ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

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ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:28 pm



Thank fuck. brown deserves to be on that line
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #2 by MonkeyWrench » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:34 pm

Which smith?

Brown will take that spot and roll with it. Thought they'd recall Laich.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #3 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:39 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:Which smith?

Brown will take that spot and roll with it. Thought they'd recall Laich.

ben smith, the scrub they had last year after the TDL. he's okay, good PKer, but don't see why he needed to be picked up.

griffith was on the 4th line at practice though so let's see what happens with that.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #4 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:04 pm

The youth movement has been embraced whole-heartedly by management. I have to admit, I still thought they would favour some of these vets over the younger players who can play at a higher level, simply because of respect and honour (I know that Lou isn't Burkie but there are some similarities).

So we claim Smith, have Griffith practicing on a real line, Brown is practicing with Kadri's line and Leivo had his first team practice too. Somebody else is going to need to be sent down when Leivo comes off IR, right?
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #5 by mooseOAK » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:18 pm

Michalek lost pretty much every puck battle so this isn't very surprising.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #6 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:07 pm

mooseOAK wrote:Michalek lost pretty much every puck battle so this isn't very surprising.

yeah, his legs are done.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #7 by vf » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:15 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:The youth movement has been embraced whole-heartedly by management. I have to admit, I still thought they would favour some of these vets over the younger players who can play at a higher level, simply because of respect and honour (I know that Lou isn't Burkie but there are some similarities).

Somebody else is going to need to be sent down when Leivo comes off IR, right?



Yes. Logic would dictate they drop to 7 Dmen, but, who knows. #PrayforHunwick
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #8 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:26 pm

Man the temperature around this move from the fanbase was stupidly hot today. Brown is somehow a slug, and they should be putting Marner with Kadri. There is a gap in talent between Marner and Brown, but some are making it seem like the grand canyon, which it definitely is not.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #9 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:27 pm

Who would have thought I'd rather have Polak than Hunwick on the team when we made the signing over the summer? :rudy:
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #10 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:39 pm

LeafErikson wrote:Man the temperature around this move from the fanbase was stupidly hot today. Brown is somehow a slug, and they should be putting Marner with Kadri. There is a gap in talent between Marner and Brown, but some are making it seem like the grand canyon, which it definitely is not.


I think Brown's a good fit for the match-up line. He forechecks well, has a decent nose for the net and isn't useless offensively while having some semblance of a two-way game. The role he's suited for isn't that much different than what we'd want Michalek to do if he wasn't held together with duct tape when we got him. He has pro experience and while he's only had a cup of coffee at the NHL level, it's not like he's Marner who's a first-year pro.

Brown has offensive abilities but isn't the straw that stirs the drink the way Mitch is. For that reason, it doesn't make sense to me to have Brown be on a sheltered line while Mitch gets buried in the defensive zone against other teams' best players. That's like Carlyle usage of Kessel (in terms of pure zone starts), and nobody liked that shit. Mitch has looked great to start the season, why fuck with that? Especially when Bozak and JvR need a kick in the pants to get going (they've been getting better each game), Mitch fills a nice need on that line.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #11 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:49 pm

Apparently Dougie Hamilton is available.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #12 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:51 pm

LeafErikson wrote:Man the temperature around this move from the fanbase was stupidly hot today. Brown is somehow a slug, and they should be putting Marner with Kadri. There is a gap in talent between Marner and Brown, but some are making it seem like the grand canyon, which it definitely is not.

Who is saying this? From what I've seen most people are quite happy with Brown being put on Kadri's wing. Then again I don't bother with the retards who comment on the Leafs & TSN Facebook pages or Yahoo and TSN articles or whatever, this is just what I've seen on reddit and the MLHS, PPP blogs.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #13 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:04 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
LeafErikson wrote:Man the temperature around this move from the fanbase was stupidly hot today. Brown is somehow a slug, and they should be putting Marner with Kadri. There is a gap in talent between Marner and Brown, but some are making it seem like the grand canyon, which it definitely is not.

Who is saying this? From what I've seen most people are quite happy with Brown being put on Kadri's wing. Then again I don't bother with the retards who comment on the Leafs & TSN Facebook pages or Yahoo and TSN articles or whatever, this is just what I've seen on reddit and the MLHS, PPP blogs.


twatters.. and some of the ones complaining are either bloggers from those sites you mention, or frequent readers/contributors. It's not a large group, but the hand wringing over this is way overboard.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #14 by vf » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:07 pm

I'm glad I don't pay attention to any of that stuff.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #15 by Curry Rage » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:08 pm

It always is.
*Buy Oil Stocks!*
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #16 by akiberg » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:18 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:Who would have thought I'd rather have Polak than Hunwick on the team when we made the signing over the summer? :rudy:

the san jose sharks?
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #17 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:34 pm

LeafErikson wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:
LeafErikson wrote:Man the temperature around this move from the fanbase was stupidly hot today. Brown is somehow a slug, and they should be putting Marner with Kadri. There is a gap in talent between Marner and Brown, but some are making it seem like the grand canyon, which it definitely is not.

Who is saying this? From what I've seen most people are quite happy with Brown being put on Kadri's wing. Then again I don't bother with the retards who comment on the Leafs & TSN Facebook pages or Yahoo and TSN articles or whatever, this is just what I've seen on reddit and the MLHS, PPP blogs.


twatters.. and some of the ones complaining are either bloggers from those sites you mention, or frequent readers/contributors. It's not a large group, but the hand wringing over this is way overboard.


The anger I've seen has been towards picking up Ben Smith mainly. People are definitely going overboard though I do believe there were better internal options than Ben Smith, but oh well, he's a decent 4th liner. Haven't really seen any negativity towards Brown though. Definitely way too much bitching going on though for such a minor pickup.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #18 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:58 pm

My first thought was "couldn't they just call up Froese?" And then I went on with my life because ultimately, who cares?
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #19 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:13 pm

My take on it:

They could call up Froese since his waiver exemption period is still in effect (having cleared earlier this month), but if they like what Froese is doing with the Marlies then claiming Smith gives them pretty much the same player with the benefit of not disrupting the Marlies. If they planned on having Froese up until Leivo returned, then perhaps Froese would have required waivers again to return to the Marlies. But if Smith goes on waivers when Leivo returns and is claimed, the organization still has Froese and it doesn't matter since they picked Smith up for nothing. If Smith passes through waivers, the Marlies have better centre depth which helps in the event the Leafs need to call up someone or that they make a trade.

So, if the organization was going to call up Froese after sending Michalek down (which is what it seems like since Babs clearly wanted someone who was comfortable taking faceoffs and who can contribute to the PK), then claiming Smith makes sense.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #20 by vf » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:00 pm

The thing with that though is who takes the faceoff once Leivo is healthy? Smells like he might be on a voyage to Robidas Island for a while.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #21 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:09 pm

vf wrote:The thing with that though is who takes the faceoff once Leivo is healthy? Smells like he might be on a voyage to Robidas Island for a while.


Yeah, that's a good point. Babs gave a wink and nod response to a question about Leivo, saying he's healthy enough to return but not healthy enough to play so maybe you're right about him going on a sojourn to Robidas Island.

Maybe they think having Leivo in the lineup would compensate for that (though it would be hard to believe that Leivo would and Griffith wouldn't). Maybe they're buying time for one of Naz or Holland to be ready for PK duties. Or maybe they're working on a trade to ship out some marginal players and bring in a fourth line centre who's better than Smith. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #22 by mooseOAK » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:17 pm

They already have one, Peter Holland.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #23 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:32 pm

mooseOAK wrote:They already have one, Peter Holland.


I agree, but it seems pretty clear that either Babs, the management team, or both don't see Holland as a centre.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #24 by LeafOfBread » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:13 pm

Holland has been good as the 4C so far imo. Can't complain
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #25 by LeafErikson » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:44 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:Holland has been good as the 4C so far imo. Can't complain


He's ok, but I think I'd prefer him on the wing.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #26 by vf » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:58 pm

mooseOAK wrote:They already have one, Peter Holland.


If they intended on using him in that role I'd think Babcock would talk about Holland in that role rather the Smith.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #27 by mooseOAK » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:08 pm

Holland has been good up to now.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #28 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:43 pm

It seems like TM and LE are right because Smith is centering the 4th line tonight. Griffith looks to be a scratch again.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #29 by vf » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:45 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:It seems like TM and LE are right because Smith is centering the 4th line tonight. Griffith looks to be a scratch again.


Ahem.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #30 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:36 pm

Do you need a lozenge vf?
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #31 by WTF » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:40 pm

Maybe it's the black lung?

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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #32 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:01 pm



Closest thing to him being shot out of a cannon at this point.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #33 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:35 pm

Lol
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #34 by vf » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:30 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/793169936059203585

Closest thing to him being shot out of a cannon at this point.


Straight to Robidas Island.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #35 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:31 pm

Image
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #36 by mooseOAK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:41 pm

Thankfully Marincin gets to play instead.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #37 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:06 pm

Carrick reminds me of White, but with better instincts. I think he'll turn out into a solid D for us.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #38 by mooseOAK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:18 pm

To me, Carrick is defying the stereotype that undersized defencemen are quick and mobile.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #39 by cawbber » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:54 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Carrick reminds me of White, but with better instincts. I think he'll turn out into a solid D for us.

I like him too
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #40 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:29 pm

Carrick and Marincin have actually been very good. Most of the breakdowns have come off the rush which I attribute to learning a new system.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #41 by LeafOfBread » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:29 pm

mooseOAK wrote:Thankfully Marincin gets to play instead.

Marincin had a good game Thursday and Saturday and nobody said shit.

He was shaky yesterday but it doesn't help when retards like JvR don't know where they are supposed to be even after 8 seasons in the league.

Also Carrick was very good against Florida and had a strong game against Montreal besides the fuck up on the Weber goal.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #42 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:30 pm

Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #43 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:34 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:Thankfully Marincin gets to play instead.

Marincin had a good game Thursday and Saturday and nobody said shit.

He was shaky yesterday but it doesn't help when retards like JvR don't know where they are supposed to be even after 8 seasons in the league.

Also Carrick was very good against Florida and had a strong game against Montreal besides the fuck up on the Weber goal.


Give it a few years LOB. Same shit happened in baseball and basketball, and now certain things are just generally accepted.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #44 by clawfirst » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:45 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.

Which clearly shows the stats are still ignoring competition. Just as defensive metrics in baseball once ignored the shift....

Stop pretending to know something.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #45 by mooseOAK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:06 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:Thankfully Marincin gets to play instead.

Marincin had a good game Thursday and Saturday and nobody said shit.

He was shaky yesterday but it doesn't help when retards like JvR don't know where they are supposed to be even after 8 seasons in the league.

Also Carrick was very good against Florida and had a strong game against Montreal besides the fuck up on the Weber goal.


Marincin makes a not very hard clearing pass around the boards from the far corner which was a softball for the defenceman to pinch in on. Van Riemsdyk probably has his back to the play while their defenceman is seeing the whole thing.

Marincin is best when he is standing there and taking up a lot of space, when he has the puck on his stick you can almost see his mind lock up.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #46 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:05 am

clawfirst wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.

Which clearly shows the stats are still ignoring competition. Just as defensive metrics in baseball once ignored the shift....

Stop pretending to know something.


We've been through this already, DRS didn't ignore the shift, it just didn't penalize players for making great plays while in it. I grant you that defensive metrics are the least reliable measure in baseball over a single season, but it's still miles better than the eye test, even when used incorrectly.

Secondly, I'm not the one pretending to know something. If anything I'm admitting that most of what I thought I knew was probably incorrect or at the very least based on an incomplete set of information. And before anyone calls me a stat whore, I'm not suggesting ignoring the eye test in favour of numbers because I personally like to consult both.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #47 by LeafOfBread » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:56 am

clawfirst wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.

Which clearly shows the stats are still ignoring competition. Just as defensive metrics in baseball once ignored the shift....

Stop pretending to know something.


Should probably take your own advice.

Good thing this handy little tool exists:

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-matching/

Go through and see for yourself. Carrick spent 50%+ of his 5v5 ice time yesterday against Tavares, while against Montreal 40%+ of it was against Radulov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher and the Pacioretty line.

Marincin faces even harder competition and has been out against top lines for the majority of his time most games.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #48 by vf » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:43 am

LeafOfBread wrote:
clawfirst wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.

Which clearly shows the stats are still ignoring competition. Just as defensive metrics in baseball once ignored the shift....

Stop pretending to know something.


Should probably take your own advice.

Good thing this handy little tool exists:

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-matching/

Go through and see for yourself. Carrick spent 50%+ of his 5v5 ice time yesterday against Tavares, while against Montreal 40%+ of it was against Radulov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher and the Pacioretty line.

Marincin faces even harder competition and has been out against top lines for the majority of his time most games.



It's no different then Kadri getting harder competition then Bozak. The information exists, but, some people want to ignore it so it fits their agenda.
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #49 by mooseOAK » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:09 am

LeafOfBread wrote:
clawfirst wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Believe it or not fellas, Marincin and Polak rate as the Leafs best defensive pair by just about every defensive metric and not just this season.

Which clearly shows the stats are still ignoring competition. Just as defensive metrics in baseball once ignored the shift....

Stop pretending to know something.


Should probably take your own advice.

Good thing this handy little tool exists:

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-matching/

Go through and see for yourself. Carrick spent 50%+ of his 5v5 ice time yesterday against Tavares, while against Montreal 40%+ of it was against Radulov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher and the Pacioretty line.

Marincin faces even harder competition and has been out against top lines for the majority of his time most games.

That's a pretty good explanation for recent results.
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clawfirst
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Re: ongoing transactions fred 2016-2017

Post #50 by clawfirst » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:10 am

I dont doubt kadri faces the toughest. That's his usage.

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