The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:10 pm

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don't give a shit. do what you want.
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Total votes: 16
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1101 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:59 am

Dog wrote:But you guys are right. There is no anti-establisment mood. Everything is business as usual in western politics.


There certainly is an anti-establishment mood, but it is not a blanket to toss around without care. The Brexit vote was very anti-establishment ... This election? Significantly less so. Let Pen's success ... Yes. Macron is a mixed bag.

Trump is anti-establishment, but he benefited mightily from a fragmented and weak primary field.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1102 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:02 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:But you guys are right. There is no anti-establisment mood. Everything is business as usual in western politics.


There certainly is an anti-establishment mood, but it is not a blanket to toss around without care. The Brexit vote was very anti-establishment ... This election? Significantly less so. Let Pen's success ... Yes. Macron is a mixed bag.

Trump is anti-establishment, but he benefited mightily from a fragmented and weak primary field.


Don't disagree at all with that, but I do think you are underplaying Corbyn's appeal in the UK election (mostly because you don't like it's potential implications for the US Democrats).
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1103 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:08 pm

I'd like to remind you Jester that you assured us Hillary would trash Trump and Corbyn's humiliation be a cautionary tale for US democrats.

Both sound positions in the traditional sense, but both proved to miss the mark considerably. Maybe there has been a shift in electorate's mood that is confounding traditional expectations.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1104 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:09 pm

I mean, I thought exactly the same as you. But now have moved on the the dark side.

:paranoid:
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1105 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:But you guys are right. There is no anti-establisment mood. Everything is business as usual in western politics.


There certainly is an anti-establishment mood, but it is not a blanket to toss around without care. The Brexit vote was very anti-establishment ... This election? Significantly less so. Let Pen's success ... Yes. Macron is a mixed bag.

Trump is anti-establishment, but he benefited mightily from a fragmented and weak primary field.


Don't disagree at all with that, but I do think you are underplaying Corbyn's appeal in the UK election (mostly because you don't like it's potential implications for the US Democrats).


I mean, I'm citing public polling ... on Corbyn's appeal.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1106 by AD » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:09 pm

You ok Dog. You need a hug?

I don't think Jester and I are saying that there is no anti-establishment mood. I think we're saying that the mood has given various results in various places based on so many factors it is too simplistic to draw a line between all these results to fit your narrative.

Especially on Macron and Corbyn/Labour.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1107 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:14 pm

AD wrote:You ok Dog. You need a hug?

I don't think Jester and I are saying that there is no anti-establishment mood. I think we're saying that the mood has given various results in various places based on so many factors it is too simplistic to draw a line between all these results to fit your narrative.

Especially on Macron and Corbyn/Labour.


I'm fine. I'm eating a soup. My narrative is that the political landscape has opened up and that movements previously thought impossible to succeed can now succeed. There should be a rethining of old paradigms of what is electable.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1108 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:14 pm

Dog wrote:I'd like to remind you Jester that you assured us Hillary would trash Trump and Corbyn's humiliation be a cautionary tale for US democrats.

Both sound positions in the traditional sense, but both proved to miss the mark considerably. Maybe there has been a shift in electorate's mood that is confounding traditional expectations.


I mean, she won by 3M votes ... the fact that she lost the EC with that margin remains relatively remarkable. It also relied on some pretty abnormal inputs from the FBI, etc. If you go back to those convos, I also said it was going to be a very close election due to partisanship ... I did not think she'd "trash" Trump.

I'd just like to caution against an analytical overcorrection.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1109 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:19 pm

Dog wrote:
AD wrote:You ok Dog. You need a hug?

I don't think Jester and I are saying that there is no anti-establishment mood. I think we're saying that the mood has given various results in various places based on so many factors it is too simplistic to draw a line between all these results to fit your narrative.

Especially on Macron and Corbyn/Labour.


I'm fine. I'm eating a soup. My narrative is that the political landscape has opened up and that movements previously thought impossible to succeed can now succeed. There should be a rethining of old paradigms of what is electable.


Right, but this seems to be ignoring an important question: forget about Corbyn, in the wake of Brexit (deeply unpopular with segments of UK pop), why wouldn't Labour pick up some seats? This is why May's move was a gamble, and a bit greedy.

I'll turn this around. Dems remain a bit of a mess in the US, but it would be astonishing if they don't pick up seats in the House of Reps right now.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1110 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:20 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I'd like to remind you Jester that you assured us Hillary would trash Trump and Corbyn's humiliation be a cautionary tale for US democrats.

Both sound positions in the traditional sense, but both proved to miss the mark considerably. Maybe there has been a shift in electorate's mood that is confounding traditional expectations.


I mean, she won by 3M votes ... the fact that she lost the EC with that margin remains relatively remarkable. It also relied on some pretty abnormal inputs from the FBI, etc. If you go back to those convos, I also said it was going to be a very close election due to partisanship ... I did not think she'd "trash" Trump.

I'd just like to caution against an analytical overcorrection.


Right, it was close. A charismatic dem candidate would likely have won it. There is not just populist outrage in the electorate, but there is a strong dose of it and it's skewing results in very unusual ways.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1111 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:27 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I'd like to remind you Jester that you assured us Hillary would trash Trump and Corbyn's humiliation be a cautionary tale for US democrats.

Both sound positions in the traditional sense, but both proved to miss the mark considerably. Maybe there has been a shift in electorate's mood that is confounding traditional expectations.


I mean, she won by 3M votes ... the fact that she lost the EC with that margin remains relatively remarkable. It also relied on some pretty abnormal inputs from the FBI, etc. If you go back to those convos, I also said it was going to be a very close election due to partisanship ... I did not think she'd "trash" Trump.

I'd just like to caution against an analytical overcorrection.


Right, it was close. A charismatic dem candidate would likely have won it. There is not just populist outrage in the electorate, but there is a strong dose of it and it's skewing results in very unusual ways.


I think populism explains the primary (on both sides) more than the general in the US, personally. Partisanship works better for the general given that both candidates were broadly unpopular. I don't think the US result was really unusual beyond the way the EC favors the GOP.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1112 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
AD wrote:You ok Dog. You need a hug?

I don't think Jester and I are saying that there is no anti-establishment mood. I think we're saying that the mood has given various results in various places based on so many factors it is too simplistic to draw a line between all these results to fit your narrative.

Especially on Macron and Corbyn/Labour.


I'm fine. I'm eating a soup. My narrative is that the political landscape has opened up and that movements previously thought impossible to succeed can now succeed. There should be a rethining of old paradigms of what is electable.


Right, but this seems to be ignoring an important question: forget about Corbyn, in the wake of Brexit (deeply unpopular with segments of UK pop), why wouldn't Labour pick up some seats? This is why May's move was a gamble, and a bit greedy.

I'll turn this around. Dems remain a bit of a mess in the US, but it would be astonishing if they don't pick up seats in the House of Reps right now.


I don't think I've seen anything that shows the biggest movement of votes was from Tories to Labour because of Brexit. You'd think the LibDems would have been the best home for those votes. The major movements, from my understanding, was increase of youth vote (which you have to nod to Corbyn's appeal with that democraphic) and UKIP's collapse (which was split between Labour and Tory pickups). Labour attracted both working class former UKIPers (as they were pro-brexit) and youth votes (which I'd put on Corbyn's idealistic appeal). Seems to me socialist, pro-brexit Corbyn had alot to do with picking up votes (compared to much more centrist, pro-eu labour establishment).
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1113 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:35 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
I mean, she won by 3M votes ... the fact that she lost the EC with that margin remains relatively remarkable. It also relied on some pretty abnormal inputs from the FBI, etc. If you go back to those convos, I also said it was going to be a very close election due to partisanship ... I did not think she'd "trash" Trump.

I'd just like to caution against an analytical overcorrection.


Right, it was close. A charismatic dem candidate would likely have won it. There is not just populist outrage in the electorate, but there is a strong dose of it and it's skewing results in very unusual ways.


I think populism explains the primary (on both sides) more than the general in the US, personally. Partisanship works better for the general given that both candidates were broadly unpopular. I don't think the US result was really unusual beyond the way the EC favors the GOP.


I think distinguishing between US and UK electorates makes more sense (to me) than not recognizing Corbyn's surprisingly strong appeal in the UK election.

Poor Joe Biden. He would have been perfect for the last US election. He can match a populist working class appeal -I don't think he would have lost the rust belt states.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1114 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
I'm fine. I'm eating a soup. My narrative is that the political landscape has opened up and that movements previously thought impossible to succeed can now succeed. There should be a rethining of old paradigms of what is electable.


Right, but this seems to be ignoring an important question: forget about Corbyn, in the wake of Brexit (deeply unpopular with segments of UK pop), why wouldn't Labour pick up some seats? This is why May's move was a gamble, and a bit greedy.

I'll turn this around. Dems remain a bit of a mess in the US, but it would be astonishing if they don't pick up seats in the House of Reps right now.


I don't think I've seen anything that shows the biggest movement of votes was from Tories to Labour because of Brexit. You'd think the LibDems would have been the best home for those votes. The major movements, from my understanding, was increase of youth vote (which you have to nod to Corbyn's appeal with that democraphic) and UKIP's collapse (which was split between Labour and Tory pickups). Labour attracted both working class former UKIPers (as they were pro-brexit) and youth votes (which I'd put on Corbyn's idealistic appeal). Seems to me socialist, pro-brexit Corbyn had alot to do with picking up votes (compared to much more centrist, pro-eu labour establishment).


75% of voters under the age of 24 voted Remain. So, I'm dubious that Corbyn's approach to Brexit helped there.

Labour is becoming an increasingly cosmopolitan, educated, and youth vote party ... and has shed a lot of its share of working class voters. It's also clear that Brexit had an influence on voting patterns. Here are some useful charts on demographics:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com ... 14ce4af89b
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1115 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:51 pm

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:
Right, it was close. A charismatic dem candidate would likely have won it. There is not just populist outrage in the electorate, but there is a strong dose of it and it's skewing results in very unusual ways.


I think populism explains the primary (on both sides) more than the general in the US, personally. Partisanship works better for the general given that both candidates were broadly unpopular. I don't think the US result was really unusual beyond the way the EC favors the GOP.


I think distinguishing between US and UK electorates makes more sense (to me) than not recognizing Corbyn's surprisingly strong appeal in the UK election.

Poor Joe Biden. He would have been perfect for the last US election. He can match a populist working class appeal -I don't think he would have lost the rust belt states.


Labour, Dog. Labour. Only one constituency voted for Corbyn. Now, did those votes happen without thought for Corbyn? I doubt that, but voting for a Labour MP is not the same as the direct democracy of a presidential system. A lot of GOP voters voted happily for a GOP ticket while holding their nose for the top of the ticket.

I think it remains to be seen if Corbyn's personal popularity has truly risen from the gutter.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1116 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:56 pm

Ah, that's probably where we diverge.

You think the youth vote flocked to Labour as an anti-Brexit backlash, I think it flocked to Corbyn as a socially liberal, socialist candidate. Labout has been a cosmopolitan, educated, urban party since Blair's New Labour days. In fact Corbyn has pushed Labour back to its old socialist roots after Milliband (the latest incarnation of cosmopolitan New labour) failed miserably. I think the youth vote is attracted to left wing, progressive positions (like it was attracted to Melenchon in France and Sanders in the US). Any real anti-Brexit vote should have gone to the LibDems -they were the only party that would have stopped Brexit. Corbyn has always been pro-Brexit. Ex-UKIPer working class Brexiters flocked to Labour. I think Corbyn's pro-Brexit stance allowed old UKIPers back and didn't hurt with the youth vote as his socialist chops had the bigger appeal with that group. If anti-Brexit sentiment was the prime mover of the youth vote, they would not have flocked so enthousiastically to pro-Brexit Corbyn.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1117 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pm

Dog wrote:Ah, that's probably where we diverge.

You think the youth vote flocked to Labour as an anti-Brexit backlash, I think it flocked to Corbyn as a socially liberal, socialist candidate. Labout has been a cosmopolitan, educated, urban party since Blair's New Labour days. In fact Corbyn has pushed Labour back to its old socialist roots after Milliband (the latest incarnation of cosmopolitan New labour) failed miserably. I think the youth vote is attracted to left wing, progressive positions (like it was attracted to Melenchon in France and Sanders in the US). Any real anti-Brexit vote should have gone to the LibDems -they were the only party that would have stopped Brexit. Corbyn has always been pro-Brexit. Ex-UKIPer working class Brexiters flocked to Labour. I think Corbyn's pro-Brexit stance allowed old UKIPers back and didn't hurt with the youth vote as his socialist chops had the bigger appeal with that group. If anti-Brexit sentiment was the prime mover of the youth vote, they would not have flocked so enthousiastically to pro-Brexit Corbyn.


The demographic movement has continued sharply since the Blair days. When Blair was elected the UK middle class was +20 Tory, and the working class roughly the same in Labour's favor. Today the middle class is essentially evenly split, and the working class vote has moved demonstrably towards the Tories.

As to the bolded ... the UK is a first-past-the-post system. That drives voters towards two parties ... Labour, and Tories. Again, I don't this outcome is nearly as anti-establishment as some are suggesting. The Tories gambled on the Brexit vote (blew up in their face), are following through on that outcome under May (who ran a pretty weak campaign), and they lost ground at the polls with the other major party making gains.

I'm also not sure why you are labeling Corbyn "pro-Brexit." Labour as a party was decidedly in the Remain camp, but Corbyn came under fire for presenting a muddled message on the referendum (though he did support Remaining publicly). And a significant majority of UKIP voters went conservative (roughly 60%), Labour picked up 18%. Now, Corbyn has said he is not going to fight Brexit at this point, but the UK is fucked over Brexit at this point no matter what.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1118 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:29 pm

Labour establishment was remain and gave Corbyn considerable flack for not coming out strongly for remain. I suspect Corbyn has always been a left wing brexiter. In any event, Corbyn is an odd choice as a rod attracting anti-brexit backlash. This election featured a return to the two big parties (each gained more votes than they had in decades), but I don't think that is because people returned to "mainstream". I think that is, at least in large part, because the left wing pole was within a mainstream party (which attracted the youth vote, I think) and the far right had been stunted by Brexit.

Are you sure only 18% of ex-UKIP voters flocked to Labour? On election night, I had seen that the split in ex -UKIP seats was roughly 50-50 between Labour and UKIP.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1119 by jester » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:36 pm

Dog wrote:Labour establishment was remain and gave Corbyn considerable flack for not coming out strongly for remain. I suspect Corbyn has always been a left wing brexiter. In any event, Corbyn is an odd choice as a rod for an anti-brexit backlash. This election featured a return to the two big parties (each gained more votes than they had in decades), but I don't think that is because people returned to "mainstream". I think that is, at least in large part, because the left wing pole was within a mainstream party (which attracted the youth vote, I think) and the right wing had been stunted by Brexit.

Are you sure only 18% of ex-UKIP voters flocked to Labour? On election night, I had seen that the split in ex -UKIP seats was roughly 50-50 between Labour and UKIP.


According to that FT data that I posted above ... it may not be opening, but it worked on my phone.

Well, sure, and this is the debate. Did Labour gain because of a positive or negative argument? In all likelihood, it's a combination of the two. But, again, as recently as March, Corbyn's favorability was polling pitifully. Did he make a massive recovery between then and now? Perhaps, but that would be a pretty impressive rebound. Given that, I think everyone should be treading carefully with regard to crowing about the success of a leftist political message. Additionally, part of the story here is the utter mess that has been Tory leadership. Which, of course, was my starting point ... this is an odd experiment in a leadership void in a parliamentary system. A system that ideally produces strong, capable leaders at the expense of direct democratic choice.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1120 by Dog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:48 pm

Found the FT article -could not open it on my phone when you posted earlier.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.ft.com/ ... 14ce4af89b

The data there supports your narrative (only 18% ukip vote going to labour, labour drawing in vote from libdems and greens, etc). This is different from what I had seen on election night on bbc and later on the guardian (ukip vote pretty evenly split, youth vote surge to corbyn being key for labour support).

We may just have been working with different data. I agree that low ex-ukip support to labour gives more credibility to argument that labour simply attracted urban, educated, youth, progressive vote.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1121 by PredsFan77 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:20 pm



Image

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CDX.NA.IG.9









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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1122 by mayoradamwest » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:09 pm

Russian assasins suspected of killing 14 in UK
https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/fro ... .livMzNpOa
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1123 by senate » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:52 pm

Image

Unfortunately, “other peoples’ money” has a way of ultimately coming out of our own pockets. If it costs more to build buildings, then rents will rise. People will be forced to live in smaller spaces, perhaps farther away. Some of them, in fact, may be forced to commute by automobile, and then die in a car accident. We don’t see those costs in the same way as we see a fire’s victims; we will never know the name of the guy who was killed in a car accident because he had to live far from work because rents rose because regulators required sprinkler systems.


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-16/beware-of-blaming-government-for-london-tower-fire
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1124 by Dog » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Stop quoting articles from the 19th century, senate.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1125 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:42 pm

Imagine thinking like that.....
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1126 by jester » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:35 pm

That's libertarianism gone too far in a nutshell. I also don't buy that developers can transfer costs so easily ... once units are on the market, that's a supply/demand problem. They aren't charging cheaper than the market allows because they could skimp on safety costs during construction. They're pocketing profits.
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Re: RE: Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1127 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:43 pm

jester wrote:That's libertarianism gone too far in a nutshell. I also don't buy that developers can transfer costs so easily ... once units are on the market, that's a supply/demand problem. They aren't charging cheaper than the market allows because they could skimp on safety costs during construction. They're pocketing profits.

100% true.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1128 by PredsFan77 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:54 pm

how is this for a lede:

It is barely a fortnight since Theresa May warned that Britain might head into Brexit negotiations with “a weak and unstable prime minister.” It’s happening. It’s her.



https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... -warned-of
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1129 by AD » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:09 pm

With even less sprinklers, we could afford a universal basic income and finally live in a post-work utopia. Well until we all die in housing fires.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1130 by jester » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:09 pm

AD wrote:With even less sprinklers, we could afford a universal basic income and finally live in a post-work utopia. Well until we all die in housing fires.


I get the appeal of devout libertarian political philosophy in the abstract ... but I can never shake the belief that much of the political philosophy is espoused by folks with little to no historical awareness. Or no soul/moral compass, take your pick. I mean, it is not like we haven't tried unbridled capitalism, etc., and the results were pretty fucking repulsive. I mean, basically you have to have the most glowingly optimistic view of humanity to buy into that kool aid.

I also get the sense from a good friend of mine that there is some wing of libertarian writing that produces some historical garbage to justify libertarian arguments. For example, he once tried to tell me about how back in the day individuals had their own personal artillery trains. [Narrator: No, they did not.]
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1131 by PredsFan77 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:39 am

Another False Flag attack in the UK.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1132 by Dog » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:09 am

Looks like there will be a serious legal challenge to the Tory-DUP alliance based on the good friday accords which stipulate that UK government must stay an "honest broker".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1133 by jester » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:04 am

Dog wrote:Looks like there will be a serious legal challenge to the Tory-DUP alliance based on the good friday accords which stipulate that UK government must stay an "honest broker".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other


Will be interesting to follow given the real limits on what "constitutional" means in the British setup.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1134 by mayoradamwest » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:13 pm

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:Looks like there will be a serious legal challenge to the Tory-DUP alliance based on the good friday accords which stipulate that UK government must stay an "honest broker".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other


Will be interesting to follow given the real limits on what "constitutional" means in the British setup.


Americans. :rolleyes:
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1135 by jester » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:47 pm

mayoradamwest wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:Looks like there will be a serious legal challenge to the Tory-DUP alliance based on the good friday accords which stipulate that UK government must stay an "honest broker".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other


Will be interesting to follow given the real limits on what "constitutional" means in the British setup.


Americans. :rolleyes:


This is more of a "British" :rolleyes: thing, as they lack the formal constitutional framework that most countries have (Canada included). It gets particularly tricky when you are talking about an action like this due to Parliamentary sovereignty.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1136 by Dog » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Yeah, it's tricky there. Unwritten constitution running on "principles" and one of the principles is parliamentary sovereignty. I remember having these maddening discussions with British lawyers when I was there on courts invalidating laws based on rights charters. I was all like, but the charter is in the constitution and they were all like but the parliament is sovereign! Wankers. EU principles gave them heartburn over this.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1137 by PredsFan77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:20 am

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1138 by Dog » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:58 am

Talk about a welfare queen.


Queen Elizabeth II is getting a 78% raise from the government
http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/27/news/qu ... index.html
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1139 by PredsFan77 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:37 am

I always looked at her more as a trap queen than a welfare queen
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1140 by PredsFan77 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:05 am

volvo shade in the FT today:


Some MPs argue Mr Hammond might act as a stopgap leader — perhaps serving for two years to deliver Brexit before standing aside — but the idea of the Conservatives fielding three prime ministers in a single parliament is seen as bizarre by many.

“What would be the point of Philip Hammond?” says one Tory MP. “It’s like deciding you want to change your Volvo and you come back from the garage with . . . another Volvo.”
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1141 by senate » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:51 pm

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1142 by PredsFan77 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:54 pm

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1143 by Dr_Chimera » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Storm the castle and kill the old bag.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1144 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:40 pm

Liberals, tories, same thing.

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1145 by PredsFan77 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:46 pm

how'd they get the exit poll results
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1146 by PredsFan77 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:17 pm

lol Terry

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -brexit-eu

Theresa May under pressure over ‘secret advice’ on halting Brexit
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1147 by PredsFan77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:19 am

lol these buffoons

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1148 by The Bytown Boozer » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:43 pm

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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1149 by PredsFan77 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:36 pm

lookin forward to the brits havin a mulatto queen, big day for OJ's kids.
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Re: The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Post #1150 by TGR » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:52 pm

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