*NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

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Post #3601 by Bernie Bernbaum » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:30 pm

It's almost like people of all faiths and walks of life can be shitty.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/oshawa-woman- ... -1.3449774
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Post #3602 by Whit Dickman » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:21 am

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:It's almost like people of all faiths and walks of life can be shitty.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/oshawa-woman- ... -1.3449774


now I'm wondering who claimed otherwise.

are people from all faiths and walks of life equally shitty?
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Post #3603 by Whit Dickman » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:22 am

Here's an interesting paper:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12435/full

Islamist extremism is often explained by the suffering endured by Muslims in Islamic countries as a result of Western-led wars. However, many terrorist attacks have been carried out by European Muslims with no personal experiences of war. Across two studies among Danish Muslims, we tested if what we call “victimization-by-proxy processes” motivate behavioral intentions to commit acts of violence. We used Muslim identification, perceived injustice of Western foreign policies, and group-based anger to predict violent and nonviolent behavioral intentions. More importantly, we compared path models of Danish Muslims from conflict zones with those without direct personal experience of Western-led occupation. We found similar effects among the participants in each category, that is, vicarious psychological responses mimicked those of personally experienced adversity. In fact, participants born in Western Europe were, on average, more strongly identified with Muslims, more likely to perceive Western foreign policy as more unjust, reported greater group-based anger, and were more inclined to help Muslims both by nonviolent and violent means.
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Post #3604 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:32 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:now I'm wondering who claimed otherwise.

are people from all faiths and walks of life equally shitty?

I did not say that, did I? My point is that tbm is building his case solely on anecdotes, that he is cherry-picking those anecdotes, and that a person can use anecdotes to link almost any group to extremism. tbm's invoking these anecdotes to argue that Islam is incompatible with the rest of the world, in which he's including Canada. He has ignored data that shows that more than 80% of Canadian Muslims express a profound love for our country, its democracy, its freedoms, and its way of life, indicating that Islam as practiced by mainstream Canadian Muslims is compatible with Canada. He is trying to refute this by posting a handful of stories about extremist Canadian Muslims, when I or anyone else could just as easily find as many stories about hate crimes and hate speech committed by non-Muslim Canadians against Muslim Canadians.
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Post #3605 by paulster » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:41 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote: data that shows that more than 80% of Canadian Muslims express a profound love for our country, its democracy, its freedoms, and its way of life,


What about the other 20%?
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Post #3606 by vf » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:43 pm

They're Conservatives. :trump:
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Post #3607 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:56 pm

paulster wrote:
Bernie Bernbaum wrote: data that shows that more than 80% of Canadian Muslims express a profound love for our country, its democracy, its freedoms, and its way of life,


What about the other 20%?

It's 17% — the exact number was 83%. The survey asked "Are you very, somewhat, not very, or not at all proud to be a Canadian?" and the 83% is only the "very proud" respondents, so the 17% also contains any respondents who said they were "somewhat proud."

It's also worth pointing out that only 73% of Canadians nationwide responded that they were "very proud" to be Canadian, a full 10% lower than Muslim Canadians.
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Post #3608 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:59 pm

I posted the survey I'm referring to earlier in the thread, but if anyone wants to read further: http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uplo ... report.pdf
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Post #3609 by tbm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:31 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:now I'm wondering who claimed otherwise.

are people from all faiths and walks of life equally shitty?

I did not say that, did I? My point is that tbm is building his case solely on anecdotes, that he is cherry-picking those anecdotes, and that a person can use anecdotes to link almost any group to extremism. tbm's invoking these anecdotes to argue that Islam is incompatible with the rest of the world, in which he's including Canada. He has ignored data that shows that more than 80% of Canadian Muslims express a profound love for our country, its democracy, its freedoms, and its way of life, indicating that Islam as practiced by mainstream Canadian Muslims is compatible with Canada. He is trying to refute this by posting a handful of stories about extremist Canadian Muslims, when I or anyone else could just as easily find as many stories about hate crimes and hate speech committed by non-Muslim Canadians against Muslim Canadians.


Bernie, I'm talking about Islam, the religion. Here is something I posted in another thread a little while back when the M103 motion was brought up, which was passed in Canada recently. I think it's a good time to post it again.


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Post #3610 by Curry Rage » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:26 pm

vf wrote:They're Conservatives. :trump:


Kidding aside - and a little off topic - but it's kind of interesting that the Nouvelle Droit in France and certain Eurasianist types in Russia actually look at Muslims as allies for their goal of creating an anti-liberal, conservative/traditionalist world order. As far as they're concerned, their piety and their conservative social stances are the kind of thing we might need a little more of.
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Post #3611 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:10 pm

The problem with that clip, tbm, is that Milewski does not understand the definition of the word he's talking about.

Oxford English Dictionary:
Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims


Oxford Living Dictionary:
dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force


Cambridge Dictionary:
unreasonable dislike or fear of, and prejudice against, Muslims or Islam


Merriam-Webster
irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against Islam or people who practice Islam


I'm sorry the Liberal MP on his show did a poor job of pointing out that Milewski is making shit up.

You cannot say you are against a religious faith and also say that you are okay with people who practice that faith. When you say you're against Islam but not Muslims, you are saying you are against Muslims if they don't practice Islam. The problem is, that means they are no longer Muslims. So one way or the other, saying Islam doesn't belong is saying that Muslims don't belong. It is the same trick social conservatives tried to pull when they denied gay people's rights by saying they weren't actually against gay people, they were just against homosexuality. It was dumb and evil then, and it's dumb and evil now.
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Post #3612 by tbm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:04 pm

In Canada Islamophobia was not defined at all in motion M103. http://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentaria ... alid(88849)/Motions?documentId=8661986

^^
If the above hyperlink doesn't load properly just search for "m103 motion ourcommons" in google, should be the first result, then click on "show details" on the ourcomons (Parliament of Canada/House of Commons) page. Here's the copied text if you don't want to bother with either,

M103 - Systemic racism and religious discrimination

Text of the Motion That,

in the opinion of the House, the government should: (a) recognize the need to quell the increasing public climate of hate and fear; (b) condemn Islamophobia and all forms of systemic racism and religious discrimination and take note of House of Commons’ petition e-411 and the issues raised by it; and (c) request that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage undertake a study on how the government could (i) develop a whole-of-government approach to reducing or eliminating systemic racism and religious discrimination including Islamophobia, in Canada, while ensuring a community-centered focus with a holistic response through evidence-based policy-making, (ii) collect data to contextualize hate crime reports and to conduct needs assessments for impacted communities, and that the Committee should present its findings and recommendations to the House no later than 240 calendar days from the adoption of this motion, provided that in its report, the Committee should make recommendations that the government may use to better reflect the enshrined rights and freedoms in the Constitution Acts, including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Someone else explained her definition of Islamophobia, but in comparison to the ones you posted Bernie it's off too. Iqra Khalid, a Muslim and the Liberal MP who tabled the M103 motion. She was asked a number of times and finally gave a response,

On Wednesday Khalid offered this: "What is Islamophobia? The most commonly used definition, and the one I ascribe to, is that Islamophobia is the irrational hatred of Muslims that leads to discrimination," she said.

Anderson countered: "This is a word that we see often but one that many people are uncomfortable with because they do not know what it includes."

Karim Achab, a linguistics professor at the University of Ottawa, said any word with "phobia," such as claustrophobia, sociophobia or homophobia, implies a disorder and suggests people who have a negative opinion about Islam and who are vocal about it should be seeking medical or psychological help.

He believes the term is used to make people feel guilty and silence criticism about Islam. He said a more appropriate term would be one using the prefix anti-, as in anti-Semitism.


Oxford Dictionary defines Islamophobia as "dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force," while Webster's online dictionary defines it as "prejudice against Muslims." Merriam-Webster offers a definition most similar to Khalid's, which is "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against Islam or people who practise Islam."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iqra-kh ... -1.3987668


Iqra Khalid's definition left out "Islam" (the religion) completely in her response to what is Islamophobia. That's worth noting in my opinion because I and many others, not just Canadians, tend to agree with what Karim Achab said in the CBC article. I also don't think Milewski was necessarily using an incorrect definition of Islamophobia as there are a few versions of Islamphobia, depending on who you ask or where you look. Perhaps he used Iqra Khalid's version which again made no mention of Islam (the religion) since the CBC segment was clearly about the term and how it's being defined (sort of) in Canada.
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Post #3613 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:32 pm

If you are talking about Muslims, you aren't leaving out Islam. Saying that someone is prejudiced against homosexuals does not mean you are leaving out homosexuality. Saying someone is prejudiced against Christians doesn't mean you are leaving out Christianity.

In Dr. Achab's analysis, he isn't taking issue with the "Islam" part. He's taking issue with the "-phobia" part. So that argument doesn't support your case. I happen to agree with Dr. Achab that anti-Islam or anti-Muslim is better language to use — I think the suffix "-phobia" has been misused since it was popularized through "homophobia." That said, nobody seems to have any problem using "homophobia" to describe anti-gay prejudice. If you think "homophobia" is a suitable term for "prejudice against homosexuality and homosexuals," then there is no reason you should have a problem with Islamophobia meaning "prejudice against Islam and Muslims."

With regards to your quibbles about the definitions, the definitions you listed are consistent with one another. "Dislike of or prejudice against," "prejudice against," and "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against," are all saying essentially the same thing, and they are all in line with Khalid's definition.

The only reason you think there's any disagreement about what Islamophobia means is because Conservatives needed an excuse to cloak their bigotry while opposing M-103. They recycled the same dishonest schtick they used when they opposed homosexuality — "It's not about gays/Muslims, it's about homosexuality/Islam." As I explained above, it's an impossible position. If you have a problem with Islam, it means you have a problem with people who practice Islam - meaning Muslims. The only way you wouldn't have a problem with them is if they stopped practicing Islam, which means they're no longer Muslims. It's rhetorical horseshit.
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Post #3614 by tbm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:40 pm

Muslims are people, Islam is a religion.
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Post #3615 by Bernie Bernbaum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:48 pm

tbm wrote:Muslims are people, Islam is a religion.

Homosexuals are people. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Therefore, discrimination against homosexuality = okay, right?

Edit: fixed
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Post #3616 by tbm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:52 pm

Relevant read over at the National Post today,


If we’re to fight terrorism effectively we need to stop saying ‘Islamophobia’

In response to successive terror attacks on Britain, Prime Minister Theresa May said that things could not continue as they were. By “things” she meant the systems set up by democracies, particularly Britain, to prevent atrocities like those experienced recently in Manchester and at London Bridge. The systems of defence have proven inadequate.

It seems likely that many people, in many countries, agree with her. We must somehow avoid letting these crimes by fanatic jihadis become so frequent that we view them as more or less normal. Few will be willing to settle for the insouciant view of London’s mayor, Sadiq Khan, that terrorist attacks are now “part and parcel of living in a big city.”

In these circumstances, governments will likely step up the extent of their warfare against ISIL and its equivalents in their home bases. Security services in many countries will intensify their surveillance and prosecution of the jihadis who live among them.

Private citizens, and private media companies, can take on an equally important task. Individuals cannot hunt down or shoot the terrorists but we can work toward a society in which terrorism is recognized by everyone as irredeemably evil. We can change the climate of opinion in our world so that random killings are regarded as a sure sign of viciously deranged minds.

Maybe we should begin by retiring the word Islamophobia in the interest of a franker attitude to terrorism. A word invented in 1997, Islamophobia shelters some dubious ideas: it implies that anyone who criticizes any aspect of Islam is clinically ill.

A letter from a reader, referring to my column last week on the murders of Christians, mentioned an argument Pope Benedict made a few years ago. He said that Islam is flawed by fanaticism and its intolerance of other religions. “From that point on,” my reader recalled, “the resulting uproar silenced the world in spite of the rise of ISIL with its kidnappings, beheadings, and persecution of all non-believers. The world owes Benedict an apology.”

A good point. Any great institution deserves and needs criticism, and needs it most when it affects millions of lives and can be used as an excuse to kill humans and disrupt societies. The idea of self-criticism is slowly becoming acceptable among Muslims, perhaps especially the clergy.

A report from London says that hundreds of imams and other Muslim religious leaders refused to perform funeral prayers for the London Bridge attackers. A statement from the British Muslim Forum said mosques will “challenge, robustly and precisely, the perverted interpretation of Islam that is put forward by ISIL and other extremist groups” and will ask that anyone expressing sympathy for the terrorists be reported to the authorities.

Qari Asim, a Leeds imam speaking for the Forum, said the group aimed to broadcast the message that violent extremism is “forbidden” by Islam. “If you follow this path you are stepping away from Islam to a dark and godless place,” he said.

It’s clear that many young Muslims have not heard this message, or have ignored it. ISIL, recruiting by the Internet, convinces an impressive number of young people in the West to leave their homes and join in a world of bigotry and terror. Or they can serve as distant warriors in their own countries.

In Canada, we should have an independent, non-government organization to recruit anti-terrorist Muslims who will express themselves persistently, in company with non-Muslims. It should be an NGO in order to avoid the compromises that come with government.

The issue calls for community as well as religious participation. James Malizia, assistant commissioner of the RCMP, said in a recent interview with the National Post, “It’s a social issue where families, social networks, need to get involved.” That’s the only way potential recruits can be reached, and persuaded to reject ISIL and its questionable promises.

Paul Berman, a first-class American political writer, this week summed up in Tablet magazine the reality of those who are trying to disrupt civilization: “I do not think that terrorist acts are expressions of sociological anguish, nor are they expressions of psychological anguish, nor are they the malign by-product of British imperialism, or of Zionism. The terrorist acts are the expressions of their own doctrine, and of nothing else. They are an existential choice, which is loathesomeness itself. An uglier movement than Islamist terrorism has never existed. More powerful movements have existed. But uglier ones, no. Islamist terror is the ultimate in repulsiveness.”

Repulsive, certainly. But also clever and determined. It will be hard to defeat, but it’s vital that we succeed.



http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comme ... extremists
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Post #3617 by clawfirst » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:56 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
tbm wrote:Muslims are people, Islam is a religion.

Homosexuals are people. Homosexuality is a condition. Therefore, discrimination against homosexuality = okay, right?

Lol did you just slip up and show a bias or were you predicting the rights definitions
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Post #3618 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:12 am

1. Why — if Islam is a religion and Muslims are people, which are two separate things — does the column have so many references to Muslims? I thought it was talking about Islam? I am so confused.
2. Muslims already do all of the stuff the article writer is suggesting. They speak out against terrorists. They work with law enforcement to report potential extremists. They create networks to support youth who seem like they could be prone.
3. If you, this writer, and the rest of the world would simply do as the Imams in the article do and single out the strains of Islam that support political violence, recognize that they are separate from mainstream Islam, and avoid painting all of Islam with the same brush, this wouldn't be an issue.
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Post #3619 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:14 am

clawfirst wrote:
Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
tbm wrote:Muslims are people, Islam is a religion.

Homosexuals are people. Homosexuality is a condition. Therefore, discrimination against homosexuality = okay, right?

Lol did you just slip up and show a bias or were you predicting the rights definitions

Did not mean condition in a clinical sense, just in the generic definition. Admittedly a super-poor choice — wish I'd picked a different word.
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Post #3620 by clawfirst » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:19 am

I think its perfect
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Post #3621 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:23 am

lol. piggy
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Post #3622 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:02 pm

I realize you guys don't really give that much of a shit, but since I do: my brain blanked when I was trying to think of the phrase "sexual orientation," and I didn't want to imply that being gay was a lifestyle choice. I was looking for a generic word that denoted a person's status, and I stepped in shit.
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Post #3623 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:03 pm

With that covered, I'm still waiting for tbm to explain how Muslims can be compatible with the rest of the world when the one thing that makes them Muslims isn't.
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Post #3624 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:18 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:I realize you guys don't really give that much of a shit, but since I do: my brain blanked when I was trying to think of the phrase "sexual orientation," and I didn't want to imply that being gay was a lifestyle choice. I was looking for a generic word that denoted a person's status, and I stepped in shit.

Quite a large number of Muslim countries still have a death penalty in place for people that find themselves conditioned that way. I interpret your views as extremely ignorant. I can't take anything you say on the matter seriously now.
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Post #3625 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:12 pm

The sad thing is that people like tbm are dumb enough to think your trolling has an actual point.
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Post #3626 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:27 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:The sad thing is that people like tbm are dumb enough to think your trolling has an actual point.

I'm not trolling.
I think your views on homosexuals are extremely ignorant. for fuck sakes piggy, it's 2017. conditioned?
wow.
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Post #3627 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:34 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:With that covered, I'm still waiting for tbm to explain how Muslims can be compatible with the rest of the world when the one thing that makes them Muslims isn't.

maybe you could answer your own question by giving tbm a list of the top 10 muslim countries you can't wait to move to.
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Post #3628 by vf » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:47 pm

What a useless red herring.
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Post #3629 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 pm

vf wrote:What a useless red herring.

to you, sure. but that's wildly understandable.
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Post #3630 by tbm » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:05 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:With that covered, I'm still waiting for tbm to explain how Muslims can be compatible with the rest of the world when the one thing that makes them Muslims isn't.


Reform, and it must come from within.
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Post #3631 by Bernie Bernbaum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:16 pm

tbm wrote:
Bernie Bernbaum wrote:With that covered, I'm still waiting for tbm to explain how Muslims can be compatible with the rest of the world when the one thing that makes them Muslims isn't.


Reform, and it must come from within.

So, you're saying: 1) right now, Muslims aren't compatible; and 2) that if Muslims practiced a peaceful and tolerant version of Islam they would be.

Which means: 1) you've been talking about Muslims all along; and 2) that you should have no problem with the vast majority of Canadian Muslims.
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Post #3632 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:18 pm

fine.
a list of the top 3 muslim countries you'd move to piggy and vf.
christian based Canada and the US are now apparently not good enough places/tolerant enough places to live anymore.
list the the awesome muslim alternatives.
go
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3633 by vf » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:36 pm

More useless red herrings.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3634 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:45 pm

vf wrote:More useless red herrings.

I'm sorry you can't list 3. how about 1?
“No country would find 173 billion barrels of oil in the ground and just leave them there.”
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3635 by tbm » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:51 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
tbm wrote:
Bernie Bernbaum wrote:With that covered, I'm still waiting for tbm to explain how Muslims can be compatible with the rest of the world when the one thing that makes them Muslims isn't.


Reform, and it must come from within.

So, you're saying: 1) right now, Muslims aren't compatible; and 2) that if Muslims practiced a peaceful and tolerant version of Islam they would be.

Which means: 1) you've been talking about Muslims all along; and 2) that you should have no problem with the vast majority of Canadian Muslims.



The 21st century began with a bloodbath of the innocent when Islamist terrorists declared a world war on non-Muslims in the name of jihad, Allah and Islam.

From New York to New Delhi, Philadelphia to the Philippines, these terrorists have killed the “kufaar” with no mercy; justifying beheadings, slaughter and the rape of sexual slaves by referring to the Islamic holy book, the Qur’an, as their equivalent of The Art of War.

On Saturday night, two more atrocities occurred.

In the first, a suicide bomber killed 18 in the Afghan capital of Kabul.

Hours later, Pakistan-born Khuram Butt led another atrocity on London Bridge, not just with a rented truck mowing down pedestrians, but with the added horror of three, sword-waving jihadis attacking weekend revellers while chanting “this is for Allah”.

The reaction to the horror was the same as we saw and heard from then president George W. Bush, who after the 9/11 attack, mainly by Saudi terrorists, remarked, “Islam is a religion of peace.”

Sixteen years later, the rhetoric has not changed.

No Western leaders, not our own photogenic, canoe-paddling Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, nor his handsome counterpart in France, President Emmanuel Macron, dares to utter one word of critique about Islam and its role in triggering so much mayhem, for so long.

Trudeau believes “Islamophobia” is the real threat to Canada, not Islamofascism.

The reaction from British Prime Minister Theresa May, though more truthful, ended with the same apologetic approach to the elephant in the room – Islam.

Although she referred to “Islamist extremism” as an “evil ideology,” she qualified her remark by saying, “it [Islamist extremism] is a perversion of Islam and a perversion of the truth.”

London’s Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan, (not an Islamist by any stretch) nonetheless tippy toed around the question of how Islam was inspiring young men to kill non-Muslims, or Muslims of other sects within Islam, or Muslims like me who publicly raise these contentious issues.

As Khan put it: “This sickening act has nothing to do with the Islam I know. To murder innocent people, especially during Ramadan, is a rejection of the true values of my religion.”

Here is my message to May and Khan:

The London Bridge attack, the Kabul suicide bombing, the slaughter of Christians in Egypt and the attack by ISIS in the Philippines last week, as well as the Melbourne and Paris attacks on Tuesday, are all based on sharia Islamic law. All were carried out by Muslims inspired by the Qur’an.

Here is one of the many verses in the Qur’an invoked by jihadi terrorists.

It is from chapter eight entitled, The Spoils of War:

Quran 8:12 - “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed [Muslims]. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved [non-Muslims], so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”

When confronted by critics to explain this call for beheading non-Muslims, Islamists and their apologists say this verse was revealed for a specific battle at a specific time during the life of Prophet Muhammad and is no longer applicable.

However, the same Islamist clerics then return to their mosques to preach the same verse as part of Muslim prayers.

In the words of Prime Minister May, “enough is enough”.

Be truthful, O Muslims, before it is too late.


http://www.torontosun.com/2017/06/06/th ... -terrorism
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3636 by tbm » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:01 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:So, you're saying: 1) right now, Muslims aren't compatible; and 2) that if Muslims practiced a peaceful and tolerant version of Islam they would be.

Which means: 1) you've been talking about Muslims all along; and 2) that you should have no problem with the vast majority of Canadian Muslims.



And no I've been talking about Islam, the religion, all along.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3637 by akiberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:01 pm

interesting read.
and the author... is a muslim. I know that doesn't make him an expert like piggy but I'm still going to give him a little bit of latitude.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3638 by tbm » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:18 pm

He's (Tarek Fatah) a good follow on the twatter aki imo. Wastes no time dancing around the subject. Apparently had his life threatened for speaking about what he does.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3639 by tbm » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:23 pm

Another good read aki, from another Muslim on this subject.

Dr Ahmed is a former SBS journalist who has also previously been a member of the federal government's Australian Multicultural Council.

The 42-year-old psychiatrist, who has a practice in Sydney's west and visits prisons, called on the ABC to be wary of airing so-called moderate Muslims who downplayed the link between Islam and terrorism.

'There has been too much promotion of so called moderate voices of Islam who usually turn out be apologists for terrorism, desperate to dilute any link between terrorism and Islam and promoting a message of Muslim victimhood,' he said.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ABC.html
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3640 by clawfirst » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:48 pm

Lol vf. The tickets were only 12 bucks. Thats value even if i don't show up
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3641 by vonbonds » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:35 pm

Wtf is going on in here? This thread made my dick fall off and I didn't want my dick to fall off. Thanks Canada!
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3642 by clawfirst » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:14 pm

Western canadian conservatives are essentially texan centurists
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3643 by clawfirst » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:15 pm

With less guns. So we dont let them win or feel vindicated through fear
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3644 by vf » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:49 am

clawfirst wrote:Lol vf. The tickets were only 12 bucks. Thats value even if i don't show up


They haven't set up the event yet here, but, it'll probably be about the same. Should be a great show. They're playing a tiny club here, holds about 150 max.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3645 by clawfirst » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:17 am

Yep. Excited. Probably buy some shirts and shit as there is no way theyll make any money on these
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3646 by vf » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:18 pm

They're playing a Thursday here, but, I've already booked that Friday off.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3647 by stoney » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:47 pm

vf wrote:They're playing a Thursday here, but, I've already booked that Friday off.


I missed the part about who you're seeing here....possibly the first thing I've wanted to read in this thread for days...
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3648 by vf » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:41 pm

Anciients and Dead Quiet on tour in August. Opeth style death/prog and stoner metal, but, more upbeat then most of it.
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3649 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:now I'm wondering who claimed otherwise.

are people from all faiths and walks of life equally shitty?

I did not say that, did I? My point is that tbm is building his case solely on anecdotes, that he is cherry-picking those anecdotes, and that a person can use anecdotes to link almost any group to extremism. tbm's invoking these anecdotes to argue that Islam is incompatible with the rest of the world, in which he's including Canada. He has ignored data that shows that more than 80% of Canadian Muslims express a profound love for our country, its democracy, its freedoms, and its way of life, indicating that Islam as practiced by mainstream Canadian Muslims is compatible with Canada. He is trying to refute this by posting a handful of stories about extremist Canadian Muslims, when I or anyone else could just as easily find as many stories about hate crimes and hate speech committed by non-Muslim Canadians against Muslim Canadians.

where is this from?

Edit: sorry, should have just kept reading the thread
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Re: *NSFW* - Professor Dickman's Office Hours and Sometimes Leafs Lounge. Virgin 4.0

Post #3650 by clawfirst » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Probably a bunch who watched a family member be stoned to death or hanged

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