Buy low trade options for this offseason

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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #101 by Curry Rage » Mon May 14, 2018 11:57 am

I don't see any point moving Gardiner.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #102 by AGENT ZERO » Mon May 14, 2018 12:23 pm

The dream off-season for me is signing JT, trading for Pysyk/Tanev and promoting: Holl, Leivo, Altonen/Lindholm and Sparks next season.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Brown
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Leivo - Altonen - Kapanen

Rielly - Pysyk
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey
Holl

Andersen
Sparks
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #103 by AGENT ZERO » Mon May 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Curry Rage wrote:I don't see any point moving Gardiner.


It's funny because most of the people pushing this agenda also acknowledge that the Leafs need to upgrade defensively. Not pointing the finger at you PT, making a lateral move for a RHD makes sense though I don't think it's realistic without downgrading.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #104 by Thomas Malthus » Mon May 14, 2018 12:56 pm

I think Gardiner is a very good defenseman and a very reasonable contract. The problem is that he's only got one more year left and that's going to take a big chunk of his value with him. Anyone who's trading for one year of Gardiner is probably a contender and isn't likely to be interested in giving up a top four defender in return. Because they are in such short supply, an equally valuable righty is probably a worse player than Jake (I think this is AZ's point).

That said, even for a slight downgrade on Jake I might consider moving him because a) the drop off from Gardiner to Dermott might not be a large as the gain from Hainsey to the new player since the right side is starting from such a shitty position the marginal benefit to its improvement is significant; and b) multiple years of a slightly less good right D on a reasonable contract ma be more valuable than one more season of Gardiner (depending on which Jake you think shows up next year, the length of the incoming payer's contract, and how large of a drop off in talent there is). I would also consider moving Jake for a package if it included a guy like Andersson/Fox/Honka as the main piece coming back.

Also, pulingl Mascherin from Florida and ink him to an ELC so that he doesn't go back into the draft would be a pretty good move.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #105 by Curry Rage » Mon May 14, 2018 3:24 pm

I think we'll probably see him get another contract here. Why would they want to drop a guy they've put that much time into and looks nice on the stat sheet? And why would he want to fuck off elsewhere for money just when this team is getting good. He drives me nuts sometimes, but I recognise the contribution he makes.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #106 by Whit Dickman » Mon May 14, 2018 3:31 pm

I don't see why it's a foregone conclusion for Jake to walk after next year
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #107 by Curry Rage » Mon May 14, 2018 3:37 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:I don't see why it's a foregone conclusion for Jake to walk after next year


I didn't mean to suggest that if I did. I meant that I don't see them trading him and I see him re-signing given the terms can be settled.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #108 by mooseOAK » Mon May 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:I don't see why it's a foregone conclusion for Jake to walk after next year

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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #109 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon May 14, 2018 4:18 pm

paulster wrote:Re-up Lupul.


I think Gardiner is held in much higher regard among GMs than here. I bet he could land a solid return.


That would be great.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #110 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon May 14, 2018 4:39 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:I don't see any point moving Gardiner.


It's funny because most of the people pushing this agenda also acknowledge that the Leafs need to upgrade defensively. Not pointing the finger at you PT, making a lateral move for a RHD makes sense though I don't think it's realistic without downgrading.


I want a shuffling of the chairs kind of trade. In terms of value anyway. We also have a plethora of wingers to turn the "downgrade" into an "upgrade".

The biggest need easily for the Leafs, is a partner for Mo. Even if the player isn't quite as good, it could make Mo that much better.

I do think Gards holds enough value to get a good partner for Mo. (With a small add) I'd aim for a righty maybe overpaid by a little bit, with 2-4 years of term.

Dermott will replace Gardiner
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #111 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon May 14, 2018 4:41 pm

A mean prick that can skate and has a good first pass.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #112 by AGENT ZERO » Mon May 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:I don't see why it's a foregone conclusion for Jake to walk after next year


I think some of us are working under the dream scenario that a high priced RHD/JT will be added meaning someone has to go, and given the emergence of Dermott and the fact that Gardiner has only 1 year left it makes sense that he would be the one to walk. Of course if no marquee players are added it makes 0 sense not to re-sign him.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #113 by AGENT ZERO » Mon May 14, 2018 4:55 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Curry Rage wrote:I don't see any point moving Gardiner.


It's funny because most of the people pushing this agenda also acknowledge that the Leafs need to upgrade defensively. Not pointing the finger at you PT, making a lateral move for a RHD makes sense though I don't think it's realistic without downgrading.


I want a shuffling of the chairs kind of trade. In terms of value anyway. We also have a plethora of wingers to turn the "downgrade" into an "upgrade".

The biggest need easily for the Leafs, is a partner for Mo. Even if the player isn't quite as good, it could make Mo that much better.

I do think Gards holds enough value to get a good partner for Mo. (With a small add) I'd aim for a righty maybe overpaid by a little bit, with 2-4 years of term.

Dermott will replace Gardiner


That's fair, though I think it will be hard with Gardiner's term. Stranger things have happened though.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #114 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon May 14, 2018 10:19 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
It's funny because most of the people pushing this agenda also acknowledge that the Leafs need to upgrade defensively. Not pointing the finger at you PT, making a lateral move for a RHD makes sense though I don't think it's realistic without downgrading.


I want a shuffling of the chairs kind of trade. In terms of value anyway. We also have a plethora of wingers to turn the "downgrade" into an "upgrade".

The biggest need easily for the Leafs, is a partner for Mo. Even if the player isn't quite as good, it could make Mo that much better.

I do think Gards holds enough value to get a good partner for Mo. (With a small add) I'd aim for a righty maybe overpaid by a little bit, with 2-4 years of term.

Dermott will replace Gardiner


That's fair, though I think it will be hard with Gardiner's term. Stranger things have happened though.



Ya that's a concern. Maybe there's a scenario where a rebuilding team wouldn't mind dumping some salary, or better yet a cap team.

Any cap teams with too many right d?

At the draft we could do a Gardiner+Bracco+pick
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #115 by Thomas Malthus » Tue May 15, 2018 12:22 pm

Apparently everyone on Carolina is available except Aho.

TvR actually looks like a pretty good player who could be somewhat inexpensive.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #116 by AGENT ZERO » Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Slavin please, he will cost alot, but i still think it will be less than hes actually worth. That is the #1 D we need and he is cost controlled. I would probably even flip Nylander for him although I would obviously push for a package deal instead.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #117 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue May 15, 2018 1:49 pm

I wouldn't trade Willy. We have a chance at getting him on an avv around 6 mill. That could be huge for us. Too risky.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #118 by AGENT ZERO » Tue May 15, 2018 2:53 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:I wouldn't trade Willy. We have a chance at getting him on an avv around 6 mill. That could be huge for us. Too risky.


Slavin is one of the best defenders in hockey, and massively underrated. If he played for the Leafs he would be talked about like Vlasic. Pesce is really good too, and plays the right side. If I were Dubas I would be making calls on both.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #119 by AGENT ZERO » Tue May 15, 2018 2:55 pm

Also Slavin is signed for 5.3M for the next 7 years. Only Mark Schiefele has a better contract IMO.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #120 by Curry Rage » Tue May 15, 2018 3:47 pm

Much like Pickles, I don't look at a guy like that as a #1. Not enough offensive juice. Obviously a great player to have.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #121 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue May 15, 2018 4:16 pm

Willy is gonna go beast mode. I see a Kadri like progression with Willy. On another tier. Kessel potential.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #122 by AGENT ZERO » Tue May 15, 2018 4:20 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Much like Pickles, I don't look at a guy like that as a #1. Not enough offensive juice. Obviously a great player to have.


Slavin may not put up the raw point totals, but he drives play like a #1 at ES.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #123 by Curry Rage » Tue May 15, 2018 4:26 pm

Usually when people say "drives play" they're talking about Corsiwicks. I would be vary wary of taking anyone on CAR using Corsiwicks as my prime mode of evaluation given that the team was historically very good at that under Peters. But, despite that, they didn't score or win much. The old cause and effect problem.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #124 by Thomas Malthus » Tue May 15, 2018 4:55 pm

I like Slavin and it seems that his defensive metrics show well. He put up 30 points while getting like 30 seconds of PP time a night, that's like Rielly last year. The GAR and WAR metrics have Slavin as being marginally better or worse than Rielly depending on which one you use (and marginally better or a lot better than Gardiner). If Dermott's next season is just 82 games of him playing like he did in his stint with the Leafs then Slavin would be marginally better than Dermott and Dermott would be right around Gardiner and Rielly.

All of that to say, unless you're planning on playing Rielly or Dermott on their weak sides why trade for Slavin? Especially when there are bargain guys out there to be had. I'd explore it but I'm not a fan of moving Nylander for him. Aside from Nylander having more to give, another reason to be wary about trading him right now is that if he can play centre his value is much higher. On top of that, the right side is bad, no question but so is our centre depth. Losing Nylander hurts our centre depth and flexibility even more, especially if we don't land Tavares.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #125 by Curry Rage » Tue May 15, 2018 5:07 pm

Well, yeah. I didn't even want to get into the lunacy of moving Nylander now.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #126 by LeafOfBread » Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Usually when people say "drives play" they're talking about Corsiwicks. I would be vary wary of taking anyone on CAR using Corsiwicks as my prime mode of evaluation given that the team was historically very good at that under Peters. But, despite that, they didn't score or win much. The old cause and effect problem.

IMO Carolina was one more star forward and decent goalie away from becoming at least a playoff team. They invested in Darling and it failed miserably.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #127 by paulster » Tue May 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Willy is gonna go beast mode. I see a Kadri like progression with Willy. On another tier. Kessel potential.


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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #128 by Whit Dickman » Wed May 16, 2018 12:39 am

No way we can afford to lose JVR, Bozie, AND Nylander in one off season. Not happening.

I'd rather Pesce
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #129 by AGENT ZERO » Wed May 16, 2018 8:07 am

Carolina is way deeper on the left side, but if Pesce can be had for a reasonable price by all means.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #130 by Whit Dickman » Wed May 16, 2018 10:47 am

What about Faulk? He seems the most likely to move and the cheapest
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #131 by AGENT ZERO » Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 am

Whit Dickman wrote:What about Faulk? He seems the most likely to move and the cheapest


The problem with Faulk is that he is nearing FA, and is more of what we already have. An offensive minded defenceman who struggles away from the puck.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #132 by cawbber » Wed May 16, 2018 10:29 pm

Curry Rage wrote:Much like Pickles, I don't look at a guy like that as a #1. Not enough offensive juice. Obviously a great player to have.

Pickles are delicious
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #133 by cawbber » Wed May 16, 2018 10:30 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Also Slavin is signed for 5.3M for the next 7 years. Only Mark Schiefele has a better contract IMO.

Only future Leafs John Tavares and Erik Karlsson had better contracts
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #134 by AGENT ZERO » Wed May 16, 2018 11:25 pm

cawbber wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Also Slavin is signed for 5.3M for the next 7 years. Only Mark Schiefele has a better contract IMO.

Only future Leafs John Tavares and Erik Karlsson had better contracts


Facts

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