All Purpose NHL Thread 3

Winning in spite of ourselves...
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Post #151 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:40 pm

Anyone else Hodgson wasn't part of that deal? Headcase for headcase, big salary for big salary, immediate help for Winnipeg, etc.

I don't blame Benning so much as ownership. His mandate is to rebuild on the fly which is a essentially a mandate to make poor decisions.
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Post #152 by Ernie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:07 pm

Hodgson is a buyout candidate, not a trade chip.
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Post #153 by Killface » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Still seems like a ton to give up for Kane. Let's say Bogosian = Myers (Is this true? Both are let downs) and Kasdorf has insignificant value.

So Kane returned Stafford who is still a good winger on a terrible team, plus two very good prospects and a first rounder.
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Post #154 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Ernie wrote:Hodgson is a buyout candidate, not a trade chip.


I think he falls into the category of type of player a lot of GMs would give a second chance to. Same with Kassian I guess.
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Post #155 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:00 pm

Killface wrote:Still seems like a ton to give up for Kane. Let's say Bogosian = Myers (Is this true? Both are let downs) and Kasdorf has insignificant value.

So Kane returned Stafford who is still a good winger on a terrible team, plus two very good prospects and a first rounder.


I dunno. Stafford is a UFA, so he might get what, a 2nd on his own at the deadline? So a 1st, a 2nd and 2 prospects. Probably not far from what Vermette will go for this year as a UFA. Nevermind a 23 year old potential star signed long term.
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Post #156 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:01 pm

19nazzy wrote:So Kassian obviously.


Kassian, Lack, Jensen and a pick?
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Post #157 by Cao » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:44 pm

I feel bad for bogosian. He's a solid second pairing guy and by all accounts was pretty liked in Winnipeg. Now he has to go to Buffalo because of Kane.

Big trade for Buffalo. I think Winnipeg definitely wins out right now.
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Post #158 by Tripwyre » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:52 pm

Bogosian was a major disappointment for a guy drafted right behind Drew Doughty, but he was also a major disappointment even if you were expecting him to be an average NHL defenseman. He sucks. It should say a lot that they traded him for Tyler fucking Myers of all people, and that Myers is considered an upgrade.
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Post #159 by Killface » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:55 pm

Buffalo trades Enroth to Dallas for Lindback and a [s]confidential[/s] CONDITIONAL 3rd rounder (becomes a 2nd if Enroth wins 4 playoff games). I would think Lack and Enroth have pretty similar values.
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Post #160 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:23 pm

Hey, that was confidential.
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Post #161 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:25 pm

Ed Willes ‏@willesonsports 19m19 minutes ago
Here's the full post on Benning. Myers obviously the key for the Jets. Only similar player for the Canucks is Tanev.




:stare: :stare: :stare: :stare: :stare: :stare:





:stare:
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Post #162 by Vector » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:40 pm

Willes is right. Tanev is the only similar player. Difference is he's much better than either Myers or Bogosian. The full article also doesn't mention Tanev.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/02/11/benning-on-kane-canucks-werent-willing-to-trade-horvat-virtanen-or-mccann/
SopelFan wrote:This is up there on his on his list of 40 injuries with the snake bite and the busted nut.
In reference to Salo hurting himself playing whiffleball.
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Post #163 by Vector » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:30 pm

Blake Price guesses that Benning's offer was Matthias, Jensen, Gaunce and a 1st. If they wanted Bogosian they would have had to add Tanev which is ridiculous.
SopelFan wrote:This is up there on his on his list of 40 injuries with the snake bite and the busted nut.
In reference to Salo hurting himself playing whiffleball.
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Post #164 by Tripwyre » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:32 pm

I don't think Blake has any insight into what was actually offered, it was more "how do you put a package together that doesn't include Virtanen, Horvat or McCann?"

Unless he is claiming that's exactly what was offered, in which case lol
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Post #165 by Ernie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:49 pm

aptar wrote:I think he falls into the category of type of player a lot of GMs would give a second chance to. Same with Kassian I guess.


No. Hodgson is still owed $19m over 4 years after this year. You don't give a "second chance" to a guy with a contract like that who can't stay in the lineup for the worst team in the league.

Kassian is on a cheap contract through next season and any raises he earns afterwards will be based on what he achieves.
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Post #166 by yumphod » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:03 pm

why even follow edwilles
:facepalm:
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Post #167 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:35 pm

Bruh, it was retweeted.
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Post #168 by aptar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:45 pm

Ernie wrote:No. Hodgson is still owed $19m over 4 years after this year. You don't give a "second chance" to a guy with a contract like that who can't stay in the lineup for the worst team in the league.

Kassian is on a cheap contract through next season and any raises he earns afterwards will be based on what he achieves.


I'd be willing to bet he gets traded before he gets bought out. Another GM will accept that offense is a premium and if you can deploy him properly, like with 2-way wingers, he could be a productive 2/3 tweener. Buffalo's problem is they want him to become defensively responsible, which will...ahh fuck it. I was advocating dumping this punk while y'all were still on his nuts. I can't even play devil's advocate with a straight face.
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Post #169 by aptar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:41 am

Botchford seems to think a package around Tanev is what it would take. Tanev is quietly their best defenseman, top pairing, getting better and makes chump change. I thought they should be aggressive on Kane, but I don't do that deal straight up.
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Post #170 by aptar » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:23 am

Kind of sad to see the Bruins like this. They've really fallen, as have the Canucks. It's a bit like Foreman / Ali. They were once great. The rivalry was intense and real. Now one is old and slow and the other is retarded.
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Post #171 by Vector » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:51 pm

Isles just gave Nick Leddy 7 years at 5.5 per. Relevant because of Tanev's upcoming contract. Not sure if Leddy was supposed to be an RFA or UFA after his current contract was up, though.
SopelFan wrote:This is up there on his on his list of 40 injuries with the snake bite and the busted nut.
In reference to Salo hurting himself playing whiffleball.
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Post #172 by aptar » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:27 pm

We're gonna hate Tanev when he's a $6m defenseman.
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Post #173 by Cao » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:28 pm

i will never hate chris tanev
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Post #174 by aptar » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:01 pm

Quick, trade Hunter Shinkauruk to Chicago.
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Post #175 by Vector » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 pm

WilliesBoys wrote:I can't believe Nonuts somehow traded Clarkson. Can't you just bury Horton on IR if he can't play? Seems pretty smart from the Leafs' perspective.


Columbus still has to pay him. I suspect that's a problem for their ownership.
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Post #176 by Vector » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:55 pm

WilliesBoys wrote:Just heard that Horton's contract wasn't insured. That's fucking crazy given his injury history. The again, maybe nobody would insure the contract


They play at the NATIONWIDE Arena. Hilarious.
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Post #177 by Cao » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:06 am

Connolly to Bruins for picks, so basically Boston has given up on acquiring Kassian for now

Unless Connolly is traded here haahahahahahahahahahaha
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Post #178 by Vector » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:03 pm

You can lottery protect 1st round picks in trades now? Fuck that's stupid.
SopelFan wrote:This is up there on his on his list of 40 injuries with the snake bite and the busted nut.
In reference to Salo hurting himself playing whiffleball.
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Post #179 by Hooker » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:02 pm

Huh?
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Post #180 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:26 am

Hooker wrote:Huh?


Was reading some articles and they were talking about lottery protected 1st round picks. Basically means that if the pick is eligible for lottery status, the pick isn't given until it's a non-lottery pick. Happens all the time in the NBA and its 's fucking stupid.
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Post #181 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:45 am

What does "isn't given" mean? The receiving team just winds up not getting the pick they traded for?
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Post #182 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 am

Hooker wrote:What does "isn't given" mean? The receiving team just winds up not getting the pick they traded for?


They get it as soon as it isn't eligible for the lottery. Basically the pick is delayed until then. The team eventually will get the pick.
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Post #183 by aptar » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:11 am

I'm so confused. What happens if the pick wins the lottery?
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Post #184 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:21 am

aptar wrote:I'm so confused. What happens if the pick wins the lottery?


I'm not sure. I just read a bunch of picks described as "lottery protected" but no explanation with what that means. I understand it in the NBA (they'll usually have a time limit and if the pick is still protected by the limit it becomes unprotected for the next draft).
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Post #185 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:24 am

Image
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Post #186 by aptar » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:30 am

If your pick wins the lottery the trade becomes null and you get your players back and their points are re-attributed to your team and all games they participated in become void and have to be replayed.
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Post #187 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:33 am

Are they gonna retroactively apply it to the Kessel trade after the next lockout?
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Post #188 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:36 am

It's not about winning the lottery. If the pick is eligible for the lottery, and it's lottery protected, the acquiring team gets next year's first rounder.
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Post #189 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:40 am

Okay, now I understand. That's always been in the NHL. It's called a "conditional first round pick."
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Post #190 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:42 am

Hooker wrote:Okay, now I understand. That's always been in the NHL. It's called a "conditional first round pick."


Could you do that where it was specific to where the pick landed?
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Post #191 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:43 am

Yes, and that has been done. In fact, I think you can specify whatever the hell you want.
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Post #192 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:45 am

Here's all the conditional information on 2015 picks. Look at that and tell me there's guidelines on how conditions are made: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NHL_Entry_Draft#Information_on_conditional_draft_picks
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Post #193 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:46 am

Hooker wrote:Yes, and that has been done. In fact, I think you can specify whatever the hell you want.


I thought the conditions were only if the pick is conveyed due to a specific set of criteria but not actually related to where the pick landed. I'll look into it tomorrow and see if I can find a good example.
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Post #194 by Hooker » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:50 am

The language is usually "this pick becomes some other pick if such and such team makes the playoffs," but since every team that doesn't make the playoffs is in the lottery, it's the same thing.
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Post #195 by Vector » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:56 am

Did some quick research. Bare with me as I am posting from my phone.

You are right, the condition can be whatever the teams want. The Flyers will receive the Lightning's 1st rounder if it is not the 1at overall. If it is 1st overall the Flyers will get the Islanders 1st rounder instead.

What confused me is articles referring to picks as lottery protected rather than conditional. Lottery protected is an NBA term with a strict rule set. The NHL does not have lottery protected picks but conditional picks that can have a form of lottery protection attached to them. This is what was confusing me. If NHL writers actually called things what they were instead of borrowing specific terms from other sports...that's asking too much.
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Post #196 by King Ryan » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:07 am

That was a lot of words.
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Post #197 by Tripwyre » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:17 am

One of Colorado's trades, I can't remember if it was the Varlamov deal or the Erik Johnson trade, had a protected first round pick in it. I can't remember the specifics, whether it was Colorado or St. Louis whose pick wasn't gonna change hands depending on how it placed, but the point is that this has already been happening for several years.

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