Europa raped by Zeus

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Dog
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Post #1 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:35 am

Cyprus is innaresting.

My understanding is that it essentially decided to set itself up as an offshore banking center for the Russian mob and then suffered unsustainable losses by investing the mob's money in greek bonds. Now it wants an ecb loan to prop up its banks. These banks have little bond holders to share some of the hit, as they are by in large financed by deposits. Ecb did not want to loan money without the equivalent of bondholders taking a writeoff and asked for deposits to take a write off. Initial proposal was only to raid deposits above 100k, the state insured threshold, and thus largely protecting ordinary cypriots and leaving only bondholder-like investors with a write-off.

Doesn't sound too bad?

My understanding is that the Cypriot PM actually refused the 100k immunity to lower the hit on larger (foreign) accounts fearing (in the best case) a flight by such investors (ie. Russian mob) leading to a collapse of this feastering financial system or (in the worst case) he's corrupt.

So, we have what we have now.

Moral of the story: don't get into currency unions with fucktard countries. If you do, then man up and bail them out or dissolve the union. Point final. This "half union" shit don't work.
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Post #2 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:24 pm

The fact that the ECB suggested a raid on bank accounts should scare all of us very very much.

I mean... no one expects Cyprus to be on the ball... but the EU should be above such things.
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Post #3 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:30 pm

Ecb suggested lenders over the state insured amounts take a write-off on a bad loan.

Do you expect your bank savings above fed insured amounts to bear anything else than bank credit risk (and for the fed insured amounts to bear anything else than fed gov credit risk)?

The only nonesense is not respecting the 100k threshold and that was done by the cypriots on the cypriots (to protect the russians).
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Post #4 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Better to take a position to let Cyprus banks fail than to create such a precedent.
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Post #5 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:53 pm

Banana wrote:Better to take a position to let Cyprus banks fail than to create such a precedent.


The precedent of losing money on loans when there are defaults? That's hardly a new precedent.
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Post #6 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:00 pm

Banana wrote:Better to take a position to let Cyprus banks fail than to create such a precedent.


Banks fail, deposits disapear, Cyprus fails. Euro's in trouble.

I agree that optics look bad (people start thinking they can lose money in the bank and panic....which they can, just best they not realize it and not panic).
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Post #7 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Craig wrote:The precedent of losing money on loans when there are defaults? That's hardly a new precedent.


Losing money on loans to so-so banks is a good precedent to set.

Having a supra-national institution recommend a tax on bank deposits is just needless risk added on top of an already shaky banking sector.
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Post #8 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:15 pm

Banana wrote:Losing money on loans to so-so banks is a good precedent to set.

Having a supra-national institution recommend a tax on bank deposits is just needless risk added on top of an already shaky banking sector.


It's just optics nanners, not substantive. There is no added risk.
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Post #9 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:17 pm

Dog wrote:It's just optics nanners, not substantive. There is no added risk.


Of course its just optics. But optics are important for investor confidence, dougster.
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Post #10 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:19 pm

I don't give a rats ass for investors in Cypriot banks.

i'm worried for the dudes in France thinking if they should put money into the Soc Gen or guys in Spain trying to figure out if its ok to go back to Santander...

Or chinese investors thinking it be good to place some money in Europe. This type of move makes all these guys think twice. And it further thwarts investors.
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Post #11 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:24 pm

Sure, if such investors were not aware that they were taking bank credit risk above insured amounts -which i doubt (we're talking amounts over 100k).

Again, the only ugly thing here is for Cyprus to not honour deposit insurance. The ECB can't exactly force them to.

By the by, Iceland did something similar in 08 but targetted only foreign account holders (that were not insured). Cyprus would have a hard time doing that as many of these Russians have dual citizenship and run Cyprus based "businesses".
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Post #12 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Why do you hate legitimate russian businessmen so much, dog?
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Post #13 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:26 pm

The optics man. The optics.
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Post #14 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Banana wrote:Why do you hate legitimate russian businessmen so much, dog?


I don't. They are just bondholders in a business that's being restructured and required to take a write-off to avoid a total loss.

Sounds like a good deal to me.
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Post #15 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:46 pm

Cyprus comes to its senses, protects accounts up to 100k and leaves others to take hit, likely gets loan and continues on it's merry crocked ways. Pretty much what was initially proposed to them.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5adf82bc-9201-11e2-851f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2OClrbcUg
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Post #16 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:47 pm

You shouldn't knee jerk so much nanners.

:lr:
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Post #17 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:49 pm

You shouldn't knee jerk so much nanners.

:lr:
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Post #18 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:51 pm

You're mean, greg.
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Post #19 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:13 pm

He can see your deleted post anyway, dog.

If you really want to hide your snide remarks, you have to edit them out of your post before you delete it.
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Post #20 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:14 pm

Did you use your mod powers to make it appear like i wrote a post and then deleted it, greg?
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Post #21 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:16 pm

No, I can't do that.
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Post #22 by Craig » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Not without your password, anyway :paranoid:
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Post #23 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Craig wrote:Not without your password, anyway :paranoid:


Its: bananalove123
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Post #24 by Dog » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:26 pm

I just use that for my personal banking, not for broads.
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Post #25 by AD » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Craig wrote:You shouldn't knee jerk so much nanners.

:lr:


This is an outrage! Won't someone think of the children (of russian mob-bosses)!
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Post #26 by AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:53 pm

BTW dog. I just got more infor about thus Cyprus thing. They're not saving the banks with the money, they're repaying their own government debt.

Its horrendous. On optics and substance.
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Post #27 by mayoradamwest » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:34 pm

So apparently Cypriot banks are a favourite of the Russian mafia.
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Post #28 by Dog » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:08 pm

Banana wrote:BTW dog. I just got more infor about thus Cyprus thing. They're not saving the banks with the money, they're repaying their own government debt.

Its horrendous. On optics and substance.


I thought they were breaking up da banks, shipping toxic assets with over 100k deposits in one entity (were depositors would could stand to lose some 50% of their capital) and keeping sub 100k deposits in another entity with good assets.

Keep in mind that Cyprus' financial sector (deposits) is 8 times larger than the country's gdp.

There is no cyprus without bank restructuring.

Also, heard da bastards keept London and Moscow branches open and foreign capital fleed through there, while ordinary cypriots have faced closed banks for over a week. No one knows how much foreign capital they have let out -apparently in the billions.
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Post #29 by AD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:00 am

Dog wrote:I thought they were breaking up da banks, shipping toxic assets with over 100k deposits in one entity (were depositors would could stand to lose some 50% of their capital) and keeping sub 100k deposits in another entity with good assets.

Keep in mind that Cyprus' financial sector (deposits) is 8 times larger than the country's gdp.

There is no cyprus without bank restructuring.

Also, heard da bastards keept London and Moscow branches open and foreign capital fleed through there, while ordinary cypriots have faced closed banks for over a week. No one knows how much foreign capital they have let out -apparently in the billions.


Stinks.
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Post #30 by PredsFan77 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:44 pm

An article about the uprising of anti-immigrants in Italy through soccer. I wonder if this is something we will see become much more prevalent in Southern Europe that leads to some ultra-radical governments?

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9338962/when-beautiful-game-turns-ugly
CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
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Post #31 by PredsFan77 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:51 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/world/europe/as-germans-push-austerity-greeks-press-back.html?hp&_r=0


the greek have turned into the US Blacks.

As Germans Push Austerity, Greeks Press Nazi-Era Claims
CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
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Post #32 by VLoo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:21 pm

Big#D wrote:Germans should send some more troops in and shoot the crybabies in the head. That'd be more appropriate than giving them money.


Jesus.
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Post #33 by RTWAP » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:19 pm

VLoo wrote:Jesus.


Jesus is already dead. I'm not sure what shooting him in the head would accomplish.
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Post #34 by Dog » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:33 pm

RTWAP wrote:Jesus is already dead. I'm not sure what shooting him in the head would accomplish.


You didn't hear? He's alive!
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Post #35 by AD » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:36 pm

Yeah and we're expecting him to be back home any second.
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Post #36 by edgar_dong » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:40 pm

[RIGHT]But you didn't have to cut me off
Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
And I don't even need your love
But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
No you didn't have to stoop so low
Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just somebody that I used to know
[/RIGHT]
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Post #37 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:00 am

CDX.NA.IG.9



















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Post #38 by Murphy » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:08 pm



Have been for a long time.
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Post #39 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:19 pm

It's pretty much like if Canada allowed a free flow of immigration from Mexico. I don't think it would be xenophobic to have some concerns about that.
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Post #40 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:29 pm

Western Europe doesn't particular like the gypsies...
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Post #41 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


A rational one, by definition.
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Post #42 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:34 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


The concern about catching your junk while zipping up your pants?
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Post #43 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:47 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Right, point one out on immigration and we'll unpack its presumed rationality.


I was just trying to frame the discussion for Mr. Nice Guy. I'm not particularly worried about the Mexicans coming up and stealing my finance/programming job.
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Post #44 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:03 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Buuuuut if we opened that up to China and India you'd be squealing like a little pig.


Nah, they can't do the finance part. The pure development part we already send to India, but once they're done the support and integration work is done by guys like me.
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Post #45 by Macbeth » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:04 pm

dempsey_k wrote:So on Jan 1st, Romanians and Bulgarians will be able to travel anywhere they'd like in Europe and work without a visa. On the whole, a great thing, but sure to cause similar xenophobia in the West and North as when the Poles and Czechs arrived, and even worse things in the South, where they've got their own troubles.


Urrrgghh, fucking gypsies...
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Post #46 by MP » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:06 pm

Macbeth wrote:Urrrgghh, fucking gypsies...


Isn't one if the broads of gypsy decent? I seem to recall thus issue bring raised before...
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Post #47 by Craig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:58 pm

dempsey_k wrote:I would like to expand immigration quotas to test your resolve, among other reasons.


Bring it on. It will probably make all the goods and services around me cheaper while my income stays the same. Plus I love Indian food.
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Post #48 by Mr Nice Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 pm

dempsey_k wrote:What concern isn't xenophobic?


Stress on the healthcare system and other government services, increased crime due to an influx of the relatively poor, a further degradation of wages and less job opportunities for service workers, rising housing costs as demand outstrips supply, etc, etc.

Which of those concerns is xenophobic, exactly? They may be overblown in some instances but that doesn't mean they are of a racial nature necessarily.

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