Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Featuring the belief that adding Joe Thornton and Jason Spezza will help a team that folds in the playoffs
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #851 by clawfirst » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:44 pm

Sigh*
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #852 by paulster » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:48 pm

Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #853 by Thomas Malthus » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:01 pm

I mean, dude fought Naz not that long ago. It's not like he's incapable of getting it up.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #854 by AZ » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:
AZ wrote:
Honus Joglund wrote:Two of 12 forwards spots will be occupied by PP specialists on a team that doesn't even use it's second PP unit at all.

Image


He isn't a pp specialist, and you of all people should be happy we added size.


We'll have to agree to disagree about the PP specialist thing. San Jose was the third worst team in the league and he was only playing third line minutes for them. He averaged less TOI than Marleau, and it was obvious how much he had left in the tank when he went back to SJ.

The size is nice, but he's still Joe Thornton. The nasty edge he had early on in Boston is long gone at this point. He's always done his best work on the half wall. He's not going to plant himself in front of the net like Simmonds will.


Even if you think Thornton is a 4th line scrub, how can you possibly view his addition at league minimum as a negative?
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #855 by Honus Joglund » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:09 pm

The fact that Thornton is famous for laying into his teammates is great. We need somebody to tell Nylander that's he's being a pussy. It's just weird to sign him when you already have Jason Spezza. They're using up two rosters spots on the same type of niche player when they don't have enough muscle, or energy, or PKers, or outright nastiness.

This is Kyle Dubas' main failing as a GM. He has a long line of these "value" signings (Thornton, Spezza, Vesey, Ennis), but he fails to see the bigger picture. There is a laundry list of dirty jobs that every Stanley Cup team needs to get done. This team is woefully one-dimensional, and all of these value guys only add to that single dimension, and worse yet, their presence in the lineup stands in the way of getting somebody else in who can do those jobs.

EDIT:

AZ wrote:Even if you think Thornton is a 4th line scrub, how can you possibly view his addition at league minimum as a negative?


The second paragraph is why.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #856 by LeafOfBread » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:
AZ wrote:
Honus Joglund wrote:Two of 12 forwards spots will be occupied by PP specialists on a team that doesn't even use it's second PP unit at all.

Image


He isn't a pp specialist, and you of all people should be happy we added size.


We'll have to agree to disagree about the PP specialist thing. San Jose was the third worst team in the league and he was only playing third line minutes for them. He averaged less TOI than Marleau, and it was obvious how much he had left in the tank when he went back to SJ.

The size is nice, but he's still Joe Thornton. The nasty edge he had early on in Boston is long gone at this point. He's always done his best work on the half wall. He's not going to plant himself in front of the net like Simmonds will.

It's not like Jumbo is some pussy. He's still a behemoth of a man with old man strength, and he won't give up the puck like a pussy either.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #857 by stoney » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:28 pm

He was drafted the same year Matthews was born.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #858 by chicpea » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:12 pm

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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #859 by Dynrehab » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 pm

JUMBO!!!!!

I hope they give him #24 so I can pull out my Scott Thornton jersey.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #860 by Whit Dickman » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:48 am

My guess is Dubas will try to add muscle at the deadline
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #861 by Curry Rage » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:13 am

paulster wrote:Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.


Isn’t that what we’re paying them top dollar for?

The franchise is now running a millionaire child minding operation, and this is a success?
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #862 by Whit Dickman » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:43 am

Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.


Isn’t that what we’re paying them top dollar for?

The franchise is now running a millionaire child minding operation, and this is a success?

The hope is that they sort it out. They're all competitive guys, my guess is the lustre is wearing off and losing is starting to gnaw at them a bit. And having a 42 year old vet with 0 cups on the team despite being one of the top in the game can't hurt.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #863 by paulster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:16 am

Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.


Isn’t that what we’re paying them top dollar for?

The franchise is now running a millionaire child minding operation, and this is a success?


Fucked if I know. The whole building a team with the exact kind of players you want thing is probably a lot harder than you make it out to be.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #864 by Thomas Malthus » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 am

paulster wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.


Isn’t that what we’re paying them top dollar for?

The franchise is now running a millionaire child minding operation, and this is a success?


Fucked if I know. The whole building a team with the exact kind of players you want thing is probably a lot harder than you make it out to be.


What are you talking about? If I can trade Dermott and Kapanen for Tkachuk in NHL20 why can't Dubas?
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #865 by Curry Rage » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:35 am

paulster wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Who cares where Thornton plays. $700k to swing his big dick around the dressing room and whip some toughness and emotion into our listless fuck collection of all stars is a bargain in my books.


Isn’t that what we’re paying them top dollar for?

The franchise is now running a millionaire child minding operation, and this is a success?


Fucked if I know. The whole building a team with the exact kind of players you want thing is probably a lot harder than you make it out to be.


Not sure what Marner and the rest of the pubescent millionaires playing like it matters has to do with that but you ride that smartypants pony, Paulie.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #866 by paulster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Okay. Keep bitching about the team online, it seems to be working.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #867 by mooseOAK » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:12 pm

Both Barrie and Ceci took pay cuts on the open market.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #868 by stoney » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:45 pm

mooseOAK wrote:Both Barrie and Ceci took pay cuts on the open market.


But 40 year olds are dying to play at home for a discount.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #869 by Curry Rage » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:28 am

paulster wrote:Okay. Keep bitching about the team online, it seems to be working.


Like you popping out from under your rug now and again to take any minor slight on the team personally and tell us what to do?
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #870 by Whit Dickman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:25 pm

Spezza offered Thornton #19 out of respect (Joe said izokay) and you chodes are on here arguing with each other
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #871 by Whit Dickman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:15 pm

hey guys any guesses as to how many hall of famers are presently on the club? particularly when we win 3 cups in a row here

thornton
spezza
tavares
matthews
marner?
rielly?
nylander??
andersen??
kerfoot???!1
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #872 by mooseOAK » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:43 pm

Thornton would never come to Toronto when there would be pressure on him to produce which is why he stayed in San Jose. When all that is expected is to be a fourth liner, sure!
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #873 by paulster » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:03 pm

Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Okay. Keep bitching about the team online, it seems to be working.


Like you popping out from under your rug now and again to take any minor slight on the team personally and tell us what to do?


Yes, exactly!
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #874 by Whit Dickman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:06 pm

mooseOAK wrote:Thornton would never come to Toronto when there would be pressure on him to produce which is why he stayed in San Jose. When all that is expected is to be a fourth liner, sure!

smart man
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #875 by paulster » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 pm

He also just signed for league minimum, so even Steven.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #876 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:45 pm

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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #877 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:46 pm

Given that most mediators just split the difference it seems likely the Leafs will get Mikheyev at 1 year at 1.350M. In a perfect world it's 2 years.

Edit: Because Mikehyev elected for arb the Leafs get to pick the term, so it will be 2 years.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #878 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:49 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Given that most mediators just split the difference it seems likely the Leafs will get Mikheyev at 1 year at 1.350M. In a perfect world it's 2 years.


In players elected arbitration, doesn't the team pick the term?

EDIT: AZ with the fucking ninja edit.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #879 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:08 pm

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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #880 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:48 pm

"Joseph Thornton is one-on-one against Yoél Edmundson..." :great_sieve_lolongo:


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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #881 by WTF » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:39 pm

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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #882 by Curry Rage » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:51 am

paulster wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:
paulster wrote:Okay. Keep bitching about the team online, it seems to be working.


Like you popping out from under your rug now and again to take any minor slight on the team personally and tell us what to do?


Yes, exactly!


Well, then a hockey discussion forum is the place for you!
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #883 by MP » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:Given that most mediators just split the difference it seems likely the Leafs will get Mikheyev at 1 year at 1.350M. In a perfect world it's 2 years.

Edit: Because Mikehyev elected for arb the Leafs get to pick the term, so it will be 2 years.

Isn't the middle $1.85M?
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #884 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:54 am

Now that this hockey team is more or less set, I have to say that I like what Kyle Dubas has accomplished this off-season. We all know what the Leafs problems were last year, and that they needed to address the following to have any chance of competing with Boston and TB:

1) Upgrade the defense
2) Diversify the roster with more: size, competitiveness, grit and two way play
3) Improve the depth at all three positions
4) Fix the goaltending

With the exception of (4) which was arguably a function of the first three problems the Leafs have addressed all of their major concerns entering this off-season, and they have done so without touching the core or sacrificing a first round pick or top prospect. The Defense on paper is the best the Leafs have had since the lockout and the roster on paper is bigger than it has been since the Burke years. This roster won't be confused for the broad street bullies, but most of the players added will at least engage or mix in a handwash every now and again which was something the team just didn't do a year ago. Admittedly, the two way aspect is tough to judge until we see the on ice results, but I'm optimistic that the improved defense and added experience on the roster will promote improvements in this area as well.

The depth speaks for itself, the Leafs have options at every single position that extend beyond the 20 man active roster.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Thornton - Simmonds
Vesey - Spezza - Barabanov
Robertson - Boyd - Engvall
Petan - Malgin - Anderson

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Lehtonen - Dermott
Sandin - Bogosian
Liljegren - Marincin

Andersen
Campbell
Dell

Every single player on this list has NHL games under their belt save Barabanov and Lehtonen. Ultimately how well this team does will fall on the top end guys, but there is no question that the Leafs are better prepared to combat injuries than they were a season ago when Marincin was the 7D and Hutchison the backup goalie.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #885 by LeafOfBread » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:38 pm



Awesome deal. Really happy with this
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #886 by AZ » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:25 pm

Apparently he took a slight payout to help the Leafs
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #887 by Curry Rage » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:31 pm

Good term and dough. Hard to believe he’ll only be paid 400K more than Engvall given the gap in their respective ceilings. Covid or not, that’s a good price.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #888 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:06 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Good term and dough. Hard to believe he’ll only be paid 400K more than Engvall given the gap in their respective ceilings. Covid or not, that’s a good price.


That contract is going to hurt Engvall's career because the Leafs can dress 21 players with him in the AHL and only 20 with him in the lineup. Hopefully for him the taxi squad won't count against the cap this season.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #889 by Curry Rage » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:17 pm

Ayup.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #890 by Curry Rage » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:23 pm

I think Engvall can still be a useful piece, I just think the money was premature and now is tough to justify with other options available. Engvall’s best hope is to model his game on Soupy, to be honest. Get pucks, move pucks, play D, compliment other dudes, kill some penalties. I don’t think anyone should shit on Engvall. He’s got tools like skating and puck protection, but his decision making needs work.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #891 by stoney » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:53 pm

No idea, with the freak accident he had, why he should sacrifice to make it under the cap.

I'd be looking at the 10+ mill guys and shaking my head in that room.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #892 by AZ » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:12 pm

Everyone should read this, not only because it is a great read but because it highlights the areas the Leafs organization prioritize and avoid altogether,

https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/tools-vs-toolbox
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #893 by Honus Joglund » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:37 pm

I don't get the anxiety about Engvall. He's a fantastic PKer and a monster of a man, on a team that has almost none of either of those traits. His speed and ability to drag the puck around are also excellent. He's not the most natural offensive player, but I think he's going to be a 30+ point guy. Even if he doesn't, he's still a quality role player.

He's also only making $1.25M, which is only $500,000 more than a PP specialist. I think you're crazy if you don't have him in your lineup for next year. I don't know who kills penalties for this team if Engvall is out of the lineup. Hyman, Marner, Mikheyev... Kerfoot? This is a job that somebody has to do.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #894 by LeafOfBread » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:02 pm

Yeah I like Engvall. I think he's only being singled out because his deal is the one in the bottom six that kinda sticks out since he's making more than guys who have accomplished a lot more, plus he was signed pre-pandemic so it looks worse compared to the pandemic cap era.

It would be unfortunate to move him, I liked what I saw from him in the playoffs and he is very solid defensively, and at PKing as has been mentioned. Was still just a rookie last year too, and the Leafs have done a good development job with him so far. In a vacuum it is not a bad deal at all, it's just that it stands out when compared to Thornton, Spezza, Vesey etc especially factoring in what those guys have done so far compared to a developing Engvall.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #895 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:15 pm

”Suzuki. Joshua Anderson. Suzuki again. Petry waits, Bogosian falls, where is Kerfoot going?” :great_sieve_lolongo:
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #896 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:29 pm

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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #897 by Whit Dickman » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:43 pm

Dermott took but a $10,000 raise. Good guy good guy
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #898 by Curry Rage » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:45 am

Looked at the LS depth chart and saw the writing on the wall, I’d imagine.
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #899 by MP » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:40 pm

I don't love the Jumbo Joe signing by you guys (I think he's done), but where it might payoff is if he can light a fire under Mitch and William to say look, you can't sit back and wait for it, fucking fight for it, opportunities aren't boundless, and some day you'll regret being 40+ still looking/hoping for a championship...
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Re: Offseason 2020: This Time It's The Same

Post #900 by Curry Rage » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:56 am

MP wrote:I don't love the Jumbo Joe signing by you guys (I think he's done), but where it might payoff is if he can light a fire under Mitch and William to say look, you can't sit back and wait for it, fucking fight for it, opportunities aren't boundless, and some day you'll regret being 40+ still looking/hoping for a championship...


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