuck that. I like Pesce, buy I think Slavin has helped to drive some of his results.


Pesce would be a really good fit with Rielly, though. And there's an additional 1st.

Carolina would be definitely getting the best player in the deal, though.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #82 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:28 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I would want Slavin or Hamilton or fuck that. I like Pesce, buy I think Slavin has helped to drive some of his results.


Pesce would be a really good fit with Rielly, though. And there's an additional 1st.

Carolina would be definitely getting the best player in the deal, though.


I get the rationale, but I would be terrified of another Larsson-Hall situation developing with that trade. A good, but not great defender who is strong in his own end for a star level winger.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #83 by Honus Joglund » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:18 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I would want Slavin or Hamilton or fuck that. I like Pesce, buy I think Slavin has helped to drive some of his results.


Pesce would be a really good fit with Rielly, though. And there's an additional 1st.

Carolina would be definitely getting the best player in the deal, though.


I get the rationale, but I would be terrified of another Larsson-Hall situation developing with that trade. A good, but not great defender who is strong in his own end for a star level winger.


Hall/Larsson was the exact deal I was going to mention. What's crazy is that there are people on twitter actually pretending that Nylander straight up wouldn't be enough to get Pesce. Look at Hall and Larsson's PPG rates the two seasons prior to the trade, and Nylander and Pesce's the past two seasons:

Hall: 0.76
Nylander: 0.75

Larsson: 0.29
Pesce: 0.27

People were roasting Chiarelli from the moment the trade was announced, and they're going to keep roasting him for the next thirty years it was such a bad trade. Nobody else is going to make the same career defining mistake that Chiarelli made.

If there's a Nylander/Pesce deal to be done, the Leafs have to be getting a substantial addition.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #84 by Whit Dickman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:36 pm

Yes, need an addition.

There's an important difference between the situations, though: Chiarelli didn't have an imperative to trade Hall. For us, Nylander is probably our 4th best forward (and Kadri is arguably more important). Pesce would be on our top pairing (although he's probably behind Gardiner on the depth chart).

Another possibility is Tanev and a 1st from Vancouver. Tanev brings more risk, but the 1st could be high. Vancouver probably wouldn't do it though.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #85 by clawfirst » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:29 pm

Nah. We trade nylander for picks and prospects. Then at the deadline flip some stuff for ufas. Chicago model. Bye bye ladd buff and steeg. Thats how we have to do this and stay cap compliant after the tavares signing.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #86 by Philthy Thrillz » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:33 pm

:rudy:
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Re: Big What...?

Post #87 by clawfirst » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:37 pm

We are gonna need an expensive defenseman to cup. Not a tanev
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Re: Big What...?

Post #88 by Philthy Thrillz » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:39 pm

Sign Nylander, add a Dman at tdd. All in now.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #89 by clawfirst » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:40 pm

Sign marner and mathews first. Then offer nylander whats left. Then trade him
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Re: Big What...?

Post #90 by Craig » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:
Pesce would be a really good fit with Rielly, though. And there's an additional 1st.

Carolina would be definitely getting the best player in the deal, though.


I get the rationale, but I would be terrified of another Larsson-Hall situation developing with that trade. A good, but not great defender who is strong in his own end for a star level winger.


Hall/Larsson was the exact deal I was going to mention. What's crazy is that there are people on twitter actually pretending that Nylander straight up wouldn't be enough to get Pesce. Look at Hall and Larsson's PPG rates the two seasons prior to the trade, and Nylander and Pesce's the past two seasons:

Hall: 0.76
Nylander: 0.75

Larsson: 0.29
Pesce: 0.27

People were roasting Chiarelli from the moment the trade was announced, and they're going to keep roasting him for the next thirty years it was such a bad trade. Nobody else is going to make the same career defining mistake that Chiarelli made.

If there's a Nylander/Pesce deal to be done, the Leafs have to be getting a substantial addition.


Not all 0.75 ppg players turn into MVPs, nor do all 0.3 PPG D's turn into total shit. Stat comparisons like that don't hold much value of you're including hindsight in the equation. If anything it proves their value is closer to even, because there's a precedent.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #91 by Boring Choice #2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Larsson is not a shitty defenceman, and was exactly what the Oilers needed - - a solid defensive defenceman to help the team figure out their shitty play. It is not his fault that the rest of the team can't play a lick of defence.

They probably shouldn't have given up Hall, but defencemen are more valuable than wingers, and they were desperate to improve their defence and make the playoffs for the first time in a long time.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #92 by WTF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:26 pm

Craig wrote:
Honus Joglund wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
I get the rationale, but I would be terrified of another Larsson-Hall situation developing with that trade. A good, but not great defender who is strong in his own end for a star level winger.


Hall/Larsson was the exact deal I was going to mention. What's crazy is that there are people on twitter actually pretending that Nylander straight up wouldn't be enough to get Pesce. Look at Hall and Larsson's PPG rates the two seasons prior to the trade, and Nylander and Pesce's the past two seasons:

Hall: 0.76
Nylander: 0.75

Larsson: 0.29
Pesce: 0.27

People were roasting Chiarelli from the moment the trade was announced, and they're going to keep roasting him for the next thirty years it was such a bad trade. Nobody else is going to make the same career defining mistake that Chiarelli made.

If there's a Nylander/Pesce deal to be done, the Leafs have to be getting a substantial addition.


Not all 0.75 ppg players turn into MVPs, nor do all 0.3 PPG D's turn into total shit. Stat comparisons like that don't hold much value of you're including hindsight in the equation. If anything it proves their value is closer to even, because there's a precedent.


Using a widely-panned trade of a star-calibre forward for a mid-calibre defenceman as precedence makes as much sense as using a trade of a younger star defenceman for an older "two way" defenceman with significantly more mileage on his body as precedence.

:trump:
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Re: Big What...?

Post #93 by WTF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:Larsson is not a shitty defenceman, and was exactly what the Oilers needed - - a solid defensive defenceman to help the team figure out their shitty play. It is not his fault that the rest of the team can't play a lick of defence.

They probably shouldn't have given up Hall, but defencemen are more valuable than wingers, and they were desperate to improve their defence and make the playoffs for the first time in a long time.


Great, can we get Patrick Kane for Martin Marincin?

:nucks:
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Re: Big What...?

Post #94 by Craig » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:44 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:Larsson is not a shitty defenceman, and was exactly what the Oilers needed - - a solid defensive defenceman to help the team figure out their shitty play. It is not his fault that the rest of the team can't play a lick of defence.

They probably shouldn't have given up Hall, but defencemen are more valuable than wingers, and they were desperate to improve their defence and make the playoffs for the first time in a long time.


Nah, he stinks.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #95 by WTF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:39 pm

Of course, trading a promising young defenceman for a winger you try to play as a centre doesn't necessarily work either. I'm sure Tampa's happy though.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #96 by Philthy Thrillz » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:35 am

clawfirst wrote:Sign marner and mathews first. Then offer nylander whats left. Then trade him



Next summer after the run.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #97 by AGENT ZERO » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:17 pm

The only hypothetical trade that I've heard that makes any sense thus far is Willy to Colorado for Ottawa's 1st. It hurts this year, but enables the Leafs to resign Gardiner, and that pick will be at worst top 6 which allows the Leafs to draft a high end prospect who will be cost controlled for at least 3 years. I would still rather not do it, but it's alot bettee than the alternatives that have been thrown around.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #98 by WTF » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:40 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:The only hypothetical trade that I've heard that makes any sense thus far is Willy to Colorado for Ottawa's 1st. It hurts this year, but enables the Leafs to resign Gardiner, and that pick will be at worst top 6 which allows the Leafs to draft a high end prospect who will be cost controlled for at least 3 years. I would still rather not do it, but it's alot bettee than the alternatives that have been thrown around.


AZ, if that happens and we somehow land Hughes, the Sens fans are going to lynch Melnyk and Dorion.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #99 by Craig » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:04 pm

No way are the Avs doing that. They know that Hughes exists.
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Re: Big What...?

Post #100 by clawfirst » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Yeah thats stupid

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