Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #251 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:23 pm

C'mon guys. This is the generation of fan that Wendel built. Fuck this game
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #252 by Zardoz » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:24 pm

DeBrusk looks like the kind of asshole who would wear a neon tank top and sunglasses to the bar and I'd have to fight him.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #253 by Zardoz » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:24 pm

DeBrusk also looks like a total coke head. I hope they're testing for that shit.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #254 by Geo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Very unfortunate time for Gardiner to have what is probably the worst postseason game of his career so far.

It was a tall order for the Leafs to come back down 3-1 by winning three straight against Boston, wish they could have pulled it off.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #255 by Honus Joglund » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Won't be sad to see JVR go. The guy doesn't have a pulse, and not in a good way.

Gardiner had the worst game of his life, which is saying something considering how bad he was In October/November. I wouldn't mind moving him to a team that prefers spreadsheets to watching the actual games.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #256 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:Fuck this team. Why did I even waste my time with this pathetic fucking bunch of dog fuckers?


It hurts, I keep telling myself one day we will win it all and it will be worth it.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #257 by Transplanted Caper » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:27 pm

"I thought he played okay" - Cherry on Andersen.

Fuck me.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #258 by stoney » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:28 pm

I was going to post something longer but I'll put as much effort in as JVR on the boards...

Nice time to shit the bed, Freddie.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #259 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:29 pm

Jake was awful, but I'm not going to give up on him after the worst game of his life. Last time we played the Bruins he was arguably our best D. Hopefully this motivates him to be the best version of himself next year. The onus is on management to plug some of these holes, it's no longer am excuse to say we are yoyng and rebuilding. Our weaknesses are obvious, half solutions and stop gaps will not suffice anymore.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #260 by Honus Joglund » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:31 pm

Andersen was fine until the fourth and fifth goals. A turnaround shot from the hashmarks, a screened deflection and a bad bounce behind the net. Not much you can do on those. Then dumb old Jake losing his man again on the sixth goal. I guess he didn't see the fourth goal and the fifth goal was a stinker.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #261 by Honus Joglund » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:32 pm

Gardiner for Brodie

Leafs need a RD. Flames need a LD. Bourky brings in his boy from Anaheim and Toronto.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #262 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:36 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Jake was awful, but I'm not going to give up on him after the worst game of his life. Last time we played the Bruins he was arguably our best D. Hopefully this motivates him to be the best version of himself next year. The onus is on management to plug some of these holes, it's no longer am excuse to say we are yoyng and rebuilding. Our weaknesses are obvious, half solutions and stop gaps will not suffice anymore.

No... In the 4-1 he blew the game.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #263 by Transplanted Caper » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 pm

The problems with the team were the same ones they were an hour ago, and will need to be addressed in the offseason. Shitty third, but I don't think you infer anything too deeply into it. McBackup was good this year, but Babs seemed hesitant to use him too often. Hopefully Sparks or Pickard earns his trust and can give Andersen some more rest next year.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #264 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:40 pm

I understand the “It was good for the team to come back and force game 7 after being down 3-1” takes but this team had the lead three different time and scored 4 goals tonight and still found a way to fucking lose. I’m angry. I’m disappointed. If it didn’t hurt so much it would be funny.

I know the future is bright but fuck you, I’m allowed to be upset.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #265 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:44 pm

Dont be angry...they arent.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #266 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:45 pm



Men. We need men.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #267 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:50 pm

Oh captain ,my captain.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #268 by PredsFan77 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:02 pm

OH NO WE SUCK AGAIN
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #269 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:09 pm

Dont hate the player hate the game
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #270 by WTF » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:39 pm



#StoodWitless

Good for him for at least taking his lumps in the post-game. Not that there was much of a choice.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #271 by Geo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:43 pm

He's not a bad guy. It's a shame.

As you said, good for him to show the character and integrity to own up to his performance.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #272 by Honus Joglund » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:53 pm

Kind of funny reading the usual spreadsheet shitheads trying to defend him on twitter. Look at this fucking guy:



Gardiner. Best player from games 1-6. Image

Rielly, Marner, Marleau, Plekanec, Andersen, Brown is your shortlist. Gardiner might struggle to crack the top 50% of the lineup.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #273 by Geo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:55 pm

That's a bad look for the statfiends. Straighten out your boy, Thomas.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #274 by AGENT ZERO » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:57 pm

Gardiner is a good player, I think he will grow from this and come back stronger. No loss is ever on one player.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #275 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:59 pm

Lol
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #276 by WTF » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:00 am

Honus Joglund wrote:Kind of funny reading the usual spreadsheet shitheads trying to defend him on twitter. Look at this fucking guy:



Gardiner. Best player from games 1-6. Image

Rielly, Marner, Marleau, Plekanec, Andersen, Brown is your shortlist. Gardiner might struggle to crack the top 50% of the lineup.


I'd lean towards Marner as our best player in the series. Didn't back down from the physical play and it was good to see how well he could produce in the postseason when isn't coming back from injury and coping with mono.

Overall, Hyman was pretty good as well and for all the shit I was giving him earlier in the season, he finished with a very good season.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #277 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:01 am

Honus Joglund wrote:Kind of funny reading the usual spreadsheet shitheads trying to defend him on twitter. Look at this fucking guy:



Gardiner. Best player from games 1-6. Image

Rielly, Marner, Marleau, Plekanec, Andersen, Brown is your shortlist. Gardiner might struggle to crack the top 50% of the lineup.


Rielly's performance in this series was overstated, he was suspect defensively and every metric as well as the eye test supports it.

It's easy to say certain players weren't good enough, but the reality is that we faced a powerhouse team and just don't have the personnel (yet) to contend. Even if we pulled this game out it would be hard to argue that we deserved it. Boston was better in almost every game.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #278 by clawfirst » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:03 am

Fair. But total beta pussy speak.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #279 by clawfirst » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:04 am

Men. We need some
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Post #280 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:06 am

clawfirst wrote:Fair. But total beta pussy speak.


I'm pretty devastated by this loss, I'm trying to talk myself off the ledge as much as anything lol
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #281 by Geo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:11 am

Tampa potentially blows the breaks off the Leafs in the second round. Leafs might have pulled another upset with Freddy though, and no matter what we would have loved to see them have a chance to compete anyways, to keep building postseason experience.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #282 by Honus Joglund » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:16 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:Rielly's performance in this series was overstated, he was suspect defensively and every metric as well as the eye test supports it.


You know as well as anyone that stats don't mean a thing until you're at least 20 games in and they really take something like 60 games to reach peak predictive power. As for eye test:



Rielly was a horse, even despite carrying a tired and battered Ron Hainsey around. At worst the Leafs second best player.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #283 by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:23 am

The -5 is unfair, cause the ENG shouldn't count as a minus and Andersen should have saved the DeBrusk goal, that was soft by the goalie.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #284 by Curry Rage » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:11 am

I haven't watched any of it. Feels like when you have to choose whether or not to click on a video about abused pets. It can only end in tears.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #285 by Curry Rage » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:14 am

Honus Joglund wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Rielly's performance in this series was overstated, he was suspect defensively and every metric as well as the eye test supports it.


You know as well as anyone that stats don't mean a thing until you're at least 20 games in and they really take something like 60 games to reach peak predictive power. As for eye test:



Rielly was a horse, even despite carrying a tired and battered Ron Hainsey around. At worst the Leafs second best player.


The eye test had Rielly sucking a bag of dicks? Time to get a new eye test. Being put into the toughest situations against the putative "best line in the league" with a broken vet for a partner will tend to make your numbers look bad. I'll take the eye test of his peers in this case too.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #286 by Curry Rage » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:26 am

Marner was the best of the trio to my eye. He fought hard, played strongly away from the puck and can make so much out of nothing. It took him a couple of games to figure out a way through the physicality they threw at him. He improved as the series went on. His defensive reads, especially picking off breakout passes, are second to none and his skill allows him to nab pucks out of the air that other guys can't. Defenders think they can make the usual play to avoid him and he finds a way to intercept. Love him.

Matthews is a patient, steady guy and he got his shots like he always does. But he'll hopefully learn from this that it takes something else to win a short series. It isn't about volume, it's about making more of fewer opportunities. He's a very competitive guy so he'll be stewing on this until next Spring.

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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #287 by mooseOAK » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:13 am

7 years of Jake Gardiner doing the same shit over and over again is enough. Get rid of him.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #288 by Zardoz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:28 am

I don't understand how people talk about Jake like he's a fucking prospect still. He is what he is.
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Post #289 by paulster » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:42 am

Curry Rage wrote:I haven't watched any of it. Feels like when you have to choose whether or not to click on a video about abused pets. It can only end in tears.


You can watch the second period.
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Post #290 by PredsFan77 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:44 am

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Post #291 by cawbber » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:06 am

Honus Joglund wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Rielly's performance in this series was overstated, he was suspect defensively and every metric as well as the eye test supports it.


You know as well as anyone that stats don't mean a thing until you're at least 20 games in and they really take something like 60 games to reach peak predictive power. As for eye test:



Rielly was a horse, even despite carrying a tired and battered Ron Hainsey around. At worst the Leafs second best player.

this is why fancy stats are dumb. they are, in themselves, overstated.
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Post #292 by cawbber » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:10 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:Gardiner is a good player, I think he will grow from this and come back stronger. No loss is ever on one player.

he's dumb as a post.

has all the raw skill you could ever want, but lacks the decision making ability to leverage those tools effectively.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #293 by cawbber » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:11 am

mooseOAK wrote:7 years of Jake Gardiner doing the same shit over and over again is enough. Get rid of him.

I nominate him as the Larry Murphy of his generation. Off with his 'ead.
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Post #294 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:35 am

Honus Joglund wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Rielly's performance in this series was overstated, he was suspect defensively and every metric as well as the eye test supports it.


You know as well as anyone that stats don't mean a thing until you're at least 20 games in and they really take something like 60 games to reach peak predictive power. As for eye test:



Rielly was a horse, even despite carrying a tired and battered Ron Hainsey around. At worst the Leafs second best player.


Rielly is a #1D, but let's not pretend like he has suddenly become great without the puck. His XGA numbers were shit all year, they have been over his career and in these playoffs. Worst even then Hainsey, I am not saying he is a bad player overall obviously, but if you are going to criticize Gardiner's defense you better do the same for Rielly, he was a pylon in games 1 and 2 and has consistently put up worst defensive metrics than Gardiner over his career. His bread and butter is what he does with the puck much like Gardiner last night notwithstanding. The Leafs need to add some players who are better away from it badly.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #295 by Philthy Thrillz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:01 am

Never been much of a fan of Gards. And its not about last game. Get rid of him for someone with a brain. Let Mo be #1 horse and build a D core that can play in there own end.

I also think this blowing the zone and the constantly throwing grenades through the neutral zone isn't playing to Gards strengths. He's an average passeer at best. He should be skating the puck everytime. We need a Kaberle level passer with this system.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #296 by WTF » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:30 am

For his own mental health, I hope Jake stays off social media for at least a week or two.
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Post #297 by Curry Rage » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:35 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:
Rielly is a #1D, but let's not pretend like he has suddenly become great without the puck. His XGA numbers were shit all year, they have been over his career and in these playoffs. Worst even then Hainsey, I am not saying he is a bad player overall obviously, but if you are going to criticize Gardiner's defense you better do the same for Rielly, he was a pylon in games 1 and 2 and has consistently put up worst defensive metrics than Gardiner over his career. His bread and butter is what he does with the puck much like Gardiner last night notwithstanding. The Leafs need to add some players who are better away from it badly.


This is less an argument about Rielly than a plea on behalf of the explanatory power of XGA. I remember when pure individual Corsi was all you needed to know about a player. My default position is that ALL defensive stats of this kind are highly contextual. Haven't seen one yet that can account for all the moving parts. A guy who gets the most ice against the best players on a team that gives up a lot of goals. Cause or effect? Depends.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #298 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:50 am

Curry Rage wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
Rielly is a #1D, but let's not pretend like he has suddenly become great without the puck. His XGA numbers were shit all year, they have been over his career and in these playoffs. Worst even then Hainsey, I am not saying he is a bad player overall obviously, but if you are going to criticize Gardiner's defense you better do the same for Rielly, he was a pylon in games 1 and 2 and has consistently put up worst defensive metrics than Gardiner over his career. His bread and butter is what he does with the puck much like Gardiner last night notwithstanding. The Leafs need to add some players who are better away from it badly.


This is less an argument about Rielly than a plea on behalf of the explanatory power of XGA. I remember when pure individual Corsi was all you needed to know about a player. My default position is that ALL defensive stats of this kind are highly contextual. Haven't seen one yet that can account for all the moving parts. A guy who gets the most ice against the best players on a team that gives up a lot of goals. Cause or effect? Depends.


Throw away numbers for a moment, Rielly has issues without the puck. He gets caught out of position alot, and when he doesn't have the puck is often hemmed in his own zone. It's just who he is, and it was the case against weaker competition. You live with it though because he generates more than he gives up and I'm fine with that, but it's annoying how he seems to escape scrutiny while Gardiner is hung for every mistake. It's Dion Phaneuf and Brian McCabe all over again.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #299 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:59 am

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Never been much of a fan of Gards. And its not about last game. Get rid of him for someone with a brain. Let Mo be #1 horse and build a D core that can play in there own end.

I also think this blowing the zone and the constantly throwing grenades through the neutral zone isn't playing to Gards strengths. He's an average passeer at best. He should be skating the puck everytime. We need a Kaberle level passer with this system.


Moving one of the three D on this team that can actually move the puck is not the answer. If you thought we were hemmed in alot before just wait till we are without Gardiner, the best move is to find someone who can cover for him as a partner.
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Re: Game 7: Your Toronto Maple Leafs v. Bahston Broons | Just Win Baby

Post #300 by Curry Rage » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:01 am

You're still begging the question of what effect context has. As a young defenseman, Rielly played on some of the worst defensive clubs in the league measured in GA. Again, cause or effect? One guy doesn't get hemmed in the zone. Rielly is one of the best D we have at moving the puck out of the zone, which stops the team being hemmed in.

This year, the team finally jumped up the standings to be respectable in GA. And while Rielly's individual numbers might be awful, I seem to recall he played some of the worst minutes in the league. I'm not shocked the puck went in the net a lot with him on the ice. Every team gets scored on. If you're the guy the coach chooses to put out there to defend the best scorers, it's going to happen to you more than other guys simply because of averages.
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