The Vector Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19401 by AGENT ZERO » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:43 pm

Craig wrote:Does that really increase his impact though?


Yes
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19402 by Craig » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:22 am

Well, I'm convinced.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19403 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:48 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:You realize better personal numbers means a greater impact for his team, right?


Image

You do realize games are played in one stadium at a time right?


I don't know what you are trying to argue and I don't much care to find out.


That park factors impact everyone. Him playing in a bigger park will suppress his numbers, but, they'll suppress every power hitters numbers. Your logic is basically saying teams that play in pitcher friendly parks can't win games.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19404 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:52 am

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
Image

You do realize games are played in one stadium at a time right?


I don't know what you are trying to argue and I don't much care to find out.


That park factors impact everyone. Him playing in a bigger park will suppress his numbers, but, they'll suppress every power hitters numbers. Your logic is basically saying teams that play in pitcher friendly parks can't win games.


:donger:
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19405 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:53 am

Craig wrote:Well, I'm convinced.


I thought you might be.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19406 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:56 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
I don't know what you are trying to argue and I don't much care to find out.


That park factors impact everyone. Him playing in a bigger park will suppress his numbers, but, they'll suppress every power hitters numbers. Your logic is basically saying teams that play in pitcher friendly parks can't win games.


:donger:


Yes, that was my response as well in reading your argument.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19407 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:06 am

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:
That park factors impact everyone. Him playing in a bigger park will suppress his numbers, but, they'll suppress every power hitters numbers. Your logic is basically saying teams that play in pitcher friendly parks can't win games.


:donger:


Yes, that was my response as well in reading your argument.


Cool story bro
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19408 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:11 am

Not at all. Your argument doesn't make any sense and for whatever reason you've decided to be shitty about people not knowing what the fuck you actually mean.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19409 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:17 am

vf wrote:Not at all. Your argument doesn't make any sense and for whatever reason you've decided to be shitty about people not knowing what the fuck you actually mean.


Smaller park = more home runs, but what does it all mean!
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19410 by MonkeyWrench » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:19 pm

...so about that Diaz guy.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19411 by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:09 pm

Tear it downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Donaldson and some B level prospects for Reyes and one of those sweet OF prospects that the Cards have.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19412 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:Not at all. Your argument doesn't make any sense and for whatever reason you've decided to be shitty about people not knowing what the fuck you actually mean.


Smaller park = more home runs, but what does it all mean!


Again, both teams play in the same park. Stanton isn't Adam Dunn or Matt Stairs. Playing in a large park will suppress his HR totals, but, he won't become dramatically less valuable.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19413 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:...so about that Diaz guy.


Real good bounceback candidate. Between Tulo and Travis he'll get lots of playing time.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19414 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:11 pm

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:Not at all. Your argument doesn't make any sense and for whatever reason you've decided to be shitty about people not knowing what the fuck you actually mean.


Smaller park = more home runs, but what does it all mean!


Again, both teams play in the same park. Stanton isn't Adam Dunn or Matt Stairs. Playing in a large park will suppress his HR totals, but, he won't become dramatically less valuable.


Where did I say otherwise...
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19415 by vf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:18 pm

You realize better personal numbers means a greater impact for his team, right?
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19416 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:53 pm

And that translates into, he will dramatically become less valuable in a big park...
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19417 by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:00 pm

Man, Brandon Morrow got 11M per season from the Cubs over two years lol
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19418 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:25 pm

Total or per year?
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19419 by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:29 pm

per year
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19420 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:49 pm

That seems a tad rich, but the way the game is going it probably makes sense. Even elite starters only went about 4-5 innings on avg this post season.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19421 by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:08 pm

Shows the reliever market is insane. Wade Davis gonna get 18 per or something stupid.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19422 by vf » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:06 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:And that translates into, he will dramatically become less valuable in a big park...


Dramatic indeed.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19423 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:08 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Shows the reliever market is insane. Wade Davis gonna get 18 per or something stupid.


Is it though? The last three world series were won in large part because of their respective teams bull pens, and data is increasingly showing that teams are better off taking out their starters after going through the order twice.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19424 by Balki Bartokomous » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:42 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Balki Bartokomous wrote:Shows the reliever market is insane. Wade Davis gonna get 18 per or something stupid.


Is it though? The last three world series were won in large part because of their respective teams bull pens, and data is increasingly showing that teams are better off taking out their starters after going through the order twice.


This I think is bs. Not the data, but that pitchers can't adjust to hitters. The players are dumbed down, because this didn't used to be a problem.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19425 by Transplanted Caper » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:38 am

G.O.A.T

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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19426 by Balki Bartokomous » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:55 am

This one is even better:



Gibby forever
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19427 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:06 am

That's hilarious
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19428 by Vector » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 pm

Gibby for lifetime contract.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19429 by Balki Bartokomous » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:56 pm

Some more Jeter is a piece of shit evidence:

Marlins got four prospects for Ozuna from St. Louis, none of them were in the top 100 of the baseball America top prospect list. The Jays checked in and Jeter and fam wanted Guerrero Jr. AND Bichette. Both in the top 100 and they could end up being 1-2 in top prospects in baseball after this year.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19430 by stoney » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:06 am

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Some more Jeter is a piece of shit evidence:

Marlins got four prospects for Ozuna from St. Louis, none of them were in the top 100 of the baseball America top prospect list. The Jays checked in and Jeter and fam wanted Guerrero Jr. AND Bichette. Both in the top 100 and they could end up being 1-2 in top prospects in baseball after this year.


Well, Boras (who I don't usually like) described them running the place like a pawn shop instead of a jewellery store.

Either they are trying to keep the lights on by offloading (Which doesn't make sense with Ozuna) or there is something fishy going on. The perennial favs are the only ones getting loaded up so far.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19431 by mooseOAK » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:28 am

The Jays and Yankees are in the same division. Jeter is acting like he is still a Yankee.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19432 by LeafOfBread » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:50 am

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Some more Jeter is a piece of shit evidence:

Marlins got four prospects for Ozuna from St. Louis, none of them were in the top 100 of the baseball America top prospect list. The Jays checked in and Jeter and fam wanted Guerrero Jr. AND Bichette. Both in the top 100 and they could end up being 1-2 in top prospects in baseball after this year.

Source? I mean it wouldn't surprise me, guy's a cock.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19433 by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 am

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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19434 by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:15 am

LeafOfBread wrote:
Balki Bartokomous wrote:Some more Jeter is a piece of shit evidence:

Marlins got four prospects for Ozuna from St. Louis, none of them were in the top 100 of the baseball America top prospect list. The Jays checked in and Jeter and fam wanted Guerrero Jr. AND Bichette. Both in the top 100 and they could end up being 1-2 in top prospects in baseball after this year.

Source? I mean it wouldn't surprise me, guy's a cock.


The Marlins are basically a Yankee farm team now.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19435 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:18 am

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Some more Jeter is a piece of shit evidence:

Marlins got four prospects for Ozuna from St. Louis, none of them were in the top 100 of the baseball America top prospect list. The Jays checked in and Jeter and fam wanted Guerrero Jr. AND Bichette. Both in the top 100 and they could end up being 1-2 in top prospects in baseball after this year.


They are both already in the top 20.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19436 by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:24 am

I think guerrero is 2nd right now is he not?
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19437 by stoney » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:15 pm

Jeter should get used to people laughing and hanging up on him pretty quickly
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19438 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:04 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:I think guerrero is 2nd right now is he not?


Yeah BA has him #2 IIRC.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19439 by Transplanted Caper » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:36 pm

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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19440 by MonkeyWrench » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:46 pm

A bunch of yeesh for some oof.

Decent return for Kemp though.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19441 by Vector » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:38 pm

Basically allows the Dodgers to offer a mega-contract next year without incurring max overage tax penalties.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19442 by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:39 pm

I wonder how the Jays plan to be competitive in 2018 while bargain bin shopping for free agents........seems to me like the fix to torpedo the season and launch into a rebuild is in.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19443 by stoney » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:34 am

Balki Bartokomous wrote:I wonder how the Jays plan to be competitive in 2018 while bargain bin shopping for free agents........seems to me like the fix to torpedo the season and launch into a rebuild is in.


At this point, everything has to go right for the Jays and a few things have to go wrong for the Yanks and Red Sox (among others) for them to even be in the mix.

I would very much like them to be playing important games in August/September/October, but I just don't see it. Sanchez, Tulo, Travis, RF/LF, 5th starter all get resolved, with zero regression or injury from the players that looked good last year? Not what I would bet on.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19444 by Balki Bartokomous » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:58 am

No, I wouldn't either, that's why I want them to get to work and blow it up instead of lying and saying you plan on competing.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19445 by Transplanted Caper » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Granted the entire market still seems clogged, but the lack of action from the Jays so far makes this more interesting to me.

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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19446 by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:21 am

It has to be Alex Reyes +++
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19447 by Transplanted Caper » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:17 am

I highly doubt they get that, and it's why one needs to be really careful about attempts at rebuilding in baseball (and why it's especially silly to do so in a market like Toronto). Prospects can flame out, high draft picks from being bad have less utility, and take much longer to make an impact. Obviously, you reach certain points like where Toronto is at now where organizational depth, or lack there of, should preclude dealing top prospects, but Toronto should always be looking to stay competitive. I am fine with them attempting to be competitive this season and am fine with their first goal to be re-signing Donaldson. That said, going into the season with no major upgrades and Donaldson still an impending FA would be a own goal, especially if there is a significant difference in value in what you can get now, as opposed to July, for him.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19448 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:01 am

The Cardinals aren't giving up Alex Reyes for 1 year of JD.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19449 by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:42 am

If they're so confident in signing him to an extension they will. Like the Dickey trade it's conditional on an extension.
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Re: The John Farrell Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Post #19450 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:56 pm

That is not how it works, you don't give up added value because you are confident you can sign an extension. You either get one beforehand and add more value to the deal, or you don't and give up less.

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