Murrica: fuck yeah

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
User avatar
TittiesNBeer
Registered Broad
Posts: 4309
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm
Has given rep: 515 times
Received rep: 292 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9651 by TittiesNBeer » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:04 pm

Stormy Daniels suing Trump
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9652 by jester » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:33 am

TittiesNBeer wrote:Stormy Daniels suing Trump


A porn star ... suing the POTUS. Fucking amazing, right? Good on you, conservative America.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37354
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 128 times
Received rep: 366 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9653 by PredsFan77 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:54 am

He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.
CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
Boring Choice #2
Posts: 7458
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 1979 6:06 am
Has given rep: 484 times
Received rep: 476 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9654 by Boring Choice #2 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:59 am

PredsFan77 wrote:let him cast the first stone at her.


i think that's what got trump in trouble in the first place.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68587
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 603 times
Received rep: 671 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9655 by AD » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:51 am

Boring Choice #2 wrote:
PredsFan77 wrote:let him cast the first stone at her.


i think that's what got trump in trouble in the first place.


HIYOOO!!!

:trump2:
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37354
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 128 times
Received rep: 366 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9656 by PredsFan77 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:59 pm

The New Blacklist

Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it's become a way of targeting all dissent



Putin loves you; therefore, you love Putin. The enemy re-tweets you, therefore, you're in league with the enemy. We're at war with them, therefore we're at war with you.

One of the first rules of a shunning campaign is that it doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be what everyone's saying. Since most Americans went to high school, we tend to be instinctively familiar with the concept.

The crazy inverse logic of the new national blacklist was on full display after special prosecutor Robert Mueller indicted 13 Russian "troll farm" operatives in February. In the wake of this foreign meddling charge, CNN reporter Drew Griffin banged on the door of an elderly female Trump supporter named Florine Goldfarb and accused her of being a Russia-collaborator.

Goldfarb had attended a pro-Trump rally allegedly promoted on Facebook by Russian trolls. There were no Russians at the rally. The group didn't meet to discuss the subjugation of Abkhazia. They were plain, ordinary, Floridian Trump supporters – idiots, maybe, but not traitors.

Not according to CNN.

"That group was Russians," Griffin said accusingly.

"I had nothing to do with Russians," the old lady said.

"Maybe you didn't know it," Griffin countered, "but you did."

Nearly two years into the #Russiagate scandal, accusing people of being in league with Putin has become an almost daily feature of news coverage.

"Is it possible that we actually have a Russian agent running the House Intel Committee on the Republican side?" MSNBC anchor John Heilmann posited not long ago, referring to California congressman Devin Nunes.

The main source of the questions about Nunes was Hamilton 68, a website purporting to track the work of Russian social media bots in real time. An offshoot of the German Marshall Fund, the site represents an unpleasantly unsurprising union of neoconservative Iraq war cheerleaders like Bill Kristol and Beltway Democrats like would-be Clinton CIA chief Michael Morell.

Their Hamilton 68 "dashboard," easily accessible online to civilians and journalists alike, supposedly tells us what the enemy wants us to think at any given moment. Citing a secret methodology, it claims to track 600 Twitter accounts for their "relationship to Russia-sponsored influence," and regularly spits out mysterious conclusions about Putin's preferences in the American political scene. More and more often now, the site's pronouncements turn into front-page headlines.

When the dashboard declared that Nunes' #Releasethememo campaign had become the "top-trending hashtag" among Russian twitter accounts, a gaggle of press outlets and politicians rushed to point out that Nunes was doing the work of the enemy. (Even Rolling Stone got into the act, accusing Nunes of working "in concert with Russian propagandists").

Of course, in keeping with a growing pattern of Russiagate stories being quietly walked back sometime after the sensational headline, reports later broke that most of the Twitter furor driving #Releasethememo came from domestic Republicans – from "inside the house," as the Daily Beast put it. Even one of Hamilton 68's own was later quoted downplaying the story.

It didn't matter, because Hamilton 68 had by then moved on to its next set of headlines. The group that has seen Russians behind both left and right political causes, behind the Roy Moore Alabama Senate campaign and the decision of California Democrats to deny their endorsement to Dianne Feinstein, was soon a main source for stories about Russians playing havoc with the Parkland shooting in Florida.

The Russians, Hamilton 68 now said, were sowing discord on both sides of the gun control debate by pushing contradictory hashtags like #guncontrolnow and #NRA.

The New York Times put a piece about Russia's Parkland meddling on page A1, the choicest real estate in American journalism, and outlets like Wired, Newsweek, Vanity Fair and countless others trumpeted the same story. Even Fox News, usually a Russiagate doubter, got in the act, citing Hamilton 68 to say: "Russian bots aren't pro-Republican or Pro-Democrat. They're just anti-American."

Fox wrote the story in a way that used the Hamilton 68 data to make it seem like the Russians didn't have an exclusive preference for Donald Trump. But the defense of Trump was really a distraction. The palmed card in this propaganda trick was the mere fact that right-wing media, too, were now accepting the core principle of projects like Hamilton 68: that a foreign enemy lurks everywhere in our midst, and the source of political discontent in this country comes not from within, but from without.

This Russians-are-in-our-precious-bodily-fluids insanity has progressed to the point where an anti-Russian documentary won the Oscar and host Jimmy Kimmel proudly declared, "At least we know Putin isn't rigging this competition!"

If you don't think that the endgame to all of this lunacy is a world where every America-critical movement from Black Lives Matter to Our Revolution to the Green Party is ultimately swept up in the collusion narrative along with Donald Trump and his alt-right minions, you haven't been paying attention.

That's because #Russiagate, from the start, was framed as an indictment not just of one potentially traitorous Trump, but all alternative politics in general. The story has evolved to seem less like a single focused investigation and more like the broad institutional response to a spate of shocking election results, targeting the beliefs of discontented Americans across the political spectrum.

Two years ago, remember, the American political establishment was on the ropes. Donald Trump, a race-baiting game show host who'd run for office as a publicity stunt, was galloping to the Republican nomination in a rout. He got 14 million primary votes; the Republicans' chosen $100 million man, Jeb Bush, got 286,000. On the Democratic side, the overwhelming party favorite, Hillary Clinton, was fighting to hold off a Corbynite socialist with little money and even less institutional support.

From Trump to Bernie Sanders to Brexit to Catalonia, voter repudiation of the status quo was the story of the day. The sense of panic among political elites was palpable. The possibility that voters might decide to break up the EU, or put a Trump, Corbyn, or Sanders into power, led to a spate of "Do we have too much democracy?" essays by prominent think tankers and national press figures.

Two years later, the narrative has completely shifted. By an extraordinary coincidence, virtually all the "anti-system" movements and candidates that so terrified the political establishment two years ago have since been identified as covert or overt Russian destabilization initiatives, puppeteered from afar by the diabolical anti-Western dictator, Vladimir von Putin-Evil.

Since Trump's election, we've been told Putin was all or partly behind the lot of it: the Catalan independence movement, the Sanders campaign, Brexit, Jill Stein's Green Party run, Black Lives Matter, the resignations of intra-party Trump critics Bob Corker and Jeff Flake, Sean Hannity's broadcasts, and, of course, the election of Trump himself.

We've jumped straight past debating the efficacy of democracy to just reflexively identifying most anti-establishment sentiment as illegitimate, treasonous, and foreign in nature.

Forget for a moment what Robert Mueller's investigation might or might not ultimately reveal about Donald Trump and his staff. It's been impossible not to notice how effective the Russiagate affair has already been as a hammer against all other political outsiders, even those with opposite values to Trump. In fact, unless you're a Hillary Clinton Democrat, you've probably been portrayed as having somehow been in on it, at one time or another.

The earliest Russiagate news reports, like Franklin Foer's articles in Slate in the summer of 2016, mostly focused on Putin's seeming synergy with far-right causes: the Trump campaign in America, and nationalist, anti-EU movements in states like Greece, Bulgaria, and Hungary.

Very quickly, though, the Russiagate narrative evolved to describe leftists, libertarians, and other assorted malcontents as additional "useful idiots" for Putin. This really began with the ill-fated "PropOrNot" web site, a mysterious organization that was touted as an identifier of Russian propaganda in a story by the Washington Post three weeks after Trump's election.

The Post's carefully-written piece only talked about how PropOrNot and other groups identified Russian propaganda spread on "right-wing sites." But if you clicked on the paper's link to the PropOrNot report, you found it pointed a finger at over 200 sites of all political persuasions. Those included outlets as diverse as LewRockwell.com, Truthdig, Naked Capitalism, Antiwar.com, and the Ron Paul Institute.

That was followed by the release of a report by the Director of National Intelligence on January 6, 2017, which "assessed" that Russians were behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee. The conclusion among other things was based upon the security agencies' interpretation of programming on the Russian-backed channel RT.

RT stories about 100% American protests against fracking, surveillance abuses, and "alleged Wall Street greed," were part of "Russian strategic messaging" campaigns, the intelligence analysts insisted.

The DNI's bizarre assessment evolved with the birth of the German Marshall Fund, a Russia-watching organization similarly packed with former intelligence officials who bore the same cross-eyed conception of domestic protest.

The GMF's Hamilton 68 project, which was launched in August of 2017, has in its brief life continually blurred the lines between domestic discord and foreign intervention. It's accused the Russians of inspiring discontent about everything from police brutality to the Iraq invasion to the expansion of NATO. Think-tanks and pundits have increasingly followed suit, demanding that all good patriotic Americans renounce such "Putin-backed" protest movements.

A major target of this idiocy has been Sanders, who is already being pitched to the public as the Kremlin's next Manchurian Candidate. "When Russia interferes with the 2020 election on behalf of Democratic nominee Bernie Sanders," the Washington Post unironically asked last November, "how will liberals respond?"

Unless you really believe that Bernie Sanders is a Russian agent, it's incredibly suspicious that a major consequence of the #Russiagate mania has been the disappearance of progressive voices from traditionally blue-state media.

Papers like the Washington Post and the New York Times, as well as cable channels like CNN and MSNBC, still routinely hire Republicans and even Trump supporters as commentators to provide "balance." But there's virtually no one in the popular press representing the 43% of Democrats who cast a dissenting vote two years ago.

Still, you might say, it's all true! Russia did try to meddle in our election! We really are facing a foreign threat!

That might very well be. But the realness of a foreign threat in no way precludes Americans' ability to make a total cock-up of their response to it. That we could forget this is amazing, since we so recently went through an exactly analogous disaster.

Six months after 9/11, on March 11, 2002, George W. Bush issued a directive creating a thing called the Homeland Security Advisory System. This oft-parodied program used a color-coded billboard system – because Americans are too stupid to read – to tell us just exactly how afraid of terrorists we should be on any given day.

For seven lunatic years we toggled back and forth between RED (severe threat) and GREEN (low threat) levels of paranoia, until in 2009 the program was quietly scrapped. By then we'd already blundered into Iraq, destabilized the entire Middle East, helped give birth to ISIS, and sacrificed countless American and Iraqi lives for no good reason at all, thanks in large part to cynical government efforts to hype up public fears of Islam.

The color advisory system was ditched only after former Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge wrote a book, Test of Our Times, that included a damning account of the program. Ridge revealed that in 2004, Attorney General John Ashcroft asked him to raise the threat level days before the presidential vote, in an effort to help guarantee George Bush's re-election.

"There was absolutely no support for that position within our department," Ridge wrote. "None. I wondered, 'Is this about security or politics?'"

Ridge had never liked the system. When he resigned from the Department of Homeland Security in 2005, he told the press that his department often argued against raising the threat level, but was overruled by the Homeland Security Advisory Council, which included the heads of other security agencies.

Who was on that council? Creeps like Ashcroft, wraithlike Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and CIA chief George Tenet. Oh, and then-FBI director Robert Mueller, who also oversaw a sweeping effort to interview thousands of Arabs in America in a program that at the time was compared to our profiling of Japanese-Americans in World War II.

The Hamilton 68 "dashboard" almost exactly mirrors that Homeland Security Advisory program. It's a snappy-looking media-ready thingamadoodle with no real purpose beyond constantly reminding the public to be afraid of enemies in their midst. And it's run by many of the same ought-to-have-been-disgraced War on Terror yahoos who led us into the last mess.

Not only is the notorious Kristol of Weekly Standard and Project for a New American Century fame one of its leaders, but so is Michael Chertoff, the man who took over the Homeland Security department – and its asinine color-coded scare program – when Tom Ridge couldn't stomach it anymore.

That these people now are being upheld as heroes of liberalism is incredible. Only a few short years ago they were widely derided as the very dumbest people in the country, raving paranoiacs who humped every false lead from Niger to Ahmed Chalabi's hotel suite in order to justify invasions, torture, secret prisons and the establishment of a monstrous, intractable, and illegal surveillance regime. And now we're letting these same people dominate every news cycle when this time, years early, they're already admitting they might be wrong?

"I'm not convinced on this bot thing," Hamilton 68 honcho and noted War on Terror vet Clint Watts incredibly told Buzzfeed recently. This was after he'd helped place a string of Russian-bots-are-everywhere stories in spots like the front page of the Times.

Parts of the Russiagate story may be real. Sleazeballs like Paul Manafort and Trump are, like Putin himself, capable of anything. We'll find out soon what exactly they all got up to together, if anything. But we should already be able to admit that others – like the millions of Americans on both sides of the aisle who voted against status quo politicians two years ago – aren't, and weren't ever, traitors. And any campaign to label them as such is potentially more dangerous than anything, even a Trump presidency.



I hope they are following shredder, the future of journalism
CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
chicpea
Registered Broad
Posts: 17615
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: lagoons or ditches
Has given rep: 624 times
Received rep: 320 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9657 by chicpea » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:31 pm

Got two separate big Trump updates on my phone this afternoon while working. Little disappointed to come here and read...fuck all on either of them. Do your job.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37354
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 128 times
Received rep: 366 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9658 by PredsFan77 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:47 pm

like what
CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9659 by senate » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:00 am

User avatar
Dr_Chimera
Registered Broad
Posts: 21684
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:50 pm
Has given rep: 106 times
Received rep: 301 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9660 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:37 pm

LOL, it looks like Erik Prince is finally in trouble after more than a decade of war crimes because he has some links to Russia.



But neither party made much of an effort to bring him down until now. He was even on The Daily Show once during the Obama years. Here's Scahill's thread about this.

senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9661 by senate » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:36 pm

This will end well.

User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37354
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 128 times
Received rep: 366 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9662 by PredsFan77 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:39 pm

Jfc
CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9663 by Dog » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:44 pm

This will be so much fun.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9664 by Dog » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:46 pm

Watch them become best buds.
User avatar
Boring Choice #2
Posts: 7458
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 1979 6:06 am
Has given rep: 484 times
Received rep: 476 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9665 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:53 pm

don, kim and dennis all sitting down to watch a basketball game and eat mcdonald's.

and then donnie will go down in history as the man who made world peace happen.

:fingered:
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9666 by jester » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:59 pm

It's remarkable (but unsurprising, perhaps) that Trump and co. fail to realize that they are giving North Korea exactly what they have wanted for a very long time ... legitimacy on the world stage. And they're doing it with zero runway talks in advance, and a POTUS who cannot be bothered to read a PDB.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9667 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:20 am

jester wrote:It's remarkable (but unsurprising, perhaps) that Trump and co. fail to realize that they are giving North Korea exactly what they have wanted for a very long time ... legitimacy on the world stage. And they're doing it with zero runway talks in advance, and a POTUS who cannot be bothered to read a PDB.


My first thought was the same -the US’s long term position is not to talk to NK until they agree to drop their nuclear program....are they just agreeing to meet NK at the highest level and forgetting about US policy because they are idiots? But it seems that NK is putting denuclearization on the table. SK has played a leading role in this. This seems a drastic change of tone from NK. I’m of course weary. This could very well just be a ploy to play an uninformed Trump into making concessions or recognitions long sought by NK. Tillerson didn’t even seem in the loop yesterday (with his no negotiations comment).

Either NK cracked or they are trying to play Trump. Money’s on the latter, of course.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9668 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:04 am

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:It's remarkable (but unsurprising, perhaps) that Trump and co. fail to realize that they are giving North Korea exactly what they have wanted for a very long time ... legitimacy on the world stage. And they're doing it with zero runway talks in advance, and a POTUS who cannot be bothered to read a PDB.


My first thought was the same -the US’s long term position is not to talk to NK until they agree to drop their nuclear program....are they just agreeing to meet NK at the highest level and forgetting about US policy because they are idiots? But it seems that NK is putting denuclearization on the table. SK has played a leading role in this. This seems a drastic change of tone from NK. I’m of course weary. This could very well just be a ploy to play an uninformed Trump into making concessions or recognitions long sought by NK. Tillerson didn’t even seem in the loop yesterday (with his no negotiations comment).

Either NK cracked or they are trying to play Trump. Money’s on the latter, of course.


NK is not giving up their nukes. They are the ultimate defense against international intervention and regime change. You don't think Kim watched what happened in Iraq and Libya, and said, "fuck that shit!"?

Trump and co. are walking into a diplomatic coup for NK, largely created by Trump's ridiculous rhetoric that allows them to appear reasonable by contrast.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68587
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 603 times
Received rep: 671 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9669 by AD » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:11 am

NK was a punchline to a bad joke for 30 years. Now this.

:facepalm:
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39182
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 38 times
Received rep: 358 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9670 by Craig » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:14 am

I can see the logic of nukes being a deterrent, but I'm not sure I buy they're an effective one. For one thing, the 50k or whatever artillery pieces aimed at Seoul is probably enough of a defensive deterrent to prevent regime change. Nobody wants tens or hundreds of thousands of dead South Koreans. For another thing, nukes almost work against the deterrent. If the West get scared that they're going to be within range of NK nuclear ICBMs, they're much more likely to do something.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9671 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:17 am

Craig wrote:I can see the logic of nukes being a deterrent, but I'm not sure I buy they're an effective one. For one thing, the 50k or whatever artillery pieces aimed at Seoul is probably enough of a defensive deterrent to prevent regime change. Nobody wants tens or hundreds of thousands of dead South Koreans. For another thing, nukes almost work against the deterrent. If the West get scared that they're going to be within range of NK nuclear ICBMs, they're much more likely to do something.


And sacrifice Tokyo? That's 40M casualties right there. Any intervention would also require Chinese support, or at least acquiescence. Lot of big, in range targets there, too.

Food for thought: we are well past the point of no return, and NK knows it.
User avatar
TittiesNBeer
Registered Broad
Posts: 4309
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm
Has given rep: 515 times
Received rep: 292 times

Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9672 by TittiesNBeer » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:21 am

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:It's remarkable (but unsurprising, perhaps) that Trump and co. fail to realize that they are giving North Korea exactly what they have wanted for a very long time ... legitimacy on the world stage. And they're doing it with zero runway talks in advance, and a POTUS who cannot be bothered to read a PDB.


My first thought was the same -the US’s long term position is not to talk to NK until they agree to drop their nuclear program....are they just agreeing to meet NK at the highest level and forgetting about US policy because they are idiots? But it seems that NK is putting denuclearization on the table. SK has played a leading role in this. This seems a drastic change of tone from NK. I’m of course weary. This could very well just be a ploy to play an uninformed Trump into making concessions or recognitions long sought by NK. Tillerson didn’t even seem in the loop yesterday (with his no negotiations comment).

Either NK cracked or they are trying to play Trump. Money’s on the latter, of course.
Nk has often agreed to drop the nuclear program to get relief and aid from the US. Then they take the aid and dont stop the program. This is straight out of their historical playbook going back a long time.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9673 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:23 am

TittiesNBeer wrote:
Dog wrote:
jester wrote:It's remarkable (but unsurprising, perhaps) that Trump and co. fail to realize that they are giving North Korea exactly what they have wanted for a very long time ... legitimacy on the world stage. And they're doing it with zero runway talks in advance, and a POTUS who cannot be bothered to read a PDB.


My first thought was the same -the US’s long term position is not to talk to NK until they agree to drop their nuclear program....are they just agreeing to meet NK at the highest level and forgetting about US policy because they are idiots? But it seems that NK is putting denuclearization on the table. SK has played a leading role in this. This seems a drastic change of tone from NK. I’m of course weary. This could very well just be a ploy to play an uninformed Trump into making concessions or recognitions long sought by NK. Tillerson didn’t even seem in the loop yesterday (with his no negotiations comment).

Either NK cracked or they are trying to play Trump. Money’s on the latter, of course.
Nk has often agreed to drop the nuclear program to get relief and aid from the US. Then they take the aid and dont stop the program. This is straight out of their historical playbook going back a long time.


Indeed, it costs nothing to put bait on the table that you never intend to hand over.
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39182
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 38 times
Received rep: 358 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9674 by Craig » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:33 am

jester wrote:
Craig wrote:I can see the logic of nukes being a deterrent, but I'm not sure I buy they're an effective one. For one thing, the 50k or whatever artillery pieces aimed at Seoul is probably enough of a defensive deterrent to prevent regime change. Nobody wants tens or hundreds of thousands of dead South Koreans. For another thing, nukes almost work against the deterrent. If the West get scared that they're going to be within range of NK nuclear ICBMs, they're much more likely to do something.


And sacrifice Tokyo? That's 40M casualties right there. Any intervention would also require Chinese support, or at least acquiescence. Lot of big, in range targets there, too.

Food for thought: we are well past the point of no return, and NK knows it.


Tokyo has missile defense systems, which as I understand it (you know how I totally understand the science behind ballistic missiles) stand a very good chance of intercepting NK nukes. Also, there's a pretty realistic chance that in a first strike scenario NATO will completely wipe out their nuclear capability.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9675 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:44 am

Craig wrote:
jester wrote:
Craig wrote:I can see the logic of nukes being a deterrent, but I'm not sure I buy they're an effective one. For one thing, the 50k or whatever artillery pieces aimed at Seoul is probably enough of a defensive deterrent to prevent regime change. Nobody wants tens or hundreds of thousands of dead South Koreans. For another thing, nukes almost work against the deterrent. If the West get scared that they're going to be within range of NK nuclear ICBMs, they're much more likely to do something.


And sacrifice Tokyo? That's 40M casualties right there. Any intervention would also require Chinese support, or at least acquiescence. Lot of big, in range targets there, too.

Food for thought: we are well past the point of no return, and NK knows it.


Tokyo has missile defense systems, which as I understand it (you know how I totally understand the science behind ballistic missiles) stand a very good chance of intercepting NK nukes. Also, there's a pretty realistic chance that in a first strike scenario NATO will completely wipe out their nuclear capability.


The former is a bit of a dice roll ... with literally millions of lives on the line, and the latter I don't believe is true at all. The military options with NK are all terrible.

Nuclear weapons have destabilizing elements (from NK's perspective that is one of their benefits!), but even stronger deterrence elements.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9676 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:52 am

Greg is (unsurprisingly) exceedingly callous with human lives. My understanding is that you can’t take out artillery or ballistic missiles in one go. These things are mobile and hidden and firing will be in barrages as to not give up positions and keep retaliatory capabilities. With such large population centers, military action against NK is a non option. Kim won his nuclear gambit. The only question is whether he can successfully ease sanctions and normalize relations (to a degree). Which may not be the craziest fucking thing for the US. NK is purely defensive, they have no ambition or capability for expansion.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9677 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:53 am

My guess: a flattered Trump comes out of this praising Kim as a « great person » and threatening Japan who have treated NK and US auto manufacturers « very unfairly ».
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9678 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:56 am

The thing with intercept technology is that there is a fail rate (for sure), and we do not know what it is in a live fire scenario. A friend of mine worked for the program in the early 2000s (they've come a long way since then), and described the process as, "trying to shoot a cricket in space with a rifle."
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9679 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:56 am

Dog wrote:My guess: a flattered Trump comes out of this praising Kim as a « great person » and treatening Japan who have treated NK and US auto manufacturers « very unfairly ».


I assume they will meet in a neutral area, but man would he live a good ole NK military parade.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68587
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 603 times
Received rep: 671 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9680 by AD » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:08 am

This conversation is ridiculous. You guys realise that right.

What a time to be (still) alive.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9681 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:35 am

AD wrote:This conversation is ridiculous. You guys realise that right.

What a time to be (still) alive.


Have to deal with the world as it is, not as we wish it was.
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9682 by senate » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:19 pm

I never get tired of stories about how inept Trump's lawyers are:

User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39182
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 38 times
Received rep: 358 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9683 by Craig » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:01 pm

jester wrote:The thing with intercept technology is that there is a fail rate (for sure), and we do not know what it is in a live fire scenario. A friend of mine worked for the program in the early 2000s (they've come a long way since then), and described the process as, "trying to shoot a cricket in space with a rifle."


There's a difference between intercepting long-range missiles and short range missiles. If I remember right, we're good at the latter and bad at the former. Something about the relative speed of the target.

I think people grossly over-estimate how good North Korea are at hiding their nuclear launchers. The US ran drills for decades to handle this threat from the Soviet Union, so it's not like this is something they're new at. The North have like 5 bombs and their government is likely compromised by US assets.

The artillery, on the other hand, would be insanely hard to take out. There's no getting past that, but there's a real chance it could all be eliminated early in the fighting. Triangulating the source of an artillery shell and neutralizing it is something armies have been able to do for like 60 years, which coincidentally is when most of the North Korean artillery was made. Lots of Soeul will be damaged and lots of people would die though, for sure.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9684 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:31 pm

Craig wrote:
jester wrote:The thing with intercept technology is that there is a fail rate (for sure), and we do not know what it is in a live fire scenario. A friend of mine worked for the program in the early 2000s (they've come a long way since then), and described the process as, "trying to shoot a cricket in space with a rifle."


There's a difference between intercepting long-range missiles and short range missiles. If I remember right, we're good at the latter and bad at the former. Something about the relative speed of the target.

I think people grossly over-estimate how good North Korea are at hiding their nuclear launchers. The US ran drills for decades to handle this threat from the Soviet Union, so it's not like this is something they're new at. The North have like 5 bombs and their government is likely compromised by US assets.

The artillery, on the other hand, would be insanely hard to take out. There's no getting past that, but there's a real chance it could all be eliminated early in the fighting. Triangulating the source of an artillery shell and neutralizing it is something armies have been able to do for like 60 years, which coincidentally is when most of the North Korean artillery was made. Lots of Soeul will be damaged and lots of people would die though, for sure.


Those plans/drills were also a lot of wishcasting (i.e., "winning" a confronting between nuclear armed powers), and they also acknowledged the unavoidable reality of catastrophic loss of life in any conflict. There's a reason the Cold War remained cold despite a great deal of bellicosity.

I also think you are greatly overstating how much Western intelligence knows about the NK nuclear program.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9685 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:56 pm

I think we all agree. There would be very high civilian casualties and throw the region (a critical region) into disarray. The difference is that Greg doesn’t see this as much of a problem.

:danson:
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9686 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:59 pm

LeMay/LeGreg:

Image
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39182
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 38 times
Received rep: 358 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9687 by Craig » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:06 pm

Dog wrote:I think we all agree. There would be very high civilian casualties and throw the region (a critical region) into disarray. The difference is that Greg doesn’t see this as much of a problem.

:danson:


That's not really what I'm saying at all. I'm saying NATO might find that as a lesser problem than Nukes that can hit Los Angeles.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9688 by Dog » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:13 pm

Nukes won’t hit Los Angeles (because there is no strategic reason to nuke Los Angeles outside of an attack on NK) and taking out that possibility won’t be achieved at the cost of tens/hundreds of thousands of South Korean lives (and possibly Japanese lives) and throwing a vital region into chaos (China won’t stand idly by). There is no military option here. In fact, artillery targetting Seoul has already taken the military option off the table for decades.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9689 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:33 pm

This meeting happening is now 50/50 at best. Someone got in their ear overnight.
User avatar
chicpea
Registered Broad
Posts: 17615
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: lagoons or ditches
Has given rep: 624 times
Received rep: 320 times

Re: RE: Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9690 by chicpea » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:25 pm

jester wrote:Indeed, it costs nothing to put bait on the table that you never intend to hand over.


That’s the foundational philosophy behind 80% of my amazing trading in the BKL
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17500
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 10 times
Received rep: 102 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9691 by jester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:43 pm

This admin is such a gong show.
User avatar
chicpea
Registered Broad
Posts: 17615
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: lagoons or ditches
Has given rep: 624 times
Received rep: 320 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9692 by chicpea » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:20 pm

Looks like greener pastures for Mr Ty Cobb.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 03e0e39d92
User avatar
TittiesNBeer
Registered Broad
Posts: 4309
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm
Has given rep: 515 times
Received rep: 292 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9693 by TittiesNBeer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:57 am

"But Daniels apparently says something different. I’m told that in her 60 Minutes interview with Anderson Cooper Daniels suggests that Trump, how to say this, likes it when women aren’t nice to him, treat him in perhaps denigrating ways.

I think that would be very much off brand for Trump. It also puts in sharper relief why he and his lawyer seem to be fighting so hard to keep Daniels’ story under wraps. It also deepens my curiosity about whether CBS will have the stomach to air that part of the story."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/is ... we-thought

OH MY GOD

She's gonna confirm it, isn't she?

Trump is into being peed on.

The Pee Pee Tape is real.

Image
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9694 by senate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:33 am

TittiesNBeer wrote:Image


Image
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9695 by senate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:35 am

Tillerson was fired and Trump was as brave about it as he was with Comey:



Edit:

senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9696 by senate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:45 am

The new head of the CIA, Gina Haspel, ran a secret CIA "enhanced integration" facility in Thailand in 2002 and was instrumental in the CIA's decision to destroy its torture video records. But she is also the first woman director so it is a progressive appointment.
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7514
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 353 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9697 by senate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:43 am

User avatar
mooseOAK
Registered Broad
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:58 am
Has given rep: 29 times
Received rep: 246 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9698 by mooseOAK » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:32 pm

What do you expect when you work for a fucking moron.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 57070
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1621 times
Received rep: 1111 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9699 by Dog » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:38 pm

YOU'RE FIRED tweets.

Brilliant!
User avatar
TittiesNBeer
Registered Broad
Posts: 4309
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm
Has given rep: 515 times
Received rep: 292 times

Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #9700 by TittiesNBeer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:55 pm

This administration... what a gong show.

Return to “Le mur de messages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest