Europa raped by Zeus

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Post #1 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:24 pm

The fact that the ECB suggested a raid on bank accounts should scare all of us very very much.

I mean... no one expects Cyprus to be on the ball... but the EU should be above such things.
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Post #2 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Better to take a position to let Cyprus banks fail than to create such a precedent.
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Post #3 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:53 pm

Banana wrote:Better to take a position to let Cyprus banks fail than to create such a precedent.


The precedent of losing money on loans when there are defaults? That's hardly a new precedent.
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Post #4 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Craig wrote:The precedent of losing money on loans when there are defaults? That's hardly a new precedent.


Losing money on loans to so-so banks is a good precedent to set.

Having a supra-national institution recommend a tax on bank deposits is just needless risk added on top of an already shaky banking sector.
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Post #5 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:17 pm

Dog wrote:It's just optics nanners, not substantive. There is no added risk.


Of course its just optics. But optics are important for investor confidence, dougster.
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Post #6 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:19 pm

I don't give a rats ass for investors in Cypriot banks.

i'm worried for the dudes in France thinking if they should put money into the Soc Gen or guys in Spain trying to figure out if its ok to go back to Santander...

Or chinese investors thinking it be good to place some money in Europe. This type of move makes all these guys think twice. And it further thwarts investors.
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Post #7 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Why do you hate legitimate russian businessmen so much, dog?
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Post #8 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:26 pm

The optics man. The optics.
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Post #9 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:49 pm

You shouldn't knee jerk so much nanners.

:lr:
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Post #10 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:13 pm

He can see your deleted post anyway, dog.

If you really want to hide your snide remarks, you have to edit them out of your post before you delete it.
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Post #11 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:16 pm

No, I can't do that.
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Post #12 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Not without your password, anyway :paranoid:
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Post #13 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Craig wrote:Not without your password, anyway :paranoid:


Its: bananalove123
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Post #14 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Craig wrote:You shouldn't knee jerk so much nanners.

:lr:


This is an outrage! Won't someone think of the children (of russian mob-bosses)!
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Post #15 by AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:53 pm

BTW dog. I just got more infor about thus Cyprus thing. They're not saving the banks with the money, they're repaying their own government debt.

Its horrendous. On optics and substance.
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Post #16 by mayoradamwest » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:34 pm

So apparently Cypriot banks are a favourite of the Russian mafia.
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Post #17 by AD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:00 am

Dog wrote:I thought they were breaking up da banks, shipping toxic assets with over 100k deposits in one entity (were depositors would could stand to lose some 50% of their capital) and keeping sub 100k deposits in another entity with good assets.

Keep in mind that Cyprus' financial sector (deposits) is 8 times larger than the country's gdp.

There is no cyprus without bank restructuring.

Also, heard da bastards keept London and Moscow branches open and foreign capital fleed through there, while ordinary cypriots have faced closed banks for over a week. No one knows how much foreign capital they have let out -apparently in the billions.


Stinks.
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Post #18 by PredsFan77 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:44 pm

An article about the uprising of anti-immigrants in Italy through soccer. I wonder if this is something we will see become much more prevalent in Southern Europe that leads to some ultra-radical governments?

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9338962/when-beautiful-game-turns-ugly
CDX.NA.IG.9









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Post #19 by PredsFan77 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:51 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/world/europe/as-germans-push-austerity-greeks-press-back.html?hp&_r=0


the greek have turned into the US Blacks.

As Germans Push Austerity, Greeks Press Nazi-Era Claims
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Post #20 by VLoo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:21 pm

Big#D wrote:Germans should send some more troops in and shoot the crybabies in the head. That'd be more appropriate than giving them money.


Jesus.
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Post #21 by RTWAP » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:19 pm

VLoo wrote:Jesus.


Jesus is already dead. I'm not sure what shooting him in the head would accomplish.
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Post #22 by AD » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:36 pm

Yeah and we're expecting him to be back home any second.
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Post #23 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:40 pm

[RIGHT]But you didn't have to cut me off
Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
And I don't even need your love
But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
No you didn't have to stoop so low
Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just somebody that I used to know
[/RIGHT]
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Post #24 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:00 am

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Post #25 by Murphy » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:08 pm



Have been for a long time.
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Post #26 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:19 pm

It's pretty much like if Canada allowed a free flow of immigration from Mexico. I don't think it would be xenophobic to have some concerns about that.
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Post #27 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:29 pm

Western Europe doesn't particular like the gypsies...
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Post #28 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


A rational one, by definition.
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Post #29 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:34 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


The concern about catching your junk while zipping up your pants?
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Post #30 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:47 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Right, point one out on immigration and we'll unpack its presumed rationality.


I was just trying to frame the discussion for Mr. Nice Guy. I'm not particularly worried about the Mexicans coming up and stealing my finance/programming job.
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Post #31 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:03 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Buuuuut if we opened that up to China and India you'd be squealing like a little pig.


Nah, they can't do the finance part. The pure development part we already send to India, but once they're done the support and integration work is done by guys like me.
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Post #32 by Macbeth » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:04 pm

dempsey_k wrote:So on Jan 1st, Romanians and Bulgarians will be able to travel anywhere they'd like in Europe and work without a visa. On the whole, a great thing, but sure to cause similar xenophobia in the West and North as when the Poles and Czechs arrived, and even worse things in the South, where they've got their own troubles.


Urrrgghh, fucking gypsies...
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Post #33 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:06 pm

Macbeth wrote:Urrrgghh, fucking gypsies...


Isn't one if the broads of gypsy decent? I seem to recall thus issue bring raised before...
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Post #34 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:58 pm

dempsey_k wrote:I would like to expand immigration quotas to test your resolve, among other reasons.


Bring it on. It will probably make all the goods and services around me cheaper while my income stays the same. Plus I love Indian food.
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Post #35 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


Stress on the healthcare system and other government services, increased crime due to an influx of the relatively poor, a further degradation of wages and less job opportunities for service workers, rising housing costs as demand outstrips supply, etc, etc.

Which of those concerns is xenophobic, exactly? They may be overblown in some instances but that doesn't mean they are of a racial nature necessarily.
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Post #36 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Craig wrote:Bring it on. It will probably make all the goods and services around me cheaper while my income stays the same. Plus I love Indian food.


Lots of English speaking, low wage Indian programmers willing to do your job. Just ask RBC.. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rbc-replaces-canadian-staff-with-foreign-workers-1.1315008
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Post #37 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:23 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Being factually wrong could get you easily mistaken for a xenophobe, for putting non-issues (such as wages, housing) as the reason to keep darkies out.


Why are they non-issues?

We've had discussions on this forum about how jobs are disappearing for low-skilled workers. How does adding a bunch more competition for the remaining jobs help matters? Might help someone like Craig, but not the average fast food worker who is trying to survive on minimum wage at 20hrs/week.

As for housing stock, sure, you can say that supply will eventually catch up with demand, but in many urban areas you can't really increase supply. Which just means that people will have to travel further to get to jobs than they already do. Which will also put the public transit system under strain.

I can understand the argument that it would be a net benefit to the country as a whole (though I'm skeptical at this point), but certainly there are going to be losers. The people who stand to lose just happen to be the same people who are already under significant economic duress.
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Post #38 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:12 pm

Mr Nice Guy wrote:Lots of English speaking, low wage Indian programmers willing to do your job. Just ask RBC.. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rbc-replaces-canadian-staff-with-foreign-workers-1.1315008


Man, I literally just explained why this doesn't apply to my job. But I'm sure your vague example of literally dozens of people being fired is more credible.
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Post #39 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:36 pm

Craig wrote:Man, I literally just explained why this doesn't apply to my job. But I'm sure your vague example of literally dozens of people being fired is more credible.


Scanned the thread too fast, I guess.
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Post #40 by AD » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:43 am

And raising house prices are a good thing. Or at least not necessarily a bad thing.
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Post #41 by Craig » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:49 am

AD wrote:And raising house prices are a good thing. Or at least not necessarily a bad thing.


It's especially good for the people who already own houses. Which in this scenario is everyone but the immigrants.
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Post #42 by AD » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:55 am

Craig wrote:It's especially good for the people who already own houses. Which in this scenario is everyone but the immigrants.


High Five!
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Post #43 by Mr Nice Guy » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:19 pm

dempsey_k wrote:- This is an issue most used to appeal to tax paying honkies to fear darkies taking advantage of the system, and its framing is pernicious. Yes, if the US were to absorb India, our welfare state's floor would blow out from under it. But let's get something straight here: the quota on the number of people allowed in every year legally in the US and Canada is exceptionally small. So small that (AFAIK) it clocks slower than both of our average population growths without immigration. And our politicians are saying we can't handle it RIGHT NOW. Even worse is that our xenophobic politicians in the US are saying that the status quo with illegal immigrants is preferable, where they have to use emergency room care which drives up prices for everyone else, and yet payroll taxes on their labor is fair game so they aren't entitled to the welfare state they pay into as fruit pickers. This is an area where immigration reform and guest worker programs need to be tied into the healthcare system, and it's not impossible, even in our current dipshit Congress.


But we haven't been talking about the US. I agree with most of your sentiments (especially that the quotas are too small), but it's a different situation for European / Canadian socialized healthcare, where a huge influx of low wage immigrants would be receiving top quality healthcare while paying very little into it.

No.

Image


Interesting chart. A question, though: is that for legal immigrants only, or including illegal ones?

Lowered wages wouldn't be a point of concern with UBI, jobs programs, and minimum wage indexed to inflation on the threshold of the disemployment rabbit hole, but if it were still an issue, there's the simple fact that migrant workers in guest worker programs are sorely needed right now for agricultural and construction work, not to mention a lot of tech jobs companies can't find the applicants for. Tied in to a decent welfare state, this isn't a real concern. Without one, yeah it might be, which is why we should be wary of silver tongued libertarian and Chamber of Commerce snakes who are for immigration.


If people are so desperately needed the agricultural and construction industries, why aren't the wages higher? I get that there's the argument that there are jobs that Americans (and Europeans and Canadians etc) won't do, but what I read when I see that is that there are jobs that Americans won't do for shit money. I suppose your argument would be stronger if we weren't rolling at such high levels of unemployment right now.

I really don't think this is a serious issue at all. The Chinese drive up housing prices, not Mexicans and Vietnamese.

Nonsense. There are price pressures from the bottom and the top.

All in all, we probably agree more than we disagree. We almost certainly do need to increase immigration in order to support the demographic imbalance due to the baby boomers retiring (and Europe, particularly Germany has this problem worse than we do), but opening a dam is going to cause some reasonably concerns.
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Post #44 by RTWAP » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:58 pm

Mr Nice Guy wrote:Interesting chart. A question, though: is that for legal immigrants only, or including illegal ones?


I'm gonna guess that illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate than legal ones. Any casual contact with law enforcement can result in them being deported.
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Post #45 by Craig » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:47 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Venice is on the secession march. If you never realized, Venetian is as different a language from "Italian" as Spanish or Portuguese. Italian is just Florentine dialect because Venice, Sicily, and Savoy/Genoa never produced a match for Dante.


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/europes-latest-secession-movement-venice/284562/

This is actually pretty interesting, I had no idea the movement was so strong:

On Friday night, people waving red-and-gold flags emblazoned with the Lion of St. Mark filled the square of Treviso, a city in the Veneto region, as the referendum's organizers announced the results: 2,102,969 votes in favor of independence—a whopping 89 percent of all ballots cast—to 257,266 votes against. Venetians also said yes to joining NATO, the EU, and the eurozone. The overwhelming victory surprised even ardent supporters of the initiative, as most polls before the referendum estimated only about 65 percent of the region's voters supported independence.


Even the 65% comes as a surprise to me. I wonder if the eventual future for Europe is a return to city-states, but this time they're all united under the EU banner.
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Post #46 by Sturminator » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:09 pm

dempsey_k wrote:One huge part of Venice's wanting to break away is the north-south issue in Italy that's been constant over the past two centuries. Northerners not only speak a different language, they often look different (Lombard/Germanic raping/pillaging obvi), have different politics, and have a better economy. The next question is if other northerners want to break off.


Yes, northern italians are somewhat more civilized. Southern wops and sicilians were also penally influenced by da a-rabs for some centuries, so obviously that is another strike against them. The country can't split, though, because southern italy would instantly be in worse shape than greece. It would be like letting Alabama and Mississippi secede. You may as well have a vote on whether to accept the IMF rescue package right along with the secession referendum. Save some time.
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Post #47 by NyQuil » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:36 pm

The problem with Venice is that they can't create settlers for new cities.

They have to use a "Merchant of Venice" unit to puppet nearby city states.

However, unlike other civilizations, they are able to use the buy command in puppeted cities.
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Post #48 by NyQuil » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:54 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Pound of flesh?


Hath not a Venetian Separatist eyes?

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