Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3651 by LeafOfBread » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:58 am

Looks like the Leafs like what they see in Grundstrom. Here's hoping he can be a Franzen-type.

“Carl Grundstrom of Team Sweden had seven points in seven games at the World Juniors. The Leafs selected him 57th overall in the draft last year. Could he become a Leaf sooner rather than later?

Dreger: He could, as early as next season. Preliminary talks [are] underway. That would mean he would come over and play with the Toronto Maple Leafs or, worst case, the Toronto Marlies. Again, they’re just beginning to talk about it, and there is going to be a decision that has to be made by Grundstrom. Maybe he opts to stay in Sweden. But he’s having a heck of a year in Frolunda. Many compare him to, say, a Patric Hornqvist of the Pittsburgh Penguins, or for the throwbacks — the old group like us — maybe Claude Lemieux back in his day when he was ravaging the league with the Colorado Avalanche.”
– TSN’s Insider Trading, January 26


https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/01/ ... rundstrom/
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Post #3652 by Curry Rage » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:03 pm

Doesn't have anything near Franzen's size and strength. The Horse was a big fucking Viking throwback.

I'll take a guy with 20 goal hands who can make people mad as a hatter, though. I'm a big Hornqvist fan. He cracks me up.
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Post #3653 by LeafOfBread » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:43 pm

Courage 3.0 wrote:Doesn't have anything near Franzen's size and strength. The Horse was a big fucking Viking throwback.

I'll take a guy with 20 goal hands who can make people mad as a hatter, though. I'm a big Hornqvist fan. He cracks me up.

May not have his size but Carl seems to be a strong guy who's not afraid to muck it up in front of the net. Maybe a more apt comparison is Tomas Holmstrom, similar in stature. I do think Grundstrom has better raw skills than Holmstrom did though.

And ya, Hornqvist is certainly nothing to sneeze at.
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Post #3654 by vf » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:22 pm

Can I hear Uncle Leo with better hands?
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Post #3655 by Thomas Malthus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:25 pm

I hope he skates better than Leo...
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Post #3656 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:29 pm

Fortunately he does.
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Post #3657 by LeafOfBread » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:20 am

After a rocky start to the season the Marlies have seemed to pick things up and are only 1 pt out of a playoff spot now. Guys have stepped up in the absence of Kapanen and Leipsic as well which is nice. Rychel in particular after a slow start has 24 pts in his last 27 or something like that.
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Post #3658 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Taken from reddit:

Image
"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." - Ronald Coase
"[...]all models are wrong, some are useful." - George E. P. Box
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Post #3659 by Dynrehab » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:41 pm

lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,
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Post #3660 by vf » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:48 pm

Woof. What a list. Kegger turned into something nice atleast.
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Post #3661 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:44 pm

Dynrehab wrote:lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,


I honestly don't know what you are watching, Gardiner is very smart with the puck. No one on our blueline moves the puck up ice and passes out of trouble as well as he does. He definitely makes risky plays, but way more often than not they end up in positive outcomes.
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Post #3662 by LeafOfBread » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:48 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,


I honestly don't know what you are watching, Gardiner is very smart with the puck. No one on our blueline moves the puck up ice and passes out of trouble as well as he does. He definitely makes risky plays, but way more often than not they end up in positive outcomes.

Gardiner hate has gotten pretty stale I gotta say. He had a few bad games but I often feel like people overrate other D while underrating him big time.
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Post #3663 by Dynrehab » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:30 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,


I honestly don't know what you are watching, Gardiner is very smart with the puck. No one on our blueline moves the puck up ice and passes out of trouble as well as he does. He definitely makes risky plays, but way more often than not they end up in positive outcomes.


Yes, he has grown significantly from when that was written. At the time this was written, he was fast but looked dumb as a rock with the puck on his stick.
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Post #3664 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Fair
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3665 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:47 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,


I honestly don't know what you are watching, Gardiner is very smart with the puck. No one on our blueline moves the puck up ice and passes out of trouble as well as he does. He definitely makes risky plays, but way more often than not they end up in positive outcomes.

Gardiner hate has gotten pretty stale I gotta say. He had a few bad games but I often feel like people overrate other D while underrating him big time.


Confirmation bias can be difficult to overcome.
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Post #3666 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:06 pm

Dynrehab wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:lol, Jake Gardiner, smart with the puck. He is more like the Forrest Gump of hockey,


I honestly don't know what you are watching, Gardiner is very smart with the puck. No one on our blueline moves the puck up ice and passes out of trouble as well as he does. He definitely makes risky plays, but way more often than not they end up in positive outcomes.


Yes, he has grown significantly from when that was written. At the time this was written, he was fast but looked dumb as a rock with the puck on his stick.


His brain will never be as fast as his feet.
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Post #3667 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:09 pm

His biggest problem, he's often too soft.
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Post #3668 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:20 pm

I agree, PT. He loses way more battles down low in his own zone than he should.
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Post #3669 by clawfirst » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:43 pm

The less i watch hockey the less i hate him...

Ha
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Post #3670 by LeafErikson » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:14 pm

He's been better under Babs, but he's still a nightmare when he actually has to defend. With no to little pressure in his zone he's fine. He can break the puck out as well as anyone on the team. But like LoB said, he's far too soft. Old cliche but, tools no toolbox.
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Post #3671 by Whit Dickman » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:32 pm

Marlies won 6-4over the comets. Things are starting to come together. From the game notes

Andreas Johnsson put the Marlies on the board with his 11th goal of the season at 19:51 of the first period and later added an assist and the empty netter (12). Johnsson is on a three game point streak (2 goals, 4 assists) and has eight points (3 goals, 5 assists) in his last six games.

Dmytro Timashov scored his eighth goal of the season at 6:15 of the second period on the power-play and now has five points (4 goals, 1 assist) in his past five games.

Byron Froese extended his point streak to three games (4 goals, 4 assists) with a goal and two assists for his eighth multi-point game of the season. Froese has 34 points (21 goals, 13 assists) through 44 games this season.

Seth Griffith picked up his third goal of the season at 19:00 of the second period. Griffith is riding a nine game point streak since joining the Marlies, collecting 13 points (3 goals, 10 assists) in that span.

Trevor Moore scored his seventh of the season and collected two assists for a three-point night. Moore has 13 points (4 goals, 9 assists) in his past ten games.

Frank Corrado registered three assists, giving him six assists through nine games this season.

Colin Smith picked up two assists tonight and has 23 points (6 goals, 17 assists) through 45 games this season.

Sparks has a .923 sv% as well.
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Post #3672 by Philthy Thrillz » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Games on tsn2 if anyone is interested
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Post #3673 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:01 am

Whit Dickman wrote:Marlies won 6-4over the comets. Things are starting to come together. From the game notes

Andreas Johnsson put the Marlies on the board with his 11th goal of the season at 19:51 of the first period and later added an assist and the empty netter (12). Johnsson is on a three game point streak (2 goals, 4 assists) and has eight points (3 goals, 5 assists) in his last six games.

Dmytro Timashov scored his eighth goal of the season at 6:15 of the second period on the power-play and now has five points (4 goals, 1 assist) in his past five games.

Byron Froese extended his point streak to three games (4 goals, 4 assists) with a goal and two assists for his eighth multi-point game of the season. Froese has 34 points (21 goals, 13 assists) through 44 games this season.

Seth Griffith picked up his third goal of the season at 19:00 of the second period. Griffith is riding a nine game point streak since joining the Marlies, collecting 13 points (3 goals, 10 assists) in that span.

Trevor Moore scored his seventh of the season and collected two assists for a three-point night. Moore has 13 points (4 goals, 9 assists) in his past ten games.

Frank Corrado registered three assists, giving him six assists through nine games this season.

Colin Smith picked up two assists tonight and has 23 points (6 goals, 17 assists) through 45 games this season.

Sparks has a .923 sv% as well.


Griffith and Corrado have been a huge boost to the team, they definitely needed some help from more experienced guys.

Rychel has also been great after a slow start, he's near PPG over his last ~30 games or so. Good to see them turning it around, it was looking like a lost season earlier and I was kind of disappointed in guys like Johnsson and Timashov as I expected more.

Hopefully Kapanen and Leipsic come back sooner than later.
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Post #3674 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:26 pm

Boys just learning how to do it right.
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Post #3675 by Whit Dickman » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:03 am

Boy, if they could do some damage in the playoffs without having the most talented 7 or so rookies on the team....

Well, that would be cool
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Post #3676 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:30 am

Even without the guys who are with the Leafs right now I still think our prospect pool is better than it has been in the past.
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Post #3677 by mooseOAK » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:11 am

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Post #3678 by LeafErikson » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:47 am

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=mpC-L8bPHTw

The sense I'm getting just from stuff I've read on him recently is he could really push for a spot this fall.
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Post #3679 by cawbber » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:11 pm

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Post #3680 by vf » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Marlies randomly on tsn2. Marlies up 4-0.
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Post #3681 by Honus Joglund » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:22 pm

Turns out the Marlies got good. In their last 30 games (while missing Kapanen and Leipsic for most of it) they're 21-7-2 and today they moved into first place in their division.
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Post #3682 by mooseOAK » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:53 pm

They finally have vets that produce.
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Post #3683 by Whit Dickman » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:15 pm

Apparently Johnsson (or however the fuck it's spelled now) has 25 pts in the last 26 games
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Post #3684 by LeafOfBread » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:47 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:Apparently Johnsson (or however the fuck it's spelled now) has 25 pts in the last 26 games

Yeah he's really turned it on after a slow start. Good to see, I expected him to dominate considering his Swedish numbers and age. He's a dark horse for a spot with the Leafs next year, although it's gonna be tough to have to compete with Leivo, Soshnikov, Leipsic and Kapanen. Fuck, there's no room for all these guys. Trading JVR would open up a spot but that's it really unless there's another trade or something.
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Post #3685 by Honus Joglund » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:38 am

A winger for defensemen prospect swap would make a lot of sense right now. There's no way that we'll have room for all these wingers while we have five or six rookie wingers already playing well in the NHL:

Kapanen
Leipsic
Johnsson
Rychel
Korshkov
Bracco
Grundstrom
Aaltonen
Moore
Timashov
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Post #3686 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:06 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:A winger for defensemen prospect swap would make a lot of sense right now. There's no way that we'll have room for all these wingers while we have five or six rookie wingers already playing well in the NHL:

Kapanen
Leipsic
Johnsson
Rychel
Korshkov
Bracco
Grundstrom
Aaltonen
Moore
Timashov


Trade a couple of them with Bozie Bozak for Tavares

Trade JVR for a defenseman.

Win the cup
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Post #3687 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:10 pm

literally anyone - Tavares - Marner

someone pull my hair :whip:
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Post #3688 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:42 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:literally anyone - Tavares - Marner

someone pull my hair :whip:


To those who question whether Tavares is "needed":

The Leafs have rookies that aren't playing like rookies. We have one chance to take advantage of their ELC's. That means paying for vets in the short term and finding ways to drop salary when we need it to sign the rookies. With a couple of key signings, we could be competing for the Cup next season.

If Tavares could be convinced to take a limited NTC, he would be moveable.

In theory, the Leafs could find room for Tavares and Shattenkirk next season.

Our cap next year would only be ~$57.875 million with this lineup

JVR ($4.25) - Tavares ($6) - Marner ($0.9)
Hyman (~$1) - Matthews ($0.925) - Nylander ($0.9)
Komarov ($2.95) - Kadri ($4.5) - Brown (~$1)
Martin ($2.5) - Boyle ($2) - Kapanen ($0.9)
Leivo ($0.6) / Soshnikov ($0.7)

Rielly ($5) - Shattenkirk (~$6.5)
Gardiner ($4.05) - Zaitsev (~$3.5)
Dermott/Hunwick/whoever (~$1) - Carrick ($0.75)
Marchenko/Marincin (~$1.45)

Andersen ($5)
Backup (~$1.5)

Add the Kessel, Gleason, and Cowen salaries ($2.28) and we're at $60.155 million.

There's enough room there to pick up a second free-agent defenseman.

As the Hawks have taught us, it's easy to shed salary. Acquiring players like Tavares is extremely difficult. If it's possible, the Leafs would be very stupid to not do it.
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Post #3689 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:50 pm

I keep hearing we will have a bunch of bonus overages, something around five mill, to fit in next year. Any truth to this?
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Post #3690 by Dynrehab » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:30 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:I keep hearing we will have a bunch of bonus overages, something around five mill, to fit in next year. Any truth to this?


It is hard to say exactly how LTIR dollars are used, specifically when it comes to bonus money. There is lots of talk it cannot be used on bonuses (which makes little sense to me) but if so, the Leafs will have about $5 000 000 in unaccountable bonuses they need to use next year. I don't think it's a huge issue next year, but it then means more $ gets held over until the following year, if the ELC guys keep similar paces. It pushes things back year to year. So they'll want the space to cover some of the bonuses.
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Post #3691 by mooseOAK » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:36 pm

Even Connor Brown should get at least a games played bonus.
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Post #3692 by LeafErikson » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:49 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:literally anyone - Tavares - Marner

someone pull my hair :whip:


To those who question whether Tavares is "needed":

The Leafs have rookies that aren't playing like rookies. We have one chance to take advantage of their ELC's. That means paying for vets in the short term and finding ways to drop salary when we need it to sign the rookies. With a couple of key signings, we could be competing for the Cup next season.

If Tavares could be convinced to take a limited NTC, he would be moveable.

In theory, the Leafs could find room for Tavares and Shattenkirk next season.

Our cap next year would only be ~$57.875 million with this lineup

JVR ($4.25) - Tavares ($6) - Marner ($0.9)
Hyman (~$1) - Matthews ($0.925) - Nylander ($0.9)
Komarov ($2.95) - Kadri ($4.5) - Brown (~$1)
Martin ($2.5) - Boyle ($2) - Kapanen ($0.9)
Leivo ($0.6) / Soshnikov ($0.7)

Rielly ($5) - Shattenkirk (~$6.5)
Gardiner ($4.05) - Zaitsev (~$3.5)
Dermott/Hunwick/whoever (~$1) - Carrick ($0.75)
Marchenko/Marincin (~$1.45)

Andersen ($5)
Backup (~$1.5)

Add the Kessel, Gleason, and Cowen salaries ($2.28) and we're at $60.155 million.

There's enough room there to pick up a second free-agent defenseman.

As the Hawks have taught us, it's easy to shed salary. Acquiring players like Tavares is extremely difficult. If it's possible, the Leafs would be very stupid to not do it.


Who exactly have we traded for Tavares in this scenario? There's literally no change in the roster vs this season outside of Tavares in, Bozak out.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3693 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:48 pm

LeafErikson wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:literally anyone - Tavares - Marner

someone pull my hair :whip:


To those who question whether Tavares is "needed":

The Leafs have rookies that aren't playing like rookies. We have one chance to take advantage of their ELC's. That means paying for vets in the short term and finding ways to drop salary when we need it to sign the rookies. With a couple of key signings, we could be competing for the Cup next season.

If Tavares could be convinced to take a limited NTC, he would be moveable.

In theory, the Leafs could find room for Tavares and Shattenkirk next season.

Our cap next year would only be ~$57.875 million with this lineup

JVR ($4.25) - Tavares ($6) - Marner ($0.9)
Hyman (~$1) - Matthews ($0.925) - Nylander ($0.9)
Komarov ($2.95) - Kadri ($4.5) - Brown (~$1)
Martin ($2.5) - Boyle ($2) - Kapanen ($0.9)
Leivo ($0.6) / Soshnikov ($0.7)

Rielly ($5) - Shattenkirk (~$6.5)
Gardiner ($4.05) - Zaitsev (~$3.5)
Dermott/Hunwick/whoever (~$1) - Carrick ($0.75)
Marchenko/Marincin (~$1.45)

Andersen ($5)
Backup (~$1.5)

Add the Kessel, Gleason, and Cowen salaries ($2.28) and we're at $60.155 million.

There's enough room there to pick up a second free-agent defenseman.

As the Hawks have taught us, it's easy to shed salary. Acquiring players like Tavares is extremely difficult. If it's possible, the Leafs would be very stupid to not do it.


Who exactly have we traded for Tavares in this scenario? There's literally no change in the roster vs this season outside of Tavares in, Bozak out.


earlier in the thread I said we would trade Bozie Bozak and some of the young-uns for JT.

But maybe we just sign him. Add $5 mill or so that I missed on bonuses and change JT's number to 7.5 or some such.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3694 by LeafErikson » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:54 pm

My guess would be a trade for Tavares would likely cost us quite a bit more than that. I don't think we get him without giving up Nylander or Marner, which makes it a non starter for me.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3695 by Honus Joglund » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:14 pm

I don't see the point in spending $9+ million on Tavares when Matthews/Kadri/Nylander is going to be the best group of centremen in the league in a few years. Matthews and Kadri can both play the heavy minutes and leave Nylander to feast on third lines. These dollars and assets should be directed towards the blueline, IMHOMO.

And to be honest, I think we dodged a major bullet when Stamkos decided to stay in TB.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3696 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:04 pm

Honus Joglund wrote:I don't see the point in spending $9+ million on Tavares when Matthews/Kadri/Nylander is going to be the best group of centremen in the league in a few years. Matthews and Kadri can both play the heavy minutes and leave Nylander to feast on third lines. These dollars and assets should be directed towards the blueline, IMHOMO.

And to be honest, I think we dodged a major bullet when Stamkos decided to stay in TB.


Tavares allows you to keep Nylander on the wing.

Matthews - Nylander
Tavares - Marner
Kadri

Doesn't matter who the rest if the forwards are. We would have the best offense in the league.

We have a short window while these guys are on ELCs. When we need the cap space, we can trade Tavares. Or thin the bottom of the lineup. By that time we might have a Cup.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3697 by Whit Dickman » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:05 pm

LeafErikson wrote:My guess would be a trade for Tavares would likely cost us quite a bit more than that. I don't think we get him without giving up Nylander or Marner, which makes it a non starter for me.

Do you see someone giving up a package like that for one year of JT?
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3698 by LeafErikson » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:11 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:
LeafErikson wrote:My guess would be a trade for Tavares would likely cost us quite a bit more than that. I don't think we get him without giving up Nylander or Marner, which makes it a non starter for me.

Do you see someone giving up a package like that for one year of JT?

But in your scenario aren't we getting more than one year of JT?
I'm with JH. Tavares isn't the right guy for this squad. Better to focus on spending assets on upgrading the D.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3699 by vf » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:20 am

The forwards are fine, upgrade the back end. I'm with hojoimhomo.
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Re: Marlies and Prospects - Hell no! We won't go!

Post #3700 by Dynrehab » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 am

To me I think you stay away from Tavares, try to get the boys to buy into a decent but not crippling bridge deal and then compliment them with shorter term UFA's and take advantage of the ELC that are still to come. It's give a window of 4-6 years starting next year, but they key is to keep a talent pipeline flowing, which may mean you deal guys like JVR and Bozak when they have one year left. Although it could be that they are the complimentary guys who are here 4-6 more years.

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