Murrica: fuck yeah

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9551 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:54 am

TittiesNBeer wrote:
chicpea wrote:wow. lotsa people against killing school children.
Yeah for now.

If the US didnt fix its shit after Newtown... it wont now


If the GOP donor class flips on this issue, it will happen swiftly.
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Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9552 by Dog » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:15 pm

jester wrote:If the GOP donor class flips on this issue, it will happen swiftly.


Do you even have a democracy, Jester?

:danson:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9553 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:05 pm

The NRA never will and the rest of them won’t get involved unless so many people get killed that they affect the bottom line.
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Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9554 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:30 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:If the GOP donor class flips on this issue, it will happen swiftly.


Do you even have a democracy, Jester?

:danson:


It's dubious, at times. An entirely public funded campaign system would be lovely.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9555 by TittiesNBeer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 pm

jester wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:
chicpea wrote:wow. lotsa people against killing school children.
Yeah for now.

If the US didnt fix its shit after Newtown... it wont now


If the GOP donor class flips on this issue, it will happen swiftly.
The NRA is too big a part of that donor class
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9556 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 pm

mooseOAK wrote:The NRA never will and the rest of them won’t get involved unless so many people get killed that they affect the bottom line.


The NRA is actually not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Important, yes. They have a strong, single issue voter Bloc that they control. But if the wider GOP donor class (like this dude in FL) say enough, the NRA will not be in a position to fill the gap. Much like other issues, the frailty of the GOP coalition leaves them beholden to these extreme factions.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9557 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:36 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:
jester wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:Yeah for now.

If the US didnt fix its shit after Newtown... it wont now


If the GOP donor class flips on this issue, it will happen swiftly.
The NRA is too big a part of that donor class


No it isnt. The NRA spent $60 million in 2016. The Kochs budgeted $890 million. The NRA is actually a relatively small operation.

(EDIT: and some of that money is getting investigated as laundered Russian money presently ...)
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9558 by TittiesNBeer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:44 pm

I just will believe it when i see it.

The gop.said after vegas it would ban the sale of bump stocks. Here we sit and it hasnt happened.

There is always talk about doing something but it fades away. Nothing is done.

If Newtown where the victims.were literally 4 year olds, 5 year olds etc... didn't change it, i have little faith in this changing a thing.

I hope im wrong.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9559 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:47 pm

I am not holding my breath, but I also don't remember a major donor (based in a vital purple state) telling the GOP that they will not back candidates that do not support gun restrictions. If momentum builds there, the GOP will change its tune real fast out of necessity.

This will also become an issue immediately, because the GOP is hoping that Scott can flip the other FL Senate seat.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9560 by TittiesNBeer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:52 pm

Scott is blaming the FBI. Hes not uttering a word about.changing laws in the state.

He did nothing after the airport massacre. Nothing after the pulse nightclub. He has an A+ rating from the NRA.

I dont think hes leading the charge on this anytime soon.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9561 by chicpea » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:55 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:
I hope im wrong.


Why? Fuck them. Bunch of fucking idiots from the get go. This is their bed. Let them lie in it. :trump:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9562 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:56 pm

TittiesNBeer wrote:Scott is blaming the FBI. Hes not uttering a word about.changing laws in the state.

He did nothing after the airport massacre. Nothing after the pulse nightclub. He has an A+ rating from the NRA.

I dont think hes leading the charge on this anytime soon.


Right ... which could reduce the financial support his campaign for Senate will receive. It will come to a head quickly.

The other thing is that this is ultimately on voters. I suspect a lot of the donors (Kochs, in particular) care a lot more about defending and enacting economic policies than defending gun rights. If it becomes apparent that the GOP is or will be punished for lack of gun legislation, that will further influence donor decisions.
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Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9563 by TittiesNBeer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:00 pm

chicpea wrote:
TittiesNBeer wrote:
I hope im wrong.


Why? Fuck them. Bunch of fucking idiots from the get go. This is their bed. Let them lie in it. :trump:
Im against seeing the innocent.children die.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9564 by chicpea » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:09 pm

Maybe read the bible, bud.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9565 by chicpea » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:18 pm

Another chink in the armour.
"Rick Gates is going to change his plea to guilty,'' said a person with direct knowledge of the new developments, adding that the revised plea will be presented in federal court in Washington "within the next few days.''


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9566 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:32 pm

jester wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:The NRA never will and the rest of them won’t get involved unless so many people get killed that they affect the bottom line.


The NRA is actually not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Important, yes. They have a strong, single issue voter Bloc that they control. But if the wider GOP donor class (like this dude in FL) say enough, the NRA will not be in a position to fill the gap. Much like other issues, the frailty of the GOP coalition leaves them beholden to these extreme factions.

The NRA doesn’t spend as much as the Koch brothers and rest of the whales but they spread it around to the point that they have about 200 Washington politicians on the payroll. The majority wins.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9567 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:39 pm

mooseOAK wrote:
jester wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:The NRA never will and the rest of them won’t get involved unless so many people get killed that they affect the bottom line.


The NRA is actually not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Important, yes. They have a strong, single issue voter Bloc that they control. But if the wider GOP donor class (like this dude in FL) say enough, the NRA will not be in a position to fill the gap. Much like other issues, the frailty of the GOP coalition leaves them beholden to these extreme factions.

The NRA doesn’t spend as much as the Koch brothers and rest of the whales but they spread it around to the point that they have about 200 Washington politicians on the payroll. The majority wins.


They all spread it around. Kochs are influential precisely because those sane 200 are reliant on them, Adelson, etc. The NRA is an important interest group, but it isn't nearly the bogeyman it is often presented as. That being said, that fact is only exposed if the rest of the GOP donor class says enough.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9568 by senate » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:35 pm

I can't wait for the Fox News to character assassinate those meddling kids.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9569 by mooseOAK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:43 pm

jester wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:
jester wrote:
The NRA is actually not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Important, yes. They have a strong, single issue voter Bloc that they control. But if the wider GOP donor class (like this dude in FL) say enough, the NRA will not be in a position to fill the gap. Much like other issues, the frailty of the GOP coalition leaves them beholden to these extreme factions.

The NRA doesn’t spend as much as the Koch brothers and rest of the whales but they spread it around to the point that they have about 200 Washington politicians on the payroll. The majority wins.


They all spread it around. Kochs are influential precisely because those sane 200 are reliant on them, Adelson, etc. The NRA is an important interest group, but it isn't nearly the bogeyman it is often presented as. That being said, that fact is only exposed if the rest of the GOP donor class says enough.

They won’t. No money in it.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9570 by jester » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:23 pm

mooseOAK wrote:They won’t. No money in it.


1) As evidenced by this FL donor, some of them do, in fact, have a heart.

2) If you are an elite donor that is interested in economic policy moreso than gun rights, and the gun position of the GOP begins to put the parties economic platform at risk (lots of money) ... as said above, ultimately voters need to force the issue.

I'm just tired of the fatalism. Dems, in particular, have to stop running scared. Numerous Dems just won in VA while supporting stringent gun control against NRA backed candidates. Make it an issue, put it front and center, and don't run from your beliefs. Make the Marco Rubio's of the world struggle to defend their position.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9571 by chicpea » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:31 pm

This may be a rather gruesome question but who pays for the hospital bills of people who get shot in school shootings?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9572 by clawfirst » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:37 pm

Nobody as long as they die
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9573 by mooseOAK » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:20 am

jester wrote:
mooseOAK wrote:They won’t. No money in it.


1) As evidenced by this FL donor, some of them do, in fact, have a heart.

2) If you are an elite donor that is interested in economic policy moreso than gun rights, and the gun position of the GOP begins to put the parties economic platform at risk (lots of money) ... as said above, ultimately voters need to force the issue.

I'm just tired of the fatalism. Dems, in particular, have to stop running scared. Numerous Dems just won in VA while supporting stringent gun control against NRA backed candidates. Make it an issue, put it front and center, and don't run from your beliefs. Make the Marco Rubio's of the world struggle to defend their position.

The donor class wants tax breaks from the Republican, first and foremost. Things like gun rights probably don’t concern them like they do the rank and file but some of them are religious nuts and want their agenda pursued.
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Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9574 by TittiesNBeer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:26 am

chicpea wrote:This may be a rather gruesome question but who pays for the hospital bills of people who get shot in school shootings?
The US is a country of health control and gun care
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9575 by PredsFan77 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:19 am

And the military
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9576 by senate » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:07 pm

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9577 by PredsFan77 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Why does Julia hate cilantro
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9578 by senate » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Probably because its real name is coriander. :colbert:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9579 by Dr_Chimera » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:08 pm

What was the logic behind these troll accounts anyway? If they were so into Bernie wouldn't they be retweeting him a million times?

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9580 by jester » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:13 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:What was the logic behind these troll accounts anyway? If they were so into Bernie wouldn't they be retweeting him a million times?


On the left ... The logic seems to have been shit stirring.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9581 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:14 pm

Shit stirring is retweeting Joy Reid? If the Russians were trying to piss off the left then great success!

I suppose this is all part of Russia's four-dimensional asymmetrical warfare; I couldn't possibly understand it.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9582 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:14 pm

Some day Americans will realize that they are the architects of their own destruction.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9583 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 pm

Pearl Harbor II everybody.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9584 by jester » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:Shit stirring is retweeting Joy Reid? If the Russians were trying to piss off the left then great success!

I suppose this is all part of Russia's four-dimensional asymmetrical warfare; I couldn't possibly understand it.


Trying to boost Jill Stein's vote and suppress black voter enthusiasm/turnout (both of which they were doing) is a subtle and good electoral strategy at the margins ... of a very close election ultimately decided by the electoral college.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9585 by jester » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:51 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:Pearl Harbor II everybody.


Personally, I think the general shitstorm of BS news on facebook is a much bigger deal than Russian purchases/activity. We know for a fact that there were a lot of folks making good money spewing fake news for profit on social media, and in many cases they were doing it not for partisan beliefs but simply to make a buck. That's a big deal.

That being said, I think focusing on the raw ad buy with the Russian information campaign is a bit of a red herring. A lot of what they were doing was amplifying already extant stuff, flooding the zone on twitter, etc. To what degree did those efforts push "fake news" and the rest and drive the narrative? That's a question you cannot answer with simple ad buys (this is, quite literally, what is so powerful about social media ...), but with data mined from facebook about how many folks had information put in front of them with the aid of Russian actors.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9586 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:53 pm

jester wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:Shit stirring is retweeting Joy Reid? If the Russians were trying to piss off the left then great success!

I suppose this is all part of Russia's four-dimensional asymmetrical warfare; I couldn't possibly understand it.


Trying to boost Jill Stein's vote and suppress black voter enthusiasm/turnout (both of which they were doing) is a subtle and good electoral strategy at the margins ... of a very close election ultimately decided by the electoral college.


I see neither a coherent/consistent pattern to these accounts (as apparent in all of the reporting) nor evidence that they had any real influence of the outcomes of the election.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9587 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:54 pm

And the use of Jill Stein as a punching bag is hilariously lame.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9588 by Craig » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:20 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:
jester wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:Shit stirring is retweeting Joy Reid? If the Russians were trying to piss off the left then great success!

I suppose this is all part of Russia's four-dimensional asymmetrical warfare; I couldn't possibly understand it.


Trying to boost Jill Stein's vote and suppress black voter enthusiasm/turnout (both of which they were doing) is a subtle and good electoral strategy at the margins ... of a very close election ultimately decided by the electoral college.


I see neither a coherent/consistent pattern to these accounts (as apparent in all of the reporting) nor evidence that they had any real influence of the outcomes of the election.


What's your point here? Russians didn't do a consistent job of trying to influence the election, so who cares?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9589 by TittiesNBeer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:49 pm

The election came down to less than 100k votes in 3 states. They didnt have to have much influence to have effected the outcome
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9590 by mooseOAK » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:10 pm

jester wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:Pearl Harbor II everybody.


Personally, I think the general shitstorm of BS news on facebook is a much bigger deal than Russian purchases/activity. We know for a fact that there were a lot of folks making good money spewing fake news for profit on social media, and in many cases they were doing it not for partisan beliefs but simply to make a buck. That's a big deal.

That being said, I think focusing on the raw ad buy with the Russian information campaign is a bit of a red herring. A lot of what they were doing was amplifying already extant stuff, flooding the zone on twitter, etc. To what degree did those efforts push "fake news" and the rest and drive the narrative? That's a question you cannot answer with simple ad buys (this is, quite literally, what is so powerful about social media ...), but with data mined from facebook about how many folks had information put in front of them with the aid of Russian actors.

The fake Russian news was liked and tweeted and shared million of times at no extra cost to them.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9591 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:42 pm

I think it's just difficult to feel sympathy for America on any subject never mind a little election meddling from Russia. #club_chim
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9592 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm

Craig wrote:What's your point here? Russians didn't do a consistent job of trying to influence the election, so who cares?


My point is that a) the scale of Russian "meddling" on social media is miniscule and b) it is not even clearly directed.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9593 by Craig » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:59 pm

I don't see why that's relevant, tbh. The big stories to me are if the republicans tried to leverage them for hacking or confidential information and the president's total inaction to punish Russia for attempting to meddle in the election. Whether they were effective or not doesn't really matter to me. The president declining to enforce sanctions against a foreign power he's accused of colluding with does.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9594 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:32 pm

Craig wrote:I don't see why that's relevant, tbh. The big stories to me are if the republicans tried to leverage them for hacking or confidential information and the president's total inaction to punish Russia for attempting to meddle in the election. Whether they were effective or not doesn't really matter to me. The president declining to enforce sanctions against a foreign power he's accused of colluding with does.


It's not even about "effective." If the Russian social media messaging is not clearly directed in one way or another then it cannot in any shape or form influence an election. I wouldn't even call what they did meddling based on available information.

This story is such a load of nothing and you just know it will be used to prop up some military bullshit.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9595 by Germz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:38 pm

The NY Times won't admit to agreeing with the Doc, but this article basically concedes that point and tries to re-frame more recent Russian social media involvement as maliciously 'stirring the pot'.

Different story I know, but not unrelated.

The bots’ behavior follows a pattern, said Mr. Morgan, one of the researchers who worked with the German Marshall Fund to create Hamilton 68, the website that monitors Russian bot and fake Twitter activity. The bots target a contentious issue like race relations or guns. They stir the pot, often animating both sides and creating public doubt in institutions like the police or media. Any issue associated with extremist views is a ripe target.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/tech ... d=tw-share
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9596 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:58 pm

The NY Times - albeit perhaps the best establishment paper in the United States - is really blind to its own ideology much of the time. For example, this paragraph...

One of the most divisive issues in the nation is how to handle guns, pitting Second Amendment advocates against proponents of gun control. And the messages from these automated accounts, or bots, were designed to widen the divide and make compromise even more difficult.


... uses ideologically-loaded language to claim - as if taken for granted - that compromise is what American politics actually needs at this time. The idea of "compromise" is the language of elites. Don't rock the boat is what it urges. Keep things status quo, incremental. Don't get emotional and let the grown-ups in charge take care of it. Whether it is on guns, on race, on healthcare, on student loans, you name it.

The mainstream media constantly sells this idea and rhetorically links activist calls for extreme measures on such issues with Russian propaganda. This is pure horseshit and you can spot it if you read carefully.

Russia is just a pretext for the establishment's war against left wing activists, who care about things like people getting better wages and not dying, journalists, and like-minded politicians like Bernie Sanders.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9597 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:02 pm

Also, hashtags that call for the boycott of the NFL are good. I don't give a shit if Russians are behind it. That league sucks and some people are just upset because the military relies on it for its recruitment.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9598 by AD » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:49 pm

I would also like to voice my support for #teamDoc
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9599 by jester » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:23 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:
Craig wrote:I don't see why that's relevant, tbh. The big stories to me are if the republicans tried to leverage them for hacking or confidential information and the president's total inaction to punish Russia for attempting to meddle in the election. Whether they were effective or not doesn't really matter to me. The president declining to enforce sanctions against a foreign power he's accused of colluding with does.


It's not even about "effective." If the Russian social media messaging is not clearly directed in one way or another then it cannot in any shape or form influence an election. I wouldn't even call what they did meddling based on available information.

This story is such a load of nothing and you just know it will be used to prop up some military bullshit.


But Russian activity and goals have been pretty clearly directed ... and not just in the US. France, for example.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9600 by senate » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:56 pm


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