ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1251 by Curry Rage » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:39 am

Some insight into Babs' thinking about the past few months and why we maybe didn't see all the young guys sooner:

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1252 by paulster » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 am

Dynrehab wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:Only 3 points back of Boston, but 4 less games to make them up. Doesn't matter though - points are important, games-in-hand are overrated.

If we say that Boston will get 6/8 points in those games, that puts us at 9 points back with 30 games left. Doable.

Last year we had games in hand on Boston forever, until we didn't and they beat us for the final divisional spot. And that was with sweeping them in the season series (all regulation wins) too.


I’d hazard a guess that 4 less games down the stretch are more beneficial than home ice advantage in game 7.


I’m gonna say that in a 7 game series none of this really matters. As long as you’re healthy, better team’s gonna win.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1253 by Philthy Thrillz » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:39 am

Curry Rage wrote:Some insight into Babs' thinking about the past few months and why we maybe didn't see all the young guys sooner:



The plan is working.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1254 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:35 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
paulster wrote:Only 3 points back of Boston, but 4 less games to make them up. Doesn't matter though - points are important, games-in-hand are overrated.

If we say that Boston will get 6/8 points in those games, that puts us at 9 points back with 30 games left. Doable.

Last year we had games in hand on Boston forever, until we didn't and they beat us for the final divisional spot. And that was with sweeping them in the season series (all regulation wins) too.


Almost half of the Leafs remaining games are against awful defensive teams, so I expect a hot streak to end the year.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1255 by Dynrehab » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:35 pm

paulster wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:
LeafOfBread wrote:Last year we had games in hand on Boston forever, until we didn't and they beat us for the final divisional spot. And that was with sweeping them in the season series (all regulation wins) too.


I’d hazard a guess that 4 less games down the stretch are more beneficial than home ice advantage in game 7.


I’m gonna say that in a 7 game series none of this really matters. As long as you’re healthy, better team’s gonna win.


I think my comment was directly related to health. 4 extra games can take a lot out of you and increase the chances of injury.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1256 by paulster » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Dynrehab wrote:
paulster wrote:
Dynrehab wrote:
I’d hazard a guess that 4 less games down the stretch are more beneficial than home ice advantage in game 7.


I’m gonna say that in a 7 game series none of this really matters. As long as you’re healthy, better team’s gonna win.


I think my comment was directly related to health. 4 extra games can take a lot out of you and increase the chances of injury.

Yeah I meant like the “home ice is huge” direction the thread had taken. Sorry for being unclear.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1257 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:32 pm

The Leafs this season with Roman Polak in the lineup 14-14-4 vs 16-4-1 without him. Obviously Polak isn't the sole difference between those records, but it's still funny to look at.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1258 by Curry Rage » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:36 pm

What are the combined records of the teams in both groups?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1259 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:54 pm

With Polak (14-4-4)

Image


Without Polak (16-4-1)

Image
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1260 by Curry Rage » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:00 pm

I mean the opponents.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1261 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:15 pm

Curry Rage wrote:I mean the opponents.


I know what you meant, but there is no way I'm taking the time to look that up.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1262 by clawfirst » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:21 pm

You used to try man.

Glad thats over
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1263 by mooseOAK » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:39 pm

Polak missed periods of time so I don’t think that qualify of competition factors in much If at all.

Tomorrow will be a physical game so I wonder if Polak and Martin will sit again.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1264 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:57 am

Josh Leivo has asked to be traded, finally.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1265 by WTF » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:50 pm

I feel for him. The guy needs a chance to play in order to prove himself but he really hasn't been given much of an opportunity to do so the past couple of years. If he's lucky, maybe Lou can find a good fit for him.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1266 by Curry Rage » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:00 pm

I'd love to find out how the coaching staff view him.

He'll catch on somewhere and pot some goals. There will be outrage.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1267 by WTF » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:05 pm

To a certain extent, management must see some value in him or he wouldn't have been protected in the expansion draft or signed to an extension. No idea what the coaching staff's perception of him is though.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1268 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:19 pm

The coaching staff was given Patrick Marleau so what could they do?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1269 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:43 pm

It will be really unfortunate if we move him for a 4th or 5th when he is arguably good enough to play in our top 9 now and costs pennies.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1270 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:47 pm

mooseOAK wrote:The coaching staff was given Patrick Marleau so what could they do?


Play him over Martin for sure, and give him some more reps in the top 9 where he thrived in limited opportunities last season. Like the rest of you I would love to know what the coaching staff thinks of him because the analytics and eye test (mine anyways) have mostly been positive.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1271 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:38 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:The coaching staff was given Patrick Marleau so what could they do?


Play him over Martin for sure, and give him some more reps in the top 9 where he thrived in limited opportunities last season. Like the rest of you I would love to know what the coaching staff thinks of him because the analytics and eye test (mine anyways) have mostly been positive.

So Martin’s 8 minutes a game is all that the coach could realistically give to Leivo.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1272 by Zardoz » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:06 pm

I have never been all that enamoured with Leivo. Never liked his skating that much, don't like his backcheck, he has a great shot and some size he barely uses. He'll do really well somewhere but i just can't get excites about him.
He's a total NJ type player.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1273 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:24 pm

My opinion is that Leivo uses his size well on the forecheck and has above average hands.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1274 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:58 am

I don't get the 'doesn't use his size' critique. Every game I've watched him in his board work was one of the aspects of his game that stood out the most. I remember last year against Winnipeg it turned into a very chippy, physical game and it was one of the best games he ever played. Him and Kadri were wreaking havoc.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1275 by Curry Rage » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:35 am

He's good in the corners. His two biggest problems are that he's not better nor more versatile than Hyman, Marleau, JVR, Leo or Kapanen. He used to get caught watching the play too much on defense and has to keep his feet moving to be effective. He also doesn't get in on the forecheck as fast as one might like, despite being good on the wall. Nor is he going to track someone down on the backcheck from a stride behind. Everyone raving about Kapanen's impact should consider this factor. Kappy changes the game by being on top of you sooner than you'd like or expect. Plus he PKs and has better numbers in the AHL at a younger age. Who sits for Leivo?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1276 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:15 am

I think in terms of where to play Leivo, I'd want Komarov to play C over Moore and have Leivo on the left. Obviously that's not gonna happen though, but it would be a pretty sweet 4th line IMO.

FWIW, Leivo's agent said this:

"Josh is a player who would stand in front of a train for the Toronto Maple Leafs," Pulver said. "Josh was drafted by the Leafs and he wants to be a long-time Leaf. He would love to be in the lineup Monday night, and every night thereafter. Having said that, he hasn't been in the lineup for a long time, and hasn't played much in the past two seasons. He has reached a point in his career where he simply needs to play regularly.

"Lou Lamoriello has had open lines of communication with Josh on this issue. Not unexpectedly, the Maple Leafs in general and Lou in particular have been nothing but first class."


So it's more of 'play me or trade me' rather than just a straight up 'trade me'.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1277 by MonkeyWrench » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:02 am

Makes sense. I definitely feel for him. Unless he can PK, or Leo gets injured, I don't forsee him getting into the lineup.

It's a noteworthy topic, but how this Leivo thing is up to 22 freaking pages on boredz, I don't know.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1278 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am

MonkeyWrench wrote:Makes sense. I definitely feel for him. Unless he can PK, or Leo gets injured, I don't forsee him getting into the lineup.

It's a noteworthy topic, but how this Leivo thing is up to 22 freaking pages on boredz, I don't know.

When you take the extreme side of the 'management is infallible' crowd and pit them against the other extreme of arm-chair coaches you get a pretty volatile discussion to say the least.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1279 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:12 pm

I really hope we keep him because next season we could be minus JVR and Komarov, and at that point cheap depth becomes very important.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1280 by paulster » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:30 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I really hope we keep him because next season we could be minus JVR and Komarov, and at that point cheap depth becomes very important.


Easy to replace.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1281 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 pm

^ Not at under 2M
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1282 by clawfirst » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:10 pm

He hasnt actually done anything in the nhl az.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1283 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:18 pm

clawfirst wrote:He hasnt actually done anything in the nhl az.


His goal totals, P/60 and possession numbers have all been very good actually. He just needs an opportunity.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1284 by clawfirst » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:20 pm

Or as with many NHLers...they get more reps and less production
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1285 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:37 pm

clawfirst wrote:Or as with many NHLers...they get more reps and less production


The most opportunity he has gotten was last year with the Kadri line, and that is when he looked the best. Obviously nothing is a guarantee claw, but thus far Leivo has produced at every level when given opportunity. It would be a shame to waste this much development on a guy like that and lose him for peanuts.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1286 by LeafOfBread » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:31 pm

Borgman to the Marlies.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1287 by clawfirst » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:41 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
clawfirst wrote:Or as with many NHLers...they get more reps and less production


The most opportunity he has gotten was last year with the Kadri line, and that is when he looked the best. Obviously nothing is a guarantee claw, but thus far Leivo has produced at every level when given opportunity. It would be a shame to waste this much development on a guy like that and lose him for peanuts.

If hes traded for picks/player who has waiver exemption its just the cycle of a healthy farm system. Development isnt linear and this Marleau guy just kind of showed up out of nowhere....

Would you trade Leivo for marleau and 3 mill cap plus...cause thats what happened.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1288 by LeafOfBread » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Seems like Freddie is okay :celtic2_1barca:

Also





Lol
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1289 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:25 pm

LOL that is so Jake.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1290 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:27 pm

clawfirst wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
clawfirst wrote:Or as with many NHLers...they get more reps and less production


The most opportunity he has gotten was last year with the Kadri line, and that is when he looked the best. Obviously nothing is a guarantee claw, but thus far Leivo has produced at every level when given opportunity. It would be a shame to waste this much development on a guy like that and lose him for peanuts.

If hes traded for picks/player who has waiver exemption its just the cycle of a healthy farm system. Development isnt linear and this Marleau guy just kind of showed up out of nowhere....

Would you trade Leivo for marleau and 3 mill cap plus...cause thats what happened.


He still could have played Martin's role this year, and moved up into the top 9 next year. I honestly don't see much of a difference between Brown and Leivo. As for Marleau, obviously I would rather have him, his defensive impact has been invaluable.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1291 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Guys, I still can't shake the feeling that Zaitsev really doesn't know where to be in his own zone. Though, it could be that he's a poor communicator (our defense seems generally to be very bad at this) It seems like it doesn't matter who he plays with there are lots of miscues where he and his partner end up on the same side of the ice, covering the same guy, etc. Am I seeing things or does anyone else notice this too?
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1292 by MonkeyWrench » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:30 pm

As soon as he receives the puck to start the breakout, aswell as his simplistic offensive zone approach, I don't mind him. However when he's the first one that intercepts the forecheck, it's often a little messy. Kinda like Jake. Hainsey and Dermott are the only two dmen at this moment that I feel very confident in countering the forecheck. He needs someone else to do the dirty work, or at very least be capable of it. Rielly/Dermott perhaps.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1293 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:56 pm

I'm becoming more concerned with Hainsey, his numbers have cratered as the season has gone on and it's starting to show up in the eye test. I think the heavy minutes he has played, both at ES and on the PK this year are starting to wear on him.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1294 by LeafOfBread » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:08 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I'm becoming more concerned with Hainsey, his numbers have cratered as the season has gone on and it's starting to show up in the eye test. I think the heavy minutes he has played, both at ES and on the PK this year arI thie starting to wear on him.

I think he came back too soon to be honest. Yeah it was 'just' the flu and not a big injury but this year's flu has been pretty fucked up, definitely the most aggressive strand in recent memory. Got sick a week and a half ago and am only really recovered now. Everyone around me has been catching it too and the symptoms have been lingering pretty hard rather than going away in a standard 3-4 days. Even my dad who has the immune system of a god and hasn't had the flu in years got it this time around.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1295 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:43 pm

The flu this year has been terrible, it's a miracle I haven't contracted it because my entire family and most of my colleagues at work have fallen victim the past few weeks.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1296 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:46 pm

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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1297 by clawfirst » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:53 pm

Its not that interesting
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1298 by Curry Rage » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 pm

clawfirst wrote:Its not that interesting

The wild contextless conclusions being drawn from it are fascinating.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1299 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:18 pm

According to Craig Button the Leafs don't have a single top 50 prospects despite having the best team in the AHL... People criticize Pronman, but at least he has a system, and is consistent with ranking players by skill level. I don't know what the hell Button's criteria is, and his past lists look even worst in hindsight.
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Re: ongoing 2017-2018 season discussion

Post #1300 by clawfirst » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:29 pm

Now for your home work compare big blues lists to button. I expect a seven page report by sunday

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