Murrica: fuck yeah

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11501 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:46 pm

AD wrote:so.. yay…? not important humans die instead?


A direct major war between major powers would have lead to much more death and destruction. It has lead to restraint/fighting on the “periphery”. Major clashes between world powers was pretty common throughout history, up until, you know, tech got to the point that continuing that would kill us all.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11502 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:49 pm

The only price to pay is that any mistep can lead to total annihilation. Not too bad of a gambit, all things considered.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11503 by AD » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:49 pm

The "periphery".

How can you live with yourself? How do you sleep at night?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11504 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:50 pm

AD wrote:How can you live with yourself? How do you sleep at night?


Soundly under the protection of the nuclear blanked.

:danson:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11505 by Craig » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:51 pm

AD wrote:
Craig wrote:What are your sources? I strongly suspect one number is combat deaths and the other includes non-combat deaths.


Uhm.. who cares?


I care about the trend. If we've gone from 300k deaths to 1 million, that's bad. If we've gone from 2 million to 1 million, that's good.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11506 by AD » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:52 pm

When the revolution starts, the blood of you bourgeois swine will flow in the streets...
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11507 by AD » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:53 pm

Craig wrote:
AD wrote:
Craig wrote:What are your sources? I strongly suspect one number is combat deaths and the other includes non-combat deaths.


Uhm.. who cares?


I care about the trend. If we've gone from 300k deaths to 1 million, that's bad. If we've gone from 2 million to 1 million, that's good.


Per capita its gone down... (world population is growing and China and India have not been in wars recently).. if you must know.

So yay!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11508 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:10 pm

Banana is just upset that his native country isn’t under nuclear protection and the development of that deterrent by its major ally is being curtailed by the West -with possibly a US-Saudi-Israli invasion before they’ve lost their chance to do so.

I’m talking overall, global picture here, banana. Not your own narrow petty self interest.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11509 by AD » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:17 pm

Death to Amrika! Death to Isra-eel! La Illaha Illah Lah.

Allahu Akbar!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11510 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:23 pm

So edgy. Calm down, man. Enjoy your privilege, man.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11511 by AD » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:30 pm

I will not stand here while my brothers are slaughtered by you infidel dogs.








(I will sorta just sit over there)
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11512 by PredsFan77 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:52 pm

SPACE FORCE!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11513 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:03 pm

PredsFan77 wrote:SPACE FORCE!


That’s a great 2020 Trump re-election campaign slogan. Worthy successor to MAGA.

In fact, he could just respond to all media and debate questions by yelling “SPACE FORCE!”.

Would probably still get 45% of the vote and win the electoral college.

:crossarms:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11514 by Craig » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:03 pm

AD wrote:When the revolution starts, the blood of you bourgeois swine will flow in the streets...


I'm sorry, which one of the two of us is bourgy?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11515 by Slick Nick » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:10 pm

Dog wrote:Banana is just upset that his native country isn’t under nuclear protection and the development of that deterrent by its major ally is being curtailed by the West -with possibly a US-Saudi-Israli invasion before they’ve lost their chance to do so.

I’m talking overall, global picture here, banana. Not your own narrow petty self interest.


We'll just sell them s-400's.

- Vlad
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11516 by jester » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:35 pm

Dog wrote:I said all out warfare between major powers, not peace on earth. 20 million people died during cold war conflicts in battlefront contries, but there was no WWIII. Europe, which could have sparked direct confrontation, also stayed peaceful. Likewise, you’ll likely never ever have a major confrontation between major powers in the future either.


The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11517 by Dog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:01 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I said all out warfare between major powers, not peace on earth. 20 million people died during cold war conflicts in battlefront contries, but there was no WWIII. Europe, which could have sparked direct confrontation, also stayed peaceful. Likewise, you’ll likely never ever have a major confrontation between major powers in the future either.


The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.


Yeah, I know. Not just violent death, but childhood mortality is way down as is death by infectious and non commutable disease. They’ll be 10 billion of us all over the planet soon enough. Banana is the one bitching about spillover loses at the margins.

:rollseyes:
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11518 by Craig » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:11 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I said all out warfare between major powers, not peace on earth. 20 million people died during cold war conflicts in battlefront contries, but there was no WWIII. Europe, which could have sparked direct confrontation, also stayed peaceful. Likewise, you’ll likely never ever have a major confrontation between major powers in the future either.


The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.


I don't have data, but low grade conflicts feel like a regional problem now. Like South America and Asia seem relatively stable compared to the 1900s. We've narrowed it down to just the middle East and Africa.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11519 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:16 am

The only questions that remain are whether the collusion that took place constituted criminally liable conspiracy, whether obstruction of justice occurred to cover up any collusion or conspiracy, and how many members of “Trump Incorporated” attempted to defraud the government by laundering and concealing the movement of money into their pockets.


Don’t really care for the security clearance revocation thing, but this is pretty close to insider confirmation of where the investigation is at.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opin ... rance.html
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11520 by AD » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:25 am

Craig wrote:
AD wrote:When the revolution starts, the blood of you bourgeois swine will flow in the streets...


I'm sorry, which one of the two of us is bourgy?


Mostly the dog. But I think you could be swept up in the general chaos too.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11521 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:50 am

I’m a man of the people, buttheads.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11522 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:58 am

All I’m saying is that there has been over 100 billion modern humans that have lived and countless other hominids and predecessor species. We’ll be 10 billion of us alive (may or may not contain mcphee) soon. Life expectancy has never been so high, with the fastest increases by far in the developping world. Kids born today in the most advanced states can reasonably expect to live 90-100 years. Africa still sucks, but almost everywhere else the progress -notably in the past few decades- has been astounding. Sure, we still have Syrias but those beautiful intercontinental balistic missiles with thermonuclear warheads have prevented any trully major widespread conflict between major powers.

Nothing is perfect. Numbers fluctuate. People die. But later. Much later on average. It’s all just matter rearanging itself under the unstopable increasing entropy of the universe anywho.

I don’t know what banana’s problem is.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11523 by senate » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:08 am

So expect some more security clearance revocation announcements this afternoon.

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11524 by Craig » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:10 am

Trump citing "erratic behaviour" to remove clearance from someone is really something special, innit?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11525 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:06 am

Craig wrote:Trump citing "erratic behaviour" to remove clearance from someone is really something special, innit?


This whole revocation thing seems ill thought out. Apparently, they don’t even have access to the latest info just kept abreast historically to enable a re-entry into service quickly if need be. Revocation doesn’t really do anything. It’s not like they could disclose publicly anywho and plenty of others have much more up-to-date intel. The only thing it does is piss them off and lead to more virulent denounciations of the admin (like this morning’s piece by Brennan). I don’t get it. Are they trying to discredit them by revoking clearance? I can’t see that working with other than the base which is secure anywho. Moderates will be more swayed by having these guys forcefully denounce Trump publicly in reaction. Or maybe it’s just petty and that’s all.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11526 by AD » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:20 am

I mean, yeah dog... the more macro you view it, the greater it is. Like.. this specific planet creating gases that are killing the life on it is really a super irrelevant thing in the grand scheme of the expanding universe. The vast majority of planets are doing just fine!



Oh to be in Andromeda right now instead of this stupid Milky Way...
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11527 by shredz » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:35 am

Dog wrote:
Craig wrote:Trump citing "erratic behaviour" to remove clearance from someone is really something special, innit?


This whole revocation thing seems ill thought out. Apparently, they don’t even have access to the latest info just kept abreast historically to enable a re-entry into service quickly if need be. Revocation doesn’t really do anything. It’s not like they could disclose publicly anywho and plenty of others have much more up-to-date intel. The only thing it does is piss them off and lead to more virulent denounciations of the admin (like this morning’s piece by Brennan). I don’t get it. Are they trying to discredit them by revoking clearance? I can’t see that working with other than the base which is secure anywho. Moderates will be more swayed by having these guys forcefully denounce Trump publicly in reaction. Or maybe it’s just petty and that’s all.


Trump loves Wikileaks but not White House leaks.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11528 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:41 am

AD wrote:I mean, yeah dog... the more macro you view it, the greater it is. Like.. this specific planet creating gases that are killing the life on it is really a super irrelevant thing in the grand scheme of the expanding universe. The vast majority of planets are doing just fine!



Oh to be in Andromeda right now instead of this stupid Milky Way...


I’m saying your stupid hominid subspecies is doing better than ever. Multiplying more and living (ie. matter caught in certain self-sustaining chemical reactions for a period of time) longer and better than ever.

Stop complaining!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11529 by Craig » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:52 am

Banana is in the top 1% of a country that is in the top 1% of all the countries in the world at a time when the world is doing in the top 1% of it's entire history, and he's all doom and gloom.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11530 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:08 pm

Craig wrote:Banana is in the top 1% of a country that is in the top 1% of all the countries in the world at a time when the world is doing in the top 1% of it's entire history, and he's all doom and gloom.


Technically, Canada is like 15th or something in GDP per capita. Nominal. On a PPP basis we’re like 35. On 200odd states, that’s like 7-15th percentile-ish. Not bad, but not 1%. I know I should do it on population numbers rather than number of states (many in the top are tiny), but whatever -would still be out of top 1%. Banana’s income, however, surely places him in the global 1%. Not sure about Canada. You make more than $250kish, banes? This is very likely a top 1% time to be alive as a human. So far at least, which isn’t a fair comparaison. At the end of human existence, it may turn out to not even be a top 10% time to have existed as a human!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11531 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:20 pm

Jebus, perish the thought! Can you imagine ending up living in a 10-15th percentile country and time? The mediocreness! Ewww!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11532 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Without suffering we'll never be alive. :why:
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11533 by jester » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:50 pm

Craig wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I said all out warfare between major powers, not peace on earth. 20 million people died during cold war conflicts in battlefront contries, but there was no WWIII. Europe, which could have sparked direct confrontation, also stayed peaceful. Likewise, you’ll likely never ever have a major confrontation between major powers in the future either.


The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.


I don't have data, but low grade conflicts feel like a regional problem now. Like South America and Asia seem relatively stable compared to the 1900s. We've narrowed it down to just the middle East and Africa.


Poverty level is one of the key factors, yep.

I think there is a big catch, here. Developed/industrialized nation's have become much more peaceful. Two lengthy periods of peace in Europe since 1815, for example. But, of course, when hostilities do break out the results are catastrophic. It's a mistake, however, to assume that on the per-capita levels the world wars were any more traumatic than previous eras of human conflict. So, I'm dubious that we have learned our lesson, or whatever.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11534 by jester » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I said all out warfare between major powers, not peace on earth. 20 million people died during cold war conflicts in battlefront contries, but there was no WWIII. Europe, which could have sparked direct confrontation, also stayed peaceful. Likewise, you’ll likely never ever have a major confrontation between major powers in the future either.


The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.


Yeah, I know. Not just violent death, but childhood mortality is way down as is death by infectious and non commutable disease. They’ll be 10 billion of us all over the planet soon enough. Banana is the one bitching about spillover loses at the margins.

:rollseyes:


I taught with a book titled War Before Civilization last fall, which basically blew up the notion of the "peaceful savage" when it was published. The archaeological data on human life is depressing as fuck.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11535 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:07 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
The data on this is funny. Humans are *much less likely* to die a violent death today than in previous eras. Low grade conflict, however, remains endemic.


Yeah, I know. Not just violent death, but childhood mortality is way down as is death by infectious and non commutable disease. They’ll be 10 billion of us all over the planet soon enough. Banana is the one bitching about spillover loses at the margins.

:rollseyes:


I taught with a book titled War Before Civilization last fall, which basically blew up the notion of the "peaceful savage" when it was published. The archaeological data on human life is depressing as fuck.


Fear not, Jester. Fear of mutual annihilation is forcing us towards civility.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11536 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:15 pm

People thought pre-civilization tribes were peaceful? To my knowledge, they cooperated with neighboring tribes when necessary/useful and fought with neighboring tribes when necessary/useful.

To me it’s trully one of the most amazing feats of humanity to have gone from hunter/gatherer nomadic tribes of some 50 people or something from time immemorial (hundreds of thousands if not millions of years, depending on how you define “us”) to some 10k years ago and from then to New York City and Tokyo today! Holy fuck! We went into absolutely crazy acceleration of social complexity and cooperation/exchange. Farming and settling took our species in some insane runaway trajectory!
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11537 by jester » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:02 pm

Dog wrote:People thought pre-civilization tribes were peaceful? To my knowledge, they cooperated with neighboring tribes when necessary/useful and fought with neighboring tribes when necessary/useful.

To me it’s trully one of the most amazing feats of humanity to have gone from hunter/gatherer nomadic tribes of some 50 people or something from time immemorial (hundreds of thousands if not millions of years, depending on how you define “us”) to some 10k years ago and from then to New York City and Tokyo today! Holy fuck! We went into absolutely crazy acceleration of social complexity and cooperation/exchange. Farming and settling took our species in some insane runaway trajectory!


Hobbes v. Rousseau. Did civilization constrain violent impulses, or cause them? For a very long time, people assumed the latter. What extant archaeological record we have, however, suggests the opposite. That pre-civilized man was *exceptionally* violent ... as in 30+% you'd die violently. In some societies at particularly violent phases, that number appears to have jumped much, much higher (particularly if you were male).

Why they fought over is conjecture, but the most likely reason is access to resources (food, water, and women). So, has weaponry "civilized" the West, or the relative plenty of modern life?
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11538 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:58 pm

jester wrote:Hobbes v. Rousseau. Did civilization constrain violent impulses, or cause them? For a very long time, people assumed the latter. What extant archaeological record we have, however, suggests the opposite. That pre-civilized man was *exceptionally* violent ... as in 30+% you'd die violently. In some societies at particularly violent phases, that number appears to have jumped much, much higher (particularly if you were male).

Why they fought over is conjecture, but the most likely reason is access to resources (food, water, and women). So, has weaponry "civilized" the West, or the relative plenty of modern life?


The contrary (non violent pre civilization humans) would have been incredibly surprising. I don’t see this as a philosophical question, but rather one for archeologists, anthropologists and evolutionary biologists. We’re primates. People forget.

As for your question, I think civilization (basically, the benefits of much more dynamic cultural and knowledge transmission and of cooperation) lead to more plenty which tame more violent instincts. Still think there would have been a WWIII and more direct widespread wars between major powers without nukes.

I believe there was an appproximate 4-5M humans around 12-10k years ago when the Neolithic transition started. That’s like, for the 150k-200k years preceding agricultural revolution, there was only a few million people on earth, with some bottle neck periods where the population dwindled and homo sapiens came close to extinction.

From 10k or so years ago (begining of settled agriculture and growth in civilization), populations steadily grew. Slower at first and more rapidly after. Some 15M humans at 5,000BC and 250M by the time of Jesus. A billion by 1800s, then massive explosition with industrial revolution and super accelerated growth in 20th century. We’re now passed peak growth, with most societies having achieved “demographic transition” to low bith/low death rates.

To the extent we can judge the success of a species by its population numbers and quality of life, civilization has been massively beneficial (1982 Lebanon war notwithstanding, banana!)

What really blow my mind, however, is considering that homo sapiens have basically been physiologically the same for 100,000-200,000 years. And not that different from other now extinct hominids. Neanderthals even had larger craniums.

Take a human from 125,000 years ago and put him next to me and we’re virtually the same. My brain’s not bigger.

What’s changed is the absolutely breaktaking pace of cultural evolution, accelerated by settlement living and growing communities.

Hominids, homo sapiens in particular, seem to have, as their most distinguishing feature, the ability to communicate and to organize themselves into increadibly complex social structures. It’s, fundamentally, the ability to share knowledge widely between communities and then down through different generations, which build on prior knowledge, that really sets us apart in the animal world. Our social and communication abilities permit rapid social evolution and once we stumbled upon (often out of necessity) new technological developments, they spread throughout our population and down to future generations which expand on it and further transmit it. It’s how we “rule” nature. We understand it and exploit it better than any other species -and fundamentally we are able to do that because of our innate ability to communicate/transmit knowledge and cooperate. I tend to think that our species was “lucky enough” to have found itself under what was probably severe evolutionary pressures selecting for characteristics that enhance communication and cooperation. It’s probably the chief driver behind our outsized brains (compared to other species, on a ratio to body weight). Relentless pressure to select for vocal chords, agile and flexible minds, ability to develop complex social arrangements -crucially with the ability to “read others” known as empathy. That requires a mental ability to “decouple thinking” from the self. That might be a driver for further evolving abstract reasoning abilities -which come in mighty handy.

Anywho, long ass post again, but basically (Iranian hostage crises notwithstanding, banana) I tend to think human’s fundamental defining feature is our incredible capacity to form complex social structures, cooperate and exchange knowledge. Sure that’s not our only instincts. We play game theory to an extent. We cheat when we can, but that tends to lead to retribution that leaves everybody worse off and so we slowly learn to get along better and better, in fits and starts, with occassional world wars and intercontinental slavery happening. Our progress is in this ability to adapt, learn and teach which makes us much more nimble than other species that can’t pool their reasources and brain power as widely as us or communicate it down for further generations to continuously build on.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11539 by PredsFan77 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:04 pm

tldr
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11540 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:06 pm

PredsFan77 wrote:tldr


Was mostly badmouthing PK Subban.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11541 by Craig » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:22 pm

That last dog post was so, so, so very influenced by the age we live in. Thinking we're trending towards higher and higher levels of social structures is something nobody would have argued pre 1800. They surely would have argued that *they* we're doing that, so it was their manifest Destiny to enlighten the rest of the world. This feels strongly like your views on us moving to a multipolar world expressing themselves.

Really though, has the world really shown much change in social evolution since, say, the Roman Empire? If anything I'd say we're fracturing.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11542 by Slick Nick » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:13 pm

Craig wrote:That last dog post was so, so, so very influenced by the age we live in. Thinking we're trending towards higher and higher levels of social structures is something nobody would have argued pre 1800. They surely would have argued that *they* we're doing that, so it was their manifest Destiny to enlighten the rest of the world. This feels strongly like your views on us moving to a multipolar world expressing themselves.

Really though, has the world really shown much change in social evolution since, say, the Roman Empire? If anything I'd say we're fracturing.


international law and trade, supranational entities, humanitarian and developmental structures... it's a bit more structured than the good ole Roman empire.

This being said, I'm pretty sure that raccoons will outsmart us sooner than later.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11543 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:18 pm

Dog wrote:Raccoons are stupid.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11544 by Craig » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:25 pm

Slick Nick wrote:
Craig wrote:That last dog post was so, so, so very influenced by the age we live in. Thinking we're trending towards higher and higher levels of social structures is something nobody would have argued pre 1800. They surely would have argued that *they* we're doing that, so it was their manifest Destiny to enlighten the rest of the world. This feels strongly like your views on us moving to a multipolar world expressing themselves.

Really though, has the world really shown much change in social evolution since, say, the Roman Empire? If anything I'd say we're fracturing.


international law and trade, supranational entities, humanitarian and developmental structures... it's a bit more structured than the good ole Roman empire.

This being said, I'm pretty sure that raccoons will outsmart us sooner than later.


Lots of that stuff existed in Roman and pre-roman times. They were amazingly sophisticated in so many ways, as were many kingdoms in China I'm less familiar with. I mean yeah, the world as a whole had less social structure, but I'm not convinced the Roman world did.

Also, how much of that perceived structre is a result of advancing technology? There's good reason why there wasn't a UN before planes and telephones.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11545 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:53 pm

Craig wrote:has the world really shown much change in social evolution since, say, the Roman Empire?


Yes, I think there’s been much social evolution since Rome.

But you missed my point (or I made it badly). I’m not arguing for directed or linear progress. Or that progress is even the most likely outcome. I think it’s random, in response to the environment. Genes given expression in a particular environment. That’s all there is. Humans had roughly the same mental abilities for hundreds of thousands of years. Their numbers were small and they dropped to near extinction levels several times (one of the reasons why we are all so close genetically). That’s the vast majority of homo sapien history. Neolithic revolution lead to fundamental changes, even if very gradual. It probably happened as a response to climate change, I believe. Growing crops is difficult and energy expensive. It’s worse in the beginning than nomadic hunting and gathering. Was probably done from necessity. It had the chance effect, over long periods, of “unlocking” and causing rapid develpment in humans innate ability to form complex social arrangements and to transmit knowledge. Population density in settled communities (as opposed to nomadic tribes) enhanced those opportunities for cultural transmission and rapid evolution. It waxed and waned, but there’s been knowledge accumulation and transfer that, again as a non directed happenstance, lead to notably the industrial revolution and explosive increase in our technological ability to support humans. Ever since the neolithic revolution there’s been fairly constant increase in human population. That didn’t really happen for the previous 200,000 years -it’s all been since, in the past 5% or so of the time since homo sapiens have existed. Of course, future developments can cause our demise. We can cause our demise. That’s not the point. The point is that, as it happened, civilization has largely been incredibly beneficial for humans. That thought was shared in response to Jester saying that some people have this romantized view of pre-civilization humans as more peaceful. Implied in that, I think, they mean that civilization is not “natural”. In fact, I think humans are exceptionally well adapted for it. It’s our secret sauce for world domination (and Netflix). The proof is in comparing pre and post civilization population numbers and lifespans. We fight, but we also exceptionally good at working together.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11546 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Craig wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:
Craig wrote:That last dog post was so, so, so very influenced by the age we live in. Thinking we're trending towards higher and higher levels of social structures is something nobody would have argued pre 1800. They surely would have argued that *they* we're doing that, so it was their manifest Destiny to enlighten the rest of the world. This feels strongly like your views on us moving to a multipolar world expressing themselves.

Really though, has the world really shown much change in social evolution since, say, the Roman Empire? If anything I'd say we're fracturing.


international law and trade, supranational entities, humanitarian and developmental structures... it's a bit more structured than the good ole Roman empire.

This being said, I'm pretty sure that raccoons will outsmart us sooner than later.


Lots of that stuff existed in Roman and pre-roman times. They were amazingly sophisticated in so many ways, as were many kingdoms in China I'm less familiar with. I mean yeah, the world as a whole had less social structure, but I'm not convinced the Roman world did.

Also, how much of that perceived structre is a result of advancing technology? There's good reason why there wasn't a UN before planes and telephones.


Technology is the product of progressive generations building upon the knowledge of previous generations. That’s a large part of what I’m saying. Some animal some time ago was subject to severe evolutionary pressure over millions of years which favoured, in a given environment, the development of certain traits which give it unparalleled (on earth) ability to communicate and transmit knowledge and culture. That was kept fairly decentralized in tribes and nothing much happened for 100-200 thousand years after the apparition of anatomically modern humans. Sure they build spears and knives and shit, but no internet. Environmental pressure towards settled community living (a hasstle and out of necessity) had the funny side effect of greatly enabling cultural and knowledge exchanges. Slowly at first, sometimes taking a few thousands years of relative stagnation, but hey it did lead to the Beatles and to discovering quantum physics and general relativity and sending probes out of the solar system too. Living in complex social arrangements, with increasing opportunity to communicate and share knowledge and culture, like on broads, lead to cultural and technological evolution. Knowledge and tech, in particular, benefit. It develops by accretion over generations. At some point, we can take stock and say “hey, look what we can do together”. I’m unlikely to have discovered penicillin on my own in the woods, greg.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11547 by senate » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:19 pm

Expect a hissy fit over this:



The parade was projected to cost 666% more than originally budgeted. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/08/16/trump-military-parade-cost-increase/1011519002/

Imagine how many Republicans would have died from strokes and heart attacks if Obama was ever associated on the public record with the number 666.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11548 by Dog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:30 pm

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666 and his name is Barack Hussein Obama.

-book of revelations.
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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11549 by senate » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:32 pm

Sorry to further derail the anthropology thread:

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Re: Murrica: fuck yeah

Post #11550 by chicpea » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:46 pm

“I Revoke My Security Clearance Too, Mr President”

Short but powerful read: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

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