Ukraine: da

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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jester
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Ukraine: da

Post #1 by jester » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:35 pm

These are factors that tend toward complicating a single "unvarnished truth." The atomization of news helps partisanship more than it helps a public consensus of certainty.

The Cold War was a conflict of ideology with no shortage of ideologues. What is going on in the Ukraine is 19th c. power politics. Two completely different beasts.
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Post #2 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:40 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:I'm referring to factors like greater immediacy of information, the personalization of its delivery, as well as increased access to precise details on the ground either through live updates or raw video.

In other words, information seems less filtered and more direct, creating the impression that the editorial middleman has been removed in favor of the unvarnished truth. But it is nevertheless misleading because context can be twisted.


I see what you're saying, I think it's more of a psychological point I'm not sure I agree on. It seems that people always think they have the best, until something newer comes along and with hindsight what they were working with wasn't that great. Maybe you're right, but I tend to believe people were just as confident then as they are now. 10 years from now, we'll probably laugh at ourselves.

Also, BBC apparently reporting tanks in Ukraine clashing with Ukrainian forces?

Russia let tanks into eastern Ukraine to aid separatists, Kiev alleges
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ukraine/article19133426/
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Post #3 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:38 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:I see what you're saying, I think it's more of a psychological point I'm not sure I agree on. It seems that people always think they have the best, until something newer comes along and with hindsight what they were working with wasn't that great. Maybe you're right, but I tend to believe people were just as confident then as they are now. 10 years from now, we'll probably laugh at ourselves.


It just seems to me that we have entered an era of the empowered, interactive media consumer - or so the thinking goes. If our media is not creating more ideologues, it is perhaps giving more of them a forum to shape the discourse about world events.

But I am just theorizing and might be wrong.

Also, BBC apparently reporting tanks in Ukraine clashing with Ukrainian forces?

Russia let tanks into eastern Ukraine to aid separatists, Kiev alleges
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19133426/


They won't rest until Poroshenko is on his knees begging for mercy.
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Post #4 by Pennywise » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:00 pm

Kiev is attention whoring again. They are probably a militias with the Russian flag added for effect. I saw the video, it's like two tanks. Maybe Russia let them slide in.
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Post #5 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:15 pm

Shredder wrote:Kiev is attention whoring again. They are probably a militias with the Russian flag added for effect. I saw the video, it's like two tanks. Maybe Russia let them slide in.


Kiev is always full of it, of course. But Russia is letting these guys enter Ukraine at the very least. As in to say, go on ahead and do your dirty business and we'll watch the show unfold.
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Post #6 by Pennywise » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:28 pm

Is that really news though? People are acting like Russia just full scale invaded. (Not here, mostly on Twitter). I just think Russia is becoming more cocky, especially with the Iraq crisis.
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Post #7 by Slick Nick » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:43 am

Russia day in annexed Ukrainian territory of Crimea.

Image
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Post #8 by PredsFan77 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:51 am

So they shot down a plane that should go over well
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Post #9 by PPJ » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:24 pm

Just found out today, my mother in law might be 1/8th Russian. Making my kids 1/32nd Russian, I think. Another reason a couple of my kids ended up blue eyed. There was also that rumour about that British sailor.
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Post #10 by Ernie » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:28 pm

A blue eyed British sailor banged your wife?
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Post #11 by PPJ » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:33 pm

Ernie wrote:A blue eyed British sailor banged your wife?


My wife's great grandma according to the rumour.
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Post #12 by edgar_dong » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:34 pm

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:My wife's great grandma according to the rumour.


Jesus Christ, can your family not let your grandé nana rest in peace?
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Post #13 by PPJ » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:12 pm

brownman wrote:Jesus Christ, can your family not let your grandé nana rest in peace?


My wife's great nana. My great nanas were pious women. My wife's was a slut apparantly. Death doesn't change that, much to my wife's chagrin.
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Post #14 by edgar_dong » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:16 pm

I always knew your grandé nanas to be porous.
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Post #15 by Mufasa » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:02 pm

brownman wrote:I always knew your grandé nanas to be porous.


[YOUTUBE]kBNKbG7rr4Y[/YOUTUBE]
Outside point of view wisdom™

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Post #16 by Slick Nick » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:27 am

British journalist known for anti-russian stance denies presence of russian troops among eastern rebels live on Ukrainian TV.

[YOUTUBE]Yq8kc4izDrQ[/YOUTUBE]
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Post #17 by Slick Nick » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:46 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Well, I'm convinced. We should all give up the rule of law and a free press and become backwards Russian colonies now after this startling revelation.


Yeah, well this video pretty much sums up the freedom of press in Ukraine... the only reason this journalist was invited on the panel is because he's known to be very critical of Putin and Russia. As soon as he tells the very unconvinient truth about the non involvement of Russia in Eastern Ukraine; he's called a liar, an imbecile, a KGB agent and whatnot. There is no freedom of press in Kiev whatsoever.. those on the streets who dare opposing the regime get thrown in jail or get beaten up, those in politics get kicked out of the Rada.. freedom my ass.
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Post #18 by Pennywise » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:58 am

If I am reading the Tweeter correctly..Russia just invaded Ukraine.
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Post #19 by Pennywise » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:45 am

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

Ukraine is bringing in the big guns now. (well, theirs at least)

12 BM-30's and 3 9K33 Osa. This isn't for the rebels.

[YOUTUBE]75IOh1Fpwr8[/YOUTUBE]

Russian MI-28 attack helicopters started patrolling the border:

[YOUTUBE]OFiaIpcDxwI[/YOUTUBE]

[youtube]gL_H4puL_tU[/youtube]

Claims of paratroopers landing in Kharkiv.
http://www.unian.net/politics/931042-snbo-ne-oprovergaet-i-ne-podtverjdaet-dannyie-o-rossiyskom-desante-v-ukraine.html


A ton of videos of huge supposedly Russian convoys, but they take forever to get going so I didn't post it.
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Post #20 by Jaymz » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:24 am

Thank God Russia’s is near, to ensure freedom for the Ukrainian people. Okay, maybe just the Russian speaking people. Okay, maybe just the Russian speaking people who want to break up Ukraine and join Russia. Okay, maybe just the Russian speaking people want to break up Ukraine, join Russia and live near exploitable natural resources.
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Post #21 by Slick Nick » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:19 pm

[YOUTUBE]nWT5HM_NMlI[/YOUTUBE]
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Post #22 by Pennywise » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:04 pm

Polish foreign minister says country's alliance with US worthless
According to a transcript of recordings obtained by Wprost, Radislaw Sikorski said 'we gave the US a blow job'

lolollolollol


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/22/poland-foreign-minister-alliance-us-worthless
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Post #23 by Ernie » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:04 pm

As much as that sounds crazy, I can't help but think to what levels of desperation the Americans would be driven to if you switched roles and the Russians were involved in a country on the American border to back up a regime that was hostile to the US.

Would the US even think twice about invading?
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Post #24 by PPJ » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:34 pm

Ernie wrote:As much as that sounds crazy, I can't help but think to what levels of desperation the Americans would be driven to if you switched roles and the Russians were involved in a country on the American border to back up a regime that was hostile to the US.

Would the US even think twice about invading?


Cuba
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Post #25 by Pennywise » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:23 am

Russian lawmakers revoked Putins original request to send troops in. Show of good faith.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0F00VG20140625?irpc=932
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Post #26 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:46 pm

Shredder wrote:Russian lawmakers revoked Putins original request to send troops in. Show of good faith.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0F00VG20140625?irpc=932


LOL, Putin is fucking with everyone.
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Post #27 by Pennywise » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:50 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:LOL, Putin is fucking with everyone.


The old..we tried diplomacy and extending an olive branch before we invaded gimmick?
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Post #28 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:17 am

US warns Russia to stop terrorizing Ukraine, while thousands of Ukranians flee to... Russia.
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Post #29 by RTWAP » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:43 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:US warns Russia to stop terrorizing Ukraine, while thousands of Ukranians flee to... Russia.


That just proves they were never really Ukrainians.

:crossarms:
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Post #30 by PredsFan77 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:09 pm

Probably just going to Sochi for the summer.
CDX.NA.IG.9









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Post #31 by Slick Nick » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:41 pm

RTWAP wrote:That just proves they were never really Ukrainians.

:crossarms:



I myself do not know whether my soul is Ukrainian
[Холхлацкая]
2 or Russian [Русская]. I know only that on no
account would I give priority to the Little Russians
[Малороссянину]
3 before the Russian [Русским], or to the
Russian before the Little Russian. Both natures are too richly
endowed by God, and, as if by design, each of them separately
contains within itself what the other lacks—a sure sign that they
complement one another.4

Nikolai Gogol, 1844.
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Post #32 by Pennywise » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:28 pm

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

Image

Never a good sign. Ceasefire over. Ukraine back on the offensive.

Poroshenko ends his address with: 'There has never been a war that didn't end with peace. Glory to Ukraine!'

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/poroshenko-we-will-attack-and-we-will-liberate-our-land-354062.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28101812#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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Post #33 by Bernie Bernbaum » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:01 am

Shredder wrote: 'There has never been a war that didn't end with peace.'


Jesus titty-fucking Christ.
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Post #34 by Dr_Chimera » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:02 am

Poroshenko is US puppet: http://scgnews.com/leaked-documents-ukraines-new-president-works-for-the-us-state-department

In other words, the US is remote-controlling bombings in eastern Ukraine as we speak.
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Post #35 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:19 pm

I see this as a correct narrative on Ukraine: http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/03/itching-for-a-genocide/

One thing that should have been mentioned is the fact that Poroshenko has been a CIA collaborator for many years, and was only voted in by an unsuspecting public because of his supposed "moderate" views. So much for that.
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Post #36 by Ernie » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:42 pm

Putin, pure as the driven snow. A man. A champion. A leader!
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Post #37 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:24 pm

The Ukranian minister of defense (that is, the guy bombing Eastern Ukraine, under orders of the US government) is a neo-fascist Svoboda member.

Let this sink in. The United States is collaborating with a Ukranian fascist to bomb cities and kill people in Eastern Ukraine.
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Post #38 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:54 pm

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Post #39 by edgar_dong » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:06 pm



Do you happen to have a transcript, good buddy?
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Post #40 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:09 pm

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/06/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/#.U5R3x_4nUAc.facebook

From about a month ago, but still useful context.

Washington’s Iron Curtain in Ukraine
by DIANA JOHNSTONE

NATO leaders are currently acting out a deliberate charade in Europe, designed to reconstruct an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West.

With astonishing unanimity, NATO leaders feign surprise at events they planned months in advance. Events that they deliberately triggered are being misrepresented as sudden, astonishing, unjustified “Russian aggression”. The United States and the European Union undertook an aggressive provocation in Ukraine that they knew would force Russia to react defensively, one way or another.

They could not be sure exactly how Russian president Vladimir Putin would react when he saw that the United States was manipulating political conflict in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government intent on joining NATO. This was not a mere matter of a “sphere of influence” in Russia’s “near abroad”, but a matter of life and death to the Russian Navy, as well as a grave national security threat on Russia’s border.

A trap was thereby set for Putin. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. He could underreact, and betray Russia’s basic national interests, allowing NATO to advance its hostile forces to an ideal attack position.

Or he could overreact, by sending Russian forces to invade Ukraine. The West was ready for this, prepared to scream that Putin was “the new Hitler”, poised to overrun poor, helpless Europe, which could only be saved (again) by the generous Americans.

In reality, the Russian defensive move was a very reasonable middle course. Thanks to the fact that the overwhelming majority of Crimeans felt Russian, having been Russian citizens until Khrushchev frivolously bestowed the territory on Ukraine in 1954, a peaceful democratic solution was found. Crimeans voted for their return to Russia in a referendum which was perfectly legal according to international law, although in violation of the Ukrainian constitution, which was by then in tatters having just been violated by the overthrow of the country’s duly elected president, Victor Yanukovych, facilitated by violent militias. The change of status of Crimea was achieved without bloodshed, by the ballot box.

Nevertheless, the cries of indignation from the West were every bit as hysterically hostile as if Putin had overreacted and subjected Ukraine to a U.S.-style bombing campaign, or invaded the country outright – which they may have expected him to do.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry led the chorus of self-righteous indignation, accusing Russia of the sort of thing his own government is in the habit of doing. “You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests. This is an act of aggression that is completely trumped up in terms of its pretext”, Kerry pontificated. “It’s really 19th century behavior in the 21st century”. Instead of laughing at this hypocrisy, U.S. media, politicians and punditry zealously took up the theme of Putin’s unacceptable expansionist aggression. The Europeans followed with a weak, obedient echo.

It Was All Planned at Yalta

In September 2013, one of Ukraine’s richest oligarchs, Viktor Pinchuk, paid for an elite strategic conference on Ukraine’s future that was held in the same Palace in Yalta, Crimea, where Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill met to decide the future of Europe in 1945. The Economist, one of the elite media reporting on what it called a “display of fierce diplomacy”, stated that: “The future of Ukraine, a country of 48m people, and of Europe was being decided in real time.” The participants included Bill and Hillary Clinton, former CIA head General David Petraeus, former U.S. Treasury secretary Lawrence Summers, former World Bank head Robert Zoellick, Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt, Shimon Peres, Tony Blair, Gerhard Schröder, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Mario Monti, Lithuanian president Dalia Grybauskaite, and Poland’s influential foreign minister Radek Sikorski. Both President Viktor Yanukovych, deposed five months later, and his recently elected successor Petro Poroshenko were present. Former U.S. energy secretary Bill Richardson was there to talk about the shale-gas revolution which the United States hopes to use to weaken Russia by substituting fracking for Russia’s natural gas reserves. The center of discussion was the “Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement” (DCFTA) between Ukraine and the European Union, and the prospect of Ukraine’s integration with the West. The general tone was euphoria over the prospect of breaking Ukraine’s ties with Russia in favor of the West.

Conspiracy against Russia? Not at all. Unlike Bilderberg, the proceedings were not secret. Facing a dozen or so American VIPs and a large sampling of the European political elite was a Putin adviser named Sergei Glazyev, who made Russia’s position perfectly clear.

Glazyev injected a note of political and economic realism into the conference. Forbes reported at the time on the “stark difference” between the Russian and Western views “not over the advisability of Ukraine’s integration with the EU but over its likely impact.” In contrast to Western euphoria, the Russian view was based on “very specific and foolsjohnstonepointed economic criticisms” about the Trade Agreement’s impact on Ukraine’s economy, noting that Ukraine was running an enormous foreign accounts deficit, funded with foreign borrowing, and that the resulting substantial increase in Western imports ccould only swell the deficit. Ukraine “will either default on its debts or require a sizable bailout”.

The Forbes reporter concluded that “the Russian position is far closer to the truth than the happy talk coming from Brussels and Kiev.”

As for the political impact, Glazyev pointed out that the Russian-speaking minority in Eastern Ukraine might move to split the country in protest against cutting ties with Russia, and that Russia would be legally entitled to support them, according to The Times of London.

In short, while planning to incorporate Ukraine into the Western sphere, Western leaders were perfectly aware that this move would entail serious problems with Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and with Russia itself. Rather than seeking to work out a compromise, Western leaders decided to forge ahead and to blame Russia for whatever would go wrong. What went wrong first was that Yanukovych got cold feet faced with the economic collapse implied by the Trade Agreement with the European Union. He postponed signing, hoping for a better deal. Since none of this was explained clearly to the Ukrainian public, outraged protests ensued, which were rapidly exploited by the United States… against Russia.

Ukraine as Bridge…Or Achilles Heel

Ukraine, a term meaning borderland, is a country without clearly fixed historical borders that has been stretched too far to the East and too far to the West. The Soviet Union was responsible for this, but the Soviet Union no longer exists, and the result is a country without a unified identity and which emerges as a problem for itself and for its neighbors.

It was extended too far East, incorporating territory that might as well have been Russian, as part of a general policy to distinguish the USSR from the Tsarist empire, enlarging Ukraine at the expense of its Russian component and demonstrating that the Soviet Union was really a union among equal socialist republics. So long as the whole Soviet Union was run by the Communist leadership, these borders didn’t matter too much.

It was extended too far West at the end of World War II. The victorious Soviet Union extended Ukraine’s border to include Western regions, dominated by the city variously named Lviv, Lwow, Lemberg or Lvov, depending on whether it belonged to Lithuania, Poland, the Habsburg Empire or the USSR, a region which was a hotbed of anti-Russian sentiments. This was no doubt conceived as a defensive move, to neutralize hostile elements, but it created the fundamentally divided nation that today constitutes the perfect troubled waters for hostile fishing.

The Forbes report cited above pointed out that: “For most of the past five years, Ukraine was basically playing a double game, telling the EU that it was interested in signing the DCFTA while telling the Russians that it was interested in joining the customs union.” Either Yanukovych could not make up his mind, or was trying to squeeze the best deal out of both sides, or was seeking the highest bidder. In any case, he was never “Moscow’s man”, and his downfall owes a lot no doubt to his own role in playing both ends against the middle. His was a dangerous game of pitting greater powers against each other.

It is safe to say that what was needed was something that so far seems totally lacking in Ukraine: a leadership that recognizes the divided nature of the country and works diplomatically to find a solution that satisfies both the local populations and their historic ties with the Catholic West and with Russia. In short, Ukraine could be a bridge between East and West – and this, incidentally, has been precisely the Russian position. The Russian position has not been to split Ukraine, much less to conquer it, but to facilitate the country’s role as bridge. This would involve a degree of federalism, of local government, which so far is entirely lacking in the country, with local governors selected not by election but by the central government in Kiev. A federal Ukraine could both develop relations with the EU and maintain its vital (and profitable) economic relations with Russia.

But this arrangement calls for Western readiness to cooperate with Russia. The United States has plainly vetoed this possibility, preferring to exploit the crisis to brand Russia “the enemy”.

Plan A and Plan B

U.S. policy, already evident at the September 2013 Yalta meeting, was carried out on the ground by Victoria Nuland, former advisor to Dick Cheney, deputy ambassador to NATO, spokeswoman for Hillary Clinton, wife of neocon theorist Robert Kagan. Her leading role in the Ukraine events proves that the neo-con influence in the State Department, established under Bush II, was retained by Obama, whose only visible contribution to foreign policy change has been the presence of a man of African descent in the presidency, calculated to impress the world with U.S. multicultural virtue. Like most other recent presidents, Obama is there as a temporary salesman for policies made and executed by others.

As Victoria Nuland boasted in Washington, since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the United States has spent five billion dollars to gain political influence in Ukraine (this is called “promoting democracy” ;) . This investment is not “for oil”, or for any immediate economic advantage. The primary motives are geopolitical, because Ukraine is Russia’s Achilles’ heel, the territory with the greatest potential for causing trouble to Russia.

What called public attention to Victoria Nuland’s role in the Ukrainian crisis was her use of a naughty word, when she told the U.S. ambassador, “Fuck the EU”. But the fuss over her bad language veiled her bad intentions. The issue was who should take power away from the elected president Viktor Yanukovych. German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s party been promoting former boxer Vitaly Klitschko as its candidate. Nuland’s rude rebuff signified that the United States, not Germany or the EU, was to choose the next leader, and that was not Klitschko but “Yats”. And indeed it was Yats, Arseniy Yatsenyuk , a second-string US-sponsored technocrat known for his enthusiasm for IMF austerity policies and NATO membership, who got the job. This put a U.S. sponsored government, enforced in the streets by fascist militia with little electoral clout but plenty of armed meanness, in a position to manage the May 25 elections, from which the Russophone East was largely excluded.

Plan A for the Victoria Nuland putsch was probably to install, rapidly, a government in Kiev that would join NATO, thus formally setting the stage for the United States to take possession of Russia’s indispensable Black Sea naval base at Sebastopol in Crimea. Reincorporating Crimea into Russia was Putin’s necessary defensive move to prevent this.

But the Nuland gambit was in fact a win-win ploy. If Russia failed to defend itself, it risked losing its entire southern fleet – a total national disaster. On the other hand, if Russia reacted, as was most likely, the US thereby won a political victory that was perhaps its main objective. Putin’s totally defensive move is portrayed by the Western mainstream media, echoing political leaders, as unprovoked “Russian expansionism”, which the propaganda machine compares to Hitler grabbing Czechoslovakia and Poland.

Thus a blatant Western provocation, using Ukrainian political confusion against a fundamentally defensive Russia, has astonishingly succeeded in producing a total change in the artificial Zeitgeist produced by Western mass media. Suddenly, we are told that the “freedom-loving West” is faced with the threat of “aggressive Russian expansionism”. Some forty years ago, Soviet leaders gave away the store under the illusion that peaceful renunciation on their part could lead to a friendly partnership with the West, and especially with the United States. But those in the United States who never wanted to end the Cold War are having their revenge. Never mind “communism”; if, instead of advocating the dictatorship of the proletariat, Russia’s current leader is simply old-fashioned in certain ways, Western media can fabricate a monster out of that. The United States needs an enemy to save the world from.

The Protection Racket Returns

But first of all, the United States needs Russia as an enemy in order to “save Europe”, which is another way to say, in order to continue to dominate Europe. Washington policy-makers seemed to be worried that Obama’s swing to Asia and neglect of Europe might weaken U.S. control of its NATO allies. The May 25 European Parliament elections revealed a large measure of disaffection with the European Union. This disaffection, notably in France, is linked to a growing realization that the EU, far from being a potential alternative to the United States, is in reality a mechanism that locks European countries into U.S.-defined globalization, economic decline and U.S. foreign policy, wars and all.

Ukraine is not the only entity that has been overextended. So has the EU. With 28 members of diverse language, culture, history and mentality, the EU is unable to agree on any foreign policy other than the one Washington imposes. The extension of the EU to former Eastern European satellites has totally broken whatever deep consensus might have been possible among the countries of the original Economic Community: France, Germany, Italy and the Benelux states. Poland and the Baltic States see EU membership as useful, but their hearts are in America – where many of their most influential leaders have been educated and trained. Washington is able to exploit the anti-communist, anti-Russian and even pro-Nazi nostalgia of northeastern Europe to raise the false cry of “the Russians are coming!” in order to obstruct the growing economic partnership between the old EU, notably Germany, and Russia.

Russia is no threat. But to vociferous Russophobes in the Baltic States, Western Ukraine and Poland, the very existence of Russia is a threat. Encouraged by the United States and NATO, this endemic hostility is the political basis for the new “iron curtain” meant to achieve the aim spelled out in 1997 by Zbigniew Brzezinski in The Grand Chessboard: keeping the Eurasian continent divided in order to perpetuate U.S. world hegemony. The old Cold War served that purpose, cementing U.S. military presence and political influence in Western Europe. A new Cold War can prevent U.S. influence from being diluted by good relations between Western Europe and Russia.

Obama has come to Europe ostentatiously promising to “protect” Europe by basing more troops in regions as close as possible to Russia, while at the same time ordering Russia to withdraw its own troops, on its own territory, still farther away from troubled Ukraine. This appears designed to humiliate Putin and deprive him of political support at home, at a time when protests are rising in Eastern Ukraine against the Russian leader for abandoning them to killers sent from Kiev.

To tighten the U.S. grip on Europe, the United States is using the artificial crisis to demand that its indebted allies spend more on “defense”, notably by purchasing U.S. weapons systems. Although the U.S. is still far from being able to meet Europe’s energy needs from the new U.S. fracking boom, this prospect is being hailed as a substitute for Russia’s natural gas sales – stigmatized as a “way of exercising political pressure”, something of which hypothetic U.S. energy sales are presumed to be innocent. Pressure is being brought against Bulgaria and even Serbia to block construction of the South Stream pipeline that would bring Russian gas into the Balkans and southern Europe.

From D-Day to Dooms Day

Today, June 6, the seventieth anniversary of the D-Day landing is being played in Normandy as a gigantic celebration of American domination, with Obama heading an all-star cast of European leaders. The last of the aged surviving soldiers and aviators present are like the ghosts of a more innocent age when the United States was only at the start of its new career as world master. They were real, but the rest is a charade. French television is awash with the tears of young villagers in Normandy who have been taught that the United States is some sort of Guardian Angel, which sent its boys to die on the shores of Normandy out of pure love for France. This idealized image of the past is implicitly projected on the future. In seventy years, the Cold War, a dominant propaganda narrative and above all Hollywood have convinced the French, and most of the West, that D-Day was the turning point that won World War II and saved Europe from Nazi Germany.

Vladimir Putin came to the celebration, and has been elaborately shunned by Obama, self-appointed arbiter of Virtue. The Russians are paying tribute to the D-Day operation which liberated France from Nazi occupation, but they – and historians – know what most of the West has forgotten: that the Wehrmacht was decisively defeated not by the Normandy landing, but by the Red Army. If the vast bulk of German forces had not been pinned down fighting a losing war on the Eastern front, nobody would celebrate D-Day as it is being celebrated today.

Putin is widely credited as being “the best chess player”, who won the first round of the Ukrainian crisis. He has no doubt done the best he could, faced with the crisis foisted on him. But the U.S. has whole ranks of pawns which Putin does not have. And this is not only a chess game, but chess combined with poker combined with Russian roulette. The United States is ready to take risks that the more prudent Russian leaders prefer to avoid… as long as possible.

Perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of the current charade is the servility of the “old” Europeans. Apparently abandoning all Europe’s accumulated wisdom, drawn from its wars and tragedies, and even oblivious to their own best interests, today’s European leaders seem ready to follow their American protectors to another D-Day … D for Doom.

Can the presence of a peace-seeking Russian leader in Normandy make a difference? All it would take would be for mass media to tell the truth, and for Europe to produce reasonably wise and courageous leaders, for the whole fake war machine to lose its luster, and for truth to begin to dawn. A peaceful Europe is still possible, but for how long?
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Post #41 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:11 pm

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Post #42 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:27 pm

On 2 May, in Odessa, 41 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the trade union headquarters with police standing by. There is horrifying video evidence. The Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh hailed the massacre as “another bright day in our national history”. In the American and British media, this was reported as a “murky tragedy” resulting from “clashes” between “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) and “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). The New York Times buried it, having dismissed as Russian propaganda warnings about the fascist and anti-Semitic policies of Washington’s new clients. The Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says”. Obama congratulated the junta for its “restraint”.

On 28 June, the Guardian devoted most of a page to declarations by the Kiev regime’s “president”, the oligarch Petro Poroshenko. Again, Orwell’s rule of inversion applied. There was no putsch; no war against Ukraine’s minority; the Russians were to blame for everything. “We want to modernise my country,” said Poroshenko. “We want to introduce freedom, democracy and European values. Somebody doesn’t like that. Somebody doesn’t like us for that.”

According to his report, the Guardian’s reporter, Luke Harding, did not challenge these assertions, or mention the Odessa atrocity, the regime’s air and artillery attacks on residential areas, the killing and kidnapping of journalists, the firebombing of an opposition newspaper and his threat to “free Ukraine from dirt and parasites”. The enemy are “rebels”, “militants”, “insurgents”, “terrorists” and stooges of the Kremlin. Summon from history the ghosts of Vietnam, Chile, East Timor, southern Africa, Iraq; note the same tags. Palestine is the lodestone of this unchanging deceit. On 11 July, following the latest Israeli, American equipped slaughter in Gaza – 80 people including six children in one family — an Israeli general writes in the Guardian under the headline, “A necessary show of force”.


http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/11/on-israel-ukraine-and-truth/
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Post #43 by RTWAP » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:27 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/06/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/#.U5R3x_4nUAc.facebook

From about a month ago, but still useful context.


There's some very blatant spin in that article.

Saying the Crimea annexation was in accordance with international law is just wrong. International law is pretty fuzzy, but as it related to declaring independence, it appears that the principle of freedom to make such decisions is also limited by a need to negotiate such a departure (in good faith) from the original nation, and requires an expression of public will via referendum that is internationally recognized as clear, fair, and uncontrovertible. The rushed Crimea referendum was not clear or fair, and was anything but uncontrovertible.

Russia did it because it could, and because the advantages were significant. And because they figured most Crimeans would either agree ahead of time or acquiesce after the fact.

Russia didn't need to do it. They could have moved their fleet base elsewhere. Or just kept it like the Americans did with Guantanamo, not that Ukraine was threatening to kick them out. They took it because it saved them the inconvenience. It gained them significant undersea resource rights. It punished Ukraine for straying from the fold. And because Crimea was ethnically quite Russian.

I've always been confused as to why Russia has a fleet there in the first place. They're four seas away from an ocean and have to pass through 3 straights controlled by NATO to reach the Atlantic. It's not about projecting global power. It's about projecting power in the Black Sea.

I don't think the Americans are blameless in this. They're playing a game. But so are the Russians. And the Russians seem to think that fear is a preferable tool to admiration. They don't want their neighbours to have the option to join the EU or NATO. But they have no right to intervene, other than some sense that they're special and get to make other countries' decisions for them.

At the heart of it, the public protests wouldn't have been effective if the people hadn't felt they had a chance to escape being a Russian satellite, and then have that chance snatched from them due to pressure. Russia's neighbours fear them in a way that America's don't. And nobody fears the EU. That is Russia's problem, and the reason why claiming this is all about Russia defending itself seems a threadbare excuse. It's about Russia defending its "right" to constrain and control its neighbours.
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Post #44 by Pennywise » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:27 am

Russia said Ukraine sent artillery fire across the border and killed one civilian inside of Russia. They put out a warning saying there will be harsh consequences.

Fast forward an hour, now Russia is saying Ukraine is violating its airspace.

You can't make this shit up.
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Post #45 by Pennywise » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:27 pm

that's what I mean. I was being sarcastic. That's suicidal for Ukraine unless we want to believe evil Nazi's are trying to provoke Russia into a war.

Russian Federation is calling for airstrikes like in Gaza.
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Post #46 by Pennywise » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:02 pm

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Post #47 by Slick Nick » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:59 am

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Post #48 by Pennywise » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:52 am

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