Prospects, Drafts & Tanks - The Cubbard is PedoBear

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ABasin
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Post #101 by ABasin » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:05 pm

StanGetz wrote:It was Quincey>Downie>Talbot


I was never a fan of the Quincey-Downie trade, as I've never really seen what's the big deal about Downie. Oft-injured 2nd or 3rd line wing. He's OK, don't get me wrong. But nothing more than that.

That said, I'm not sure I get the trade. To get a good PK guy perhaps?
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Post #102 by VLoo » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:38 pm

KL wrote:Downie has always been toxic in the locker room, going back to junior. I am not at all surprised by this trade.

So basically, if I remember correctly, this means the Avs gave up a 1st round pick for fucking Max Talbot. Brilliant.


Because that's absolutely how trades work.
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Post #103 by NHL33 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:41 pm

Talbot sucks. This is a terrible trade. I wanted the 1st when we dealt Quincey away...how the fuck did we make this a straight-up deal?
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Post #104 by Brain of J » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:14 pm

McGinn/MacKinnon/Downie is a scary bad defensive line. Talbot gives them a defensively responsible player, which will allow MacKinnon to play more. His cheap contract next year will also give them flexibility to bring in a defenseman.

I don't think they got great value on the trade, but I understand the logic behind it.

I bet Stastny gets locked up now.
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Post #105 by NHL33 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:15 pm

I'm not opposed to the idea, I just think Talbot is the wrong person. Hope I'm wrong. Just don't think he's the defensive type of specialist they were looking for.
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Post #106 by chewey » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:06 pm

This is all speculative, as a forum we are speculative in nature, but I think Downie may have had some issues in the locker room. He seems like the guy to have a short temperament.

On the basis of the deal, yes I would say value wise it was bad. Especially what was originally offered for Quincey. As KL said, basically Talbot for a 1st round pick.. .ouch.

I am not sure what to expect on the ice nor will I know what the difference will be off it. But i'll be interesting to see what effect this will have, if any.
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Post #107 by stan:getz » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:08 am

dempsey_k wrote:I don't remember us ever giving up a first round pick for Downie.


Detroit gave Tampa a first round pick for Quincey after we traded him to Tampa for Downie. We didn't ever give a first rounder, which is why you don't remember it.
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Post #108 by NHL33 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:11 am

dempsey_k wrote:Then why do people keep mentioning it?

Because we despise Talbot.




Right now.
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Post #109 by KL » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:55 am

dempsey_k wrote:Then why do people keep mentioning it?


Because Detroit offered Colorado the pick and they wanted Downie instead. Wasn't that what it was? The Avs had the offer of a 1st round pick and instead took Downie from Tampa.

All that said, Downie for Talbot is addition by subtraction in the room. Things are going well for the Avs. This trade essentially gets rid of the douche who keeps farting in the hot tub, and replaced him with a slightly less-talented dude who does not fart in the hot tub. I can't see the trade being a negative for the Avs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Talbot fan. But I prefer no Downie on the roster, that's for sure.
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Post #110 by chewey » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:24 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Then why do people keep mentioning it?


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/did-avalanche-know-yzerman-turning-kyle-quincey-detroit-035306655.html

I can't find the Bruce Garrioch comment, even when clicking on that link.
However it was a choice of either Downie and a 1st. The Avs choose Downie.

That is why its being brought up.

Either way, no point in crying over spilled milk at this point.
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Post #111 by NHL33 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:13 pm

Dempsey understands, he's just telling us to stop whining about it since we didn't literally trade a 1st for Talbot.
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Post #112 by ABasin » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm

NHL33 wrote:Dempsey understands, he's just telling us to stop whining about it since we didn't literally trade a 1st for Talbot.


Just yet another overpayment/meh trade by Greg Sherman. I never felt Downie was worth Quincey, and Talbot is probably not worth Downie, but I honestly don't believe the difference is really that big this time around. In both cases though, the Avs got the salary benefit, so it makes sense they'd get the shittier player.
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Post #113 by NHL33 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:39 pm

ABasin wrote:Just yet another overpayment/meh trade by Greg Sherman. I never felt Downie was worth Quincey, and Talbot is probably not worth Downie, but I honestly don't believe the difference is really that big this time around. In both cases though, the Avs got the salary benefit, so it makes sense they'd get the shittier player.

Quincey is not that good, especially for the raise he was due. I think the 1st was better than both him and Downie, hence why I consider that a bad trade.
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Post #114 by Brain of J » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:57 pm

Hishon left tonights game after getting knocked into the boards head first...
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Post #115 by NHL33 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:03 am

Hishon2Mueller ftw


Make it happen, miracles.
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Post #116 by stan:getz » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:42 am

I feel bad for the kid. It would be hard to come to terms with what he's going to have to soon.


The impact as a fan though is meh. We could look back at who would have been a better selection, but at this point it doesn't really matter. He won't ever play for is, we never saw him, and he will never hit his potential.

Let's let him go and move on.
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Post #117 by ABasin » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:34 am

NHL33 wrote:Quincey is not that good, especially for the raise he was due. I think the 1st was better than both him and Downie, hence why I consider that a bad trade.


Downie got a concussion in their game last night.
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Post #118 by ABasin » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:34 am

hek wrote:Kid's a walking concussion.


Game over? Too bad.
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Post #119 by Alex Jones » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:00 am

Hishon probably won't even be resigned.
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Post #120 by stan:getz » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:44 am

dempsey_k wrote:He's going to play with the district 5 peewees.


Ah, the allsvensken league.
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Post #121 by chewey » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:36 am

I am so happy at how bad the Oilers suck. Just so so happy!
I am jelly of the talent they have on that offense (Yakupov + RNH + Eberle + Hall) but man they just can't get the gears going. Sounds like a lot of Oilers aren't happy with the play of Eberle and RNH either this year. I hope they are stupid enough to trade Eberle and hopefully the Avs can get him somehow. Eberle on RW with Duch, RoR or Staz = DROOL.
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Post #122 by NHL33 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:48 am

Forward core is already here, no need to trade from it for Eberle.

Plus maybe Radulov likes Roy so much maybe he'll sign with us in 3 years' time. :pacman:
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Post #123 by chewey » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:54 am

NHL33 wrote:Forward core is already here, no need to trade from it for Eberle.


I wouldn't trade anyone from our forward core for him. I would love it if the Oilers were crazy enough to accept something like Seimens/Elliot/Barrie + 1st pick or something along those lines. Oilers and Avs don't make good trading partners but still, a man can dream.

Plus maybe Radulov likes Roy so much maybe he'll sign with us in 3 years' time. :pacman:


I'd pass on Radulov. Love his talent but not his personality.
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Post #124 by NHL33 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:59 am

dmitri wrote:I'd pass on Radulov. Love his talent but not his personality.

I'd take Radulov but he loves money (like everyone), and he's not worth breaking the bank for when we'll have difficulty as it is fitting every one under the cap.

The ship has sailed on Mueller, but I'd love to see if he would be willing to return for a low cost next season. Too much talent and would be an extremely good fit.
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Post #125 by Brain of J » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:01 am

The Oilers young talent is why they're struggling. None of those young forwards care to play defense.
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Post #126 by WarriorOfGandhi » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:02 pm

the Oilers have so many problems that there's no point in blaming it on any one thing. I wouldn't want any part of their scoring forwards, defensive forwards, rushing dmen, defensive dmen, goalies, coaches, management, ownership, and lack of ability to attract free agents. That team is a house of cards on a good day.
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Post #127 by chewey » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:50 pm

Brain of J wrote:The Oilers young talent is why they're struggling. None of those young forwards care to play defense.


When ever I see them play, be it a little brief, they play 'Hero Hockey'. They all have so much skill to take over a game they try to do too much by themselves. Its something coaching and environment should fix.. which speaks volume of the other issues going on there, not just defense.

WarriorOfGandhi wrote:the Oilers have so many problems that there's no point in blaming it on any one thing.


Agreed.

I wouldn't want any part of their scoring forwards,


I am no fan of Yakupov, RNH or Hall but no to Eberle? The kid can play.

defensive forwards, rushing dmen, defensive dmen, goalies, coaches, management, ownership, and lack of ability to attract free agents. That team is a house of cards on a good day.


Agreed on all else. Though I wouldn't mind having Smid.
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Post #128 by NHL33 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:44 pm

Eberle is awesome; really, really wasted on them.

Not a fan of Hall but he has crazy skill. Even with the hero type of hockey they play, he excels -- but he gets injured a lot.

RNH is pretty good. Kind of dislike him but not certain why. I haven't bothered to watch enough Oilers to figure out why, because watching them is utterly boring.

Neutral on Yakupov.

They need to clear out management top-to-bottom. Isn't Kevin Lowe still involved one way or another in hockey operations? No reason that should be the case considering their continual failures.

One thing that the Avalanche did get right is building from the middle out. They also tried, and generally failed to, build from defense and goaltending as well, but at least they had some credible efforts on that end regardless of results; can't say the same for Edmonton.
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Post #129 by ABasin » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:55 am

dmitri wrote:When ever I see them play, be it a little brief, they play 'Hero Hockey'. They all have so much skill to take over a game they try to do too much by themselves. Its something coaching and environment should fix.. which speaks volume of the other issues going on there, not just defense.



Agreed.



I am no fan of Yakupov, RNH or Hall but no to Eberle? The kid can play.



Agreed on all else. Though I wouldn't mind having Smid.


i think they can all play, though I'd take Eberle also.

That team should be better in the standings, period.

BTW, I watched a couple of TB games last week. Stamkos is incredible.
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Post #130 by NHL33 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:54 pm

Stamkos has learned how to pass. He 'pulled a Duchene' if you will.
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Post #131 by NHL33 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:03 pm

Hishon back in the lineup:
http://theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1011306

Had an assist in the 3rd period. One shot on net.
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Post #132 by WarriorOfGandhi » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:46 pm

CALL HIM UP

SEND MACKINNON DOWN

and et cetera
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Post #133 by NHL33 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:36 pm

He has been out of the lineup for several games now. I have no idea what's up with him - a recurrence of concussion symptoms? Shame because he produces more or less every game when he's actually in the lineup.
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Post #134 by Brain of J » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:53 am

It's supposedly a lower body issue.

Siemens and Sgarbossa have been out for over a month now. Would be nice to get an update.
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Post #135 by VLoo » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:48 pm

Damon Severson just got cut from the Canadian WJC squad, so looks like Bigras will have a spot on the squad.
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Post #136 by VLoo » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:17 pm

NHL33 wrote:He has been out of the lineup for several games now. I have no idea what's up with him - a recurrence of concussion symptoms? Shame because he produces more or less every game when he's actually in the lineup.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2013/12/joey-hishons-determined-22-month-battle-after-a-concussion.html

Article on Hishon, also points out his injury this time around is a hip flexor and hopes to be back in the lineup tonight.
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Post #137 by ABasin » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:44 am

VLoo wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2013/12/joey-hishons-determined-22-month-battle-after-a-concussion.html

Article on Hishon, also points out his injury this time around is a hip flexor and hopes to be back in the lineup tonight.


Thanks for posting that.

I have a feeling that any NHL success Hishon may or may not have, won't be with the Avalanche. I think we've probably seen the last of both him and Wilson (after this season) in the Avs organization.
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Post #138 by VLoo » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:16 am

ABasin wrote:Thanks for posting that.

I have a feeling that any NHL success Hishon may or may not have, won't be with the Avalanche. I think we've probably seen the last of both him and Wilson (after this season) in the Avs organization.


I've always liked Ol' Spaghetti Brains, even before we drafted him, so I hope not. I don't think Hishon would have much leverage on the open market and with him seemingly getting over his head issues I think he has too much skill to not at the very least tender him. Give him a 1 or 2 year deal, let him show he's healthy and I think that would pay off for the Avs. If not, it'd likely be a low risk/low money deal anyway so you're not putting any assets in jeopardy by holding onto a guy like Hishon for another year or 2.

I'm curious if they'll give Elliott any looks with the big squad this year. I think you could call him up for a game or 2 when and put him in instead of Holden when Guenin gets scratched the odd time, see how he gels. His 1st year he added a ton of offensive spark, last year was a disaster for just about everybody because Sacco was Sacco. Would like to see what he'd do with a competent team and coach.
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Post #139 by VLoo » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:14 pm

hek wrote:I haven't followed Elliot this year in Lake Erie, but I've given up any hope he'll be a contributor for the Avs.


I haven't seen a single minute of Lake Erie this year, but he seems to be doing what he always does, putting up around a .5 points a game. It doesn't help that we need actual D help instead of offensive production from the back end, but he's on the last year of his ELC so why not see if can stick as a 6 or 7?
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Post #140 by NHL33 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Unless he has extended concussion symptoms, I expect Hishon to be part of the future extended core. We'll need wingers and maybe he's too talented to not play center, but initially at least his value will be there.

I wouldn't be adverse to bringing back Mueller either, but I know that's just a dream by now.
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Post #141 by Brain of J » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:34 pm

Will Butcher seems like he'll likely make Team USA, so the Avs may have two defensemen playing in the WJC's.
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Post #142 by VLoo » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:37 pm

There's pretty much 0 chance of it happening, but man would I love to have Ekblad on the Avs next year.
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Post #143 by chewey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:36 am

VLoo wrote:There's pretty much 0 chance of it happening, but man would I love to have Ekblad on the Avs next year.


I haven't followed on prospects much but is Ekblad ranked higher or lower than Jones?
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Post #144 by VLoo » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:31 am

dmitri wrote:I haven't followed on prospects much but is Ekblad ranked higher or lower than Jones?


I honestly never watched a ton of Jones in his junior years and haven't watched enough of him this year to form an opinion but he seems to be playing pretty damn good for an 18/19 year old in the NHL. I imagine Ekblad is probably just a slight slight step down. He's just solid everywhere, and probably the safest guy in the draft, worst case he bottoms out as a #4. He's been the only defenseman I've been comfortable watching on the ice for Canada in the Jr's and he's been an absolute monster in Barrie all year.
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Post #145 by chewey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:59 pm

VLoo wrote:I honestly never watched a ton of Jones in his junior years and haven't watched enough of him this year to form an opinion but he seems to be playing pretty damn good for an 18/19 year old in the NHL. I imagine Ekblad is probably just a slight slight step down. He's just solid everywhere, and probably the safest guy in the draft, worst case he bottoms out as a #4. He's been the only defenseman I've been comfortable watching on the ice for Canada in the Jr's and he's been an absolute monster in Barrie all year.


So would you say then last year's draft class had better top end talent? I am also trying to understand how strong this draft class is. From what I hear (which isn't something one should go by) it is pretty weak.
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Post #146 by VLoo » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:20 pm

dmitri wrote:So would you say then last year's draft class had better top end talent? I am also trying to understand how strong this draft class is. From what I hear (which isn't something one should go by) it is pretty weak.


There are probably 8-10 prospects from last year's draft you could argue would be #1 picks this year. Last year was one of the better and deeper classes in a while. Most expect the 2015 class to be stronger than this year's class as well. I think the 1st round has some good depth but nothing close to the top end of last year.
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Post #147 by chewey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:49 pm

VLoo wrote:There are probably 8-10 prospects from last year's draft you could argue would be #1 picks this year. Last year was one of the better and deeper classes in a while. Most expect the 2015 class to be stronger than this year's class as well. I think the 1st round has some good depth but nothing close to the top end of last year.


Fair enough. Yeah last year's draft class looks pretty amazing right now.

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