Murrica: fuck yeah

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8601 by pk shredz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:32 am

Well, this is good at least for those families.

Trump told reporters that the remains of U.S. prisoners of war and those missing in action during the Korean War will also be returned.

Trump said he asked Kim to commit to returning the remains "and we got it."

The president said he has received "countless calls" and letters from family members asking him to help them receive the remains of their loved ones.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... tails.html

He should also get our Navy ship back. :colbert:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8602 by Craig » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:42 am

chicpea wrote:While I would be happy to see a pause in the destructive nature of brinkmanship on the peninsula (no one wants to see Seoul in a fiery ball; I have a lot of friends and loved ones there), I cannot for the life of me fathom what advantage disarmament does for either side militarily - and that's what it comes down to usually.

NK disarming leaves them extremely weak and likely dependent upon the aid that will come with the dismantling. The US withdrawing all its troops, otoh, hands the peninsula and the entire Eastern Front to China, among other things.

I just don't see it.

That said, talking is better than threatening. And if Pompeo has climbed down from his ultimatum of immediate and complete disarmament, we will have a long period of stalemate, which is better than constant nuclear taunting, but much the same as has been the past ten years.


Total disarmament is a tough sell, but nuclear disarmament is potentially viable. NK get a bunch of money, essentially, to limit their deterrent to fucktons of artillery that threatens a huge chunk of SKs population. It's still an effective deterrent, but it gives the West a little more safety because they're not threatening Japan or California any more.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8603 by pk shredz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:57 am

Kim wants the international coverage or respect in his eyes, our bombers to stop flying nearby, troop reduction/withdrawal and security for the regime which would mean not giving up any military edge to South Korea alone. Notice how Abe has kept close and kept quiet. Lets hope Trump is getting behind the scenes guidance because for the benefit of us all, an overall reduction in tension is good and he seems intent on doing so despite how much we might disagree with the angle taken. Human rights are not a concern of any US regimes anymore. They just Tweet a rare apology. They admit to only like a small fraction of the actual toll of civilian deaths in every arena of war open today.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8604 by pk shredz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:08 pm

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8605 by mooseOAK » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:22 pm

Republicans have been wringing their hands about the growing Chinese military presence in that area and now Trump wants to abdicate the historical US responsibility to their allies. Must be more than one copy of the pee pee tape around.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8606 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm

They apologized to Trudeau, sorta.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8607 by jester » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:10 pm

Craig wrote:
chicpea wrote:While I would be happy to see a pause in the destructive nature of brinkmanship on the peninsula (no one wants to see Seoul in a fiery ball; I have a lot of friends and loved ones there), I cannot for the life of me fathom what advantage disarmament does for either side militarily - and that's what it comes down to usually.

NK disarming leaves them extremely weak and likely dependent upon the aid that will come with the dismantling. The US withdrawing all its troops, otoh, hands the peninsula and the entire Eastern Front to China, among other things.

I just don't see it.

That said, talking is better than threatening. And if Pompeo has climbed down from his ultimatum of immediate and complete disarmament, we will have a long period of stalemate, which is better than constant nuclear taunting, but much the same as has been the past ten years.


Total disarmament is a tough sell, but nuclear disarmament is potentially viable. NK get a bunch of money, essentially, to limit their deterrent to fucktons of artillery that threatens a huge chunk of SKs population. It's still an effective deterrent, but it gives the West a little more safety because they're not threatening Japan or California any more.


Yeah, I'll be fucking shocked if they ever give up their nukes. Nukes just bought em a meeting with POTUS, and a handful of concessions.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8608 by senate » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:45 pm

4-D chess has nothing on Go.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8609 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:07 pm

Dog wrote:
mayoradamwest wrote:They apologized to Trudeau, sorta.


Navarro clearly did for his « special place in hell » comment. More telling is that he stated that they are trying to project strenght, he just had a poor choice of words.


Yeah... I dunno, sorry but I was projecting strength is a shitty apology. :rudy:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8610 by senate » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:07 pm

Dog wrote:What’s the dual-track approach?


I think it means that the US, and maybe the South Koreans, have to give military/security concessions in exchange for North Korean denuclearization. So, North Korea only has to give up its nukes and ICBMs if the US leaves and the South Korean military gets weaker.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8611 by jester » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:24 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:

Total disarmament is a tough sell, but nuclear disarmament is potentially viable. NK get a bunch of money, essentially, to limit their deterrent to fucktons of artillery that threatens a huge chunk of SKs population. It's still an effective deterrent, but it gives the West a little more safety because they're not threatening Japan or California any more.


Yeah, I'll be fucking shocked if they ever give up their nukes. Nukes just bought em a meeting with POTUS, and a handful of concessions.


What’s your take on this, Jester? The administration actually expecting full denuclearization and inspections and whatnot and will get angry when/if they encounter resistance or they are fine with more cosmetic measures and banking on buying Kim to being less belligerent?

Or is this just about Trump towers on those beautiful north korean beaches?

:danson:


I think Trump is a fool, and his NSA doesn't care because he'd prefer to drop bombs anyway. I also think Trump just cares about "wins," but that is a truly incoherent term. Scrapping the Iran deal and then doing this shit makes literally zero fucking sense. You add on that Trump was likely stung a bit about the G-7 coverage, so that added to the necessity to get a good outcome here.

Meanwhile, North Korea and China are getting exactly what they want across the board. Kim is going to string this along, but he isn't giving up his nukes.

I mean, in all seriousness, if you just consider the rhetoric directed at Trudeau and the "honor" of meeting a murderous despot ... fuck this guy. You meet with North Korea because it's the prudent thing to do, but there is nothing to celebrate at the personal level. The man is a monster and he runs a monstrous regime.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8612 by senate » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:The man is a monster and he runs a monstrous regime.


Who are you talking about?

:trump:


I assumed Trudeau.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8613 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:15 pm

I’m glad peace can be achieved by trading military promises for photo ops.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8614 by senate » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Dog wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised that Trump is ready to pull out of the Korean Peninsula. He probably just sees it as an unecessary expense. I would be shocked if the US military/congress/security establishment would, though.


Republicans aren't going to risk their reelection by offending Trump's supporters over something so silly and trivial like the national security of the United States of America.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8615 by WTF » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:58 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:I’m glad peace can be achieved by trading military promises for photo ops.


It wouldn't surprise me if there was some shitty real estate involved as well.

Cui bono?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8616 by Craig » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Suspending drills is one thing, and really not that bad in exchange for nukes. Pulling out of Korea entirely is bonkers. No way even Trump would do that.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8617 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:53 pm

Craig wrote:Suspending drills is one thing, and really not that bad in exchange for nukes. Pulling out of Korea entirely is bonkers. No way even Trump would do that.


Was it really done in exchange for nukes? Someone should give him the Iran deal and tell him it’s the Trump plan for peace...
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8618 by chicpea » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:21 pm

Craig wrote:Suspending drills is one thing, and really not that bad in exchange for nukes.


Only one of the above is on the table as far as I know. NK is not giving up nukes. They may destroy a symbolic "site" according to what I've read.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8619 by WTF » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 pm

Dog wrote:Maybe he intends to only pulls out half way?

:dunno:


Cohen's in enough trouble as it is. He doesn't have time for this shit.

:trump:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8620 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 pm

Regan and Mulroney had a special relationship...

At least trump isn’t friends with Brian Mulroney.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8621 by pk shredz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:41 pm

They are still having exercises with South Korea.

Lawmakers, too, were looking for details. Republicans emerged from a meeting with Vice President Mike Pence wanting more information on which exercises were on hold. Colorado Sen. Corey Gardner said Pence told them that small-scale exercises would continue, but “war games will not.” Pence’s spokeswoman later denied that comment.

“There will be certain exercises that will continue.” Gardner told AP, adding he hoped “there’s further clarification what that means.” https://apnews.com/2d80cb7d512c49978e69 ... -are-scant
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8622 by senate » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:36 pm

I wonder if the TV on Airforce One showed this.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8623 by PredsFan77 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:37 pm

CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8624 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:51 pm

Nobel Peace Prize to Trump confirmed.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8625 by pk shredz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:04 am

No matter what happens. We Broads gotta stick together. Broads Army if our Red Orange Dawn occurs.



Big D will be planting the Pumpkin IED's produced by RP :lemaire_scold:
Craig and Claw will run our recon through drones/AI
Predo and RTWAP in charge of the disinformation/electronic warfare campaign
Dog and AD our spies.
Chimera will also be a spy as a fake defector to the Russian/Trump axis feeding us their coordinates.
Chicpea in charge of propaganda as he is a masterful writer.
Senate can run the social media along with Boozer and Maw.
jester and MooseOak as Commanders.

Everyone else including me is cannon fodder unless you have a specific role in mind. Run it by General Artie.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8626 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:Nobel Peace Prize to Trump confirmed.


GIVE HIM TWO
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8627 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 am

Imagine if we had Hillary bombing the hell out of some shithole in the Muslimistan and the whole liberal press going bubblegum... we would be bin right now, because we're bin when the liberal press tells us to be bin.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8628 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:58 am

Cohen’s lawyers quit. Reported he’s likely the cooperate with prosecutors
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8629 by pk shredz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:12 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:Nobel Peace Prize to Trump confirmed.


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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8630 by jester » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:28 pm

Dog wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:Imagine if we had Hillary bombing the hell out of some shithole in the Muslimistan and the whole liberal press going bubblegum... we would be bin right now, because we're bin when the liberal press tells us to be bin.


You’re like much better than this, whatever this ironic parroting of alt-right platitudes is.

If Trump is pursuing/willing to settle for some form of containment strategy, then this is fine.

If he thinks he can buy Kim with promises of condos to denuclearize and will feel double crossed when his « deal » doesn’t materialize, then we are in a whole heap of trouble.

The problem is that it’s now become extremely personal for Trump. He’s staked his personal credibility on this. IMHO, the situation with NK is now vastly more dangerous than it was under a tense containment strategy.

Lindsey Graham was on tv yesterday saying that Trump (as he) has ruled out a containment option and this is basically a last ditch attempt by Trump to make a deal before military action. That could just be a bluff/messaging to NK, but look at the stupid prep that went into this, doesn’t it very much feel like Trump thinks he can sell this as a real estate development deal? That would be incredibly naive, but there he was in front of the whole world exuding supreme confidence (and staking his personal brand) on being able to sell this to Kim. It actually looks the reverse, Trump was actually sold Kim and bought it completely because he’s a narcissistic fool. How is that likely to play out when Kim starts reneging and feet dragging and Trump starts thinking he’s being made a fool of? With people like John Bolton as NSA?

Do you think this is a well thought out containment strategy or does it seem more like Trump being Trump thinking he can close this deal with his extraordinary salesmanship abilities...as witnessed by that cringe worthy video where he evidently thinks he’s talking to a poor peasant?


Graham isn't bluffing ... he's that much of a dipshit hawk. Happily, I don't think he represents much of a voting bloc in Congress.

Trump viewing everything as transactional is very dangerous in this area, as it fails to capture some of the more salient security elements at play. Real estate deals mean fuck all to Kim if it weakens his position. Guys like him end up dangling from ropes on the regular.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8631 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:00 pm

Dog wrote:Trump’s out tweeting that there is no longer a nuclear threat in NK. Like, seriously? Is he going to just pretend denuclearization?


To be fair, Obama did less for his nobel peace prize
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8632 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
You’re like much better than this, whatever this ironic parroting of alt-right platitudes is.

If Trump is pursuing/willing to settle for some form of containment strategy, then this is fine.

If he thinks he can buy Kim with promises of condos to denuclearize and will feel double crossed when his « deal » doesn’t materialize, then we are in a whole heap of trouble.

The problem is that it’s now become extremely personal for Trump. He’s staked his personal credibility on this. IMHO, the situation with NK is now vastly more dangerous than it was under a tense containment strategy.

Lindsey Graham was on tv yesterday saying that Trump (as he) has ruled out a containment option and this is basically a last ditch attempt by Trump to make a deal before military action. That could just be a bluff/messaging to NK, but look at the stupid prep that went into this, doesn’t it very much feel like Trump thinks he can sell this as a real estate development deal? That would be incredibly naive, but there he was in front of the whole world exuding supreme confidence (and staking his personal brand) on being able to sell this to Kim. It actually looks the reverse, Trump was actually sold Kim and bought it completely because he’s a narcissistic fool. How is that likely to play out when Kim starts reneging and feet dragging and Trump starts thinking he’s being made a fool of? With people like John Bolton as NSA?

Do you think this is a well thought out containment strategy or does it seem more like Trump being Trump thinking he can close this deal with his extraordinary salesmanship abilities...as witnessed by that cringe worthy video where he evidently thinks he’s talking to a poor peasant?


Graham isn't bluffing ... he's that much of a dipshit hawk. Happily, I don't think he represents much of a voting bloc in Congress.

Trump viewing everything as transactional is very dangerous in this area, as it fails to capture some of the more salient security elements at play. Real estate deals mean fuck all to Kim if it weakens his position. Guys like him end up dangling from ropes on the regular.


That video must have been so freaking insulting to Kim. NK/China must not believe their luck. The guy (the potus!) actually thinks he can sell this like a condo development deal. That has got to be the most ridiculous foreign policy approach ever.


Hey, maybe they had good intel on Kim’s vision board.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8633 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Dog wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:Imagine if we had Hillary bombing the hell out of some shithole in the Muslimistan and the whole liberal press going bubblegum... we would be bin right now, because we're bin when the liberal press tells us to be bin.


You’re like much better than this, whatever this ironic parroting of alt-right platitudes is.

If Trump is pursuing/willing to settle for some form of containment strategy, then this is fine.

If he thinks he can buy Kim with promises of condos to denuclearize and will feel double crossed when his « deal » doesn’t materialize, then we are in a whole heap of trouble.

The problem is that it’s now become extremely personal for Trump. He’s staked his personal credibility on this. IMHO, the situation with NK is now vastly more dangerous than it was under a tense containment strategy.

Lindsey Graham was on tv yesterday saying that Trump (as he) has ruled out a containment option and this is basically a last ditch attempt by Trump to make a deal before military action. That could just be a bluff/messaging to NK, but look at the stupid prep that went into this, doesn’t it very much feel like Trump thinks he can sell this as a real estate development deal? That would be incredibly naive, but there he was in front of the whole world exuding supreme confidence (and staking his personal brand) on being able to sell this to Kim. It actually looks the reverse, Trump was actually sold Kim and bought it completely because he’s a narcissistic fool. How is that likely to play out when Kim starts reneging and feet dragging and Trump starts thinking he’s being made a fool of? With people like John Bolton as NSA?

Do you think this is a well thought out containment strategy or does it seem more like Trump being Trump thinking he can close this deal with his extraordinary salesmanship abilities...as witnessed by that cringe worthy video where he evidently thinks he’s talking to a poor peasant?


So I'm now alt-right (and quasi-nazi!!!) for pointing out that Clinton is a warmonger and that the press is too often complicit in promoting wars. Oh well..As for Best Korea, I always prefer dialogue to unlimited sanctions. I have no idea if Trump actually has a plan, but I do think that by at least having a solid channel of communication in place, there is a better chance of getting out of the 50 year long dead-end we're stuck in. I also believe that you exaggerate the roles of individual leaders in this type of process, and that you exaggerate the stupidity of both of them. I don't think that Kim is a super villain who's about to nuke the world or that Trump is as much of an imbecile as we portray him. In the end, I also think that it should be up to peoples of Korea to reach an agreement, not people in Beijing or Washington.. although that might be wishful thinking.

I see this summit as simply a first step in the right direction, I don't expect any concrete agreement or significant advancement in either denuclearization, reunification or american withdrawal from the peninsula. It's just the first step, of a very lengthy and complex process. All I wish from here is that there's a continuity with the next american administration and not a sudden change of policy like we saw with Cuba.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8634 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:54 pm

I find it strange how obsessed with Clinton people are. I mean, Bob Dole sold Viagra after he lost. Gore made documentaries.... McCain donated his spine for a few years.... Yet Hilary Clinton became a constant foil or straw woman to hold up every day.

I guess holding election losers to account is an idea, though I'd suggest that if you needed to do that the people IN power might be more relevant...
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8635 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:03 pm

Hilary Clinton should sell viagara.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8636 by clawfirst » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:16 pm

Something something made hard joke
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8637 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:26 pm

Dog wrote:Nick, what I said is that you came in here parroting alt-right speaking points. Remember, it was in response to you coming into the thread, offering nothing of substance, and just saying « But Clinton, warmonger, you’d applaud because liberal media controls yer mind ». What is that if not alt-right nonesense? I doubt many here supported the Iraq war even back when the « liberal media » suported it, I know I certainly didn’t. Nor would most here argue that Clinton wasn’t hawkish. Also, wtf does Clinton have to do with anything here? Your posts, to which I responded, was just unproductive banter.

It’s like anything. Offer your point of view, argue your case. That’s all good. Offer nothing but « clinton, lock her up!!! brainwashed libruls!!!11 » and that’s not so good.


I just find incredible how the press goes silent when Obama/Clinton bomb Libya and Syria but goes bananas because Trump tries to establish a dialogue with North Korea... yet it applauds the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine. It's also a critique what the left has become, hating the working mens and loving humanitarian bombings. Iraq was the last major event when the left actually spoke and acted like the left.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8638 by Retardé S » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:29 pm

We are on the verge of world peace, and you people desperately discredit lord Trump on the basis of his condo selling ability. Sad.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8639 by chicpea » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:48 pm

Slick Nick wrote:I just find incredible how the press goes silent when Obama/Clinton bomb Libya and Syria but goes bananas because Trump tries to establish a dialogue with North Korea... yet it applauds the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine. It's also a critique what the left has become, hating the working mens and loving humanitarian bombings. Iraq was the last major event when the left actually spoke and acted like the left.


I don't recall applauding the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine, but I'm glad that's how you remember it.

That said, I don't recall you lambasting the annexation of Crimea either - and you may have, though that is somewhat doubtful.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8640 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:07 pm

chicpea wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:I just find incredible how the press goes silent when Obama/Clinton bomb Libya and Syria but goes bananas because Trump tries to establish a dialogue with North Korea... yet it applauds the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine. It's also a critique what the left has become, hating the working mens and loving humanitarian bombings. Iraq was the last major event when the left actually spoke and acted like the left.


I don't recall applauding the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine, but I'm glad that's how you remember it.

That said, I don't recall you lambasting the annexation of Crimea either - and you may have, though that is somewhat doubtful.


There would have been no annexation of Crimea or war in Ukraine had the world listened to Russia's concerns and actually supported a democratic process in Ukraine instead of vouching for an illegal seizure of power by people among which could be found not quasi but literal nazis... again, the result of unilateral politics. And if you love Ukraine as I think you do, the last thing you want to see happening right now is the sales of advanced weapons to Kiev, because it could end in an very very ugly way...
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8641 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 pm

Save us, Frank Fukuyama. Image
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8642 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:24 pm

Shawnathan Horcoff wrote:Save us, Frank Fukuyama. Image


He retired after history ended.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8643 by PredsFan77 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:I find it strange how obsessed with Clinton people are. I mean, Bob Dole sold Viagra after he lost. Gore made documentaries.... McCain donated his spine for a few years.... Yet Hilary Clinton became a constant foil or straw woman to hold up every day.

I guess holding election losers to account is an idea, though I'd suggest that if you needed to do that the people IN power might be more relevant...


History is written by the victors.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8644 by mayoradamwest » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:56 pm

PredsFan77 wrote:
mayoradamwest wrote:I find it strange how obsessed with Clinton people are. I mean, Bob Dole sold Viagra after he lost. Gore made documentaries.... McCain donated his spine for a few years.... Yet Hilary Clinton became a constant foil or straw woman to hold up every day.

I guess holding election losers to account is an idea, though I'd suggest that if you needed to do that the people IN power might be more relevant...


History is written by the victors.


History is generally written by losers off to the side :colbert:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8645 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Dog wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:
chicpea wrote:
I don't recall applauding the sales of lethal weapons to Ukraine, but I'm glad that's how you remember it.

That said, I don't recall you lambasting the annexation of Crimea either - and you may have, though that is somewhat doubtful.


There would have been no annexation of Crimea or war in Ukraine had the world listened to Russia's concerns and actually supported a democratic process in Ukraine instead of vouching for an illegal seizure of power by people among which could be found not quasi but literal nazis... again, the result of unilateral politics. And if you love Ukraine as I think you do, the last thing you want to see happening right now is the sales of advanced weapons to Kiev, because it could end in an very very ugly way...


So, is your position basically that Russia’s military might ought to be respected and it should be given a « circle of influence » in which the West should not intervene? That, further, Russia is justified in taking direct military action to fight for that « circle of influence »?


No my point is that war is the continuation of politics by other means and when politics are flawed, like it was the case in the resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, war was very much at stakes. Had the US supported the idea of elections (!!!) in Ukraine, war would have been most likely avoided.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8646 by chicpea » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Slick Nick wrote:
There would have been no annexation of Crimea or war in Ukraine had the world listened to Russia's concerns and actually supported a democratic process


Okay. Russian support for democratic processes is a new field of study to the world and especially so concerning that of neighbours on the verge of being attacked, so I would like to read your intel on this.


Slick Nick wrote: ...instead of vouching for an illegal seizure of power by people among which could be found not quasi but literal nazis...


Literal nazis can be found in any nation. To whom are you referring specifically? Please provide a reference paper or credible link.


Slick Nick wrote:And if you love Ukraine as I think you do...


Not sure what this means and I could care even less.

Slick Nick wrote:...the last thing you want to see happening right now is the sales of advanced weapons to Kiev, because it could end in an very very ugly way...


And ending on a menacing threat from a Canadian to a country that is being occupied by a dictator and his minions. Great stuff.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8647 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:33 pm

Dog wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:
No my point is that war is the continuation of politics by other means and when politics are flawed, like it was the case in the resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, war was very much at stakes. Had the US and Germany supported the idea of elections (!!!) in Ukraine, war would have been most likely avoided.


How do you explain the Russian invasion of Georgia?


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... ussia.html
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8648 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:49 pm

chicpea wrote:And ending on a menacing threat from a Canadian to a country that is being occupied by a dictator and his minions. Great stuff.


Everything's alright with you? How am I threatening anyone? I'm just stating the obvious, more weapons, more escalation will only lead to very ugly things... it's a terrible idea. What Ukraine needs right now is deescalation, not more guns.

I'm not going through all of your points pea..
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8649 by Slick Nick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Dog wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:
Dog wrote:
How do you explain the Russian invasion of Georgia?


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... ussia.html


Direct quote from your link:

« In conclusion, the EU report, which runs to 1139 pages in three volumes, blamed the roots of the conflict on Russia's attempts to dominate its small neighbour and Georgia's sometime erratic responses to Moscow's aggression.
"(The evaluation) has to consider the impact of a great power's coercive politics and diplomacy against a small and insubordinate neighbour, together with the small neighbour's penchant for overplaying its hand and acting in the heat of the moment," the report concluded.« 


Look, the point is even the EU considers Georgia started the conflict. You can't go around it, Georgia bombed the hell out of Tskhinvali, killed 160 civilians in their sleep and some Russian peacekeeping forces... Russia retaliated. No bombing of Tskhinvali, no invasion.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #8650 by PredsFan77 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:26 pm

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