The Hero You Deserve

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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #51 by mooseOAK » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:30 pm

Big Susf wrote:Congrats guys. Best centre duo in the NHL


Make that trio.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #52 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:04 am

The replies on this are fucking legendary.



Isles and their fans are a dumpster fire.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #53 by shredz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:06 am

mooseOAK wrote:
Big Susf wrote:Congrats guys. Best centre duo in the NHL


Make that trio.


I've been sleeping on Kadri. Fine. Trio.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #54 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:40 am

Man, if you go over to Lighthouse Hockey (the Isles version of PPP) the comments are just unreal. Those fans are livid—wishing ill on Tavares, the Leafs, Leafs fans, claiming JT isn’t an elite player, claiming the Isles will be better than the Leafs in a couple years and that JT traded away his chance to be the franchise player of NYI for a one or two year run with the Leafs. My favourite is their fans wanting to throw out on offer sheet on Willy.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #55 by Curry Rage » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:29 am

Denial, bargaining, depression...
*Buy Oil Stocks!*
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #56 by LeafOfBread » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:31 am

NYI has nobody to blame but themselves. It is a little crappy that JT didn't let them trade him at the deadline and that he didn't say before the midnight deadline that he wasn't coming back, so I feel for them in that sense, but ultimately he was surrounded with shit for 9 years, and this was a once in a lifetime opportunity. It's never made more sense to become a Leaf than now.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #57 by Thomas Malthus » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:37 am

Telling NYI that he wasn't coming back would have meant that he himself knew he wasn't coming back. I'm not sure that was the case. Did you watch the press conference? It looked like he was choking up talking about the Islanders. I think he went into this week planning on coming back to the Islanders with the Leafs as a strong Plan B but the pitch from the Leafs changed his mind. I don't think he knew until right at the end that he was leaving New York.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #58 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:59 pm

JT knew he was leaving that shit show. He knew it was the Leafs all along. His agent used the 5 other teams to try to get JT more money. Most likely the Leafs started low and didn't budge at 11. SJ had 13 mill on the table and his agent was using that, good on Dubas for not biting. Smart man.

And and a thank you and a fuck Stamkos. This would have never happened without you. JT has a better overall center game.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #59 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:01 pm

Full melt down with the Isles fans. Get this doozie.

They want to offersheet Matthews to.... Get ready for this lol.....

















To play behind Barzal.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #60 by WTF » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:37 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Full melt down with the Isles fans. Get this doozie.

They want to offersheet Matthews to.... Get ready for this lol.....

















To play behind Barzal.


I don't think they understand that a player has to accept the offer sheet.

"Hey Auston, how'd you like to come to a complete shit show that Lou is desperately trying to clean up instead of having a real shot at a Cup and hockey immortality in Toronto?"

*CLICK*

"Hello? Auston, are you there?"
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #61 by cawbber » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:42 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:JT knew he was leaving that shit show. He knew it was the Leafs all along. His agent used the 5 other teams to try to get JT more money. Most likely the Leafs started low and didn't budge at 11. SJ had 13 mill on the table and his agent was using that, good on Dubas for not biting. Smart man.

And and a thank you and a fuck Stamkos. This would have never happened without you. JT has a better overall center game.

To be honest, Stammer would have been a great add also. It all worked out in the end.

I'd feel bad for Isles fans if we didn't have our own overwhelming history of crushing disappointment. Sports are cyclical and we are finally emerging from the trough. All of the pieces Shanny has put in place are starting to bear fruit, and contrasts the futility of Islanders management letting it get to this point. I think Lou will help them right the ship eventually, but it will take time.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #62 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:12 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:JT knew he was leaving that shit show. He knew it was the Leafs all along. His agent used the 5 other teams to try to get JT more money. Most likely the Leafs started low and didn't budge at 11. SJ had 13 mill on the table and his agent was using that, good on Dubas for not biting. Smart man.

And and a thank you and a fuck Stamkos. This would have never happened without you. JT has a better overall center game.


No way he already knew. The leverage idea doesn't make sense because he took a discount.

The funny thing is that the thing that pisses islanders fans off the most is the same thing that should convince them not to be pissed off: JT's loyalty. He left despite being loyal, but it was his loyalty that kept him from asking for a trade at the deadline (or indicating that he will probably leave).

It is 100% Snows fault for not trading a player who clearly had ties to a different city and who clearly wanted to win. JT was an obvious flight risk and the lack of contract meant Snow was in a perilous position. Really stupid to blame the player for playing out his contract and then taking up another one in a far better situation.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #63 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:13 pm

Ya he would have been awesome with Marner.

Lou will give them much needed help. Plan B, now plan A is the 1st overall. All Lou has to do is look the Leafs and say thats how it's done. It will take some luck.

Barzal
Houghes

Could be the new era for the Isles.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #64 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:33 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:JT knew he was leaving that shit show. He knew it was the Leafs all along. His agent used the 5 other teams to try to get JT more money. Most likely the Leafs started low and didn't budge at 11. SJ had 13 mill on the table and his agent was using that, good on Dubas for not biting. Smart man.

And and a thank you and a fuck Stamkos. This would have never happened without you. JT has a better overall center game.


No way he already knew. The leverage idea doesn't make sense because he took a discount.

The funny thing is that the thing that pisses islanders fans off the most is the same thing that should convince them not to be pissed off: JT's loyalty. He left despite being loyal, but it was his loyalty that kept him from asking for a trade at the deadline (or indicating that he will probably leave).

It is 100% Snows fault for not trading a player who clearly had ties to a different city and who clearly wanted to win. JT was an obvious flight risk and the lack of contract meant Snow was in a perilous position. Really stupid to blame the player for playing out his contract and then taking up another one in a far better situation.


They tried to use them but it didn't work. It could have a bit, they very well could have squeezed a bit more money out of them. It doesn't make sense to go into free agency, announcing its the Leafs and/or Isles. He gains more leverage by not tipping his hand, 101.

Lets pretend we are JT. He's had a long time to think his life over. You look at home. His soon to be wife. The shape of the Leafs from management down. Where he'll want his kids growing up, playing the sport he loves.

Then you think over the past nine years, and look at the franchise you played for. How dysfunctional it is and has been throuhout his career.

The first thing I learned about JT is how meticulous he is. He doesn't sound like a character that would make hasty life decisions. And don't give me the 6 day whorespit.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #65 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:27 pm

I'll add, leaving money on the table re enforces the idea it was only ever Toronto.

Loyalty. Another attribute of Johns. His family, chilhood team, etc. Or, the dumpster fire. Ugh...

It's okay, John. We promise to love you.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #66 by WTF » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:28 pm

Hyman - Tavares - Marner

Mitch finally gets a chance to play a full season with an elite talent on his line. Oh, and the new guy as well.

:colbertsmile:
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #67 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Imagine Kappanen out there with the other two? Tape to tape passes all night long.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #68 by WTF » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:46 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:Imagine Kappanen out there with the other two? Tape to tape passes all night long.


I'm perfectly okay with having Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen as a third line. Kadri needs to look into getting rockets installed in his skates to keep up with his
new wingers though.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #69 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:50 pm

Any chance Jooris beats out Lindholm for the 4th line C job? Apparently he is a strong checker and penalty killer.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #70 by vf » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:25 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Any chance Jooris beats out Lindholm for the 4th line C job? Apparently he is a strong checker and penalty killer.


Carolina used him as a 3rd string PK. Only took 113 faceofs in 31gp for them. 5 on the pk and only won 45%.

In 9gp with the Pens he played less PK then Greg McKegg though he did take 50 draws winning 48% of them.

Don't think I'd count on him for much.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #71 by MonkeyWrench » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:33 pm

He'll have the route to and from Ricoh Colosseum memorized.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #72 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:54 pm

Philthy Thrillz wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:
Philthy Thrillz wrote:JT knew he was leaving that shit show. He knew it was the Leafs all along. His agent used the 5 other teams to try to get JT more money. Most likely the Leafs started low and didn't budge at 11. SJ had 13 mill on the table and his agent was using that, good on Dubas for not biting. Smart man.

And and a thank you and a fuck Stamkos. This would have never happened without you. JT has a better overall center game.


No way he already knew. The leverage idea doesn't make sense because he took a discount.

The funny thing is that the thing that pisses islanders fans off the most is the same thing that should convince them not to be pissed off: JT's loyalty. He left despite being loyal, but it was his loyalty that kept him from asking for a trade at the deadline (or indicating that he will probably leave).

It is 100% Snows fault for not trading a player who clearly had ties to a different city and who clearly wanted to win. JT was an obvious flight risk and the lack of contract meant Snow was in a perilous position. Really stupid to blame the player for playing out his contract and then taking up another one in a far better situation.


They tried to use them but it didn't work. It could have a bit, they very well could have squeezed a bit more money out of them. It doesn't make sense to go into free agency, announcing its the Leafs and/or Isles. He gains more leverage by not tipping his hand, 101.

Lets pretend we are JT. He's had a long time to think his life over. You look at home. His soon to be wife. The shape of the Leafs from management down. Where he'll want his kids growing up, playing the sport he loves.

Then you think over the past nine years, and look at the franchise you played for. How dysfunctional it is and has been throuhout his career.

The first thing I learned about JT is how meticulous he is. He doesn't sound like a character that would make hasty life decisions. And don't give me the 6 day whorespit.


I'm sorry PT, but this doesn't make sense. He took a discount. If the interview period was about money he would have taken the most money.

I think he was genuinely conflicted. You have to remember that he was constantly with his teammates during the season. Hard to admit to oneself that they want to leave in that context. Comes home to mississauga and then sees everything laid out for him got him thinking differently.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #73 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:31 pm

I said it was only ever the Leafs.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #74 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:54 pm

I think you're wrong
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #75 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:07 pm

I don't buy such a detailed, calculated guy such as JT having an epiphany.

Getting married this summer, to his wife that just landed a job, in Toronto. This has been in the works.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #76 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:15 pm

If it was in the works than why did he meet with 6 teams, and wait until the day of July 1st to make a decision? I'm with EB, I think he planned to be an Islander until this past week.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #77 by Philthy Thrillz » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:50 pm

He needed a plan B. Meticulous.

He may have been leaving NY regardless.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #78 by LeafOfBread » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:04 am

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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #79 by Honus Joglund » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:31 am

Image
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #80 by LeafOfBread » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:46 am

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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #81 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:08 am

Boys I don't know how I'm going to hold out until September... My body is ready for hockey now.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #82 by LeafOfBread » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:10 am



look how much matthews HATES this signing
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #83 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:24 am

You thought Mats was mad about PP usage last season....
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #84 by LeafOfBread » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:48 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:You thought Mats was mad about PP usage last season....

i did?
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #85 by Whit Dickman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:55 am

I wonder if they'll load up one PP:

Nylander - Matthews - Tavares
Marner - Rielly

Johnsson - Marleau - Brown
Kadri - Gardiner
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #86 by LeafOfBread » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Whit Dickman wrote:I wonder if they'll load up one PP:

Nylander - Matthews - Tavares
Marner - Rielly

Johnsson - Marleau - Brown
Kadri - Gardiner

I wanna keep Kadri on that first unit. Him, Rielly and Marner have some amazing chemistry and he does really well in the slot.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #87 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:03 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
Thomas Malthus wrote:You thought Mats was mad about PP usage last season....

i did?


Not you specifically. It was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek thing. Like, "And you thought Mats was upset LAST season..."
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #88 by mooseOAK » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:04 pm

Put Tavares in Bozak’s spot. The second unit needs a set up guy.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #89 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:10 pm

Tavares in JvR's spot down low. Kadri as the bumper. Mo on the line. Marner on the wall.

Last spot has to go to Matthews. He was good on his strong side when they ran with that last season and during his rookie season. The dynamic will be different though since he and Nylander were playing catch and rifling shots while Marner's shot isn't as large a threat. Still, teams will need to respect Matthews' shot on that side which should open up ice for Marner, Kadri, and Tavares.

Second unit is Nylander in Marner's spot. Gardiner on the line. Marleau at the net. Johnsson as the bumper and Kapanen or Brown on the left wall.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #90 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:12 pm

I'm not a big fan of loading up on one pp unit. What has made us so dangerous in the past is that both units can kill you.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #91 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:16 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I'm not a big fan of loading up on one pp unit. What has made us so dangerous in the past is that both units can kill you.


That's fair but 1) we have no shortage of talented players; and 2) having only one unit going seems okay as long as it's historically good.

It remains to be seen whether or not JvR can be replaced easily by Tavares without changing the dynamic too much. A nice thing about Matthews instead of Bozak is that he's such a great on-touch shooter that Tavares or Kadri can tap a puck over to him after Marner sends it towards the net and that's an additional threat that should force opposing teams to open up more.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #92 by AGENT ZERO » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I'm not a big fan of loading up on one pp unit. What has made us so dangerous in the past is that both units can kill you.


That's fair but 1) we have no shortage of talented players; and 2) having only one unit going seems okay as long as it's historically good.

It remains to be seen whether or not JvR can be replaced easily by Tavares without changing the dynamic too much. A nice thing about Matthews instead of Bozak is that he's such a great on-touch shooter that Tavares or Kadri can tap a puck over to him after Marner sends it towards the net and that's an additional threat that should force opposing teams to open up more.


We are also not so deep that you can put: JT, Matthews, Rielly, Marner and Kadri on one unit and maintain balance. Nylander and Gardiner are good, but carrying a unit with Brown, Johnsson and Marleau is asking alot. Plus Matthews, Marner and Tavares are used to having the pp run through them which could create issues. I think you put Marleau on the left half wall of unit 1, and allow Matthews and Nylander to keep playing catch on the second unit. You could also shift Kadri to the wall as he had success playing there in the past and is an excellent passer.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #93 by Retardé S » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:14 pm

fuck yall
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #94 by Honus Joglund » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:58 pm

Can't wait until Babz starts stacking a line every once in a while, Crosby/Malkin style.

Tavares - Matthews - Marner

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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #95 by Thomas Malthus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:01 pm

No need to sign a fourth line C, just rotate Matthews, Tavares, and Kadri so that they get that extra ice time. We can be the Tampa Bay Rays of the NHL.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #96 by Whit Dickman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:No need to sign a fourth line C, just rotate Matthews, Tavares, and Kadri so that they get that extra ice time. We can be the Tampa Bay Rays of the NHL.


Actually, might make sense to carry Marincin as an extra dman for PK purposes...
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #97 by Philthy Thrillz » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:56 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I'm not a big fan of loading up on one pp unit. What has made us so dangerous in the past is that both units can kill you.


I think Babs has to Matthews on the pp1. Clearly he didn't like playing on th pp2. Frankly, who the fuck puts their best scorer on the 2nd unit? Do you put JT on the 2nd unit? Probably shouldn't.

Do you even need a 2nd unit?

I love Pittsburgh's PP.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #98 by stoney » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:53 am

Philthy Thrillz wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I'm not a big fan of loading up on one pp unit. What has made us so dangerous in the past is that both units can kill you.


I think Babs has to Matthews on the pp1. Clearly he didn't like playing on th pp2. Frankly, who the fuck puts their best scorer on the 2nd unit? Do you put JT on the 2nd unit? Probably shouldn't.

Do you even need a 2nd unit?

I love Pittsburgh's PP.


As I recall it, every time it seemed like the Matthews line looked like it was going to take the top spot over, Bozak’s unit would pop a few. The internal competition seemed healthy to me.
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #99 by Thomas Malthus » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:12 am

Just hopped over to reddit and saw a post discussing Tavares' defensive game. These were posted in the comments and are interesting reads (especially since they were written before he became a Leaf).

Andrew Berkshire - How Tavares stacks up against top centres on free agency suitors. Berkshire compares Tavares to the centres from the teams Tavares listened to pitches from using that Sportslogiq data (where definitions are absent from the public realm, so take with some salt) and there's quite a lot to say about Matthews in there too.

Tavares has taken great leaps in his play without the puck in recent years, though he was better in 2016-17 than he was last year. In fact in 2016-17 he was one of, if not the most effective defensive forwards in the entire league.

Last season he remained strong, but on an Islanders team that was particularly bad defensively, his individual statistics suffered as well.

What’s interesting in looking at the plays without the puck by this group isn’t that Patrice Bergeron crushes everyone, that’s to be expected. It’s that Auston Matthews looks almost comparable. Matthews is once again far ahead of Tavares in impact in this area, and Bergeron’s contributions here also might be enough to push him ahead.


Berkshire has another article from 2016-17 season where he considers the top 5 finalists for the Selke and puts Tavares at 3rd behind Stone and Bergeron.

Ian Tulloch - The arguments for and against Toronto signing John Tavares. This one's paywalled at the Athletic. Tavares had the 7th best defensive Goals Above Replacement component last season. He's also had the third highest cumulative Goals Above Replacement since 2015 behind Crosby and Bergeron. Here's a snippet.

Adding a player like Tavares would go a long way towards improving the team’s defensive play, given that he’s become one of the better defensive centres in hockey over the past couple years. It’s flown under the radar, but when you compare his on-ice results to centres who face top lines (75th percentile in Quality of Competition or higher), he’s among the NHL’s truly elite two-way centres.
"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." - Ronald Coase
"[...]all models are wrong, some are useful." - George E. P. Box
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Re: The Hero You Deserve

Post #100 by Philthy Thrillz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:21 am

The PP was good last year, I won't argue that. The Bozak line needed soft minutes to score, that includes the PP. What I detest is having Leo fucking Komarov and the likes on said PP. All hail the Babs, but come on, that's ludicrous. Especially when you have one of the best goal scorers playing 2nd fiddle.

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