Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4051 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:56 pm

Jeremy Lin would also be ideal.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4052 by LeafOfBread » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:14 pm

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4053 by Vector » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Down to 10...something's gotta give.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4054 by Vector » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:29 pm

Wes Matthews signs with the Pacers.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4055 by LeafOfBread » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:47 pm

Vector wrote:Wes Matthews signs with the Pacers.

Disappointing. Hopefully we can get Ellington
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4056 by vf » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:31 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:Going to miss JV, but it's a good move. They cleared a ton of salary and Gasol still has a year left so if they go full scorched Earth this summer he can recoup some assets.


I hope it's a good move. Gasol needs to come in re-invigorated and playing closer to he was a couple of years ago to really be any better then JV.

Monroe dumped with a 2nd to Brooklyn.

Malachi Richardson dumped with a 2nd to 76ers.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4057 by vf » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
That trade would massively benefit this team, and is only possible because of Conley's contract. Given how terrible Lowry has been I would do it without hesitation, it gives the Raptors a real chance to come out of the East.


Conley scores more then Lowry and does everything else worse (much higher usage rate and 6pts more a night). Given how terrible Lowry has been he's still out rebounding him, putting up more assists while playing far better defense and he's the emotional leader on this club.

Then flip Valanciunas for Gasol so that the club can shove him or Ibaka into the backup 5 role. And then give Conley 66M the next two seasons and Gasol 25M next year.

At the trade deadline.


In what universe is Kyle Lowry a better defensive player than Mike Conley? Additionally, it is not just 6pts, it is more efficient and diverse scoring and someone who consistently performs in the playoffs and can be a second option on this ball club. It doesn't do much for the team long term, but I don't care about long term because this whole thing is going to shit in the summer regardless. The goal should be to capitalize on the best team in franchise history and try to win it all this year.



Lowry generates more steals, charges drawn, deflections, blocks and grabs more rebounds I guess is what misled me.

And for a consistent playoff performer his numbers aren't much different then Lowry who has that one season in HOU where he was coming off the bench and still a shithead dragging all his numbers down.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4058 by J'accuse » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:04 pm

I would have liked Gasol three years ago.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4059 by Craig » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Why they burning seconds like that? I know the second round of the NBA draft is pretty weak, but it's not like those were huge contracts to unload. Plus they need bodies anyway.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4060 by J'accuse » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:28 am

It's for tax purposes according to Ujiri's presser. They need the money for some reason. I will say, I'm glad we held onto Pascal. My dude is a stud.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4061 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 am

vf wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:Going to miss JV, but it's a good move. They cleared a ton of salary and Gasol still has a year left so if they go full scorched Earth this summer he can recoup some assets.


I hope it's a good move. Gasol needs to come in re-invigorated and playing closer to he was a couple of years ago to really be any better then JV.

Monroe dumped with a 2nd to Brooklyn.

Malachi Richardson dumped with a 2nd to 76ers.


Gasol doesn't need to change anything to improve this team over JV. Don't be one of those guys that overrates JV's numbers because of his usage and assumes that they will grow proportionately to minutes played. There is a reason neither Casey nor Nurse utilized JV in crunch time or against the oppositions best rotations. He is a glorified bench big that is useless defensively when the opposition goes small and attacks him on the switch.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4062 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:02 am

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
Conley scores more then Lowry and does everything else worse (much higher usage rate and 6pts more a night). Given how terrible Lowry has been he's still out rebounding him, putting up more assists while playing far better defense and he's the emotional leader on this club.

Then flip Valanciunas for Gasol so that the club can shove him or Ibaka into the backup 5 role. And then give Conley 66M the next two seasons and Gasol 25M next year.

At the trade deadline.


In what universe is Kyle Lowry a better defensive player than Mike Conley? Additionally, it is not just 6pts, it is more efficient and diverse scoring and someone who consistently performs in the playoffs and can be a second option on this ball club. It doesn't do much for the team long term, but I don't care about long term because this whole thing is going to shit in the summer regardless. The goal should be to capitalize on the best team in franchise history and try to win it all this year.



Lowry generates more steals, charges drawn, deflections, blocks and grabs more rebounds I guess is what misled me.

And for a consistent playoff performer his numbers aren't much different then Lowry who has that one season in HOU where he was coming off the bench and still a shithead dragging all his numbers down.


Their advanced numbers on defense are nearly identical (defensive win shares and defensive rating per 100 possessions). Lowry has a slight edge in defensive plus minus, but that is negated by a worst overall plus minus. So as it turns out we are both wrong, they are close to a wash defensively.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4063 by vf » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:53 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
In what universe is Kyle Lowry a better defensive player than Mike Conley? Additionally, it is not just 6pts, it is more efficient and diverse scoring and someone who consistently performs in the playoffs and can be a second option on this ball club. It doesn't do much for the team long term, but I don't care about long term because this whole thing is going to shit in the summer regardless. The goal should be to capitalize on the best team in franchise history and try to win it all this year.



Lowry generates more steals, charges drawn, deflections, blocks and grabs more rebounds I guess is what misled me.

And for a consistent playoff performer his numbers aren't much different then Lowry who has that one season in HOU where he was coming off the bench and still a shithead dragging all his numbers down.


Their advanced numbers on defense are nearly identical (defensive win shares and defensive rating per 100 possessions). Lowry has a slight edge in defensive plus minus, but that is negated by a worst overall plus minus. So as it turns out we are both wrong, they are close to a wash defensively.


I don't know enough about the win shares and ratings numbers to know how useful they are or what context they provide.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4064 by vf » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:00 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:Going to miss JV, but it's a good move. They cleared a ton of salary and Gasol still has a year left so if they go full scorched Earth this summer he can recoup some assets.


I hope it's a good move. Gasol needs to come in re-invigorated and playing closer to he was a couple of years ago to really be any better then JV.

Monroe dumped with a 2nd to Brooklyn.

Malachi Richardson dumped with a 2nd to 76ers.


Gasol doesn't need to change anything to improve this team over JV. Don't be one of those guys that overrates JV's numbers because of his usage and assumes that they will grow proportionately to minutes played. There is a reason neither Casey nor Nurse utilized JV in crunch time or against the oppositions best rotations. He is a glorified bench big that is useless defensively when the opposition goes small and attacks him on the switch.


JV always had his limitations, in the right deployment he could really succeed, in the wrong o e he could get torched. If you're a fan of WinShares it has Gasol as being about the same as Ibaka. That's not fantastic if you're going to spend 50M at one position. Like I said, I'm hoping he comes in here hungry now that he's got a real shot at going deep in the playoffs and plays his ass off.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4065 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:58 pm

In terms of overall value I agree with you, but this is a one year move to try and push us over the top in a stacked East. It may not look great in terms of total value, but it helps the team in an area they are extremely weak, scoring late in games. Gasol has made big shots over his career late in games, and can command pressure away from Lowry and Kawhi as well as distribute the ball.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4066 by LeafOfBread » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:04 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
Vector wrote:Wes Matthews signs with the Pacers.

Disappointing. Hopefully we can get Ellington

Fucking hell, looks like he's likely going to Detroit. These guys want more minutes to get better potential deals, guess I can't blame them.

AZ what do you think about Marqueef?
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4067 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:30 pm

Mirotic this year:
0.5 VORP, -1.7 DBPM

Gasol this year:
2.3 VORP, 3.2 DBPM
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4068 by vf » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Raps purportedly got their 3 and No D wing back on the roster. This time as Ben McElmore.

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4069 by J'accuse » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:20 pm

Yuck
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4070 by vf » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:12 am

He's the CJ replacement. He'll never see time in the playoffs anyways.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4071 by J'accuse » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:19 pm

It's too bad Ellington and Matthews went elsewhere. The Raptors aren't an attractive buyout market. Apparently the McLemore deal fell through. They're not allowed to sign guys to 10 day contracts if they don't have 12 guaranteed contracts on the books.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4072 by vf » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:41 pm

What? Those guys went places because of playing time. Both are playing for their next contracts. Marc Gasol waived his trade kicker to come here.

Not too concerned about the 10 Day contracts. They extended Boucher so converting Loyd gets them to 12.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4073 by vf » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:52 pm

And they signed Malcolm Miller. 12 player roster complete.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4074 by J'accuse » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:50 pm

vf wrote:Those guys went places because of playing time.


Hence why the Raptors aren't an attractive market to come to.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4075 by vf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:34 pm

You can't help yourself can you?
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4076 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:40 pm

Raps about to sign Lin.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4077 by J'accuse » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

vf wrote:You can't help yourself can you?


You're a moron. If there's no playing time, Toronto isn't attractive, that's all I was saying, moron.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4078 by vf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:03 pm

Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:
vf wrote:You can't help yourself can you?


You're a moron. If there's no playing time, Toronto isn't attractive, that's all I was saying, moron.


That would mean most playoff teams aren't attractive. Players sign for different reasons. Players trying to earn the next paycheque will find different teams attractive then the ones wanting to win. Be better.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4079 by Vector » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Lin! He’s been very good this. He’ll, he’s very good when healthy.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4080 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Lin is one of the few players that I was really hoping would be available. He gives us depth at the PG spot and can hit threes and pass which allows Nurse to play Lowry off the ball more. If the Raptors can add Markieff Morris and a third C like Gortat that will round out the lineup nicely.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4081 by J'accuse » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm

I want Morris and Kanter
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4082 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:22 pm

vf wrote:
Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:
vf wrote:You can't help yourself can you?


You're a moron. If there's no playing time, Toronto isn't attractive, that's all I was saying, moron.


That would mean most playoff teams aren't attractive. Players sign for different reasons. Players trying to earn the next paycheque will find different teams attractive then the ones wanting to win. Be better.


Df pretty clearly said that the Raptors are not an attractive "buyout" market. He is still wrong, but you two are saying the same thing.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4083 by mcphee » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:27 pm

vf wrote:
Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:
vf wrote:You can't help yourself can you?


You're a moron. If there's no playing time, Toronto isn't attractive, that's all I was saying, moron.


That would mean most playoff teams aren't attractive. Players sign for different reasons. Players trying to earn the next paycheque will find different teams attractive then the ones wanting to win. Be better.

I think we're ignoring the larger issue here as to whether or not you are, in fact, a moron. As you can imagine, I am somewhat of an authority on morons, of course due to lifetime exposure on many levels. I may be slipping as I've never even thought you a dullard, but if it is proven that you are indeed a moron, this should not be ignored.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4084 by Vector » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Lin is one of the few players that I was really hoping would be available. He gives us depth at the PG spot and can hit threes and pass which allows Nurse to play Lowry off the ball more. If the Raptors can add Markieff Morris and a third C like Gortat that will round out the lineup nicely.



Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:I want Morris and Kanter


Morris would be very good. Kanter is unplayable defensively but I do like his offensive game quite a bit. Gortat offers less on offense but isn’t a complete black hole . Would still take a chance on one of them as the third centre.

Lin, Morris, and Kanter/Gortat would be a very good buyout haul.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4085 by J'accuse » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:38 pm

I like EK because of his offensive rebounding prowess. Makes bricking threes a little easier lol
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4086 by vf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:35 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:
You're a moron. If there's no playing time, Toronto isn't attractive, that's all I was saying, moron.


That would mean most playoff teams aren't attractive. Players sign for different reasons. Players trying to earn the next paycheque will find different teams attractive then the ones wanting to win. Be better.


Df pretty clearly said that the Raptors are not an attractive "buyout" market. He is still wrong, but you two are saying the same thing.


He did and we're not. As my quoted post says, players sign for different reasons. Not signing Ellington or Matthews does not mean anything about Toronto not being an attractive buyout market. Those guys signed for playing time to try and parlay that into their next contract. Most playoff teams wouldn't be able to give them nearly as much time on the court, nor would Indiana if Oladipo didn't blow up his leg.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4087 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:44 pm

Lin pickup was good timing, FVV out 3 weeks
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4088 by vf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:45 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:Lin pickup was good timing, FVV out 3 weeks


Yep. He's a solid get.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4089 by J'accuse » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:22 pm

Won't be eligible until Wednesday, but, I'm excited.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4090 by Craig » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:59 pm

Good, I'm going on Wednesday. Now go get Vince Carter too for some reason.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4091 by J'accuse » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:12 pm

Please stay away from Brooklyn in round one.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4092 by J'accuse » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 am

Raps in the running for Markieff. It's between TOR, HOU and LAL for right now. Maybe others will emerge. He's repped by Rich Paul and I guess LAL is where he ends up. But would be saweet if it were here.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4093 by J'accuse » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:22 pm

Ben McLenomore. Deal's off the table.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4094 by LeafOfBread » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:35 am

JV 23 pts 10 boards in 21 minutes in his Memphis debut
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4095 by vf » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:20 am

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4096 by vf » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:21 am

LeafOfBread wrote:JV 23 pts 10 boards in 21 minutes in his Memphis debut



I almost would of preferred moving Ibaka instead of JV. JV worked with the bench better then Ibaka does and I'm hoping Gasol starts getting more time on the court.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4097 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:32 am

JV is useless against: MIL, BOS, and whoever we may face in the West. The only team JV would have helped us against in the playoffs (outside of the first round) is PHI, but even then Gasol has better numbers against Embiid. Ibaka's defensive versatility, shot blocking and switchability is going to be more useful to the Raptors.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4098 by J'accuse » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:50 am

The four teams Porzingis had on his wish list of trade destinations were the Nets, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat and Toronto Raptors, according to two people with knowledge of the list who were not authorized to discuss it publicly. The Knicks, of course, traded Porzingis to the Mavericks.

Well, maybe some day.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4099 by vf » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:18 pm

Porzingis has MVP talent, but his injury history doesn't make it a slam dunk either.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4100 by Vector » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:28 pm

This is a case where it’s a good thing to wait until he hits free agency. Hes basically hasn’t played in two seasons.

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