Post post-season thread

Winning in spite of ourselves...
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #451 by Hooker » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:40 am

Jyrki21 wrote:Yes, Wikipedia also notes a solution along the lines of "Imagine way more doors than three", I think. I think a lot of time the issue with the Monty Hall problem is a failure to point out that, yes, Monty knows exactly which one the right door is, and that will govern his actions.

RIght. This is sort-of my point. I've seen people who still don't understand the 100 doors explanation but get it once this concept is clarified. Meanwhile, I've seen people who still don't understand after explaining this concept but the 100 doors thing (or something else) does it. There's no telling what, if anything, is going to make someone understand. The "if only they had explained it like so" is how you also get wrapped up in a stupid argument.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #452 by King Ryan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am

Well, that was kind of my point too. If explaining it one way doesn't work, you have to try explaining it in a different way, not using the same way over and over again.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #453 by Vector » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:29 pm

King Ryan wrote:Well, that was kind of my point too. If explaining it one way doesn't work, you have to try explaining it in a different way, not using the same way over and over again.


I find this problem A LOT with people smart in a particular field. They can't understand why someone doesn't understand their logic yet keep trying the same thing over and over again. My engineer coworkers have a hard time explaining the particulars to me since I'm a history major working as a project coordinator.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #454 by Craig » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:20 pm

Vector wrote:
King Ryan wrote:Well, that was kind of my point too. If explaining it one way doesn't work, you have to try explaining it in a different way, not using the same way over and over again.


I find this problem A LOT with people smart in a particular field. They can't understand why someone doesn't understand their logic yet keep trying the same thing over and over again. My engineer coworkers have a hard time explaining the particulars to me since I'm a history major working as a project coordinator.


They totally hate you.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #455 by Vector » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:22 pm

Craig wrote:
Vector wrote:
King Ryan wrote:Well, that was kind of my point too. If explaining it one way doesn't work, you have to try explaining it in a different way, not using the same way over and over again.


I find this problem A LOT with people smart in a particular field. They can't understand why someone doesn't understand their logic yet keep trying the same thing over and over again. My engineer coworkers have a hard time explaining the particulars to me since I'm a history major working as a project coordinator.


They totally hate you.


I was the best man at one of their weddings and another is my 2nd cousin. :(
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #456 by Jyrki21 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:44 pm

My summary of HFBoards discussion:

Everyone who has shown a certain degree of intelligence agrees that Benning is not only stupid, but is fucking up the team now and in the future alike.

The few guys who appear totally unable to use reason disagree.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #457 by Cao » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:55 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:My summary of HFBoards discussion:

Everyone who has shown a certain degree of intelligence agrees that Benning is not only stupid, but is fucking up the team now and in the future alike.

The few guys who appear totally unable to use reason disagree.


It comes in some form of "LOL Canucks fans are so impatient, i'll gladly listen to the guys who have been in professional hockey their entire life"
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #458 by Jyrki21 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:12 pm

It's worse than that, though. The specific ways that arguments are formed are nonsensical. Things like "Sbisa could still turn out [so giving him a raise makes sense]" or "Mallet was a bad draft pick [so the Pedan trade was awesome]" don't actually bolster the points they're making.

Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason. The obvious explanation is that the hold-outs who still think Benning has an ingenious plan just aren't very rational.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #459 by Cao » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:03 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:It's worse than that, though. The specific ways that arguments are formed are nonsensical. Things like "Sbisa could still turn out [so giving him a raise makes sense]" or "Mallet was a bad draft pick [so the Pedan trade was awesome]" don't actually bolster the points they're making.

Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason. The obvious explanation is that the hold-outs who still think Benning has an ingenious plan just aren't very rational.

have you ever visited r/canucks? it's a cesspool of pro benning apologists. it's incredible to see.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #460 by Vector » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:07 pm

kmad is not doing god's work over there.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #461 by Cao » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:19 pm

ban kmad
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #462 by aptar » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:23 pm

We are witnessing something truly incredible. I don't think any of can really appreciate it. It's basically performance art at this stage.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #463 by King Ryan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:11 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:It's worse than that, though. The specific ways that arguments are formed are nonsensical. Things like "Sbisa could still turn out [so giving him a raise makes sense]" or "Mallet was a bad draft pick [so the Pedan trade was awesome]" don't actually bolster the points they're making.

Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason. The obvious explanation is that the hold-outs who still think Benning has an ingenious plan just aren't very rational.


I think there is a third group of people who aren't necessarily stupid, but seem to abhor consensus and have a higher need to be iconoclastic than to be reasonable. If everyone is bashing Sbisa they see some need to go against the grain and stand up to the groupthink that has made Sbisa a scapegoat for no reason. Orcatown, for example.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #464 by yumphod » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:28 pm

well redditors are smarter than everyone else :bettman:
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #465 by Cao » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:59 pm

King Ryan wrote:
Jyrki21 wrote:It's worse than that, though. The specific ways that arguments are formed are nonsensical. Things like "Sbisa could still turn out [so giving him a raise makes sense]" or "Mallet was a bad draft pick [so the Pedan trade was awesome]" don't actually bolster the points they're making.

Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason. The obvious explanation is that the hold-outs who still think Benning has an ingenious plan just aren't very rational.


I think there is a third group of people who aren't necessarily stupid, but seem to abhor consensus and have a higher need to be iconoclastic than to be reasonable. If everyone is bashing Sbisa they see some need to go against the grain and stand up to the groupthink that has made Sbisa a scapegoat for no reason. Orcatown, for example.


I can't understand orcatown's support of Sbisa. He was a good poster up until that point. But you're right in that some people just need to be contrarian because they want to seem like the smartest guy in the room.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #466 by rod stewart » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:33 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason.

a high degree of consensus doesnt really mean much to me. a season or so ago there was a high degree of consensus that edler and hansen should be waived. now it seems most people want higgins gone but can't articulate why. remember when hodgson was the second coming? and how we needed to become bigger and meaner after losing to [strike]injuries, collusion, inconsistent reffing[/strike] the big, mean boston bruins in 2011. sports fandom is mostly dumb narratives and cyclical talking points. anyway, im sure a large part of the fanbase thinks bennings an idiot just because of his inability to speak eloquently

for the record though, i def think hes a lost cause

King Ryan wrote:I think there is a third group of people who aren't necessarily stupid, but seem to abhor consensus and have a higher need to be iconoclastic than to be reasonable. If everyone is bashing Sbisa they see some need to go against the grain and stand up to the groupthink that has made Sbisa a scapegoat for no reason. Orcatown, for example.
sure is nice to hear well reasoned opinions, even if you don't agree with them. there's probably only what, a dozen hf canucks posters who can intelligently and convincingly articulate their point and back up their opinions. theres a reason my ignore list runs 100 deep
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #467 by aptar » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:39 pm

Oh look guys, it's Orcatown
:softie:
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #468 by King Ryan » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:43 pm

mark wahlberg wrote:a high degree of consensus doesnt really mean much to me. a season or so ago there was a high degree of consensus that edler and hansen should be waived.


That is an outright blatant fabrication and falsehood.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #469 by rod stewart » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:48 pm

aptar wrote:Oh look guys, it's Orcatown
:softie:

Image

King Ryan wrote:That is an outright blatant fabrication and falsehood.
you really gonna be a big gay pedant about such a nebulous phrase? do you really not remember a whole summer of MS arguing against everyone who wanted to fire edler out of a cannon? do you not remember the team going on a huge winning streak because edler was injured or suspended or something? how garrison made him expendable? how his back was fubar'd? how he probably wont waive his ntc so we should waive him and his big contract? heck even MS eventually wanted to waive him

and the hansen stuff was even more recent

i feel like im taking crazy pills
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #470 by Vector » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:59 pm

I'm confused what you think the consensus was. More discerning fans wanted Edler gone while everyone else defended him. This was the opposite for Hansen.

And no one was calling for either to be waived. For both cases people wanted them traded.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #471 by aptar » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:03 am

I've never seen the suggestion that Edler should be waived, but I also don't visit that site. Sounds more like vocal minority than any sense of consensus.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #472 by aptar » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:04 am

Agree its weird that suddenly Higgins is the go to, though.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #473 by aptar » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:59 am

Benning reportedly offering a 2nd and Virtanen for Correia.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #474 by Hooker » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:28 am

mark wahlberg wrote:
aptar wrote:Oh look guys, it's Orcatown
:softie:

Image

+rep
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #475 by King Ryan » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:19 pm

mark wrote:you really gonna be a big gay pedant about such a nebulous phrase? do you really not remember a whole summer of MS arguing against everyone who wanted to fire edler out of a cannon? do you not remember the team going on a huge winning streak because edler was injured or suspended or something? how garrison made him expendable? how his back was fubar'd? how he probably wont waive his ntc so we should waive him and his big contract? heck even MS eventually wanted to waive him


So first you say it was a "consensus" and now you say it was "MS against everyone." This isn't even remotely pedantic to point out that when it's one person against everyone, it's not a "consensus" no matter how much I like MS.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #476 by King Ryan » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:20 pm

Vector wrote:I'm confused what you think the consensus was. More discerning fans wanted Edler gone while everyone else defended him. This was the opposite for Hansen.

And no one was calling for either to be waived. For both cases people wanted them traded.


MS wanted to waive Edler. Literally nobody agreed with him. It's the furthest thing from a "consensus" as possible.

I don't remember anyone wanting to waive Hansen. Maybe utter morons like Jimson Hogarth.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #477 by Tripwyre » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:03 pm

I haven't visited that wretched site in several years and my life is much better for it.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #478 by Hooker » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:25 pm

I don't ever go to HF, but there was a lot of talk about here (including from me) about how Edler was terrible in the Tortorella season. I would have never argued for waiving him, though.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #479 by aptar » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:59 am

The most serious the move Edler talk ever got was in that brief window post contract before his NTC kicked in, and when Detroit and others might have given up big assets. It was a pretty reasonable but unlikely argument because it would have suggested a proper rebuild.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #480 by 19nazzy » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:35 pm

Well we can't have a proper rebuild now can we?
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #481 by Jyrki21 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:28 pm

mark wahlberg wrote:
Jyrki21 wrote:Benning's performance is as close to a slam-dunk issue with the team as I can imagine since being on message boards. There is a very high degree of consensus for a reason.

a high degree of consensus doesnt really mean much to me. a season or so ago there was a high degree of consensus that edler and hansen should be waived. now it seems most people want higgins gone but can't articulate why. remember when hodgson was the second coming? and how we needed to become bigger and meaner after losing to [strike]injuries, collusion, inconsistent reffing[/strike] the big, mean boston bruins in 2011. sports fandom is mostly dumb narratives and cyclical talking points.

I certainly don't disagree with this. But my point is that for all the differing viewpoints and philosophies on a number of discrete moves (e.g. Hodgson vs. Kassian, Virtanen vs. Ehlers, etc.) there is a very large majority of people who don't think Jim Benning should be in this position, and that's very telling. I'm not using argumentum ad popularum, I'm pointing out that the board is very united because this is a guy who has managed to piss off basically every divergent group (save for 5 guys who can't grasp ideas like probability and cause/effect).
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #482 by Killface » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:06 pm

Sutter extended for 5 years at $4.375M.

Way too expensive and way too much term. Pretty much what everyone expected.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #483 by Jyrki21 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:27 pm

Disgusting.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #484 by 19nazzy » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:23 pm

http://www.tsn.ca/canucks-name-weisbrod ... m-1.340796
VANCOUVER - The Vancouver Canucks have named John Weisbrod assistant general manager.
The club said in a release Tuesday that Weisbrod will work with general manager Jim Benning and president Trevor Linden on player personnel decisions, and will provide direction for the team's scouting.
Weisbrod joined the Canucks as vice-president of player personnel on July 7, 2014.
He previously spent three years as an assistant GM with the Calgary Flames and was director of professional and collegiate scouting for the Boston Bruins from 2006 to 2011. He served as a scout for the Dallas Stars during the 2005-06 season.
The Canucks also named Chris Gear as Canucks vice-president and general counsel of Canucks Sports & Entertainment. Judd Brackett was named director of amateur scouting, Ryan Johnson was named assistant director of player development and Mike Addesa was hired as an amateur scout.


:why: :why:
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #485 by Tripwyre » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:10 pm

Wait, THAT Ryan Johnson?? One of the most useless players of all time, but damn if he doesn't give himself disgusting injuries by being so bad.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #486 by Killface » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:39 pm

"Sutter gets $1M signing bonus each yr, full NTC first 3 yrs, modified NTC final 2 yrs (15 teams). Also gets a full NTC added to current yr"

@generalfanager
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #487 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:26 am

That's shitty for the other 14 teams that don't get a crack at fucking Benning over.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #488 by King Ryan » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:29 am

Killface wrote:"Sutter gets $1M signing bonus each yr, full NTC first 3 yrs, modified NTC final 2 yrs (15 teams). Also gets a full NTC added to current yr"

@generalfanager


WHAT THE FUCK
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #489 by King Ryan » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:35 am

Brandon Sutter has also been given 10% ownership of the franchise, and the building the Canucks play will be renamed to Brandon Sutter Arena starting next season. He will be the first player in history to be named double captaincy, as he will sport a C on both sides of his jersey.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #490 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:50 am

If your mandate is to cripple a franchise long term, it makes sense to overpay mediocre players and ensure they have NTCs
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #491 by Jyrki21 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:18 am

Anyone think the Sedins will really stick around beyond this season?

I also predict Thomas Gradin gets inexplicably canned sometime this year.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #492 by Craig » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:01 am

Honest question: Are the Canucks without the Sedins pretty much the Sabres?
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #493 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:16 am

Yes. They are the only thing between us and tankville.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #494 by Vector » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:31 am

Craig wrote:Honest question: Are the Canucks without the Sedins pretty much the Sabres?


Worse because the Sabres have actual prospects and young players that are worth something. Canucks have maybe 5 good prospects that are expected to play a significant role in 5 years.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #495 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:41 pm

Yeah that's true. My suggestion they should have brought in Buffalo execs instead of Boston was kind of sincere.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #496 by Vector » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:53 pm

aptar wrote:Yeah that's true. My suggestion they should have brought in Buffalo execs instead of Boston was kind of sincere.


But aptar, we did bring in a Buffalo exec. Whatever do you mean? :punchballs:
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #497 by Jyrki21 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:02 pm

If they had brought in a literal buffalo, its inability to make deals would have the Canucks in a much better spot.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #498 by Cao » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:11 pm

Would you rather have Keenan, an ok GM who players don't really like, or Benning, a shit GM who coddles all his players (except Kassian)?
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #499 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:26 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:If they had brought in a literal buffalo, its inability to make deals would have the Canucks in a much better spot.

Buffalo would be way better at negotiation.
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Re: Post post-season thread

Post #500 by aptar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:27 pm

Vector wrote:
aptar wrote:Yeah that's true. My suggestion they should have brought in Buffalo execs instead of Boston was kind of sincere.


But aptar, we did bring in a Buffalo exec. Whatever do you mean? :punchballs:


Oh yeah

:why:

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