Buy low trade options for this offseason

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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #51 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:41 pm

The thing I like about JT is he is free and gives us a one two punch down the middle that rivals the best. It also gives us an expendable center that wiil net a very very good RD that fills a great need.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #52 by Craig » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:44 pm

Also it's 81 million dollars plus a backup goalie plus 13th forward and 7th d when the cap is only projected to go up to 82 at most. It doesn't fit.

Well, I guess there's another year of maybe cap increases to come. It might fit.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #53 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:47 pm

Craig wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:No reason you can't do both. The thing I like about JT besides the obvious is that he is the type of player who tends to age very well because he isn't reliant on elite speed or athleticism. He dominated junior as a below average skater who could kill you blue-line in, and he is so good that even when he loses a couple of steps he figures to be an impact player. Plus he is an incredibly hard worker by all accounts, that is someone you give term and dollars too.


You can't keep multiple 11 million forwards on the roster. The ducks have tried it with a pretty good complimentary core all things considered and it hasn't worked. Even in PT's dream scenario, he's spending 9 million on his bottom 6 combined, in a league where decent 3rd liners make like 4 million. His bottom pairing is garbage too, and that team pretty much by definition has no depth to survive injuries.

Claw is right. Besides, why the fuck would anyone look at this team and think the thing it needs is another high profile offensive player? The 11 million you want to give to JT to pay second fiddle to Matthews and to rob Nylander or Marner of PP time could literally get you a couple of top 4 d that are actually needed.


Have you noticed the serious depth of the players being developed by the the Leafs? It will easily offset two big contracts.

Second fiddle? Meh. Put them all on the same PP.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #54 by clawfirst » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:48 pm

Any blowing load money goes to a real #1 D man
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #55 by clawfirst » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Doughty is the idea of a guy i want...but not him
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #56 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:53 pm

Craig wrote:Also it's 81 million dollars plus a backup goalie plus 13th forward and 7th d when the cap is only projected to go up to 82 at most. It doesn't fit.

Well, I guess there's another year of maybe cap increases to come. It might fit.



This is a going all in scenario. The Leafs would be stupid to not go for it. They should be 100% all over this. Its free and doable. Whats the worst that could happen. You sign an elite top center and end up having to trade a great player for great future assets. Cry me a river.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #57 by clawfirst » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:04 pm

Cept it doesnt work that way. You get a soft return on said asset
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #58 by clawfirst » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:06 pm

I like the idea of jt but am not smart enough to make it work realistically. Neither are you imo. I hope there is a way
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #59 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:18 pm

Realistcally a pylon could ride Matthews and JT to a cup. Good thing we have the smartz guys to figure out how to really make that work.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #60 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:01 am

Craig wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:No reason you can't do both. The thing I like about JT besides the obvious is that he is the type of player who tends to age very well because he isn't reliant on elite speed or athleticism. He dominated junior as a below average skater who could kill you blue-line in, and he is so good that even when he loses a couple of steps he figures to be an impact player. Plus he is an incredibly hard worker by all accounts, that is someone you give term and dollars too.


You can't keep multiple 11 million forwards on the roster. The ducks have tried it with a pretty good complimentary core all things considered and it hasn't worked. Even in PT's dream scenario, he's spending 9 million on his bottom 6 combined, in a league where decent 3rd liners make like 4 million. His bottom pairing is garbage too, and that team pretty much by definition has no depth to survive injuries.

Claw is right. Besides, why the fuck would anyone look at this team and think the thing it needs is another high profile offensive player? The 11 million you want to give to JT to pay second fiddle to Matthews and to rob Nylander or Marner of PP time could literally get you a couple of top 4 d that are actually needed.


The Ducks are an odd example for a few reasons. The first is that they have an internal cap, so allocating a large sum of money on two players is going to be even more restrictive than it otherwise would be. Second, the Ducks have been a contender for a number of years, and if not for employing the worst head coach in the NHL would probably have fared better the past few seasons. Third, and perhaps most importantly, is that one of the players they bet big on (Corey Perry) turned into a pumpkin. It goes without saying that if JT ages like Perry we will be worst off for it.

As for your second point, I agree that it makes more sense to go after a D all things being equal. Unfortunately, there are no defenseman on the open market that are equal or similar to JT. At the end of the day a goal scored equals a goal saved, and JT adds more goals than any defender on the open market saves goals. Furthermore, we are weak down the middle after Kadri and Matthews so the upgrade isn't a marginal one.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #61 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:04 am

clawfirst wrote:I like the idea of jt but am not smart enough to make it work realistically. Neither are you imo. I hope there is a way


It's not terribly complicated, you have to let all of our UFA's walk this summer, trade Zaitsev next year or let Gardiner walk and LTIR/Trade Marleau in year three of his deal. Frankly, I think most of these things are apart of the plan with or without JT, Gardiner/Zaitsev being the only exceptions.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #62 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:07 am

clawfirst wrote:Any blowing load money goes to a real #1 D man


There are no #1D available this summer, and next year when there are (maybe) the Leafs cap situation becomes far more restrictive.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #63 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:24 pm

There are never #1 D available until one is
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #64 by vonbonds » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:10 pm

What do you guys think of Carlson?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #65 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:16 pm

vonbonds wrote:What do you guys think of Carlson?

What year is it?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #66 by vonbonds » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:18 pm

clawfirst wrote:
vonbonds wrote:What do you guys think of Carlson?

What year is it?

I love role play. Let’s pretend Trump isn’t president
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #67 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:20 pm

What if i told you he wasnt
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #68 by vonbonds » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:35 pm

What if I told you it really doesn’t matter who is
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #69 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:53 pm

vonbonds wrote:What do you guys think of Carlson?


Please God no
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #70 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:57 pm

vonbonds wrote:What if I told you it really doesn’t matter who is

Yes
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #71 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:59 pm

I want someone who can take a hit, give a hit and kinda gives a shit. Who is that
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #72 by vonbonds » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:10 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vonbonds wrote:What do you guys think of Carlson?


Please God no

Why not?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #73 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:20 pm

vonbonds wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vonbonds wrote:What do you guys think of Carlson?


Please God no

Why not?


Washington doesn't use him in a shut down role. He is another offensive minded defenceman that is suspect without the puck, only he is going to cost top dollars and term. Fuck that.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #74 by vonbonds » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:25 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vonbonds wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Please God no

Why not?


Washington doesn't use him in a shut down role. He is another offensive minded defenceman that is suspect without the puck, only he is going to cost top dollars and term. Fuck that.

That have a better defense than NJ. I’d take him in a heartbeat as he’s better than all but one of our turdmonsters
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #75 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:28 pm

There are alot of players that are upgrades on what we have that won't cost what Carlson will. I have no interest in paying a #2 defenceman like a franchise defender.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #76 by Geo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:38 pm

- I don't think Tavares will be worth his next contract.

- Like Carlson, always have, but he is going to get a major, major payday as the top UFA defenseman on the market. Way too rich.

- JVR is going to get paid too, though not to that extent. Worried about losing the regular season goals, but ultimately okay with moving on.

- Not sure what to think about Bozie Bozak. But there are younger and cheaper options in UFA Riley Nash from Bruins (worse on face-offs though), and/or looking back into Glendening from the Red Wings, among other possibilities.

- What the Leafs decide to do down the middle by the start of next season, that's the real question this offseason. Plekanec?

- The big question though remains defense. I wasn't a cheerleader for moving JVR and Bozak for assets in this season, but I'm cool with trading Gardiner to get something worthwhile this offseason. Hopefully in a trade getting a defenseman back that the Leafs want to work with, Gards is going to move on anyway as a free agent next offseason anyway.

- Thanks for some good seasons, Komarov. Best of luck to you with your new team(s).
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #77 by paulster » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:39 am

Probably the best feeling I have is confidence that the front office knows what they’re doing and will make the right moves given the circumstances.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #78 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:30 am

I maintain that the Leafs are the easiest team to improve in the top 10. Even a couple of competent RHD will improve this roster, all star calibre RHD put us over the top.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #79 by MonkeyWrench » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:21 pm

NJ willing to go all in money wise.
https://www.tsn.ca/devils-gm-shero-clea ... -1.1068643

I think JVR has many suitors that are willing to pay him market value.

I'm not sure what his advanced numbers say, or if he'll even be moved at the end of the Caps season, but I'm a big Nisakanen fan. He's got a 15 team NTC this year, which switches to a 10 team NTC for 18/19. He's their SH horse along with Orpik. Not as much of a SH horse as Hainsey tho in terms of icetime. Nobody is. Hainsey leads the league with 3:59/gm.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #80 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:32 pm

I really like Matt Niskanen, but he is going to be 32 in December, and is signed for three more years at 5.75M/per. I think Washington would have to eat at least a million or take a soft return for it to really make sense.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #81 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:34 pm

I know I've said this before, but I'd really like to make a trade for Mark Pysyk, he can be a second pairing horse and doesn't cost much in terms of cap which will enable us to go out and sign/trade for another RHD because IMO we need 2.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #82 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:21 pm

I really don't know why Florida would move him.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #83 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:06 pm

We need D that can make passes with the system Babs employs.

Dermott is good at skating amd passing and so is Mo. But we need elite passers. So with that criteria, who should we target?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #84 by Thomas Malthus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:09 pm

A system that doesn’t require so many elite passers...
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #85 by WTF » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:10 pm

Maybe someone can remind Babcock that we didn't draft Lidstrom?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #86 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:49 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:I really don't know why Florida would move him.


I have my reservations as to whether or not they value him as much as they should. After all, he was an analytically driven acquisition and Florida seemed to distance themselves from that last year.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #87 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:51 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:We need D that can make passes with the system Babs employs.

Dermott is good at skating amd passing and so is Mo. But we need elite passers. So with that criteria, who should we target?


Karlsson, Doughty, OEL, Hamilton, Carlson and Brodie are the best passing defenceman that could be available over the next 2 seasons.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #88 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:11 pm

A little off topic. But I have to wonder what kind of difference Kessel would have made. He's is like the perfect weapon for Babcock's blow the zone system.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #89 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:13 pm

Kessel Matthews Marner

UGH
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #90 by Thomas Malthus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:30 am

We probably don’t get Matthews with Kessel.

I looked at Pysyk before but I can’t recall too much about him other than the numbers like him. Maybe in the next little bit I’ll write up little blurbs on some guys. Blend in some scouting reports/fan season reviews/all the numbers.

Give me some names of guys you want to know more about, fellas.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #91 by AGENT ZERO » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:08 am

Riley Nash, Chris Tanev and John Carlson if you don't mind Thomas.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #92 by paulster » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:01 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:We probably don’t get Matthews with Kessel.


One more season trying to get him to back check would have done it.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #93 by cawbber » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:31 am

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Kessel Matthews Marner

UGH

I'd like to see Kappy up there at some point in the next few years.

The speed and skill of that line would be unreal.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #94 by Philthy Thrillz » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:05 am

cawbber wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:Kessel Matthews Marner

UGH

I'd like to see Kappy up there at some point in the next few years.

The speed and skill of that line would be unreal.



Ya, Kap is looking promising.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #95 by Thomas Malthus » Sun May 13, 2018 3:17 pm

What is the minimum that Dubas & co. need to do for this offseason to be successful?

If the Leafs don't sign anyone up front and try to see what they have in guys like Grundstrom, Kapanen, Johnsson and Nylander at centre, will anyone be terribly upset? What about if they don't sign or trade for anyone to play the right side but roll out one of Rielly or Dermott on their offside to push Hainsey down the lineup?

Obviously I want them to try hard for Tavares and make a trade to bring in an underrated guy to help on the blueline (ideally moving Hainsey and/or Zaitsev in the process). Tavares seems unlikely and prices for RHD are hefty, even for "underrated" guys. Plus, we need to learn whether or not Nylander is a centre long term and how high we can push some of our supporting players.

This team is good. They set franchise records this past season. I know I've been talking about major changes to the roster but how far away are they? Do we really need to overhaul the blueline or is tinkering enough? And is now the right time to push for an overhaul? Things are going to get tight as we move into the prime seasons of the big three, I don't want to fuck up the long term plan by signing players that will be deadweight then.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #96 by AGENT ZERO » Sun May 13, 2018 8:31 pm

The minimum is acquiring a top 4 RHD and replacing Polak with Holl.
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #97 by Philthy Thrillz » Sun May 13, 2018 9:06 pm

Hainsey should be pushed down to 3rd pair LD. Could swap Gardiner for a RD with a year left or two.

Rielly Gards replacement
Dermott Zaitsev
Hainsey Holl
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #98 by AGENT ZERO » Sun May 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Why would a team trade a RD for Gardiner unless it is a downgrade?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #99 by Philthy Thrillz » Sun May 13, 2018 10:46 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Why would a team trade a RD for Gardiner unless it is a downgrade?


We can add? Maybe they are looking for more offense, so a trade off for one that scores less? Maybe there's a team weaker on the left side than the right? Maybe we take the higher cap?
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Re: Buy low trade options for this offseason

Post #100 by paulster » Mon May 14, 2018 11:08 am

Re-up Lupul.


I think Gardiner is held in much higher regard among GMs than here. I bet he could land a solid return.

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