Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #51 by King Ryan » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:28 am

I would be mildly impressed with Benning if he was true to his word and found a way to get Hutton and McCann/Gaunce on the team. Waive Vey, release Sbisa, it's definitely do-able. Won't happen though. Vrtanen will make the team as he was planned to do so since the beginning, and Vey will start the season on the PP while Sbisa bleeds goals with Hutton and McCann in Utica.

As we all would have predicted before training camp started.
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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #52 by Vector » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:50 am

aptar wrote:Do the pre-season home games sell out? Or are they pretty quiet?


It's been about 5 seasons since I'd willingly gone to a pre-season game. Then they were very much geared towards families. Typically those are give-away via company seats. Not as loud, probably technically sold out, but people don't care as much about the game. There will be a lot of people just buying merchandise or leaving early/coming late.
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Post #53 by aptar » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:53 pm

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I have like row 12 on the red line tomorrow and was wondering how douchy it would be to bring my 3 year old knowing we'd probably spend most of the time wandering the concourse before leaving early.
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Post #54 by Jyrki21 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:40 pm

aptar wrote:What are the criticisms of Virtanen? Is it just he was picked too early? If he was #12 would we be celebrating him? Big hitter and a finisher seems like a pretty good combo, even if he's not a playmaker (basically the anti-Kassian).

I have a natural skepticism about power forwards in general. Without actual data, my feeling is that they so rarely pan out, or if they do their peak is for so short a time, as to be bad investments as a general rule. But people are so seduced by the way they play (even though 1 goal created through power is worth the same as one goal created through smarts or finesse) that the market and scouts are constantly clamoring for them. Pat Quinn wasted a lot of first-rounders looking for big guys who could maybe play rather than guys who could play who could maybe use a bit of power.

Because Virtanen is a toolsy player and a local boy, he had two reasons to make me skeptical that he was being targeted for the right reasons. (If only Benning thought he was Finnish). I don't really watch junior hockey, so I don't pretend to have an informed opinion on the specifics (I was on Nylander's bandwagon, based really only on the reports and numbers), but toolsy players worry me because they are so much more likely to have a junior-dominating game that doesn't translate well to a setting where players are bigger and faster. Logically, we should rather a player who has shown success in spite of his tools than the other way around. And Virtanen sure seems toolsy in every way.

And when you look at the constant comparisons to past power forwards, a guy like Bertruzzi had success because he was a legitimately good hockey player (IQ), and the size (toolsiness) was just a bonus (I don't think him hitting a guy in the playoffs really hard makes nearly the difference that making slick plays with the puck does). He was constantly criticized for not using his size, just like 100% of non-Bruin-or-Flyer power forwards are, because again people somehow take style over substance. Kassian showed a lot of hope precisely because he was a better thinker of the game than Willie/Benning would let him be. Again, not relying on one's size to be good is a good thing. Taylor Pyatt had a simpler game, and unsurprisingly wasn't as good in the NHL as he was projected to be.

King Ryan wrote:What's annoying is that we basically picked sixth overall in a year where the biggest drop off in talent was after the top five, because of course we did.

2013-14 was a lot like the 1997-98 season in a lot of ways (mostly the introduction of a famously bombastic coach of questionable methodology riding one-time past success), and that was no exception. In 1998 (in foresight) there was a "Big Three" (in hindsight it wasn't so special after Lecavalier) and of course the Canucks had the #4 pick.
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Post #55 by aptar » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:51 pm

I still think Jim Sandlak will pan out.

It really speaks to the old boys club that they are still looking for the same prototypical player as they did in the 80s, despite the rules and game changing significantly.
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Post #56 by Cao » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:55 pm

aptar wrote:I still think Jim Sandlak will pan out.

It really speaks to the old boys club that they are still looking for the same prototypical player as they did in the 80s, despite the rules and game changing significantly.

"I'm a big believer of the fundamentals of the game and they haven't changed in 100 years." - Trevor Linden, President of the Vancouver Canucks
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Post #57 by Vector » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:42 pm

/shoots self in head
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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #58 by Vector » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:42 pm

aptar wrote:That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I have like row 12 on the red line tomorrow and was wondering how douchy it would be to bring my 3 year old knowing we'd probably spend most of the time wandering the concourse before leaving early.


You guys will have a great time. It's the perfect environment.
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Post #59 by Jyrki21 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:11 pm

Next season, wooden sticks only. And brown leather skates.
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Post #60 by Tripwyre » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:56 pm

Gaunce and Kenins cut. Potentially McCann too? Jared McCann is single-handedly saving my fandom right now so I will be fucking pissed if he's cut over Vey.
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Post #61 by aptar » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:00 pm

Jimbo has been a lot of things but he's generally true to his word. If he dumps McCann for Vey after that pre-season it will look pretty bad.
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Post #62 by Cao » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:41 am

Iain MacIntyre ‏@imacVanSun 1h1 hour ago
GM Benning on surprising rookie Ben Hutton: "On any given night, he has been one of our top two or three defencemen.”

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres 4h4 hours ago
Demotions of Gaunce, Kenins all but assures that at least one of Virtanen, McCann will make team. Also opens possibility of keeping 8 d-men

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres 4h4 hours ago
Also strongly points to Linden Vey making team rather than risk placing him on waivers down to Utica. #Canucks

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres 4h4 hours ago
Assuming D Biega is demoted, leaves 2 more cuts (1 if Higgins goes to LTIR). Hutton still likely to start in Utica but has outside shot now

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres 4h4 hours ago
Expect #Canucks to demote Hutton, Biega & Cracknell. They'll then put Higgins on in-season LTIR freeing up cap space to recall Hutton (1/2)

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres 3h3 hours ago
(2/2) So it is conceivable that Virtanen, McCann and Hutton could all be in opening night lineup, or on roster. #Canucks






Glad to see them acknowledge McCann and Hutton as the two best players in the preseason games. I think I would rather have Biega stay up and Hutton stay in Utica to get top pairing minutes (barring a hissy fit from John Negrin). Also shitty that Vey, who was the worst player in the preseason, makes the team in any capacity. Cracknell should probably make it over him.
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Post #63 by Hooker » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:45 am

Let's make the whole roster 19-year-olds.

Image
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Post #64 by Cao » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:59 pm

@benkuzma: #Canucks PP1: 22-33-17-21-23. PP2: 47-53-14-60-8.

lol just realized they're gonna give sutter the "linden vey treatment"
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Post #65 by aptar » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:24 pm

A more entertaining tire fire at least.
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Post #66 by 19nazzy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:55 pm

I do like to complain about how sucky it is being in the East while following a West team but I guess it does have its benefits from time to time. Found out today I get Gamecenter Live for free for the whole year because of my internet package with Rogers. I probably shouldn't even technically get it because I have an old discounted package from when I moved here but can't say I'll bring that up.

I'm intending on following the team this year more than I have in the past few years so it'll be nice having access to legitimate streams on an iPad, and not having to resort to different browsers that allow flash but don't block the 500 pop-ups on the websites with streams.
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Post #67 by Cao » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:58 pm

Glad you can take part in the misery with the rest of us
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Post #68 by 19nazzy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:23 am

I think that's why I'm excited about this year. Nothing like watching a train wreck.
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Post #69 by Cao » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:27 am

the Sedins are the best thing ever, and sutter is the only player I've ever seen bring their line down
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Post #70 by aptar » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:52 am

Sutter should be the 4th line center based on pre-rseason.
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Post #71 by King Ryan » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:00 pm

Originally Posted by opendoor View Post

They are that tight against the cap. If Cracknell is demoted and McCann, Hutton, and Virtanen stay up they're at $72.21M which is $810K above the limit. That's doable in the short term with Higgins going to LTIR, but once it comes time to activate him they're going to be in a pinch. Demoting any of the lower paid guys will leave them with ~$100K in cap space.

Any short term injuries that don't qualify for LTIR could put the team in a serious predicament. They'd likely have to rely on the "roster emergency" provision in the new CBA where they can temporarily recall near league minimum players even if they don't have the cap space. But that means playing at least 1 game without a full roster and then you're restricted in who you can call up. If that's their plan, it's not a very good one. Especially if any of the young players hit bonuses. Without sufficient cap space to cover them, they'd just get tacked onto next year's cap hit which is what screwed Boston.


Ladies and gentlemen, Jim benning.
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Post #72 by 19nazzy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:19 pm

Sbisa $3.6M
Sutter $3.3M
Dorsett $2.65M
Prust $2.5M

Ladies and gentlemen, Jim benning.
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Post #73 by Bim Jenning » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:37 pm

King Ryan wrote:Originally Posted by opendoor View Post

They are that tight against the cap. If Cracknell is demoted and McCann, Hutton, and Virtanen stay up they're at $72.21M which is $810K above the limit. That's doable in the short term with Higgins going to LTIR, but once it comes time to activate him they're going to be in a pinch. Demoting any of the lower paid guys will leave them with ~$100K in cap space.

Any short term injuries that don't qualify for LTIR could put the team in a serious predicament. They'd likely have to rely on the "roster emergency" provision in the new CBA where they can temporarily recall near league minimum players even if they don't have the cap space. But that means playing at least 1 game without a full roster and then you're restricted in who you can call up. If that's their plan, it's not a very good one. Especially if any of the young players hit bonuses. Without sufficient cap space to cover them, they'd just get tacked onto next year's cap hit which is what screwed Boston.


Ladies and gentlemen, Jim benning.

I started laughing straight up when I read that. So much for the much vaunted youth movement, unless they mean fucking Linden Vey, who is the same age as Kassian.

I can't believe we literally hired the dumbest fucking guy in the NHL to run our franchise. Seriously. Even Mike Keenan brought in Bertuzzi and McCabe. Maybe we can trade Linden for them again? Couldn't be as stupid, right?
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Post #74 by aptar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:00 am

Benning is so dumb, if he actually was fucking Vey, he'd let him be a top.
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Post #75 by aptar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:10 am



Corrado on waivers with Sbisa.
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Post #76 by Vector » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:39 am

Almost gave me a happy heart attack, aptar.
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Post #77 by Killface » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:05 pm

Corrado and Vey on waivers. Disappointing to see Corrado fall like he has. Nice to see management move on from Vey though.
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Post #78 by Killface » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Biega also on waivers. I'd like to get another look at him at the NHL level. He looks a lot more reliable than Hutton.
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Post #79 by Cao » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:23 pm

The real cuts should have been Sbisa, Vey, and Prust. But belief in toughness and grit (which Sbisa has none of) made us lose Biega, who was as good as Hutton, and Corrado, who deserved at least half a season in the NHL despite a poor preseason.
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Post #80 by Cao » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:26 pm

Very glad to see Vey gone, though. He represented stubbornness in management and hopefully Hutton makes Sbisa expendable in the future, though it's looking more and more like he'll be "replacing" Hamhuis.
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Post #81 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm

I'm hoping the Leafs take a chance on Corrado. Right handed shot that could do well with a change, and playing with one of Rielly or Gardiner.
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Post #82 by Vector » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:10 pm

LeafErikson wrote:I'm hoping the Leafs take a chance on Corrado. Right handed shot that could do well with a change, and playing with one of Rielly or Gardiner.


He might do well there if he gets picked up. For the last two seasons, his development has completely flatlined. Might be a candidate for a change of scenery helping his career.
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Post #83 by Cao » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:14 pm

Yeah I think he'd be a good pickup for the Leafs, though I'm not sure how much space there is on their defense. I read they didn't waive Robidas, which is surprising.
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Post #84 by aptar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:14 pm

Vector wrote:Almost gave me a happy heart attack, aptar.


I actually didn't mean to phrase it that way, I think I was half asleep bottle feeding a baby and typing on one hand.

I meant to say Corrado on waivers, while we still keep Sbisa.
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Post #85 by aptar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Killface wrote:Corrado and Vey on waivers. Disappointing to see Corrado fall like he has. Nice to see management move on from Vey though.

Maybe they think Corrado will sneak through, but you'd think he'd have some value in a trade. If they lose him for nothing, pretty poor management.
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Post #86 by Cao » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:17 pm

Irfaan GaffarVerified account
‏@sportsnetirf
Linden - "To be honest we had Jake penciled in, but Jared and Ben deserve to be here." #Canucks

good grief
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Post #87 by LeafErikson » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:39 pm

Cao wrote:Yeah I think he'd be a good pickup for the Leafs, though I'm not sure how much space there is on their defense. I read they didn't waive Robidas, which is surprising.


Supposedly Robidas is injured. I think injured is just old, and broken, but it'd allow them to put him on LTIR.

As far as Corrado goes, being he's a right shot, I could see him taking Harringtons spot, who still is waiver eligible. Leafs only have two right shots on D. Robidas, who isn't going to play. And Polak, who may end up being the 7th D. I'd like to see them take a chance on a right handed D who is young, and still has upside.
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Post #88 by Cao » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:51 pm

Ben Kuzma ‏@benkuzma 11s11 seconds ago
Willie D: "I was looking for a heavier fourth line. Vey wasn't really a fit. You have to defend or you’ll get matches that aren’t good."

how could u say that about ur own son
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Post #89 by aptar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:58 pm

What are matches?
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Post #90 by Tripwyre » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:31 pm

You can't say Corrado's development flatlined when he hasn't been given an honest shot at playing NHL minutes in three years now. He was ready to be a full-time NHLer two years ago and Torts sent him down so he could be a #1 guy in the AHL instead of playing #5/6 in the show. I have no idea why he didn't make it last year when Luca Sbisa is a thing that happens. He looked very good in his call-ups.

His camp wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. Hutton out-shined him but they could have easily had both and by Linden's own admission they chose not to. Did he regress, or did this regime just never really believe in him?
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Post #91 by Killface » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:49 pm

Corrado's preseason with Torts was the last time he looked good in a Canucks uniform imo. I thought he did pretty poorly as a call up since then.

I always disagree with people who think the Canucks have poor player development, but he's probably the one case where I can get behind that idea.
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Post #92 by Hooker » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:33 pm

aptar wrote:What are matches?

It's a gambling term. Sometimes, when bet every fourth pot, you get Linden Vey and Derek Dorsett out against Seguin and Benn. "I always get screwed by the fucking matches."
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Post #93 by Vector » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:27 am

Tripwyre wrote:You can't say Corrado's development flatlined when he hasn't been given an honest shot at playing NHL minutes in three years now. He was ready to be a full-time NHLer two years ago and Torts sent him down so he could be a #1 guy in the AHL instead of playing #5/6 in the show. I have no idea why he didn't make it last year when Luca Sbisa is a thing that happens. He looked very good in his call-ups.


I felt he looked terrible in his call-ups for the last two seasons and the reports from the AHL were that he wasn't playing like he should. Everything sounds like a young guy who's lost confidence or has battled a series of unreported injuries and hasn't been able to get back on track.
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Post #94 by aptar » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:12 am

Sounds like Luc Bourdon syndrome. Blow the bar sky high early then have everyone disappointed when you don't continue overachieving.
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Post #95 by 19nazzy » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:32 am

RIP
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Post #96 by Cao » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:06 pm

Corrado got picked up by Toronto lol
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Post #97 by Killface » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:08 pm

So we gave away Forsling (and Clendening), McNally, and Corrado is less than a year. #agegap
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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #98 by Cao » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:10 pm

Killface wrote:So we gave away Forsling (and Clendening), McNally, and Corrado is less than a year. #agegap


Yeah, but we gained Andrey Pedan, so it all evens out.
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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #99 by aptar » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:57 pm

Good thing Benning drafted Hutton.
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Re: Are you ready for some PRE-SEASON!?!

Post #100 by Killface » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:16 pm

Brandon "Gritty, Faceoff Winning, Foundation Center" Sutter is starting the season playing RW with the Twins.

Edler - Sbisa is a pairing, so there goes all the good Tanev did for Edler last year.

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