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Dem Lines 2014-2015

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:16 am
by chewey
So heading into next year, what are your guys's prediction for the lines? Mine are:

RoR - Duch - Iggy
Lando - MacK - Tangs
McGinn - Mitchell - Briere
McLeod - Winchester - Talbot

E: Bordeleau, Cliche

Honestly the bottom 6 might be moved around a little but overall it "should" be deep enough not to crap the bed too often.

Stuart - EJ
Hedja - Barrie
Redmond - Holden

E: Guenin, Elliott, Stollery

I am not sure what to think about our defense. Is it better than last year? Maybe. Will it still be this teams biggest weakness? Most likely. Varly will pretty much need to perform like he did last year.

Varly
Berra

So the offense is I would say taken a side step. We certainly lost some utility with Stastny but adding Iggy + more depth should hopefully replace some of the offense and defense Stastny brought.

Defense, again side step. Not a big enough improvement to suggested we have a solid top 4, but with the emergence of Barrie middle to end of last season and adding Stuart it is a little more stable than what we started with last year.

Berra is also a pretty big question mark in goal so here is hoping this expensive experiment works.

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:48 am
by NHL33
The defense may be bad but it's still better than last season's.

I think your lines are probably right. Having some second thoughts on how effective Iginla will be...w/e.

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:20 am
by chewey
dempsey_k wrote:word out of Vail training is that MacKinnon has grown from a boy into a manbeast over the summer.


Is that good or bad? Normally when they bulk up you always have concerns about the speeds. I don't think Duchene really slowed down after he bulked up but that is mostly due to majority of his mass being in his lower body (no homo).

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:43 am
by NHL33
Yeah, MacKinnon is going to be a monster. I still can't believe how good he was in his rookie season. Fucking nuts.

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:42 am
by ABasin
chewey wrote:So heading into next year, what are your guys's prediction for the lines? Mine are:

RoR - Duch - Iggy
Lando - MacK - Tangs
McGinn - Mitchell - Briere
McLeod - Winchester - Talbot

E: Bordeleau, Cliche

Honestly the bottom 6 might be moved around a little but overall it "should" be deep enough not to crap the bed too often.

Stuart - EJ
Hedja - Barrie
Redmond - Holden

E: Guenin, Elliott, Stollery

I am not sure what to think about our defense. Is it better than last year? Maybe. Will it still be this teams biggest weakness? Most likely. Varly will pretty much need to perform like he did last year.

Varly
Berra

So the offense is I would say taken a side step. We certainly lost some utility with Stastny but adding Iggy + more depth should hopefully replace some of the offense and defense Stastny brought.

Defense, again side step. Not a big enough improvement to suggested we have a solid top 4, but with the emergence of Barrie middle to end of last season and adding Stuart it is a little more stable than what we started with last year.

Berra is also a pretty big question mark in goal so here is hoping this expensive experiment works.


Not sure of the exact alignment, but I think it's a good idea to put Iginla on one line and Landeskog on the other. I've always been a fan of at least one big physical player on each line. Just not sure whether Iginla would be better with MacKinnon and Tanguay. In the end, I'd probably switch Iginla and Landeskog here.

Third line should be pretty good, and again with some physicality in there with McGinn. On the 4th line: are we all sure McLeod isn't going to get beat out by Bordeleau?

On defense, we'll have to see. I think you have the right side nailed down exactly - EJ, Barrie, Redmond (though since I've never seen that last guy play, that may be a bit premature). Maybe Elliott can beat him out. Doubt it though.

It's the left side that is a bit grey, IMO. No doubt it'll be Stuart, Hejda, Holden. But in what order? I never really understood Roy's man-love for Holden last season, but there's no doubt it's there in full force. Is it possible he'd play 1st or 2nd pairing minutes? Hope not, but you never know.

Finally, I do not believe Stuart is going to be anywhere near as bad as many Avs fans believe.

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:45 am
by ABasin
dempsey_k wrote:word out of Vail training is that MacKinnon has grown from a boy into a manbeast over the summer.


I also wonder whether or not they're going to put MacKinnon at center this season, or let O'R play there. Probably the former, but we'll see. Part of MacKinnon's success last season, was his incredible explosiveness out in front of the pack - he did that all of the time because he was at wing, not behind his own net playing defense, which is often required at the center position.

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:03 pm
by NHL33
MacKinnon may not be Selke caliber, but he is not a defensive liability. It's still prudent to limit his defensive responsibilities, but I think there's little chance he's not centering; his skill set is too good. His explosiveness was best accentuated when on Duchene's line, which had less to do with being on the wing than simply having another skater able to keep up and harass the opposition with speed.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:04 am
by Brain of J
MacKinnon was drafted to be a center, and Roy has said he likes him there. I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't playing center most of the season, if not all of it. You deal with the inevitable growing pains. I liked MacKinnon at center last year. When he goes down low and the wingers hit him with speed and he can get moving, much like Duchene, then it just backs off the other team.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:03 pm
by ABasin
hek wrote:Yep. If you're going to let Stastny go then it's time for MacKinnon to step up and start learning the center position. He's got the talent so might as well throw him to the wolves and make him learn defense and draws. No point in sheltering him anymore.

Lines:

O'Reilly - Duchene - Tanguay
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Iginla
McGinn - Mitchell - Briere
McLeod - Winchester - Talbot

Ex. Bordeleau, Cliche, Hishon

Stuart - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Redmond

Ex. Wilson, Guenin, Noreau

Varly
Berra

I'd throw Iginla with MacKinnon to start to give him a little bit more of a physical, veteran presence than Tanguay. There isn't a center on the team I'd trust to throw out against the other team's top lines consistently through a game. Time for Duchene to step up his defensive game big time. Hopefully, Redmond is a diamond in the rough type of guy that can solidify the bottom pairing, it got old holding my breath every time Holden and Guenin/Wilson were out there.


Two questions:

- Are you concerned that this first line would get pushed around a lot?
- Do you believe that Elliott is toast with the organization, and that the Avs will lose him for nothing in waivers?

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:18 pm
by ABasin
hek wrote:Good questions, AB.

First off, while a first line of O'Reilly - Duchene - Tanguay is not physically imposing in any way I don't think they play small. I don't ever remember O'Reilly or Duchene ever being manhandled by bigger defensemen. Duchene with his skating and lower body strength and O'Reilly with his hockey sense seem to have the ability to play against a wide range of defenders. They're not big, but they can flat out play and I don't seem to remember either guy ever struggling in the corners or in front of the net. Tanguay has always been a finesse guy and with his age and injury history he certainly could be a detriment to the line in that respect. It may be trouble in the long run, but I don't think it will be because of O'Reilly or Duchene. Those two together has a ton of success last year.

To be completely honest I totally forgot about Elliott. I've never thought much of him and I still don't. He's a weak defender that has good offensive tools in the AHL and is inconsistent in the NHL. I won't shed a tear if he beats out guys like Guenin or Wilson, but he's going to have to show he's put it all together. We shall see through the preseason. With how weak the depth defenders are for the Avs I wouldn't be surprised if he sticks, but even so I think that's damning him with faint praise.


Yeah, he's got to show something in camp. He's got good skating and stick skills, but something has been missing.

It's going to be an interesting offseason in 2015, as the Avs have 5 UFA contracts coming due (totaling $13.25M), and I can't see the Avs re-upping a single one of those contracts. Three of them on defense, too. Seems that perhaps Elliott is available to other teams on waivers, one year too soon.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:21 am
by Brain of J
I don't think Elliott would get picked up on waivers. He'll stick until the end of camp, and get sent down when the mass of players are sent down by every team. By that time, all NHL teams have already picked their teams, not leaving much room for a waiver pickup. We'll see if it gets to that point, though. I'd love for him to win a spot over Guenin and Noreau.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:25 am
by ABasin
Brain of J wrote:I don't think Elliott would get picked up on waivers. He'll stick until the end of camp, and get sent down when the mass of players are sent down by every team. By that time, all NHL teams have already picked their teams, not leaving much room for a waiver pickup. We'll see if it gets to that point, though. I'd love for him to win a spot over Guenin and Noreau.


I'm not quite so confident. I suspect there's got to be a team out there in desperate need of prospects at the D position, and they'll snap up Elliott pretty quickly, I'd think. Kind of like if some other team allowed a decent wing prospect to be subject to waivers - I think the Avs would be quite interested, since the best non-NHL prospect they have at the position in the organization is goddamn Sgarbossa (who sucks, IMO).

Unless of course I don't completely understand this waiver/claim a player thing - which is most certainly possible. So, if Elliott gets claimed by another team, can they simply send him down to their AHL team, or do they have to play him in the NHL? And if that team does send him down to the AHL, does he go back on waivers or something?

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:40 pm
by VLoo
I think he has to go to the NHL roster, and then if he's sent down before a certain period of time the Avs would get first crack at reclaiming him, where they would be allowed to place him in the AHL. I think. I might be confusing that with the NFL rules for practice squad players though.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:45 pm
by WarriorOfGandhi
how many teams have their own Elliott? I don't know enough about prospects but I'd think at least half already have a small not-meeting-expectations offensive dman.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:17 pm
by ABasin
WarriorOfGandhi wrote:how many teams have their own Elliott? I don't know enough about prospects but I'd think at least half already have a small not-meeting-expectations offensive dman.


I acknowledge the obvious lying about players' heights/weights that occurs amongst NHL prospects, but is 6'1"/190 really 'small'?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:42 am
by Brain of J
ABasin wrote:I'm not quite so confident. I suspect there's got to be a team out there in desperate need of prospects at the D position, and they'll snap up Elliott pretty quickly, I'd think. Kind of like if some other team allowed a decent wing prospect to be subject to waivers - I think the Avs would be quite interested, since the best non-NHL prospect they have at the position in the organization is goddamn Sgarbossa (who sucks, IMO).

Unless of course I don't completely understand this waiver/claim a player thing - which is most certainly possible. So, if Elliott gets claimed by another team, can they simply send him down to their AHL team, or do they have to play him in the NHL? And if that team does send him down to the AHL, does he go back on waivers or something?

Any team that claims Elliott has to keep him in the NHL, and if they decide to waive him, the Avs get the first shot at him, and can put him in the AHL.

Like WOG said, there are a lot of teams out there with there own versions of Stefan Elliott. There's a lot of teams already out there with full 23 man rosters themselves. I don't think the odds of him getting picked up are that great, to be honest.

I'm ready for the season to start. It will be kind of surreal to see Iginla in an Avs jersey.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:34 am
by ABasin
Brain of J wrote:Any team that claims Elliott has to keep him in the NHL, and if they decide to waive him, the Avs get the first shot at him, and can put him in the AHL.

Like WOG said, there are a lot of teams out there with there own versions of Stefan Elliott. There's a lot of teams already out there with full 23 man rosters themselves. I don't think the odds of him getting picked up are that great, to be honest.

I'm ready for the season to start. It will be kind of surreal to see Iginla in an Avs jersey.


OK, I'm learning something here.

So, if the Avs lose Elliott to waivers, the team that picks him up has to keep him in the NHL - for the entire season? In other words, if they drop him back to their AHL affiliate at any point in the season, Elliott goes back on waivers, and the Avs have the first shot at him? Interesting. And that does change my perspective a bit, though I'm still worried that someone would pick him up.

I was about to take a look at all of the teams, and try and figure out which teams would potentially need a guy like Elliott. In other words, which NHL roster desperately needs good young defensemen on it. Didn't have to look too far……

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:01 am
by VLoo
If he can't crack this defense corps, then I think we're playing pretty fast and loose with the term "good"

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:10 pm
by WarriorOfGandhi
ABasin wrote:I acknowledge the obvious lying about players' heights/weights that occurs amongst NHL prospects, but is 6'1"/190 really 'small'?


wow, is he really 6'1? My memory is him looking like he was 5'10 out there.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:12 pm
by Brain of J
Elliott is definitely taller than a guy like Barrie, but he's so skinny it doesn't even matter.

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:03 am
by NHL33
Do any of you watch LEM? Did any of you catch a non-trivial amount of games where Elliott played?

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:41 pm
by NHL33
hek wrote:Not at all. Who watches the AHL?

My opinions are based off a very limited NHL sample size. Right or wrong.

Then it'll just become a glorified circle jerk.

He looked dumb. I have no idea how he's doing now.

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:33 am
by ABasin
NHL33 wrote:Do any of you watch LEM? Did any of you catch a non-trivial amount of games where Elliott played?


No, I don't. Though I would from time to time if it was readily available.

I go to every training camp every year (though this year I'm camping instead), and catch a couple of home preseason games also. Those plus Elliott's few actual NHL games are where I draw any conclusions, lame though that may be. And in those few games, dude was pillow soft.