The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:10 pm

Aye
10
63%
Naw
6
38%
don't give a shit. do what you want.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 16
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Post #101 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:11 pm

Speak any way you like, just don't fuckin' speak to me. : )
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Post #102 by PPJ » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:18 pm

The Bytown Boozer wrote:So you were just telling us to 'speak white'. Gotcha...


:sigh:
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Post #103 by RTWAP » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:54 pm

Mustafa wrote:Haha so your delusion about Louisiana turns out to actually be Quebec bashing, interesting. You should know that the proportion of French speaking Canadians is become smaller every years, services in French outside of Quebec is an everyday fight, the assimilation of French speakers outside of Québec is a problem, in Ontario more than the third of the French population speak English at home, that's a situation where the Next generation will be anglophones, considering almost 100% of the immigration is going to choose English for their children education (can't blame them) , those comunities are going to become a fraction in their regions while English will keep on growing, it has been like that for generations actually, just look at the French population in Canada 50 years ago compared to today. We'll look again in 30 years when the baby boomers will be gone. The only thing that has been slowing the process is bill 101.


There are 4 school boards in Ottawa. The fastest growing ones are the two French-language ones. To even get your kids into them they need to speak French at home. It's not immersion. It's French school.

My kids' school has a 4-year waiting list to get in. You have to sign your kids up shortly before their first birthday if you hope to have any chance of getting in. This isn't Vanier or Orleans. It's Nepean.

I realize that doesn't fit your narrative.
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Post #104 by PPJ » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:04 pm

RTWAP wrote:There are 4 school boards in Ottawa. The fastest growing ones are the two French-language ones. To even get your kids into them they need to speak French at home. It's not immersion. It's French school.

My kids' school has a 4-year waiting list to get in. You have to sign your kids up shortly before their first birthday if you hope to have any chance of getting in. This isn't Vanier or Orleans. It's Nepean.

I realize that doesn't fit your narrative.


Plus French speaking in Ontario actually speak proper French :danson:
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Post #105 by Fruity Pebbles » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:18 pm

RTWAP wrote:There are 4 school boards in Ottawa. The fastest growing ones are the two French-language ones. To even get your kids into them they need to speak French at home. It's not immersion. It's French school.

My kids' school has a 4-year waiting list to get in. You have to sign your kids up shortly before their first birthday if you hope to have any chance of getting in. This isn't Vanier or Orleans. It's Nepean.

I realize that doesn't fit your narrative.


To be fair you're talking about Ottawa.
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Post #106 by BlackRedGold » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:34 pm

Dot wrote:To be fair you're talking about Ottawa.


I.e. the land of milk and honey for francophones.
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Post #107 by AD » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:11 pm

The Bytown Boozer wrote:Oh c'mon, certainly things can't be that bad for that anglophone I rode to work today.


Stop speaking about NyQuil's wife that way. :colbert:



















Edit: sorry NyQuil, I don't know any other prominent broads who are married and live in Ottawa. This started as an attemp to make fun of Boozer's womanizing and general manwhorishness and ended up as an insult to your lovely wife. For that I apologize.
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Post #108 by Mufasa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:27 pm

RTWAP wrote:There are 4 school boards in Ottawa. The fastest growing ones are the two French-language ones. To even get your kids into them they need to speak French at home. It's not immersion. It's French school.

My kids' school has a 4-year waiting list to get in. You have to sign your kids up shortly before their first birthday if you hope to have any chance of getting in. This isn't Vanier or Orleans. It's Nepean.

I realize that doesn't fit your narrative.


First that's Ottawa, right next to Quebec, secondo less than 60% of Francophones speak french at home in Ontario, that's a statistical fact, also the french population of Ontario is growing less quickly than the english population, it has been like that for over a century now, right now the growing speed is about half of the english growing speed, and that's not including the high rates of assimilation for each generation. So i don't see how your lil' story doesn't fit my narrative.

But yeah this story of the French population doing great in Canada has been told for quite a while now, i'd take time to look at the demographics since the confederation, or even from 30 years ago when i was born, and tell me that everything is mighty fine. That, my friend, doesn't fit your narrative.
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Post #109 by Mufasa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:31 pm

French Canadians from outside of Quebec are born for an even plus petit pain, au moin nous autre on a un May West pis une liqueur brune pour aller avec.
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Beaker wrote:I publiclay apologies to Mumu.
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Post #110 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:28 am

The Bytown Boozer wrote:LOL DEMPSO DOESN'T GET CANADA


Nobody, but nobody is whiter than a white from Minnesota.
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Post #111 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:32 am

dempsey_k wrote:Wait, some French in Canada consider themselves non-white?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah


Image
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Post #112 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:38 am

embracedbias wrote:I just don't understand you mustafa



He's trying to present a rather simple fact, should be almost recognized as truth, and people keep trying to confront that with obscure arguments about some anecdotal proof about x or y community.

The simple fact Mu is stating is this: absent active protection, there will be less francophones in North America.

Now he proposes that protection means having an independant gov't with full powers. That's clearly debatable. But saying that Ottawa French schools are thriving and that there is a cute franco conference in Baton Rouge really doesn't mean much.
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Post #113 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:35 am

AD is now the official translator of all things Mumu.
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Post #114 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:36 am

As for the original question, Aye. The whole fucking commonwealth should say fuck off to the Queen IMO.
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Post #115 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:02 am

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:AD is now the official translator of all things Mumu.


I understand my people.
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Post #116 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:06 am

AD wrote:He's trying to present a rather simple fact, should be almost recognized as truth, and people keep trying to confront that with obscure arguments about some anecdotal proof about x or y community.

The simple fact Mu is stating is this: absent active protection, there will be less francophones in North America.

Now he proposes that protection means having an independant gov't with full powers. That's clearly debatable. But saying that Ottawa French schools are thriving and that there is a cute franco conference in Baton Rouge really doesn't mean much.


The point is that full protection doesn't work anyway, so it's time to look at other community-based models for supporting second languages employed in Canada and elsewhere.

I just don't buy this Quebec is the sole guardian of the French language in Canada bullshit.

There are plenty of folks actively working towards preservation of the French language without resorting to xenophobia or outright racism.

Mustafa wrote:i'd take time to look at the demographics since the confederation, or even from 30 years ago when i was born, and tell me that everything is mighty fine


I'm loving this nostalgia for Lower Canada.

Clearly it's time to bring back the coureurs des bois and set things right.
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Post #117 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:49 am

NyQuil wrote:The point is that full protection doesn't work anyway, so it's time to look at other community-based models for supporting second languages employed in Canada and elsewhere.


Disagree. It has worked very well in Quebec. Its also largely why support for independance is low. (i.e, we're realizing we can stay in Canada and remain different).

NyQuil wrote:I just don't buy this Quebec is the sole guardian of the French language in Canada bullshit.


I don't think anybody is saying that. If anything, Mums would want all francophone communities to be guardians of the French language.

NyQuil wrote:There are plenty of folks actively working towards preservation of the French language without resorting to xenophobia or outright racism.


?
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Post #118 by IcE ColD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am

embracedbias wrote:No, I meant that je ne pas comprenhende les francais dans le poste


That's totally normal, I think you either need to know some Québécois or at least hear some talk regularly to get what was said in that sentence.
This whole idea that we are even important is a fucking illusion. We’re just an accident left to our own devices.

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Post #119 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:57 am

embracedbias wrote:No, I meant that je ne pas comprenhende les francais dans le poste


:gary:
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Post #120 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:20 am

AD wrote:Disagree. It has worked very well in Quebec. Its also largely why support for independance is low. (i.e, we're realizing we can stay in Canada and remain different).


Ostie, we can cash checks from Alberta and still speak french! Merveilleux!
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Post #121 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:27 am

Big#D wrote:if only trudeau had gone all martial law on the official languages act and forced the provinces to make french immersion mandatory for all schools (english immersion in quebec obv), we'd have a country of fully bilingual people and people would stop bitching about french being a dying language.


Reminds me of a friend of mine who works for the Feds. He applied for an executive position in Alberta and was screened out because he couldn't speak French. Apparantly that community doesn't have a single French speaker. There is zero demand for french speaking services. What a country we live in :danson:
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Post #122 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:28 am

AD wrote:He's trying to present a rather simple fact, should be almost recognized as truth, and people keep trying to confront that with obscure arguments about some anecdotal proof about x or y community.

The simple fact Mu is stating is this: absent active protection, there will be less francophones in North America.

Now he proposes that protection means having an independant gov't with full powers. That's clearly debatable. But saying that Ottawa French schools are thriving and that there is a cute franco conference in Baton Rouge really doesn't mean much.


He's also making the assumption that Francophones are for some reason more valuable than Allophones or Anglos.
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Post #123 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:36 am

Craig wrote:He's also making the assumption that Francophones are for some reason more valuable than Allophones or Anglos.


He's crazy.

A frenchman is worth 0.75 anglos and 1.2 allos.

(Seriously, how does he make that assumption? The argument is about preserving)
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Post #124 by Mufasa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:41 am

Craig wrote:He's also making the assumption that Francophones are for some reason more valuable than Allophones or Anglos.


Well except for broads who are at least worth a cadian.

































But how did I make that assumption? Appart from my history of trolling?
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Post #125 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:47 am

Dog wrote:He's crazy.

A frenchman is worth 0.75 anglos and 1.2 allos.

(Seriously, how does he make that assumption? The argument is about preserving)


Surely his premise is that they're worth preserving?
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Post #126 by Mufasa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:53 am

Craig wrote:Surely his premise is that they're worth preserving?


Not really, I just wanted to expose NyQuil narrative, and the usual bilingual Canada hypocrisy.

The real fight would be to preserve Quebec demographic proportions. As long as Québec' demographics stay the way they are il n'y a pas péril en la demeure.

We could achieve indépendance in 50 years for all I care.
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Post #127 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:08 am

Mustafa wrote:Not really, I just wanted to expose NyQuil narrative, and the usual bilingual Canada hypocrisy.

The real fight would be to preserve Quebec demographic proportions. As long as Québec' demographics stay the way they are il n'y a pas péril en la demeure.

We could achieve indépendance in 50 years for all I care.


In the current federal system, I don't see why Quebec's relative weight matters. Unless you worry about francophone foreign policy and the like. We've gone through this a million times, but Quebec has all the powers to protect the french language and its culture as is (it falls within it's provincial powers).
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Post #128 by Mufasa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:25 am

Dog wrote:In the current federal system, I don't see why Quebec's relative weight matters. Unless you worry about francophone foreign policy and the like. We've gone through this a million times, but Quebec has all the powers to protect the french language and its culture as is (it falls within it's provincial powers).


:why:
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Post #129 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:28 am

Dog wrote:In the current federal system, I don't see why Quebec's relative weight matters. Unless you worry about francophone foreign policy and the like. We've gone through this a million times, but Quebec has all the powers to protect the french language and its culture as is (it falls within it's provincial powers).


But what is Quebec doing to protect the French language in Penetanguishene?
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Post #130 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:32 am

Craig wrote:He's also making the assumption that Francophones are for some reason more valuable than Allophones or Anglos.


How so?
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Post #131 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:38 am

AD wrote:Disagree. It has worked very well in Quebec. Its also largely why support for independance is low. (i.e, we're realizing we can stay in Canada and remain different).


I think some were also recognizing that identity politics were being misused by the leading separatist party as a distraction from issues such as the economy and the sustainability of social services.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-young-sovereignists-are-rethinking-the-pqs-french-obsession/

AD wrote:I don't think anybody is saying that. If anything, Mums would want all francophone communities to be guardians of the French language.


It's hard to imagine the language dying out when the number of speakers keeps increasing. Between 1981 and 2011 (the 30 year window that Mumu speaks of), the population whose mother tongue is French grew 16%. The population with French as the language spoken most often at home or as first official language spoken increased by 17.6% and 21.3%, respectively.

Languages in danger of extinction are not actively gaining speakers.

I think the threat has been overblown. The proportional weight may change, but the language is not going to die.

As it is, I'm not averse to measures to protect the language, however, I see a slippery slope towards outright endorsement of a particular ethnic group over another.

AD wrote:?


When the self-appointed protector party of the French language in Quebec decides to endorse Bernard Drainville's vision of Quebec values, I start to wonder.

Mustafa wrote:The real fight would be to preserve Quebec demographic proportions. As long as Québec' demographics stay the way they are il n'y a pas péril en la demeure.


Everyone's demographics are changing. Welcome to reality.

Multiculturalism or melting pot - you're not going to be able to freeze a culture in stasis with Western birthrates.

That goes for every part of Canada, not just Quebec.

I'm certainly beginning to understand the Mumu narrative which is essentially that he wants to build a time machine and live in the 1970s.
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Post #132 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:41 am

AD wrote:How so?


I'm assuming the reason to protect your demographic is because you value it over the alternatives you're afraid of it turning into.
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Post #133 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:46 am

Was maclean's cited in a Quebec discussion?








That's it, I want out.
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Post #134 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:47 am

Craig wrote:I'm assuming the reason to protect your demographic is because you value it over the alternatives you're afraid of it turning into.


There's that imagination. :busky:
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Post #135 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:47 am

Dog wrote:As maclean's cited in a Quebec discussion?

That's it, I want out.


Take it up with Jason Brochu-Valcourt.
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Post #136 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:56 am

Dog wrote:Was maclean's cited in a Quebec discussion?








That's it, I want out.


Jesus christ.

On veut un pays! On veut un pays!
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Post #137 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:01 pm

AD wrote:Jesus christ.

On veut un pays! On veut un pays!


Maclean's repetitively announcing that separation is dead is probably the best thing for the cause.

It's like the US endorsing Mahmoud Abbas.

"No, please don't."

"You're our guy!"

"Damn it."

If the Québécois are willing to vote for NDPers they've never heard of, out of spite I guess, anything is possible.
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Post #138 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:16 pm

Big#D wrote:A once venerable institution that has long outlived its usefulness and is humourous in the extent to which they no longer have a clue about their field of "expertise".


AD?
































[SIZE="1"]*That's for the wife comment. An anglophone never forgets and never forgives.[/size]
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Post #139 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:26 pm

Lord Chezz wrote:So if Mr. Executive has a group that delivers national services to the public or provices services in a community where there is an instance of francophone service more than 5% of the time, he must be bilingual to be able to manage grievances (grievors are able to do so in the language of their choice), provide performance reviews (employees can do so in the language of choice) and provide strategic advice to clients (external/internal) or stakeholders in the language of their choice.


This is why people are always away on French training.

It is career limiting in the public service to not reach a certain standard in French and English.

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